Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Kyriani]

Yea, High Elves having assimilated into human society and now potentially joining the Ren'dorei is why I went with Human hairstyles, along with just the general aesthetic appeal.

I do wish Void Elves had a really stark white hair option. The two they have isn't really white at all... they are nearly identical grey tones. It's easier to tell that with the new skin tone options.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yea, High Elves having assimilated into human society and now potentially joining the Ren'dorei is why I went with Human hairstyles, along with just the general aesthetic appeal.

I do wish Void Elves had a really stark white hair option. The two they have isn't really white at all... they are nearly identical grey tones. It's easier to tell that with the new skin tone options.

I think that might be the thing I dislike more about VE's: in both hair and skin options, 2-3 are entirely superflous. The illusion of more options indeed. Void Elves are the only race not to have white hair, which is just such a baffling choice when:

-Every other non-furry race has white hair.

-The first Void Elf has white hair.

There are just so many baffling design choices with Void Elves, but what will continue to be the weirdest one that neither on her regular, nor fully void forms, you can look like the original Void Elf. It's so palpable they wanted to make VE's "different" from BE's, but they did it so on the laziest way possible. And yeh, LFD also fall into that.

We might not get new hair colors or hairstyles soon, but I do believe we will get them when the rest of the AR's get updated, which sadly could take a LONG ASS time (just look at Worgen and Goblin models and how long it took to update them compared to the rest :/)

[Villager720]

Blizzard have also never said "No you're not getting High Elves!" despite that one dude stating so

Besides if you wanna be pedantic about it, that's on you. The majority of people understand these are High Elves

"LINKS"

Again, a person can go ahead and be pedantic about it, but the majority of the playerbase understands these customizations are High Elves.

Just like slapping tattoos onto the Bronzebeard Dwarves are letting people play Wildhammer Dwarves.

So just to be clear : Blizzard referred to this as customization for void elves, but because they also didn't say they weren't high elves, while directly calling them void elves, that means your statement is somehow not nonfactual? OOOOk.

And also, how is calling you out for making false claims about what people said being pedantic?
Blizzard did not say and has never said "you're getting High Elves!". You said they did. I'm noting you're stating falsehoods.
"Pedantic".

Be excited for your new customizations. But don't say false things and call people pedantic when they note it.
Also, maybe don't defend outright falsehoods by saying "but the opposite of what I claimed also wasn't stated".

[Kyriani]

I think that might be the thing I dislike more about VE's: in both hair and skin options, 2-3 are entirely superflous. The illusion of more options indeed. Void Elves are the only race not to have white hair, which is just such a baffling choice when:

-Every other non-furry race has white hair.

-The first Void Elf has white hair.

There are just so many baffling design choices with Void Elves, but what will continue to be the weirdest one that neither on her regular, nor fully void forms, you can look like the original Void Elf. It's so palpable they wanted to make VE's "different" from BE's, but they did it so on the laziest way possible. And yeh, LFD also fall into that.

We might not get new hair colors or hairstyles soon, but I do believe we will get them when the rest of the AR's get updated, which sadly could take a LONG ASS time (just look at Worgen and Goblin models and how long it took to update them compared to the rest :/)

I'm hopeful that even if we don't get any new hairstyles or colors along with the new skin options, that allied races won't have to wait nearly as long as Worgen and Goblins did for additional options. I'd even go so far as to say I'd expect to see allied races that can reasonably use their parent race's new options get access to those options either at launch or in 9.1 or 9.2 the latest.

Nightborne need a lot of love though, and unfortunately also need more work than just inheriting options from Night Elves. Though I think inheriting some, if not all, Night Elf skin options is a possibility for them.

But yea, the 4 skin tones that look virtually the same and 2 different hair colors have a nearly identical color do artificially inflate how many options really exist.


I mean... really? These are supposed to be 4 different options? The differences are so minuscule as to be laughable.

[Lorca]

Well, taken from the Wiki:

Void elves (or ren'dorei, "children of the Void" in Thalassian)[1] are a race of Void-infused elves affiliated with the Alliance. Their origins lie with a group of blood elves led by Magister Umbric who were exiled from Silvermoon City because of their research into the Void. They were transformed by void ethereals but rescued by Alleria Windrunner, who had gained mastery of the Void herself on Argus. Permanently transformed by the process, they pledged their loyalty to her and the Alliance and established themselves as the ren'dorei.

As we can see, there already is a definition as to what a Velf is, and note how it doesn't say a race of void-infused Blood Elves, but instead suggests all Thalassian elves can be velves, so these new human tones don't affect that. Nor is the lore changed because High Elves can be Velves.

At some point you just have to accept what Blizzard's intent is with their content and move on, it doesn't need to be scrutinized to death because otherwise it would be real impractical for Blizzard to try and keep up.

Yeah, I know that definition, but that applies to the old/actual Void Elves; it was clear they had been transformed by the void, making them different biologically speaking, in a genetic-way; they were no longer Blood Elves or High Elves. Thus the different pigmentation. But in the near future, as they will be able to keep their original fair skin, the question still unanswered is if they're transformed biologically but can change their appearance to look "normal" -like Alleria does- or if they just manage to control the void. I just would like to know because I am a curious person and like knowing the lore, nothing more. And I hope we agree that if they define something as X, then they should be consistent on that definition, right?

Blonde hair isn't really characteristic to Belves imo, I consider their green eyes to be most characteristic. Which Velves aren't getting. So there's no problem there for me. We already know that Allied races are severely limited as far as customization goes, so there's nothing unreasonable about wanting Velves to get their fair share of options. And like I said the only reason Belves are even included in that request is because they share the same model. I doubt Velf or Helf fans would care about Belves if they had differing models.

No, no, I didn't say blonde hair is THE most iconic characteristic of the Blood Elves, but it is clearly one of them, just as they green eyes. I have seen in this very threat people asking also for the green eyes to become an option for the Void Elves... And sure, every Allied race could get more customization, but the only one getting attention at the moment are the Void Elves. And they already have more customization options in total than let's say Kul Tiran. So, why should they get even more options and before them -if they get those options with the release of shadowlands-? That would be unfair for the other races.

- - - Updated - - -

Why should I have to point you out to the post, when you do it again, right there? By calling the way they behave "egocentric", you're calling them "egocentric".

You are too dense. I never talk in absolute terms, that's why you are lying. I didn't generalize and extent that behavior to what you call "high-elf supporters", I didn't even use that term. I talked about the people wanting all the customization options of the Blood Elves to be given to the Void Elves, which doesn't mean every "high-elf supporter". And those are idiots in the original meaning of the word, and that goes by definition, it is not an opinion. So, just read properly next time before accusing anyone of anything, please.

Not the same thing. Their race is still called pandaren. They're just different factions. Just like Stormwind Humans and Gilneas humans. Both are still humans and call themselves humans. But the blood elves rebranded their race as "blood elves". The current high elves simply reject that notion and decided to retain the name "high elf".

Same thing (same race, in this videogame's meaning), different names. It doesn't matter that they call themselves in a different way, they will still be the same thing. So, it is analog to the Huojin and Tushui Pandaren situation; reason behind the different naming: wanting to differentiate themselves because of their faction while being the same thing in racial terms. Another thing would happen with the Void Elves, as they are said to be "transformed" by the void, ergo, different race.

[Ielenia]

You are too dense. I never talk in absolute terms, that's why you are lying. I didn't generalize and extent that behavior to what you call "high-elf supporters", I didn't even use that term. I talked about the people wanting all the customization options of the Blood Elves to be given to the Void Elves, which doesn't mean every "high-elf supporter". And those are idiots in the original meaning of the word, and that goes by definition, it is not an opinion. So, just read properly next time before accusing anyone of anything, please.

Really? Is there even a single person that wants that? Someone who wants "all of the blood elf customization options of the blood elves to be given to the void elves"?

Same thing (same race, in this videogame's meaning), different names. It doesn't matter that they call themselves in a different way, they will still be the same thing. So, it is analog to the Huojin and Tushui Pandaren situation; reason behind the different naming: wanting to differentiate themselves because of their faction while being the same thing in racial terms. Another thing would happen with the Void Elves, as they are said to be "transformed" by the void, ergo, different race.

Not the same thing. Playable race names come from lore. Lore explains that most of the survivors from the attack on the Sunwell rebranded themselves as "blood elves", while a smaller group, who refused to follow Kael'thas' decisions and therefore were banished from Silvermoon, held onto the name "high elves". They did not brand 'their group' as high elf or blood elves. They branded their race.

The pandaren? They never did such thing.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I'm hopeful that even if we don't get any new hairstyles or colors along with the new skin options, that allied races won't have to wait nearly as long as Worgen and Goblins did for additional options. I'd even go so far as to say I'd expect to see allied races that can reasonably use their parent race's new options get access to those options either at launch or in 9.1 or 9.2 the latest.

Nightborne need a lot of love though, and unfortunately also need more work than just inheriting options from Night Elves. Though I think inheriting some, if not all, Night Elf skin options is a possibility for them.

But yea, the 4 skin tones that look virtually the same and 2 different hair colors have a nearly identical color do artificially inflate how many options really exist.


I mean... really? These are supposed to be 4 different options? The differences are so minuscule as to be laughable.

Oh jebus! when you put the two farthest away by themselves you kinda can see the difference between pink and blue undertone, but all 4 together really blurs them together. But yeah, when the differences between 2 options is "undertone" it's already risible, but they are... 4. So wild



And hair color, two of the hair colors are basically the same to others, not even a shade in difference, and the other four are a spectrum between 2 colors. TBH, VE and LFD are the races with the most limited look overall, but LFD get a pass from most people because they just feel like extra options for regular draenei. VE and NB really feel way more limited because they are "cross faction"

I've always said that Nightborne, for all their flaws, actually have 3 skin tones that are very distinct, and IMO it's better to have less options that are actually different, instead of more options that barely differ.

[Lorca]

Really? Is there even a single person that wants that? Someone who wants "all of the blood elf customization options of the blood elves to be given to the void elves"?

You perfectly know there are people wanting that in this threat and who have posted those desires right here.

Not the same thing. Playable race names come from lore. Lore explains that most of the survivors from the attack on the Sunwell rebranded themselves as "blood elves", while a smaller group, who refused to follow Kael'thas' decisions and therefore were banished from Silvermoon, held onto the name "high elves". They did not brand 'their group' as high elf or blood elves. They branded their race.

The pandaren? They never did such thing.

All that doesn't matter. The point here is that they are still the same race, and there's no point in arguing that. They even kept the "Elf" part of the name, because they are the same race. The Huojin and Tushui Pandaren are also the same race. They are called Huojin or Tushui Pandaren because they want to differentiate themselves from each other, as they are the same thing in racial terms. This same thing happens with High Elves and Blood Elves. They call themselves differently but, want it or not, they are the same race. As in the Pandaren case, they only thing that changes is their factions and their culture (in just some aspects), but they're, basically, the same thing. So you talk about High Elves and Blood Elves when they are the same race but in different factions, but you don't do the same for Pandaren, when it is basically the same case.

[Ielenia]

You perfectly know there are people wanting that in this threat and who have posted those desires right here.

No. I do not. And I asked you to show me examples of people making that request.

All that doesn't matter. The point here is that they are still the same race, and there's no point in arguing that. They even kept the "Elf" part of the name, because they are the same race. The Huojin and Tushui Pandaren are also the same race.

Your whole contention for this is "how do we call the pandaren?" and I've already answered your question: unlike the blood elves, the pandaren did not rebrand themselves. Everything else is meaningless.

[Alixie]

Why are you still arguing over an issue that is settled?

There's people arguing who's the "truer" high elf because of bluer eyes. Reminds me of that episode of Fairly Odd Parents, where everyone is turned into identical grey blobs, but there's two people arguing that they are greyer and blobbier, therefor are better than the other grey blobs.

I mean, I dont know why people would want to play a Horde High Elf, and ignore the identity the Blood Elves have built up for themselves after the divergence from their cousins. (But we have writers who un-ironically had Night Elves join the Horde 5 minutes after being mass murdered by them. So whatever.) In any case, like Wildhammer Dwarves and Forest Trolls, they arent those actual races, just the fantasy for players to RP as.

[FlubberPuddy]

So just to be clear : Blizzard referred to this as customization for void elves, but because they also didn't say they weren't high elves, while directly calling them void elves, that means your statement is somehow not nonfactual? OOOOk.

And also, how is calling you out for making false claims about what people said being pedantic?
Blizzard did not say and has never said "you're getting High Elves!". You said they did. I'm noting you're stating falsehoods.
"Pedantic".

Be excited for your new customizations. But don't say false things and call people pedantic when they note it.
Also, maybe don't defend outright falsehoods by saying "but the opposite of what I claimed also wasn't stated".

I guess everyone else is wrong for calling them High Elves? I guess Blizzard should put a stop to that and correct them?

It looks like this is a case of you not getting the hint, but I don't have to convince you or anyone else of that.

If you don't get that these are High Elves, or worse - don't want to know - yikes, then go ahead and live in 'that reality'. Pedantic is actually what you are being, you should look it up.

Here ya go: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedant

"a: one who is unimaginative or who unduly emphasizes minutiae in the presentation or use of knowledge
b: one who makes a show of knowledge
c: a formalist or precisionist in teaching"

You're doing the first one.

[Syegfryed]

Why are you still arguing over an issue that is settled?

some people can't let it go, im not even complaining about void elves getting high elf skins, im just against the general idea of putting 2 races in the same, with different racials and shenanigans

Nice to know that blood elves demon hunters actually aren't blood elves. This example alone weakens all your stances on the matter.

The mutation on Blood elves isn't total yet, they still have their old racials, they are targeted as "half" demons for a reason, if they keep going well, they sure will be another thing, just like the felblood elves, who are indeed another race of elves

Culture alone changes and affects your body in a phenotype level.

Phenotypic change happens with the mix of the organism genetic code and the environment, not the environment alone

Their culture "grants" the Kul'tirans their resistance to nature and cold,

Having the right genetic code, trough mutations, leave then propitious to prevail in certin conditions and thus, it shows in the outside

And genetics? You haven't proven that what makes the Kul'tirans what they are is actually genetics and not just phenotype changes.

Phenotype changes happens exactly because your genotype, its both conditions

Genetic adaptations to that scale require a much longer period to simply emerge, much less spread to that scale.

in the real world yes

They are much likely to be phenotypical manifestations from culture and environment.

all phenotype manifestations also happens because your genotypic and your genetic code already have the toolss to manifest that.

Like i said, yo can't bring someone from the tropics and believe he will have the same resistance of cold than someone in iceland who his family is there from generations, no matter how hard you try, if you don't have already the right genes/mutations for that to happen.

Read about "insular gigantism". None of the factors for it is present in Kul'Tiras.

the foster's rule said a specie in an island tend to get bigger or smaller based on the resources available and also based around the predation, if there is no more predators or less than the mainland, species tend to get bigger, like the Kakapo, thats fits Kul'tiras, without "predators", enough resources, a group within then can become bigger

i mean, you can even said the dwarfism also happens there with the thin humans, both events happening at the same time is "normal", rare is happening in the same specie.

If you did know, you would know you are wrong in making that statement. Genotype changes such as that do not occur in such a short period of time.

genotype changes happens in every generation because trade of genes, in wow things are faster and more wild than usual.

I'm not sorry here, but you are factually wrong in that statement. You've been proven objectively wrong, already.

and this prove nothing, since their models were already different, way before they saying they would be playable

I'm not exactly keen on believing your word, considering our past discussions. And, again, you need to prove that the void elves are a new actual race,

and this boils down to, what kind of prove do you need, cause apparently youa re a keen beliver of the perfectionist Fallacy

y'know, genetics and all. Saying "they look different" is not enough

they looking different, passing trough a body mutation who give then different characteristics and racials is different enough to me

way more different than "one elf is alliance the other is horde"

And racials are rarely actually related to genetics, and more culture- and environmental-based.

a lot of then are related to genetics too

Wrong. I'm not saying they're not a new race "because there are no void elf children". I'm saying this is what you need to demonstrate that the void elves are a new race.

and you want me to prove with the void elf children.... like i said, i give other examples, if its nto enough for you then we end things here

The void elves are literally blood elves using void magic.

you mean blood elves mutated by the void.

Exception... because you want them to be?

because they are rly an exception

[Villager720]

I guess everyone else is wrong for calling them High Elves? I guess Blizzard should put a stop to that and correct them?

It looks like this is a case of you not getting the hint, but I don't have to convince you or anyone else of that.

If you don't get that these are High Elves, or worse - don't want to know - yikes, then go ahead and live in 'that reality'. Pedantic is actually what you are being, you should look it up.

Here ya go: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedant

"a: one who is unimaginative or who unduly emphasizes minutiae in the presentation or use of knowledge
b: one who makes a show of knowledge
c: a formalist or precisionist in teaching"

You're doing the first one.

All I’ve noted is that you made a false claim. What’s a definition in a dictionary have to do with the reality of a statement?

[FlubberPuddy]

All I’ve noted is that you made a false claim. What’s a definition in a dictionary have to do with the reality of a statement?

There's no false claim, you're just not getting it. The phrase "can't see the forest for the trees" can be aptly ascribed to you, although you probably won't get that as you clearly aren't able to see the obvious in the first place.

[vilememory]

Damn, nearing a thousand pages already. Now we need Illidan to say narrate something about this. See you at 1100.

[Lorca]

No. I do not. And I asked you to show me examples of people making that request.

Yeah, no thanks, no way I am diving into the hundreds of pages that were written this last week here to show you what you already know perfectly is true.

Oh well, I luckily found some, a conversation between two regular posters here of what I said about people wanting Void Elves to get Blood Elf characteristic customization options just to make the Blood Elves fans mad or something like that:


Varadoc: “Void elves should definitely have green eyes as well.”
Frenchvince: “The hair colors blond, white, chestnut, silver before anyway lol”

Varadoc: “Yeah, give them green eyes. I already got my popcorns ready.”

(and if you doubt about that being true, you can check those in their post history)

Your whole contention for this is "how do we call the pandaren?"[/URL] and I've already answered your question: unlike the blood elves, the pandaren did not rebrand themselves. Everything else is meaningless.

Just assume that they are exactly the same race, but that they call themselves differently because of their factions, nothing more. You could perfectly call them Alliance Thalassian Elves or Horde Thalassian Elves the same way you call every Pandaren just Pandaren regardless of their faction and not Huojin or Tushui. In the four cases the naming of the four different groups has exactly the same function and doesn't change the fact that below of that name lies the same thing if we talk in racial terms. Huojin and Tushui Pandaren are just Pandaren and High Elves and Blood Elves are just Thalassian Elves. What I pointed first was that in once case you don’t make any differentiation and call them the same way but in the other case you do.

Also, if you quote me, quote me correctly, I didn't ask how "we call Pandaren" but how "you" call Pandaren, as you probably don't call them by the name of the different groups as you do with the different groups of Thalassian Elves.

[Varodoc]

Yeah, no thanks, no way I am diving into the hundreds of pages that were written this last week here to show you what you already know perfectly is true.

Oh well, I luckily found some, a conversation between two regular posters here of what I said about people wanting Void Elves to get Blood Elf characteristic customization options just to make the Blood Elves fans mad or something like that:


Varadoc: “Void elves should definitely have green eyes as well.”
Frenchvince: “The hair colors blond, white, chestnut, silver before anyway lol”

Varadoc: “Yeah, give them green eyes. I already got my popcorns ready.”

(and if you doubt about that being true, you can check those in their post history)



Just assume that they are exactly the same race, but that they call themselves differently because of their factions, nothing more. You could perfectly call them Alliance Thalassian Elves or Horde Thalassian Elves the same way you call every Pandaren just Pandaren regardless of their faction and not Huojin or Tushui. In the four cases the naming of the four different groups has exactly the same function and doesn't change the fact that below of that name lies the same thing if we talk in racial terms. Huojin and Tushui Pandaren are just Pandaren and High Elves and Blood Elves are just Thalassian Elves. What I pointed first was that in once case you don’t make any differentiation and call them the same way but in the other case you do.

Also, if you quote me, quote me correctly, I didn't ask how "we call Pandaren" but how "you" call Pandaren, as you probably don't call them by the name of the different groups as you do with the different groups of Thalassian Elves.

I mean, it's true... since there are also blood elf scholars in Telogrus Rift, void elves should also have green eyes LOL.

Want some popcorns, by the way?

[Lorca]

I mean, it's true... since there are also blood elf scholars in Telogrus Rift, void elves should also have green eyes LOL.

But you are assuming that those Blood Elves become Void Elves. Is there any indication of that ingame? And again, I am just curious, you don't need to "fight" against me, I'm not what people here call "anti-heifer".

... And if any of those Blood Elves become Void Elves, is it a transformation (in their essence and genetically), like the first Void Elves and the ones described ingame or are those new Void Elves not transformed by the Void and only learn how to use it? In that case, are those Blood Elves really Void Elves or just Blood Elves using the void but with more expertise than a shadow priest? In that case, they would remain being Blood Elves, wouldn't they?

Want some popcorns, by the way?

Sure, as long as they aren't of the sweet type.

[Varodoc]

But you are assuming that those Blood Elves become Void Elves. Is there any indication of that ingame? And again, I am just curious, you don't need to "fight" against me, I'm not what people here call "anti-heifer".

... And if any of those Blood Elves become Void Elves, is it a transformation (in their essence and genetically), like the first Void Elves and the ones described ingame or are those new Void Elves not transformed by the Void and only learn how to use it? In that case, are those Blood Elves really Void Elves or just Blood Elves using the void but with more expertise than a shadow priest? In that case, they would remain being Blood Elves, wouldn't they?



Sure, as long as they aren't of the sweet type.

I thought it was an established fact at this point that the pink skin void elves are those high elf scholars in Telogrus Rift? So it should be the same thing with the blood elf scholars. There is a reason why they are listening to Locus-Walker's teachings.

Your second paragraph is unnecessarily convoluted. I just want green eyes...

[Lorca]

I thought it was an established fact at this point that the pink skin void elves are those high elf scholars in Telogrus Rift? So it should be the same thing with the blood elf scholars. There is a reason why they are listening to Locus-Walker's teachings.

Your second paragraph is unnecessarily convoluted. I just want green eyes...

How is it established as a fact that the future pink skin Void Elves are those High Elf pilgrims? I can see why someone could infer that, but that's not a necessary truth established as a fact currently in the game, thus my wondering about it.

Is "convoluted" wrong or bad if you are interested in the lore?