Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ignaz]

Because "Demos with infinite range" fill in all the plot holes. The whimsy



WoW "races" are species. Allied races actually are races when paired with their counterparts, except Vulpera who are their own species. Just say no to furry goblin mental imagery. And technically the elves are collectively a species whereas Void Elves are more akin to Belfs than Nelfs.

That is what we have been saying him many post ago...

- - - Updated - - -

there should be a significant difference chance, something meaningful

like DH Belves

i don't think the same race calling thenselves different and going to another faction is enough

again, bringing the principles of genetics and the very definition of race, the Belves began to be a different race from the Helves (who never interacted with fel magic) when they began to mutate their phenotypic characteristics (eye color and skin less pale).And I repeat, for the notion of the game itself, that doesn't matter because the developers don't use those terms properly, therefore; you can't use that kind of terms (real life science) in the game.

not enough, since they reverted back without the exposure

Even if that's true they're still mutations.

and thats the point, there is zero, differences between the groups except faction allegiance, it can be build, they can make it difference(cof cof void elves) they will just not be the same again

observation denies that. I see green eyes (mutated) and tan skin (mutated) not according to the appearance of a Helf that did not interact with fel magic.

not always

prove it (natural selection)

they indeed mention the drust, vrykul, the pre-humans, there is also the common and logical theory that explain the big kul'tirans characteristics being heritage of the drust who joined the kul'tirans society

of course everyone invalidate that immediately because there is no confirmation yet, but its logical

It is a good hypothesis, but it is still that: A HYPOTHESIS
and if you are using science to prove your point you have to stick to its mere definition: "human knowledge constituted by the set of objective and verifiable knowledge on a certain subject"

not rly, in wow things are changed around by magic and devs desire

Exactly, that's why you can't use absolute terms in a game that isn't guided by them. it's a fantasy game, dude.

We know that species are a group who have similar characteristics to each other and can breed with each other, and they would not be able to breed with others

Incorrect. individuals of similar species have been shown to be able to breed a hybrid species (although in rare cases).
The individuals of the equine group as an example.

but in wow they can

you are right

do you think the entire cocnept of specie is wrong and every race is just the same specie?

let me explain on a hierarchical scale:Species is a basic unit of biological classification based on the principle of a set of organisms or natural populations capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring, these natural creatures have to share similar phenotypic and physiological traits to fit into that group. in the species, there are also groups in which they are subdivided on the basis of phenotypic traits, based on a series of characteristics that are transmitted by genetic inheritance (races).
In wow none of that matters because Blizzard uses the terms improperly, even coming up with terms like "subraces".

no, to a degree, the specie concept is vallid

not with real science

you have this "innate" ability trough your genes, its unarguably that if you have a better genetic to that kind of condition you will have a better time than someone who don't

Okay. Let's take your assumption as absolute. That means that if I go to the gym and condition myself to lift more weight than the common human, does it mean that my genes have changed and that I am going to inherit my muscles to my children?
I don't know about you, but that sounds ridiculous

fantasy races is fine, the problem is when we bring up real world humans as example

PERFECT! Now you understand why you can't use real science in wow -pat on the back-

[Lorca]

It's wrong and bad and a total waste of time. Do you want to know how green eyes for void elves will affect you? You will moan about it on the forums for a few days then move on with your life and forgot they are even a thing.

Excuse me, but saying that wanting to know is "wrong and bad" is plain stupid and ignorant, and even more if you don't offer any arguments to point out and show how "it's wrong and bad and a total waste of time".

Also... "high-elfers" here used to put all their attention on anything related to the High Elves: every little detail that differentiated that group was important and made them be what they are -or were?-. Anything related to them was also excruded, but I see that many of you don't care anymore. What a shame.

[Frenchvince]

Also... "high-elfers" here used to put all their attention on anything related to the High Elves: every little detail that differentiated that group was important and made them be what they are -or were?-. Anything related to them was also excruded, but I see that many of you don't care anymore. What a shame.

Blizzard allowed the two factions to obtain in a way the appearance of high elf by sharing options between them, this is why the requests also evolved, we adapt, quite simply ...
You should do the same.

[Lorca]

Then do not go around making claims you cannot, or are not willing to back up.

I did. And probably you were even one of those asking for the Blood Elves customization, as you are pissed off that you are not getting proper High Elves.

... Did you really not realize those were comments made with the intention to "rile up" the other side? Really?

And that was what I said. Read my post again before, again, misunderstanding what people actually writes. In any case, Varadoc admitted wanting the greens eyes, so my point still stands and you got there another proof of what I said.

I'm calling them the way the game calls them. Huojin pandaren are called pandaren. Tushui pandaren are called pandaren. Blood elves are called blood elves. And high elves are called high elves.

Explain me please how "the game" calls them anything. They refer to themselves that way, but that doesn't make them a different thing in racial terms. Both Pandaren groups are the same race, as both Elven groups are the same race. In both cases, they call themselves differently precisely to differentiate themselves from the others. The fact that there exist the names Huojin and Tushui doesn't mean anything to you? Your problem here as that your criterion is arbitrary. You don't differentiate by the name both groups of the payable Pandaren, even if their groups got different names being the same race, just different groups with different cultures -or ways- and factions, but you do this with High Elves and Blood Elves, even if the naming in both cases works exactly the same and has the same pragmatic function.

Let's say you play a Pandaren. If I asked you what race you played, what would be your answer? Just Pandaren or would you add the faction too in any possible form - Alliance Pandaren, Pandaren in the Alliance... etc.-? Bingo: you'll add something. And if you wanted to be precise, you'd say Tushui or Huojin Pandaren. Same way you would do if High Elves you want were a playable race in the Alliance: you'd say High Elf for the Alliance group and Blood Elf for the Horde group, even if they're exactly the same race.

Doesn't matter if the Blood Elves "renamed" their race -and not "rebranded" as you said, as it is a race, and not a brand- and the playable Pandaren just gave a different name to their groups: the naming has the same function in both cases, and thus you should call both groups by their different naming. If you want to be "picky", do it well.

[Syegfryed]

like DH Belves

but dh are not in the other faction either, their difference still boils down to the same race affected by demon magic, they didn't become something else yet, belves mutated by fel energies became felblood elves

again, bringing the principles of genetics and the very definition of race, the Belves began to be a different race from the Helves (who never interacted with fel magic)

it is stated that even the high elves who were in quel'thalas at that time would be affected, the interactions of blood elves were not enough to change a race, since we know for sure, by all blizz sources that they are still the same race biologically, the ones who did change were felblood elves

when they began to mutate their phenotypic characteristics (eye color and skin less pale)

there still ones pales and there still ones with the normal eye color

And I repeat, for the notion of the game itself, that doesn't matter because the developers don't use those terms properly, therefore; you can't use that kind of terms (real life science) in the game.

we can use in a degree, because they themselves use it too

Even if that's true they're still mutations.

lwith the elves glow is more colateral effect to the radiation rather than mutation, since their eyes glows based in all energies they use, like a tan, if it reverts, its not a mutation

observation denies that. I see green eyes (mutated)

not mutated, and even if it was, there is the reverse of the mutation, so there would be no difference at all

and tan skin (mutated)

that is not a difference, since all elves share those skins

prove it (natural selection)

we have example of birds or other animals who didn't went extinct after a "better" one appear, they most migrate and evolve separated, the "old" ones didn't went extinct

It is a good hypothesis, but it is still that: A HYPOTHESIS

and i didn't said it was a fact, just a logic theory

Exactly, that's why you can't use absolute terms in a game that isn't guided by them. it's a fantasy game, dude.

I can't use, blizzard can, and their absolute terms is that blood and high elf are the same race, they are equal in biology and anything else, the only difference is one is alliance and the other is horde, people like to pretend that is false, some like to show how drastically and deep is their "cultural" difference is, regardless of being just a few years of separation, and claim that is enough to be a different race, that, i don't agre

Incorrect. individuals of similar species have been shown to be able to breed a hybrid species (although in rare cases).
The individuals of the equine group as an example.

that is not incorrect, is the general definition of species

equines are someway related, but when you put Draeneis, beings of a far world and orcs, who came from a long line of beings created by the elements and a titan and they can reproduce, and can also reproduce with humans, deformed children of titan constructs affected by a old curse, things go out of hand

let me explain on a hierarchical scale:Species is a basic unit of biological classification based on the principle of a set of organisms or natural populations capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring, these natural creatures have to share similar phenotypic and physiological traits to fit into that group. in the species, there are also groups in which they are subdivided on the basis of phenotypic traits, based on a series of characteristics that are transmitted by genetic inheritance (races).

the problem is how is already stated that elves are the same specie/race, and thats why it don't work compare then with other races like trolls that we know for sure are not the same race of trolls

Blood elf and high elf thing problem isn't like other allied races, or other races, they are like pandaren, you don't say you have one race of pandaren in horde and another race of pandaren in the alliance, they are the same race

Okay. Let's take your assumption as absolute. That means that if I go to the gym and condition myself to lift more weight than the common human, does it mean that my genes have changed and that I am going to inherit my muscles to my children?

lets put 2 people to do this same condition, one who is predisposed with better genetic to that kind of thing, and the other who isn't, in the same time, who do you think will get more jacked? there is tons of examples of people who eat as fuck and never get fat, but another who eat less and get fat, those things are all genetic

PERFECT! Now you understand why you can't use real science in wow -pat on the back-

i mean we can, but we can only stick with animals, the rest is off-limits

[Lorca]

Blizzard allowed the two factions to obtain in a way the appearance of high elf by sharing options between them, this is why the requests also evolved, we adapt, quite simply ...
You should do the same.

If you are okay with a grey-haired High Elf appearance, as I'll be, then that's cool. I am asking here, where the High Elf experts are supposed to be -no pun intended- about the Void Elf - High Elf lore, as I can only fill with my imagination the lore holes that arised with the addition of the fair skin. But many of you guys take everything as an attack.

[ThiagoTorres]

What blizzard should do is stop priorize horde a little bit and look for both factions as equal..

Every good stuff goes to horde thats a fact, thats why every expansion ppl are running to horde more and more, look, even ally racials were nerfend and horde buffed at same time.

[Frenchvince]

If you are okay with a grey-haired High Elf appearance, as I'll be, then that's cool. I am asking here, where the High Elf experts are supposed to be -no pun intended- about the Void Elf - High Elf lore, as I can only fill with my imagination the lore holes that arised with the addition of the fair skin. But many of you guys take everything as an attack.

Void elves are also Thalassian elves, so it's only fitting that they get options to make them look more natural.
I don't think Blizzard will share anything other than skin / eye colors and potentially hair colors or the choice of ear size.

[Ielenia]

Explain me please how "the game" calls them anything. They refer to themselves that way, but that doesn't make them a different thing in racial terms.

"Racial terms" is a meaningless term, since "separate, independent, actual race" has been shown to not be a prerequisite for a given group to be playable.

And as far how "the game" calls them, just go check the quest text in which they call your character by their race: if you're a Tushi pandaren, they call you 'pandaren'. If you're a Huojin pandaren, they call you pandaren. If you are a blood elf, they call you a 'blood elf'.

And as for the high elves, check the Silver Covenant rep description:
"A militant core of high elves that rejects the admission of blood elves into the Kirin Tor. They've united under the banner of Vereesa Windrunner and joined the Alliance forces in Northrend."

- - - Updated - - -

greater? no, not even close

Yes, "greater". And that's an objective fact. What do void elves get? Tentacle-shaped hair, purple skin, and the ability to infuse themselves with void magic. And what do blood elf demon hunters get? Horns, wings, fel-pocked skin, and the ability tranform into a demon.

explaining wrong don't make you right, its always necessary, its always needed

It's not, and I've explained why. You, so far, have only asserted that they are, though.

and like i said to you, culture and environments don't work alone

For the purposes of what we're doing here, yes, they can, and they do.

based genes deleterious those shit can happen, we have examples of radiation doing those big changes in one or fewer generations

Ok. So show me evidence of "radiation" or whatever other BS that exists in Kul'Tiras alone that could have miraculously made kul'tirans into an actual separate race.

Zandalari went to Northrend, became ice trolls, jungle trolls went to tanaris became sand trolls

Night elves affected by the nightwell became nightborne

both quickly "evolutions" trough natural and amgic means

"Quick"? The nightborne suffered forced evolution (the nightwell). As for the zandalari, do you even know how much time has passed? The Sundering alone happened ten thousand years ago. And the Sundering was caused by the night elves... who evolved from the trolls... so add to that a few more thousand years. By the way, just meeting the mogu happened twelve thousand years ago.

so? they obviously didn't want to spoil that yet, is like you thinking they created vulpera from the spot, just because they didn't show then in legion don't mean they were not done

You're moving the goalposts, since your original claim is that the kul'tirans already looked different before they started working on the playable race.

they wee not going to be playable, and after players wanting then,

You have developer interviews saying that the Kul'tirans were planed from the get-go as an allied race, and zero evidence about player feedback, but you insist on this delusion.

you have to show that, since you bring that up, not me, youa re saying they are different in major ways, prove it

No, I don't. You brought it up that the timelines are the same. You asserted that your claim is factual. Therefore it's your job to show evidence that your claim is, indeed, factual. So far you've shown none, just empty assertions.

Meanwhile, all I did was offer alternative possibilities, and offered evidence of how they are possible.

the rituals that changed the void elves changed then entirelly, only their minds and souls are the same, like i said, if THIS, is not enough for you, entire body transformation, nothing will be

Prove it. Prove that the purple skin is not just a cosmetic side-effect. Which, by the way, is highly likely to be the case, considering we're getting normal skin tones for void elves in Shadowlands.

they are not just infused and you know that

They are just infused. Why don't you read the racial's tooltip:
"Your abilities have a chance to empower you with the essence of the Void"
And let's take a look at the tooltip for the DH's metamorphosis ability, just for the sake of comparison:
"Upon landing, you are transformed into a hellish demon for 30 sec"

explained wrongly and gave wrongly examples

Your handwaving does not make my explanations and examples wrong.

considering you are the one responsible for trapping us in this eternal loop that you just can let it go, just to get the final answer

I haven't "trapped" anyone, "buddy". You're free to leave any time you wish. Don't blame me for your inability to let go and walk away.

its definitly one

It's not. It's just a simple fact of you being wrong, and I'm being right here. The demon hunters suffer a much greater transformation than void elves.

your entire bone about those elves is literally you adjusting things to fit your narrative that the groups are different someway somehow and making the false equivalences comparing others to the elf case, when they are totally different.

Says the guy who says void elves are more of an actual, separate race than the blood elf demon hunters "because racials".

i proved they are different races,

No, you did not. You made an assertion without an iota of conclusive evidence for that. Not to mention that the same "rules" you're using to qualify the void elves as a "separate race" also qualify the blood elf demon hunters as a "separate race", but since "because racials", DH BEs are not a separate race.

they are not the same race anymore because they got mutated by the void into something else, just like nightborne are night elves mutated by the nightwell,

We have nightborne children, which proves that the nightborne's condition is hereditary, therefore proving that they are an actual new race. We don't have void elf children, meaning we have absolutely no way of proving that they are an actual race aside from developer commentary. Of which we have none. And you accuse me of false equivalence.

you don't like or want accept those explanations,

I don't accept them because they're not valid. What you're doing here is akin to saying that a bar of dark chocolate is actually white chocolate, just because white food coloring was used when preparing said chocolate.

that is your problem with the perfectionist fallacy

So, being honest and not assuming things without evidence is a fallacy now. Do you even know what a "fallacy" is?

there is nothing more to be discussed here anymore

And yet you keep going.

we absolutely have,

We don't, if we want to keep this honest. At least, I want to keep this honest. You, apparently, are insisting on making it dishonest, by assuming things as fact without evidence.

when there is no other example, just then, they are the exception.

Wrong. You want to disqualify them because they completely destroy what you originally said, here:

like is aid there is not a single example of the same race, with no fundamental difference

And the pandaren are this "single example of the same race, with no fundamental difference".

[Vaedan]

but dh are not in the other faction either, their difference still boils down to the same race affected by demon magic, they didn't become something else yet, belves mutated by fel energies became felblood elves

I'm afraid the lore says something else. It is clear that demon hunters are now something different to what they were. It is first observed by Maiev in WC3 (first mission of Sentinel's Campaign in TFT:

"Illidan has grown powerful: of that, there is no doubt. He consumed the energies of the Skull of Gul'dan. Now he is neither night elf nor demon, but something more."

It is also later revealed that Illidan's soul and the soul of PC is actually changed by the demon within so they can be reborn in the Twisting Nether. While we know that not every demon hunter have this level of transformation, it is safe to speculate that there are more such individuals.

Also, there is small interaction with demon hunter PC and Dreamweaver NPCs in Val'sharah. If you approach Sylvia Harshorn (Dreamweavers Emissary) as DH, she says:

What have you done to yourself, <name>? You're more demon than <night elf/blood elf>.

You also need to consider fact that both night and blood elven demon hunters are rejected from their mother factions (it is often mentioned by various DH NPCs), they are feared and often met with prejudice. All Illidari consider themself loyal to the Illidan and his order, and then to respective factions. Racial allegiences are not important for them. They chose to work with factions only to defeat Burning Legion and to protect the Azeroth.

Also, felblood elves and sin'dorei illidari did completely different things. Felbloods drinked a lot of demon blood, thus become extremely fel corrupted. Illidari absorbed soul of a demon to gain spectral sight and other abilities of the demon. Two really different things. Apples to oranges.

The fact that Demon Hunters are labeled as Night Elves / Blood Elves and retain their racials is purely gameplay thing, pretty much in the same way as we have holy undead / void elf / mag'har orc priests or shadow draenei / lightforged draenei priests. There are pretty clear indications that demon hunters are not mere elves anymore.

On the other hand, there is no evidence that void elves are something more. In fact, ethereals wanted to transform them into beings of pure void, but they were interrupted. Void elves remained elves, but they gained additional powers. They are only able to infuse themselves with void powers for short period of time, and they are not even able to control when it happens. Demon hunters transform themselves at will into demon. Those are really different things. If the void elves would be able to transform into pure void being (like ethereal, voidwalker, faceless?) at will, then we may discuss they are on the same level of mutation as demon hunters. Right now, no void elf, even Alleria herself, is not able to do such thing.

[DeicideUH]

So, are we back to THAT discussion AGAIN?

Here's, let's hear an specialist:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Old_Wizard%27s_Almanac

The Old Wizard's Almanac: The Alliance

As a historically Alliance-friendly organization, one would think that the Kirin Tor might not need a guidebook outlining the Alliance races. I feel that the opposite is true - that we can only understand the other races after truly looking inward. -O.W.

Human - As adaptable a race as you will ever find, humans can be some of the most highly skilled magic-users. Any list of the most powerful mages in history will be dominated by humans. Perhaps most tellingly, the Old Wizard himself is a human.

Dwarf - Dwarves possess a moderate magical acuity, but tend to have difficulty at the higher echelons of wizardry. While they tend to focus more on priestly endeavors, a rare few have been known to dabble in arcane or necromantic activities.

Gnome - Gnomes are remarkably adept arcanists. Pound for pound, they are some of the most potent casters the world has ever known, and have always had a presence in the Kirin Tor.

Night Elf - While night elves tend to avoid arcane energy like it was the Scourge, their druidic powers are second to none.

Draenei - This ancient race has brought the alliance both powerful wizards and masterful wielders of the Light. More recently, the Draenei have adopted shamanism after their arrival in Kalimdor.

High Elf - The magic of the high elves is extremely powerful. High elves possess a magical acumen that rivals that of any - even the humans. Some of the greatest heroes in the Battle of Mount Hyjal were the High Elf Priests.

The Old Wizard's Almanac: The Horde

Up until the last few years, most of my information on the Horde has been anecdotal, or inferred from my few experiences in battle against them. However, as the Kirin Tor has recently adopted a more neutral stance in Horde-Alliance relations, the amount of information on the Horde and their magic has exploded. - O.W.

Orc - Despite their obvious physical strength, they display a decent magical ability. Orcs tend to make poor arcanists, but culturally have a heritage of peaceful shamanism, combined with a more recent focus on the darker magic of warlocks and necromancy.

Tauren - Few experiment with the arcane, but the bull-men are highly attuned to the magics of the earth. As is the case with many nature-worshiping tribes, many follow the path of the shaman. Furthermore, their most senior druid can rival the archdruids of Darnassus in power.

Troll - A surprising affinity for the magic arts belies the troll's barbaric reputation and history. My Zul'tour - an expedition into the troll empires of Zul'Aman, Zul'Farrak, and Zul'Drak - has revealed a startling variety in troll casters, ranging from witch doctors to shadow priests to a bizarre animal worship that most closely resembles druidism.

Undead - The undead have as much magical skill as can be expected of any living human... if not more. Sylvanas' Forsaken, in particular, fling spells with the frightening levels of zeal.

Blood Elf - A history of prolonged exposure to magical energy has left an indelible mark on the Blood Elves. These lithe, magic-addicted creatures seem to fare well in any magical school they study. Most recently, the blood elves have take up the path of the "Blood Knight", which can be loosely described as a form of paladinism.

Taunka - Much like their tauren cousins, taunka tend to focus on magic stemming from the earth.

[Lorca]

"Racial terms" is a meaningless term, since "separate, independent, actual race" has been shown to not be a prerequisite for a given group to be playable.

Nice that you omitted the rest of the post, as you know you are plainly wrong about it and don't have any proper argument.

How is it a meaningless term if it has a meaning? Maybe you are the one, again, not knowing what some words mean. It's as simple as that regarding to the WoW concept of race -which is basically the word used as a synonym for species in the game-, Blood Elves and High Elves are the same, just as Huojin Pandaren and Tushui Pandaren are the same. Pretty simple. As I said, if you want to be picky, do it well.

And as far how "the game" calls them, just go check the quest text in which they call your character by their race: if you're a Tushi pandaren, they call you 'pandaren'. If you're a Huojin pandaren, they call you pandaren. If you are a blood elf, they call you a 'blood elf'.

That's just because of game design and due to the Pandaren being a neutral race. They could perfectly add Tushui or Huojin in front of Pandaren and it would work perfectly fine, even better, as it will show to which group they belong. Same thing could be applied to the Mag'har Orcs and their clans. Same race, different names.

In any case, in the Pandaren intro zone you are told about the differences about both Pandaren groups and again when you have to choose a faction. That the quest givers don't call you by that name doesn't change the fact that the game explicitly tells you the difference between both Pandaren groups and offer you to choose one of them, always taking into account their differences. Still, they are the same race, but a different group with a different name. If you don't see any other reference to their different name is mainly because Blizzard hasn't explore or develop the story of the two groups of Pandaren in both factions, but that's another subject.

And as for the high elves, check the Silver Covenant rep description:
[URL="https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Covenant#Reputation_description"]"A militant core of high elves that rejects the admission of blood elves into the Kirin Tor. They've united under the banner of Vereesa Windrunner and joined the Alliance forces in Northrend."

So? Surprise, surprise, same thing happens with the Pandaren reputation of each faction if you click on their reputation bar: Huojin Pandaren for the Horde, and Tushui Pandaren for the Alliance, explaining what makes each group characteristic.

[FlubberPuddy]

So, are we back to THAT discussion AGAIN?

Here's, let's hear an specialist:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Old_Wizard%27s_Almanac

Good to bring these up every now and then as I believe Blizzard forgot their own lore pieces like this as to how iconic the separation between those who identify as High Elves and those who identify as Blood Elves are.

Basically, the game itself consistently points out that High Elves and Blood Elves are different groups with different loyalties defining them. Thus despite being the same race the actual groups are different.

And this is all lore-based.

Being the same race has no factor. It's like trying to tell people Bronzebeards and Wildhammers are the exact same group because they're the same race. It looks super foolish and majority understand the differences.

Unless one is a pedant about gameplay design rather than lore.

[DeicideUH]

Good to bring these up every now and then as I believe Blizzard forgot their own lore pieces like this as to how iconic the separation between those who identify as High Elves and those who identify as Blood Elves are.

Blizzard didn't forget. We saw high and blood elves being distinguished in Legion, after all!

All other three preorder ARs were developed during Legion, only void elves were non-existing. Not even Alleria's design and colors have any hint of the future void elves. Why? Which race was on Alliance for most of Legion? High elves! I bet Alleria's return was meant to rally the high elves and make them playable. The plan was eventually opposed by part of the team and outvoted, so void elves replaced them at the last moment, leaving no room to properly develop their lore and give them a storyline. Because of the new void elves, Blizzard decided to reduce the high elf presence in BfA, to the point that a high elf mini-boss in Arathi battleground was replaced in alpha. However, forum backlash followed, and Blizzard eventually had to cave and try a new compromise through customization.

Ion's answers on "high elves are pretty much blood elves" always sounded to me as him trying to avoid explaining how the decision for void elves was made back then. Think about it, in that fateful interview, the question was: "Why void elves instead of high elves?", and the answer didn't try to promote the void elves, but make the high elves seem unimportant. That's because void elves weren't organically developed, they were a decision not even the team was fully behind.

[scubi666stacy]

Blizzard didn't forget. we saw high and blood elves being distinguished in Legion, after all!

All other three preorder ARs were developed during Legionm only void elves were non-existing. Not even Alleria's design and colors has any hint of the future void elves. Why? Which race was on Alliance for most of Legion? High elves! I bet Alleria's return was meant to rally the high elves and make them playable. The plan was eventually opposed by part of the team and outvoted, so void elves replaced them at the last moment, leaving no room to properly develop their lore and give them a storyline. Because of the new void elves, Blizzard decided to reduce the high elf presence in BfA, to the point that a high elf mini-boss in Arathi battleground was replaced in alpha. However, forum backlash followed, and Blizzard eventually had to cave and try a new compromise through customization.

Ion's answers on "high elves are pretty much blood elves" always sounded to me as him trying to avoid explaining how the decision for void elves was made back then. Think about it, in that fateful interview, the question was: "Why void elves instead of high elves?", and the answer didn't try to promote the void elves, but make the high elves seem unimportant. That's because void elves weren't organically developed, they were a decision not even the team was fully behind.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory for me.

BTW, while High Elves are mentioned on the Alliance side, they are not found in the core or allied races. The Wiki covers all Warcraft games, so it makes sense to mention High Elves because they have been playable on the Alliance in the RTS games, but they parted ways in WCIII. Case closed.

[Ardenaso]

I should post this again now that I have removed the unchristian R-18 words (please don't infract me this time)



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high elf mini-boss in Arathi battleground

who? the portal girl in Boralus?

[scubi666stacy]

I should post this again now that I have removed the unchristian R-18 words (please don't infract me this time)



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who? the portal girl in Boralus?

Yeah, the typical trope of an Elven chick falling for a Human male. Coming from some ***** who would never get to date a cheerleader in High School and compensates with a playmate fantasy. Gosh...

[Molvonos]

Yeah, the typical trope of an Elven chick falling for a Human male. Coming from some ***** who would never get to date a cheerleader in High School and compensates with a playmate fantasy. Gosh...

....What?

I have a feeling there's way more to this.

[FlubberPuddy]

Blizzard didn't forget. we saw high and blood elves being distinguished in Legion, after all!

All other three preorder ARs were developed during Legionm only void elves were non-existing. Not even Alleria's design and colors has any hint of the future void elves. Why? Which race was on Alliance for most of Legion? High elves! I bet Alleria's return was meant to rally the high elves and make them playable. The plan was eventually opposed by part of the team and outvoted, so void elves replaced them at the last moment, leaving no room to properly develop their lore and give them a storyline. Because of the new void elves, Blizzard decided to reduce the high elf presence in BfA, to the point that a high elf mini-boss in Arathi battleground was replaced in alpha. However, forum backlash followed, and Blizzard eventually had to cave and try a new compromise through customization.

Ion's answers on "high elves are pretty much blood elves" always sounded to me as him trying to avoid explaining how the decision for void elves was made back then. Think about it, in that fateful interview, the question was: "Why void elves instead of high elves?", and the answer didn't try to promote the void elves, but make the high elves seem unimportant. That's because void elves weren't organically developed, they were a decision not even the team was fully behind.

Yup I remember that replacement, I wonder if the people who opposed the decision back then have since left the team or somehow somewhere something made them come to the conclusion of 'let's finally give Alliance High Elves and let's give the option to Horde too since it's very contentious to only give to one side'.

Yeah Ion never tried to make Void Elves sound like a superior option, probably because of what you've said and I still think it was due to a higher up producer who happens to have had a VE NPC named after them and their husband as well.

I was always saying back then too that if High Elves didn't the make the cut over Void Elves (because HE may have been deemed too similar at the time) then they would surely follow afterwards. Feels good to be right

But regardless of all that happened, it's amazing we're here today where High Elves are coming to Alliance, can't wait to see the options get onto the Alpha so it can be properly put the Wowhead dressing room.

[Ignaz]

but dh are not in the other faction either

my point is not about which faction they are in, it is about the mere concept of race. using real science, they would be cataloged as a different breed than the Belves, however; are shown in the game as simple Belves.

belves mutated by fel energies became felblood elves

Felelves are just another example

it is stated that even the high elves who were in quel'thalas at that time would be affected, the interactions of blood elves were not enough to change a race, since we know for sure, by all blizz sources that they are still the same race biologically, the ones who did change were felblood elves

For Blizzard, those who use scientific terms incorrectly. They can do what comes out of their ass but that does not mean that it has any relationship with science.

I want to make something clear, I am not saying that Helves and Belves are different races by Blizzard standards. The point I want to get to is that if we use real life scientific principles in a fantasy game, we will find a sea of contradictions, that is why you cannot mix the logic of the real world with the logic of a fantasy world.
In this case, the mere concept of race is violated by the logic of the game; in part by the terms invented by the developers themselves.

there still ones pales and there still ones with the normal eye color

It's true, but I repeat: Helves (who never interacted with fel magic) and Belves (who did interact and had subtle mutations) can be considered different races of the same species if we use real life science. Blizzard Interested? nope; that is why they can decide whether or not they are different races and put it in their official sources. and that's why you can't use information based on real life facts in a game that comes from the imagination of fantasy content creators

we can use in a degree, because they themselves use it too

you can't, or you use it completely or you don't use it. And again, They can do what comes out of their ass but that does not mean that it has any relationship with real science.

lwith the elves glow is more colateral effect to the radiation rather than mutation

contradiction

since their eyes glows based in all energies they use, like a tan, if it reverts, its not a mutation

How do you know it is not a mutation if it is based on magic?

not mutated, and even if it was, there is the reverse of the mutation, so there would be no difference at all

still have darker skin tones

and i didn't said it was a fact, just a logic theory

That's what i'm telling you; it's just a hypothesis, not a fact. Therefore you cannot verify or prove your point

I can't use, blizzard can, and their absolute terms is that blood and high elf are the same race, they are equal in biology and anything else, the only difference is one is alliance and the other is horde

Of course. and that's why it doesn't have to do with real science but with the logic of the game.

and that we have not even touched the point of ficiology...

some like to show how drastically and deep is their "cultural" difference is, regardless of being just a few years of separation, and claim that is enough to be a different race, that, i don't agre

that's content for another debate

that is not incorrect, is the general definition of species

I already explained that to you with concepts backed by science.

equines are someway related

they are still different species

but when you put Draeneis, beings of a far world and orcs, who came from a long line of beings created by the elements and a titan and they can reproduce, and can also reproduce with humans, deformed children of titan constructs affected by a old curse, things go out of hand

exactly! that's why you can't use REAL WORLD SCIENCE in a FANTACIA game

To be honest, I don't know what your point is anymore

lets put 2 people to do this same condition, one who is predisposed with better genetic to that kind of thing, and the other who isn't, in the same time, who do you think will get more jacked?

the one who does the right exercise

there is tons of examples of people who eat as fuck and never get fat, but another who eat less and get fat, those things are all genetic

This has more to do with metabolic behavior in the principle of energy creation (krebs cycle) and also the distribution of body fat (not everything goes to the belly), and also the diet, of course.
You can't blame everything on genetics hehe xD

i mean we can, but we can only stick with animals, the rest is off-limits

in wow, not even animals are saved from the twisted logic of a fantasy world