Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

I think you really want me to be upset. I'm really not. I predicted this just like I'm predicting you still weeping after pale skin void elves.

And people can ask as much as they want, but asking for something does not mean you get it.

Calling a discussion "idiotic" shows the shade you have towards the topic, I don't need to 'really want' it as it's plain to see.

Where's my 'weeping'? I've been ecstatic since the news because to me getting character customization options are harder than allowing new class/race combos. Something I can wait for.

And you're right about the last bit, but never asking is a guaranteed way to never get it. At least with asking for it, there's the possibility of it happening. Just as we've seen with getting High Elves.

[Evilfish]

Calling a discussion "idiotic" shows the shade you have towards the topic, I don't need to 'really want' it as it's plain to see.

Where's my 'weeping'? I've been ecstatic since the news because to me getting character customization options are harder than allowing new class/race combos. Something I can wait for.

And you're right about the last bit, but never asking is a guaranteed way to never get it. At least with asking for it, there's the possibility of it happening. Just as we've seen with getting High Elves.

It is idiotic. You want blue belfs. You won't get them when you have void elves, now with pale skin and blue eyes, belfs now have blue eyes. Asking for a total cloning of the belf race is, very much, idiotic. The velf costumization options testify to that fact.

And if you really are extatic, good for you. Hope it lasts. But I'll happly remind you if you come back here to cry that velfs are not quite what you asked for because at the end of the day they are void elves, not high elves and blood evles will remain the high elves. Like I said, ask as much as you want. Knock yourselves out, but don't expect to get what you ask for and don't expect not to be called out on it.

[Ielenia]

It is idiotic. You want blue belfs.

False. "Idiotic" is your misrepresentation. We want high elves. The high elves that have been in the Alliance since WoW's inception. The high elves who have been expelled from Silvermoon. The high elves that consider the blood elves their enemies. The Silver Covenant elves. The Allerian Stronghold elves.

Not blood elves.

[Lorca]

False. "Idiotic" is your misrepresentation. We want high elves. The high elves that have been in the Alliance since WoW's inception. The high elves who have been expelled from Silvermoon. The high elves that consider the blood elves their enemies. The Silver Covenant elves. The Allerian Stronghold elves.

Not blood elves.

In fact, it is pretty much "idiotic" -in the original sense and meaning of the word- as you and many others are only caring about your private and egocentric desires in this subject... wanting something that will take -or copy- a big part of the uniqueness of one of the Horde core races (the most played, in fact). And the whole problem is mainly, as it's been proved in this threat this last weeks, about wanting the looks of said race. So, looking at the big picture, having most of the characteristics of the Blood Elves copied on another races, will not only make one of the most played races less unique, but also encourage people to ask for other races to lose their uniqueness to other races -like with the Nightborne-Night Elf thing-, with the now possible outcome of making all of them less singular and very similar, watering down the differences between different races.

[Sharby]

In fact, it is pretty much "idiotic" -in the original sense and meaning of the word- as you and many others are only caring about your private and egocentric desires in this subject... wanting something that will take -or copy- a big part of the uniqueness of one of the Horde core races (the most played, in fact). And the whole problem is mainly, as it's been proved in this threat this last weeks, about wanting the looks of said race. So, looking at the big picture, having most of the characteristics of the Blood Elves copied on another races, will not only make one of the most played races less unique, but also encourage people to ask for other races to lose their uniqueness to other races -like with the Nightborne-Night Elf thing-, with the now possible outcome of making all of them less singular and very similar, watering down the differences between different races.

Literally who cares? What does it take away from the game lmao.

These changes have no lore consequence, no gameplay consequence, nothing. Its just cosmetic, I'd say its far more idiotic to treat these changes as if they harm the game in a significant manner.



And if people ask for similar treatment for other races that's not the fault of these new options, its the fault of the 2-faction system being dumb and outdated and its Blizzard's fault for acting like races are a hivemind that would entirely devote themselves to a single faction despite them putting multiple examples that contradict this.


If anything if you guys want races to be unique you should be pushing towards no-factions, because then we wouldn't need any of these new additions and compromises to begin with.

[Evilfish]

False. "Idiotic" is your misrepresentation. We want high elves. The high elves that have been in the Alliance since WoW's inception. The high elves who have been expelled from Silvermoon. The high elves that consider the blood elves their enemies. The Silver Covenant elves. The Allerian Stronghold elves.

Not blood elves.

Yea, it is. And so is your statement, obviously. No misinterpretation. The High Elves are the Blood Evles in everything but in name that's not debatable, it's a fact. Asking for a clone of that is idiotic in more ways than one. Now that void evles have been given a pale skin, demands for high elves are more absurd than ever before.

You can't say that Blizzard ignored you. But they didn't give in to your demands either. Enjoy velfs, or don't. But I'm quite certain Velfs are as far as you'll go and honestly by now every rational person would agree that you got enough with the addion of Velfs, even if they made no sense and the Helf cosmetic features.

[Lorca]

Literally who cares? What does it take away from the game lmao.

These changes have no lore consequence, no gameplay consequence, nothing. Its just cosmetic, I'd say its far more idiotic to treat these changes as if they harm the game in a significant manner.



And if people ask for similar treatment for other races that's not the fault of these new options, its the fault of the 2-faction system being dumb and outdated and its Blizzard's fault for acting like races are a hivemind that would entirely devote themselves to a single faction despite them putting multiple examples that contradict this.


If anything if you guys want races to be unique you should be pushing towards no-factions, because then we wouldn't need any of these new additions and compromises to begin with.

I am talking from an aesthetical point of view, mainly. I thought I made clear that it was a "looks" problem in my post. Sure, it doesn't have gameplay consequences. But, on the other hand, lore-wise, I think it does. But like... who cares about lore these days but some of the freaks who post here (me included)?

I play both factions, and believe me I'd rather had in Shadowlands the factions removed, after the direction they took with the story in BfA, or at least to be given the chance to be neutral and interact with the opposite faction. From a lore pov, the only race having in general terms "conflicts" with everyone are the Forsaken... and gameplay-wise it could work perfectly. So yeah, I am pro faction-removal.

[Sharby]

I am talking from an aesthetical point of view, mainly. I thought I made clear that it was a "looks" problem in my post. Sure, it doesn't have gameplay consequences. But, on the other hand, lore-wise, I think it does. But like... who cares about lore these days but some of the freaks who post here (me included)?

I play both factions, and believe me I'd rather had in Shadowlands the factions removed, after the direction they took with the story in BfA, or at least to be given the chance to be neutral and interact with the opposite faction. From a lore pov, the only race having in general terms "conflicts" with everyone are the Forsaken... and gameplay-wise it could work perfectly. So yeah, I am pro faction-removal.

What are the lore issues that would arise? High Elves already are on the Alliance, Alleria already has pink-skin despite being a velf. So putting in pink velves as important npcs sets no precedent.


Furthermore even from an aesthetic al pov its not like Velves are becoming a carbon-copy, there are still differences that separate the two, and there will continue to be even if they added blonde hair for Velves. They aren't even removing options from either, its just sharing. So no one loses anything.


You could argue a loss of uniqueness but its a very weak con compared to the massive pros that are had from this. Blood elf players will continue to play Blood Elves, and now people who enjoy Alliance high elves can enjoy them on the Alliance without feeling like they have to play Horde.

Its a win.

[DeicideUH]

What are the lore issues that would arise? High Elves already are on the Alliance, Alleria already has pink-skin despite being a velf. So putting in pink velves as important npcs sets no precedent.


Furthermore even from an aesthetic al pov its not like Velves are becoming a carbon-copy, there are still differences that separate the two, and there will continue to be even if they added blonde hair for Velves. They aren't even removing options from either, its just sharing. So no one loses anything.


You could argue a loss of uniqueness but its a very weak con compared to the massive pros that are had from this. Blood elf players will continue to play Blood Elves, and now people who enjoy Alliance high elves can enjoy them on the Alliance without feeling like they have to play Horde.

Its a win.

Yep, every word you just said is right!

[Lorca]

What are the lore issues that would arise? High Elves already are on the Alliance, Alleria already has pink-skin despite being a velf. So putting in pink velves as important npcs sets no precedent.

From a lore point of view, we don't really know now what a Void Elf is; before they got the option to get the fair skin, it was clear that they were somehow corrupted by the void and thus they had the blue-ish skins. But now, we don't know what's the difference between them and a Blood Elf or a High Elf if they are fair skinned. Are they just High Elves, Blood Elves that control the void and therefore have different racials, as something that anyone can learn, even, let's say, a Gnome? Or are they mutated -genetically altered- High Elves or Blood Elves but less affected by the void than the ones with blue-ish skins? If not, what's the difference between a purple skinned one and a fair skinned one? How do they become a Void Elf and what makes them a Void Elf and not a Blood Elf or a High Elf? Alleria's process to become a "Void Elf" -does she ever call that herself?- is different to the one the playable Void Elves suffer, basically because they don't absorb any Naaru.

Furthermore even from an aesthetic al pov its not like Velves are becoming a carbon-copy, there are still differences that separate the two, and there will continue to be even if they added blonde hair for Velves. They aren't even removing options from either, its just sharing. So no one loses anything.

You could argue a loss of uniqueness but its a very weak con compared to the massive pros that are had from this. Blood elf players will continue to play Blood Elves, and now people who enjoy Alliance high elves can enjoy them on the Alliance without feeling like they have to play Horde.

I mean, if they just give all the customization options that Blood Elves have to the Void Elves -and that's something that a lot of people here is asking for- then it would be unfair to the Blood Elves, as they will lose their uniqueness and receive nothing from the Void Elves. In any case, we still don't know what Void Elves will get in the end -apart from the fair skin tones and the eye color- so this is all speculation. If they decided to give blonde hair to the Void Elves, then it would have been easier to make "Alliance High Elves" an allied race and not Void Elves. Imho, they shouldn't get blonde hair options, and keep the blue, purple, black, grey and white. Because if not, they'll be Blood Elves but with more customization options, which will be unfair first for the Blood Elves and second for the rest of the races.

[Ielenia]

Yea, it is. And so is your statement, obviously. No misinterpretation. The High Elves are the Blood Evles in everything but in name that's not debatable, it's a fact.

Once again, you are wrong. They have different allegiances. They had different ways to deal with the magic withdrawal when the Sunwell was corrupted. Their culture can be argued to have become differentiated due to their status as exiles.

[Sharby]

From a lore point of view, we don't really know now what a Void Elf is; before they got the option to get the fair skin, it was clear that they were somehow corrupted by the void and thus they had the blue-ish skins. But now, we don't know what's the difference between them and a Blood Elf or a High Elf if they are fair skinned. Are they just High Elves, Blood Elves that control the void and therefore have different racials, as something that anyone can learn, even, let's say, a Gnome? Or are they mutated -genetically altered- High Elves or Blood Elves but less affected by the void than the ones with blue-ish skins? If not, what's the difference between a purple skinned one and a fair skinned one? How do they become a Void Elf and what makes them a Void Elf and not a Blood Elf or a High Elf? Alleria's process to become a "Void Elf" -does she ever call that herself?- is different to the one the playable Void Elves suffer, basically because they don't absorb any Naaru.



I mean, if they just give all the customization options that Blood Elves have to the Void Elves -and that's something that a lot of people here is asking for- then it would be unfair to the Blood Elves, as they will lose their uniqueness and receive nothing from the Void Elves. In any case, we still don't know what Void Elves will get in the end -apart from the fair skin tones and the eye color- so this is all speculation. If they decided to give blonde hair to the Void Elves, then it would have been easier to make "Alliance High Elves" an allied race and not Void Elves. Imho, they shouldn't get blonde hair options, and keep the blue, purple, black, grey and white. Because if not, they'll be Blood Elves but with more customization options, which will be unfair first for the Blood Elves and second for the rest of the races.

Felt like addressing the bolded specifically.


For your first point we know that when Alleria uses her void powers she becomes all spooky, Velves have the same exact thing with their entropic embrace racial, in fact Blizzard went out of their way to make their racial more closely resemble Alleria's, which proves that its Blizzard's intent that Alleria represents Void Elves in their entirety.


Not all Elves are created equal, so it makes sense that some would retain their human skin tones and others wouldn't I don't really feel as though its a significant issue.

As for your second point, I've been keeping up with this thread for awhile and I don't see most people asking for Velves to be a carbon copy. Asking for actual variety in hairstyles and facial hair doesn't really count considering its something every race should have. It just happens to line up with Belves because they have the same model.

If there are people asking for extreme stuff which I'm sure there are, it doesn't really discredit the pro-helf group as a whole. I like Helves and I want Blood Elves to be deleted and the Horde to be disbanded, but you wouldn't say that Helf players are asking for either of those would you? Same applies here.

[Lorca]

Once again, you are wrong. They have different allegiances. They had different ways to deal with the magic withdrawal when the Sunwell was corrupted. Their culture can be argued to have become differentiated due to their status as exiles.

So... if the differences are their allegiances and their "culture" -whatever it is understood for that nowadays-... how do you call the Pandaren? Just Pandaren or do you really differentiate them and call them Huojin or Tushui? Be honest. I bet most of the people here don't even know those names.

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Felt like addressing the bolded specifically.
For your first point we know that when Alleria uses her void powers she becomes all spooky, Velves have the same exact thing with their entropic embrace racial, in fact Blizzard went out of their way to make their racial more closely resemble Alleria's, which proves that its Blizzard's intent that Alleria represents Void Elves in their entirety.

Not all Elves are created equal, so it makes sense that some would retain their human skin tones and others wouldn't I don't really feel as though its a significant issue.

Still, I'd like to know what makes a Void Elf a Void Elf, and what makes them a different race. I don't think it is a complex question. You obviously don't have the answer, but that's Blizzard's job to do, sure, and they seem to be changing it without explaining it so far.

As for your second point, I've been keeping up with this thread for awhile and I don't see most people asking for Velves to be a carbon copy. Asking for actual variety in hairstyles and facial hair doesn't really count considering its something every race should have. It just happens to line up with Belves because they have the same model.

If there are people asking for extreme stuff which I'm sure there are, it doesn't really discredit the pro-helf group as a whole. I like Helves and I want Blood Elves to be deleted and the Horde to be disbanded, but you wouldn't say that Helf players are asking for either of those would you? Same applies here.

Come on, if you have followed this threat, which I know you did as I followed it too, you'd know there's a lot of people taking this like a "fight" and wanting all the Blood Elves customization options to be given to the Void Elves just for the sake of seeing Blood Elf fans or Horde fans getting "mad". I didn't say that every High Elf fan wants that, but there are quite a lot of people here and you know there are. If Void Elves and Blood Elves have different hairstyles, facial hair and jewelry, that's fair even if they get the fair skin. But getting all the Blood Elves customization or their characteristic blonde hair would be unfair.

[Sharby]

So... if the differences are their allegiances and their "culture" -whatever it is understood for that nowadays-... how do you call the Pandaren? Just Pandaren or do you really differentiate them and call them Huojin or Tushui? Be honest. I bet most of the people here don't even know those names.

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Still, I'd like to know what makes a Void Elf a Void Elf, and what makes them a different race. I don't think it is a complex question. You obviously don't have the answer, but that's Blizzard's job to do, sure, and they seem to be changing it without explaining it so far.




Come on, if you have followed this threat, which I know you did as I followed it too, you'd know there's a lot of people taking this like a "fight" and wanting all the Blood Elves customization options to be given to the Void Elves just for the sake of seeing Blood Elf fans or Horde fans getting "mad". I didn't say that every High Elf fan wants that, but there are quite a lot of people here and you know there are. If Void Elves and Blood Elves have different hairstyles, facial hair and jewelry, that's fair even if they get the fair skin. But getting all the Blood Elves customization or their characteristic blonde hair would be unfair.

Well, taken from the Wiki:

Void elves (or ren'dorei, "children of the Void" in Thalassian)[1] are a race of Void-infused elves affiliated with the Alliance. Their origins lie with a group of blood elves led by Magister Umbric who were exiled from Silvermoon City because of their research into the Void. They were transformed by void ethereals but rescued by Alleria Windrunner, who had gained mastery of the Void herself on Argus. Permanently transformed by the process, they pledged their loyalty to her and the Alliance and established themselves as the ren'dorei.

As we can see, there already is a definition as to what a Velf is, and note how it doesn't say a race of void-infused Blood Elves, but instead suggests all Thalassian elves can be velves, so these new human tones don't affect that. Nor is the lore changed because High Elves can be Velves.

Sure realistically other races can be void-infused, but that isn't a relevant counter-point because there are plenty of unquestioned instances of this type of thing existing, why can humans become Worgen but gnomes can't? Why can Lightforged be Death Knights? Etc etc.

At some point you just have to accept what Blizzard's intent is with their content and move on, it doesn't need to be scrutinized to death because otherwise it would be real impractical for Blizzard to try and keep up.



And there are plenty of people on the opposite end that try and rain on people's parade just because they don't like Alliance players. But it doesn't matter because its not reflective of any majority, nor does it contribute anything to intelligent discussion to try and bring up (in my opinion.)

Blonde hair isn't really characteristic to Belves imo, I consider their green eyes to be most characteristic. Which Velves aren't getting. So there's no problem there for me. We already know that Allied races are severely limited as far as customization goes, so there's nothing unreasonable about wanting Velves to get their fair share of options. And like I said the only reason Belves are even included in that request is because they share the same model. I doubt Velf or Helf fans would care about Belves if they had differing models.

[FossilFree]

Come on, if you have followed this threat, which I know you did as I followed it too, you'd know there's a lot of people taking this like a "fight" and wanting all the Blood Elves customization options to be given to the Void Elves just for the sake of seeing Blood Elf fans or Horde fans getting "mad". I didn't say that every High Elf fan wants that, but there are quite a lot of people here and you know there are. If Void Elves and Blood Elves have different hairstyles, facial hair and jewelry, that's fair even if they get the fair skin. But getting all the Blood Elves customization or their characteristic blonde hair would be unfair.

Isn't that why the antis were busy pushing for blue eyes on Blood Elves though? They took it as a "fight" and told themselves that if blue went to BE that would make Alliance HE impossible. They never really cared about the blue eyes at all though, it was all disingenuous to win their "fight" which is why when given the blue eyes they complained that they got nothing in return for Void Elves getting HE skins.

Blizzard decided to just compromise and give HE to both, which means the blue eye request totally backfired in ironic karmic fashion.

[Ielenia]

In fact, it is pretty much "idiotic" -in the original sense and meaning of the word- as you and many others are only caring about your private and egocentric desires in this subject... wanting something that will take -or copy- a big part of the uniqueness of one of the Horde core races (the most played, in fact). And the whole problem is mainly, as it's been proved in this threat this last weeks, about wanting the looks of said race. So, looking at the big picture, having most of the characteristics of the Blood Elves copied on another races, will not only make one of the most played races less unique, but also encourage people to ask for other races to lose their uniqueness to other races -like with the Nightborne-Night Elf thing-, with the now possible outcome of making all of them less singular and very similar, watering down the differences between different races.

That ship has sailed a long time ago, with the inclusion of void elves and nightborne.

And funny how you don't feel hypocritical in the slightest by calling the high-elf supporters "egocentric", when the root of your complains stem from very much "egocentric desires": the "uniqueness" argument.

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You could argue a loss of uniqueness but its a very weak con compared to the massive pros that are had from this. Blood elf players will continue to play Blood Elves, and now people who enjoy Alliance high elves can enjoy them on the Alliance without feeling like they have to play Horde.

Its a win.

Not to mention, the "uniqueness" argument is pretty much, in his own words, an "egocentric desire".

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So... if the differences are their allegiances and their "culture" -whatever it is understood for that nowadays-... how do you call the Pandaren? Just Pandaren or do you really differentiate them and call them Huojin or Tushui? Be honest. I bet most of the people here don't even know those names.

Unlike the blood elves, I don't think either pandaren group has decided to call themselves a different name, now have they?

[Lorca]

That ship has sailed a long time ago, with the inclusion of void elves and nightborne.

And funny how you don't feel hypocritical in the slightest by calling the high-elf supporters "egocentric", when the root of your complains stem from very much "egocentric desires": the "uniqueness" argument.

Haha, you are misinterpreting my words lad. When did I call the "high-elf supporters "egocentric""? Point me the post where I said EXACTLY that. If you can't, you are a liar. I pointed that some of you are behaving in an idiotic way, thus in an egocentric way -not just being egoistic, which is perfectly natural-.

I am in the middle of this "fight" of yours, as I explained. I bet on fairness. I think both groups deserve being listened. I don't even play Blood Elves or Void Elves. It is good that people who wanted to play a fair skinned elves in the Alliance can now play them, but I can empathize and understand that the people that play Blood Elves feel like they're are receiving the short end of the stick in this case, because they are losing part the identity of their race, and even more if Void Elves get the blonde hair and all the customization options of the Blood Elves, which some of you are asking for in some kind of "revenge" crusade just to see the "anti high-elf" people get mad. You probably thinking that I am an "anti-helfer", and I can tell you I am not.

It is pretty easy: you got different races in this game; why are they different? Easy and trivial answer, right? Because of their differences. If you take those characteristics that make those races different and give them to other races, they lose their uniqueness. They become the same. What's the point in having different races then? Also, nothing about being egocentric here. It's just an opinion based on facts and logical thinking. I know Void Elves and Blood Elves share their model, but they used to look at least different. As Nightborne and Night Elves do, with the difference that they don't look that much like each other.

Unlike the blood elves, I don't think either pandaren group has decided to call themselves a different name, now have they?

Well, yes, they do? Huojin Pandaren and Tushui Pandaren, just as the High Elves and the Blood Elves. Same race, different culture, different name made by differentiated affix.

[Ielenia]

Haha, you are misinterpreting my words lad. When did I call the "high-elf supporters "egocentric""? Point me the post where I said EXACTLY that. If you can't, you are a liar. I pointed that some of you are behaving in an idiotic way, thus in an egocentric way -not just being egoistic, which is perfectly natural-.

Why should I have to point you out to the post, when you do it again, right there? By calling the way they behave "egocentric", you're calling them "egocentric".

Well, yes, they do? Huojin Pandaren and Tushui Pandaren, just as the High Elves and the Blood Elves.

Not the same thing. Their race is still called pandaren. They're just different factions. Just like Stormwind Humans and Gilneas humans. Both are still humans and call themselves humans. But the blood elves rebranded their race as "blood elves". The current high elves simply reject that notion and decided to retain the name "high elf".

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I love that concept!

I'd also like to see a few human hairstyles and colors shared with Void Elves both for variety and to add options for a more High Elf aesthetic:

I like these options; overall, I like the idea of Void Elves -if they have more human like hair colors- having less shiny, more muted tones (personally I'd just change the grey for white, since two VE colors are already pretty white)

As for the hairstyles, also agree: ALL allied races need more hairstyles, and I DO think a quick way to bring them up to snuff is to add hairstyles of a parent race. With VE and NB this becomes an issue of faction identity to a degree, but that could be solved by using analogues of those cultures within the same faction; NB get Blood Elven hairstyles and VE get Human Hairstyles; They are arguably the closest culture wise for each, kinda obvious for NB/BE, and for VE/Human you can make the argument for it if we get the explanation that a lot of new VE's come from HE origin, and as we already know, HE's have been pointed out as being assimilated into the alliance.

[Kyriani]

Yea, High Elves having assimilated into human society and now potentially joining the Ren'dorei is why I went with Human hairstyles, along with just the general aesthetic appeal.

I do wish Void Elves had a really stark white hair option. The two they have isn't really white at all... they are nearly identical grey tones. It's easier to tell that with the new skin tone options.