Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Raisei]

Why would silvermoon lose its population to alliance defection? The story could simply refer to them mastering their void energy and looking less voidy.

Exactly. Alleria is still looking peachy unless she goes into her Void Form, so of course the other Velfs can learn it too, it is just a matter of practice and time.

[Alanar]

I'm hopeful that even if we don't get any new hairstyles or colors along with the new skin options, that allied races won't have to wait nearly as long as Worgen and Goblins did for additional options. I'd even go so far as to say I'd expect to see allied races that can reasonably use their parent race's new options get access to those options either at launch or in 9.1 or 9.2 the latest.

Nightborne need a lot of love though, and unfortunately also need more work than just inheriting options from Night Elves. Though I think inheriting some, if not all, Night Elf skin options is a possibility for them.

But yea, the 4 skin tones that look virtually the same and 2 different hair colors have a nearly identical color do artificially inflate how many options really exist.


I mean... really? These are supposed to be 4 different options? The differences are so minuscule as to be laughable.

Nigjtborne dont even havr the same eyes or hairstyles as their npc counterparts.. I mean we dont even look like nightborne. They have for example 3 skin color options.

They need work, like many other races.

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How is it established as a fact that the future pink skin Void Elves are those High Elf pilgrims? I can see why someone could infer that, but that's not a necessary truth established as a fact currently in the game, thus my wondering about it.

Is "convoluted" wrong or bad if you are interested in the lore?

Its not and will never.. that is the whole point in adding high elf options to void en blood elves. You can rp as one or are freely to do so, but it will never say in your tag or anything like that.

That is the whole purpose, same with trolls later.. like sand/jungle. There is no name tag, but you can rp as one.
This is the reason why they added it to both races.. this also is a clear way of saying you will not get high elves, bit you can try to rp as one.

Sure as hell Intended if you ask me.

[elbleuet]

Why would silvermoon lose its population to alliance defection? The story could simply refer to them mastering their void energy and looking less voidy.

First because not all blood elves feel Horde at heart.

Second because the void elves need other elves to join their ranks to survive. The High elves sure will join them. But also the Blood elves, way more numerous.

[DeicideUH]

First because not all blood elves feel Horde at heart.

Second because the void elves need other elves to join their ranks to survive. The High elves sure will join them. But also the Blood elves, way more numerous.

Third, because we see that happening in Telogrus, where there's 5 blood elves against 2 (sometimes 3) high elves learning with the void elves.

[Kyriani]

I do agree Nightborne need a world of help. Blizz really dropped the ball on them. I'm hoping that the Nightborne see some love with Shadowlands launch just as Void Elves seem to be getting. Particularly I hope they get some, if not all, Night Elf skin options, and especially new face options that allow them to look more like their NPCs. I'd also like to see some Blood Elf hair styles shared with them as well since they have too few IMO.

[Ardenaso]

With the threat of the Legion gone, shouldn't Malfurion and Tyrande allow the Highborne and the High Elves to bask in their moonwells and the Well of Eternity at this point?

[FlubberPuddy]

With the threat of the Legion gone, shouldn't Malfurion and Tyrande allow the Highborne and the High Elves to bask in their moonwells and the Well of Eternity at this point?

The lore between characters moves at a snails pace. For instance we just got some involvement with Lor'themar and not much changed with him other than "I have a girlfriend now" but his character being 'torn between the horde/duty/silvermoon and himself' wasn't any new development at all and more cuz Blizzard hasn't used him for anything much at all since his introduction, and that one time he almost joined up with the Alliance.

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But yea, the 4 skin tones that look virtually the same and 2 different hair colors have a nearly identical color do artificially inflate how many options really exist.


I mean... really? These are supposed to be 4 different options? The differences are so minuscule as to be laughable.

Yeah this is really dumb, "4 choices!" but they're all practically the same.

[Ielenia]

Yeah, no thanks, no way I am diving into the hundreds of pages that were written this last week here to show you what you already know perfectly is true.

Then do not go around making claims you cannot, or are not willing to back up.

Varadoc: “Void elves should definitely have green eyes as well.”
Frenchvince: “The hair colors blond, white, chestnut, silver before anyway lol”

Varadoc: “Yeah, give them green eyes. I already got my popcorns ready.”

(and if you doubt about that being true, you can check those in their post history)

... Did you really not realize those were comments made with the intention to "rile up" the other side? Really?

Just assume that they are exactly the same race, but that they call themselves differently because of their factions, nothing more. You could perfectly call them Alliance Thalassian Elves or Horde Thalassian Elves the same way you call every Pandaren just Pandaren regardless of their faction and not Huojin or Tushui. In the four cases the naming of the four different groups has exactly the same function and doesn't change the fact that below of that name lies the same thing if we talk in racial terms. Huojin and Tushui Pandaren are just Pandaren and High Elves and Blood Elves are just Thalassian Elves. What I pointed first was that in once case you don’t make any differentiation and call them the same way but in the other case you do.

Also, if you quote me, quote me correctly, I didn't ask how "we call Pandaren" but how "you" call Pandaren, as you probably don't call them by the name of the different groups as you do with the different groups of Thalassian Elves.

I'm calling them the way the game calls them. Huojin pandaren are called pandaren. Tushui pandaren are called pandaren. Blood elves are called blood elves. And high elves are called high elves.

[Ignaz]

some people can't let it go

Like you

The mutation on Blood elves isn't total yet, they still have their old racials, they are targeted as "half" demons for a reason, if they keep going well, they sure will be another thing, just like the felblood elves, who are indeed another race of elves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

Literally Mutation means genetic change, and if you know what that means, the simple fact that your eyes change color means a mutation expressed in a phenotypic change. Now, imagine horns growing on your head.

Phenotypic change happens with the mix of the organism genetic code and the environment, not the environment alone

Not in wow. In the real world we don't have Fel or light energy, that's why; We cannot witness these kinds of violent changes (not even with radiation). However, in wow there are those energies and more that allow violent mutations with slight phenotypic changes and other very striking ones.

In wow it is not necessary to cross genetic material from two individuals to create a mutation (genetic change). You just need to be near an energy source for that to happen.

Having the right genetic code, trough mutations, leave then propitious to prevail in certin conditions and thus, it shows in the outside

You are confusing the innate ability to adapt with mutations.If your grandfather and grandmother are going to live on the coast in the first stage of adulthood, then they have your parents on the same coast and your parents have you, that does not mean that you will go out with gills to better interact with the ocean

in the real world yes

That's why you can't use real life scientific terms in wow

Like i said, yo can't bring someone from the tropics and believe he will have the same resistance of cold than someone in iceland who his family is there from generations, no matter how hard you try, if you don't have already the right genes/mutations for that to happen.

Incorrect, the adaptability of mammals is extreme. That allows any normal human being to live in almost any part of the world (and getting used to it).

the foster's rule said a specie in an island tend to get bigger or smaller based on the resources available and also based around the predation, if there is no more predators or less than the mainland, species tend to get bigger, like the Kakapo, thats fits Kul'tiras, without "predators", enough resources, a group within then can become bigger

Until they extinguish other species

genotype changes happens in every generation because trade of genes, in wow things are faster and more wild than usual.

Again- that's why you can't bring real life science to wow


In fact. If we bring real life science to wow, it could be shown that just by having paler skin and blue eyes, Helves would be a different breed than Belves who have darker skin tones and green (mutated) eyes. , Sure; being both members of the same species.

[Alanar]

I mean, it's true... since there are also blood elf scholars in Telogrus Rift, void elves should also have green eyes LOL.

Want some popcorns, by the way?

Are you okey?

I guess you want them with salt?

[Villager720]

There's no false claim, you're just not getting it. The phrase "can't see the forest for the trees" can be aptly ascribed to you, although you probably won't get that as you clearly aren't able to see the obvious in the first place.

When did Blizzard say the alliance was getting playable high elves, as you quoted.

[Manariel]

I'll be honest... I am torn.

I know, I'm late, being banned because I was a moron and all but... i'm really torn. About the HE skins on the Void Elves.

At first I was exultant, because it confirmed what I had said for a long time, that the Void Elves were a failed compromise, that Blizzard knew it by now and that the HE allied-race (in this case, the skins) were a "break in case of emergency" situation.

But the thing is, I'm afraid Alliance players are in a lose-lose situation here.

People who wanted High Elves as a separate Allied Race (and I'm a aprt of this group still), we can't in good conscience say that Blizzard can easily do that now. Resources would rather go to HE customizations on Void Elves. It'd be even easier to do, after all. And why not? I've always said that Void Elf players mostly wanted this kind of customization anyway, over twisted Void-horror looks. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the High Elves proper will get any development, except if the fear of the Void Elves fans happen, as I say below.

Because people who wanted more Void Elves development since they ended liking them (sometimes against their better judgement, like myself) are also losing, because Blizzard will take notice of which looks are better received by the community. One way or another. People on the forums won't complain about Void Elves being everywhere Alliance side, but High Elves or Void Elves with High Elves skins. Meaning that it's probable that the Void Elf identity, as weak and feeble as it already was, will be subsumed by the High Elf's one.

So, basically, we could end with either the loss of the Silver Covenant and Alliance aligned High Elves or the loss of the Void Elves as a distinct subculture. And I'm both extremely happy and very sad about all of it. it's a real conundrum...

[Florena]

I'll be honest... I am torn.

I know, I'm late, being banned because I was a moron and all but... i'm really torn. About the HE skins on the Void Elves.

At first I was exultant, because it confirmed what I had said for a long time, that the Void Elves were a failed compromise, that Blizzard knew it by now and that the HE allied-race (in this case, the skins) were a "break in case of emergency" situation.

But the thing is, I'm afraid Alliance players are in a lose-lose situation here.

People who wanted High Elves as a separate Allied Race (and I'm a aprt of this group still), we can't in good conscience say that Blizzard can easily do that now. Resources would rather go to HE customizations on Void Elves. It'd be even easier to do, after all. And why not? I've always said that Void Elf players mostly wanted this kind of customization anyway, over twisted Void-horror looks. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the High Elves proper will get any development, except if the fear of the Void Elves fans happen, as I say below.

Because people who wanted more Void Elves development since they ended liking them (sometimes against their better judgement, like myself) are also losing, because Blizzard will take notice of which looks are better received by the community. One way or another. People on the forums won't complain about Void Elves being everywhere Alliance side, but High Elves or Void Elves with High Elves skins. Meaning that it's probable that the Void Elf identity, as weak and feeble as it already was, will be subsumed by the High Elf's one.

So, basically, we could end with either the loss of the Silver Covenant and Alliance aligned High Elves or the loss of the Void Elves as a distinct subculture. And I'm both extremely happy and very sad about all of it. it's a real conundrum...

I feel like the void elf identity was already kind of endangered by Umbric's personality in BFA. When you talk to him about why he's with the Alliance etc, he sounds a lot like a high elf, with very high elf ideals, it's just oh he happens to use the void. Similar to how they peeled away a lot of the edge blood elves had post BC I feel like they're doing a similar thing with void elves, but we'll see what gets done with them.

Ultimately though I don't think these options will really do anything to further harm void elf identity. Alleria already looks like a normal high elf and she's the most prominant void elf. And all the void elf voice clips and racials are distinctly void elf.

I do feel bad for high elf supporters, because while this is a step closer to what they want, it also makes it all the more unlikely that an actual High Elf allied race will ever come to the Alliance. But from the void elf perspective, as someone who was pleasantly surprised by their addition and took a liking to them despite them being a new thing and not pre existing high elves, I really don't see any downsides to this.

[FlubberPuddy]

When did Blizzard say the alliance was getting playable high elves, as you quoted.

When did Blizzard say the alliance weren't getting playable high elves, as the person I responded to quoted?

We've already established you're being pedantic, no need to keep proving it.

[Villager720]

When did Blizzard say the alliance weren't getting playable high elves, as the person I responded to quoted?

We've already established you're being pedantic, no need to keep proving it.

...when did Blizzard say the Alliance wasn’t getting playable zombie dragons?
Is that really your argument?
“Someone said something false so I said something false. Then I defended the claim because no one ever said what I said wasn’t not said.”

Just own up to posting something false and stop name calling when people note it’s false.

[Ielenia]

The mutation on Blood elves isn't total yet, they still have their old racials, they are targeted as "half" demons for a reason, if they keep going well, they sure will be another thing, just like the felblood elves, who are indeed another race of elves

This is precious coming from you. The blood elf demon hunters have horns, wings, glowing eyes and fel-pocked skin, and their bodies can mutate into an actual demon form, changes that are just as drastic, if not even more so than the void elves... but they're not a new race "because racials"?

Phenotypic change happens with the mix of the organism genetic code and the environment, not the environment alone

I'll admit to the possibility I'm not using the correct name here, but my overall point is sound: the racials for the kul'tirans can easily be explained solely through culture and environment, without even having to touch genetics, whatsoever.

Like i said, yo can't bring someone from the tropics and believe he will have the same resistance of cold than someone in iceland who his family is there from generations, no matter how hard you try, if you don't have already the right genes/mutations for that to happen.

Except I never claimed that. I said that if someone from the tropics moves over to somewhere real cold, like near the poles of the world, eventually their bodies would adapt to deal with the cold better. No genetics necessary.

genotype changes happens in every generation because trade of genes,

Not to that speed.

in wow things are faster and more wild than usual.

Prove it.

and this prove nothing, since their models were already different, way before they saying they would be playable

You know Kul'tirans have been known to be a playable race since before BfA launch. It's been pointed out to you.

and this boils down to, what kind of prove do you need, cause apparently youa re a keen beliver of the perfectionist Fallacy

I'm a believer of "not making fallacious statements and claims without evidence". If you want to state, conclusively, that void elves are an actual new race, then you need to show conclusive evidence of such. The character creation screen is not enough evidence.

they looking different, passing trough a body mutation who give then different characteristics and racials is different enough to me

Just 'looking different' is not enough, and racials, as explained, are mostly culture-based. Again, you want to state, conclusively, that the void elves are a separate race? Then show conclusive evidence of that. "Eh, they kinda look different" does not cut it.

a lot of then are related to genetics too

Rarely, actually.

and you want me to prove with the void elf children....

No. I offered you an example of what could be used to show that "void-ification" means a new race. In the absence of void elf children, why don't you tweet at a WoW developer and ask?

you mean blood elves mutated by the void.

"Mutated" mean zilch if you cannot prove it's a hereditary change. For all we know, A void elf is as much a "new race" as someone who lost an arm is a "new race".

because they are rly an exception

Because you want them to be one.

[delus]

This is precious coming from you. The blood elf demon hunters have horns, wings, glowing eyes and fel-pocked skin, and their bodies can mutate into an actual demon form, changes that are just as drastic, if not even more so than the void elves... but they're not a new race "because racials"?


I'll admit to the possibility I'm not using the correct name here, but my overall point is sound: the racials for the kul'tirans can easily be explained solely through culture and environment, without even having to touch genetics, whatsoever.


Except I never claimed that. I said that if someone from the tropics moves over to somewhere real cold, like near the poles of the world, eventually their bodies would adapt to deal with the cold better. No genetics necessary.


Not to that speed.


Prove it.


You know Kul'tirans have been known to be a playable race since before BfA launch. It's been pointed out to you.


I'm a believer of "not making fallacious statements and claims without evidence". If you want to state, conclusively, that void elves are an actual new race, then you need to show conclusive evidence of such. The character creation screen is not enough evidence.


Just 'looking different' is not enough, and racials, as explained, are mostly culture-based. Again, you want to state, conclusively, that the void elves are a separate race? Then show conclusive evidence of that. "Eh, they kinda look different" does not cut it.


Rarely, actually.


No. I offered you an example of what could be used to show that "void-ification" means a new race. In the absence of void elf children, why don't you tweet at a WoW developer and ask?


"Mutated" mean zilch if you cannot prove it's a hereditary change. For all we know, A void elf is as much a "new race" as someone who lost an arm is a "new race".

We're talking about a world where magic can turn people into Sheep here. The worgen curse is one such magical transformation that is not inherited by offspring.

[Ielenia]

We're talking about a world where magic can turn people into Sheep here. The worgen curse is one such magical transformation that is not inherited by offspring.

Yes. And that is why the worgen are not a race.

[Melsiren]

I think this thread should be locked now. What further purpose will it serve?

No no, we need another 900 pages demanding void elf paladins and both sides getting Farstrider tattoos.

This thread is fucking cursed.

[Syegfryed]

Like you

like you know bringing up this again?

Literally Mutation means genetic change, and if you know what that means, the simple fact that your eyes change color means a mutation expressed in a phenotypic change. Now, imagine horns growing on your head.

and im tlking about mutation enough to change a race, i acknowledge blood elf mutation, i said isn't enough to change race

Not in wow. In the real world we don't have Fel or light energy, that's why; We cannot witness these kinds of violent changes (not even with radiation). However, in wow there are those energies and more that allow violent mutations with slight phenotypic changes and other very striking ones.

still with those energy sources it don't happens with envirolment alone, those energies act to change your body in a genetic lv, fel do that, they did with the orcs, they did with void elves, lightforged, etc

In wow it is not necessary to cross genetic material from two individuals to create a mutation (genetic change). You just need to be near an energy source for that to happen

.

i know that, those energy sources change your body, thus, change your genetics

You are confusing the innate ability to adapt with mutations.

im rly not, im talking about natural selection, that "chose" the individuals better adapted to a place, trough their characteristics and pass on

That's why you can't use real life scientific terms in wow

you can to a degree

Incorrect, the adaptability of mammals is extreme. That allows any normal human being to live in almost any part of the world (and getting used to it).

there is still people better suited to live there and others who will have hard time, no matter how much time it pass, i know a guy who lived 9 years in Sweden, and he always get screwed by the cold in contrast to the people there

Until they extinguish other species

sure, but not relevant to what i said, or is?

Again- that's why you can't bring real life science to wow

you can to a extend, not everything will be the same, but the general idea is the same

In fact. If we bring real life science to wow, it could be shown that just by having paler skin and blue eyes, Helves would be a different breed than Belves who have darker skin tones and green (mutated) eyes. , Sure; being both members of the same species.

indeed, but we don't talk about that or mods ban us

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This is precious coming from you. The blood elf demon hunters have horns, wings, glowing eyes and fel-pocked skin, and their bodies can mutate into an actual demon form, changes that are just as drastic, if not even more so than the void elves... but they're not a new race "because racials"?

and i indeed said they are mutated blood elves, just half trough it, they are not demons yet, if they keep going they will be another thing

I'll admit to the possibility I'm not using the correct name here, but my overall point is sound: the racials for the kul'tirans can easily be explained solely through culture and environment, without even having to touch genetics, whatsoever.

it does have to do with culture and environment, just not tht alone, genetics make those things be possible

Except I never claimed that. I said that if someone from the tropics moves over to somewhere real cold, like near the poles of the world, eventually their bodies would adapt to deal with the cold better. No genetics necessary.

a bit? yes, but like the natives? nope, and like we saw, there is norml kul'tirans living in the same area, nd they are not like the kul'tirans, this mean they are not like the others, they do not have a certain combination of genes to manifest said phenotype

Not to that speed.

i mean, every generation there can be drastic changes, i will not cite the examples here cause will fall to the same mods lerts, but it does happens sometimes, in wow it happens with that speed because is a fantasy world with magic

Prove it.

trolls, nightborne, etc

You know Kul'tirans have been known to be a playable race since before BfA launch. It's been pointed out to you.

and since we know expansions are created way ahead, kul'tirans were already different before Legion ended, and only with the expansion reveal, with player feedback, they decided to make then plyable

I'm a believer of "not making fallacious statements and claims without evidence". If you want to state, conclusively, that void elves are an actual new race, then you need to show conclusive evidence of such. The character creation screen is not enough evidence.

and since nothing is good enough for you, we just stay in a deadlock

Just 'looking different' is not enough,

most of time is enough, especially when the ritual transform you entirely in a creature of the void and only left your soul and mind intact

and racials, as explained, are mostly culture-based.

not as explained, you implied

Again, you want to state, conclusively, that the void elves are a separate race? Then show conclusive evidence of that. "Eh, they kinda look different" does not cut it.

like i said deadlock, their bodies being completely transformed and mutated by the void is enough for you, nothing will

Rarely, actually.

almost everything falls down to that

No. I offered you an example of what could be used to show that "void-ification" means a new race. In the absence of void elf children, why don't you tweet at a WoW developer and ask?

there is no necessity since we already have others ways to prove, you just don't accept then

Because you want them to be one.

because they rly are, unless you have another example.