Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[DeicideUH]

who? the portal girl in Boralus?

No, a mini-boss that guarded an Alliance checkpoint in the road just above Stromgarde was a high elf originally. They later replaced it with the gnome on the tank, I think.

[Frenchvince]

It was this high elf who was removed from Arathi's warfront.

https://twitter.com/NicaraoGaming/st...558465/photo/1

[Evilfish]

Once again, you are wrong. They have different allegiances. They had different ways to deal with the magic withdrawal when the Sunwell was corrupted. Their culture can be argued to have become differentiated due to their status as exiles.

I brought this up earlier. High Elves are not high elves cause they are under the Alliance banner. It was said several times, by the develoeprs themselves but not like I'd expect you people to understand or accept that there's no difference between them aside the color they done, previously it might have been the eyes but even that is going to get rectified.

What culture differences? Actually what culture? Aside the Helfs having some unexplained hatred towards the belfs that has no valid reason and it crossed the idiocy line, there's nothing going on with the helfs. Your helf culture is a rabied, irrational reaction device to belfs. Nothing more. So my advice to you is to forget about helf culture and focus on velf culture instead, you might even start enjoying yourself.

[DeicideUH]

Yup I remember that replacement, I wonder if the people who opposed the decision back then have since left the team or somehow somewhere something made them come to the conclusion of 'let's finally give Alliance High Elves and let's give the option to Horde too since it's very contentious to only give to one side'.

Most likely the second option, IMO.

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It was this high elf who was removed from Arathi's warfront.

https://twitter.com/NicaraoGaming/st...558465/photo/1

Cool, that's the one.

[Ielenia]

Nice that you omitted the rest of the post, as you know you are plainly wrong about it and don't have any proper argument.

I omitted because the rest of the argument was based on a wrong premise, which I addressed.

How is it a meaningless term if it has a meaning? Maybe you are the one, again, not knowing what some words mean. It's as simple as that regarding to the WoW concept of race -which is basically the word used as a synonym for species in the game-, Blood Elves and High Elves are the same, just as Huojin Pandaren and Tushui Pandaren are the same. Pretty simple. As I said, if you want to be picky, do it well.

And both Tushui and Huojin pandaren are playable, meaning that being "actual separate race" is not a prerequisite for them to become playable.

That's just because of game design and due to the Pandaren being a neutral race. They could perfectly add Tushui or Huojin in front of Pandaren and it would work perfectly fine, even better, as it will show to which group they belong. Same thing could be applied to the Mag'har Orcs and their clans. Same race, different names.

Coulda-shoulda-woulda. Then why did they not? Why didn't Blizzard made the NPCs refer to pandaren characters as "Huojin pandaren" and "Tushui pandaren"?

In any case, in the Pandaren intro zone you are told about the differences about both Pandaren groups and again when you have to choose a faction. That the quest givers don't call you by that name doesn't change the fact that the game explicitly tells you the difference between both Pandaren groups and offer you to choose one of them, always taking into account their differences. Still, they are the same race, but a different group with a different name. If you don't see any other reference to their different name is mainly because Blizzard hasn't explore or develop the story of the two groups of Pandaren in both factions, but that's another subject.

Your comparison with the pandarens fail because this comparison assumes that, if high elves became a playable race, that would somehow make the thalassian race a "neutral race", like the pandaren. The high elves would not have the same hair styles, racials, mounts, etc., as the blood elves. Or even the same starting zone.

So? Surprise, surprise, same thing happens with the Pandaren reputation of each faction if you click on their reputation bar: Huojin Pandaren for the Horde, and Tushui Pandaren for the Alliance, explaining what makes each group characteristic.

You asked for instances in the game in which the high elves are called high elves and blood elves called 'blood elves'. You've been shown them.

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Aside the Helfs having some unexplained hatred towards the belfs that has no valid reason

High elves: "Look, I'm sorry, but we cannot support this. This is mana vampirism, and it goes against what we believe."
Blood elves: "Oh, you don't agree with us? THEN GET THE FUCK OUT OF YOUR OWN HOMES!! FOREVER!! I HOPE YOU ALL DIE IN THE PLAGUELANDS!!!"

Yeah. 'unexplained hatred for no reason', indeed.

[DeicideUH]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory for me.

It's speculative analysis of a corporate decision. Why weren't void elves properly developed and presented in Legion?
Even Danuser once said that they came to be after Alleria's story was an internal success. That means after 8.3 was mostly done. So... what was the plan for the 4th allied race before that? What was being seeded in Legion before that?

BTW, while High Elves are mentioned on the Alliance side, they are not found in the core or allied races. The Wiki covers all Warcraft games, so it makes sense to mention High Elves because they have been playable on the Alliance in the RTS games, but they parted ways in WCIII. Case closed.

First, that is not a text written for the wiki, but found in-game. It's a canonical in-universe opinion.

Second, Taunka is listed as a Horde race in it. So, it isn't about only playable races or a reference to past games, it covered even some minor races affiliated with each faction that were important in that expansion (WotLK).

Third, even if it was just a reference to past games, it still is an account of a in-universe character listing high and blood elves are separate "races".

[Evilfish]

High elves: "Look, I'm sorry, but we cannot support this. This is mana vampirism, and it goes against what we believe."
Blood elves: "Oh, you don't agree with us? THEN GET THE FUCK OUT OF YOUR OWN HOMES!! FOREVER!! I HOPE YOU ALL DIE IN THE PLAGUELANDS!!!"

Yeah. 'unexplained hatred for no reason', indeed.

Indeed. The banishment does not justify the shere hatred they have for their former comrades. Especially considering they have no issue with the nelfs who also banished them. It seems more to me like they overcompensated on the hatred gauge to please their human masters, but I guess that's a given, because I was wrong. The alliance helfs do have another role. To be human girlfiriends. That's the state of the alliance helfs is a total joke and it has been for years.

The belfs were even kind enough to allow helfs a pilgrimage to the Sunwell and the alliance helf reaction has remained "grrr grrr, we still hate you more than anyone...ever". An absolute joke.

[Lorca]

I omitted because the rest of the argument was based on a wrong premise, which I addressed.

What premise? You don't even know what a premise is. Stop using words of which you don't know the meaning. Just as you show with rebranded and phenotype.

And both Tushui and Huojin pandaren are playable, meaning that being "actual separate race" is not a prerequisite for them to become playable.

?

Coulda-shoulda-woulda. Then why did they not? Why didn't Blizzard made the NPCs refer to pandaren characters as "Huojin pandaren" and "Tushui pandaren"?.

Yeah, blablaing, that seems to be the thing you do best. I told you: game design. Laziness. It's irrelevant how the quest givers refer to those Pandaren, as other NPC's clearly specify the difference between those groups, as the text of the reputation for both groups do. The main problem here, and which you try constantly to dodge, is that you call the Thalassian Elves allied with the Alliance "High Elves" to differentiate them, because you want to highlight that they're differnet -even if they're the same race-, but you don't do that with the Pandaren, which shows your arbitrary criterion, as the naming in both situations works EXACTLY the same.

Your comparison with the pandarens fail because this comparison assumes that, if high elves became a playable race, that would somehow make the thalassian race a "neutral race", like the pandaren. The high elves would not have the same hair styles, racials, mounts, etc., as the blood elves. Or even the same starting zone.

That comparison is not assuming anything. Comparisons don't assume anything, they don't have any kind of will or intelligence to do that. In any case, you, and only you, are the one assuming here that the "Thalassian race" would become neutral if High Elves became playable. And not only that, but you also assume that both groups would have different hairstyles, racials, mounts and starting zones. I only talked -and it's already too repetitive to say it- about how the naming of both cases works, in the cases of the Pandaren and the Thalassian Elves, which is linguistically the same, and this is not hard to understand.

You asked for instances in the game in which the high elves are called high elves and blood elves called 'blood elves'. You've been shown them.

No, I didn't ask for that. Learn to read or stop lying. You exactly said, and I am quoting you, "I'm calling them the way the game calls them. Huojin pandaren are called pandaren. Tushui pandaren are called pandaren. Blood elves are called blood elves. And high elves are called high elves.", to which I asked you how is the game calling them anything. And in any case, the game "calls" -horrible metaphor, by the way- them Tushui and Huojin Pandaren, as those two names exist in the game for something. The problem, again, is that you ignore them because you are only interested in High Elves. You are "precise" with the details you are interested in only, and that's pretty much being cynical. You do that for the High Elf and Blood Elf groups, calling them differently, but not for the Pandaren, or even, as I said, the Mag'har Orcs.

[FlubberPuddy]

Most likely the second option, IMO.

Clearly, given how petty some people are still being despite the fact that Blizzard themselves have settled the matter and decided that sharing is the way to go.

I guess some just don't like to share?

[Syegfryed]

I'm afraid the lore says something else. It is clear that demon hunters are now something different to what they were. It is first observed by Maiev in WC3 (first mission of Sentinel's Campaign in TFT:

DH are basically half-demons and half- elves, still they are the same "race", if you remove the energy its prob that the H lost powers

my point is not about which faction they are in, it is about the mere concept of race. using real science, they would be cataloged as a different breed than the Belves, however; are shown in the game as simple Belves.

because they are still in the same faction, are just a class and re mostly the same race with demon powers is fine compared to another race, in the other faction, with no difference whatsoever

The point I want to get to is that if we use real life scientific principles in a fantasy game, we will find a sea of contradictions, that is why you cannot mix the logic of the real world with the logic of a fantasy world.
In this case, the mere concept of race is violated by the logic of the game; in part by the terms invented by the developers themselves.

i do know there is lots of contradictions, and blizzard have the final say, we can only do is try to find meaning/logic in blizzard soup

It's true, but I repeat: Helves (who never interacted with fel magic) and Belves (who did interact and had subtle mutations) can be considered different races of the same species if we use real life science.

But like i said, helves did interacted with fel magic, and there can be belves who didn't, and the mere interaction could not be enough

and we already have blizzard saying it didn't, its like low lv of radiation who don't change things

contradiction

why? is more like their biology, eye glow based on the magic they use, its a "natural thing"

How do you know it is not a mutation if it is based on magic?

because it can revert, and it later is changed in other colors

still have darker skin tones

like i said, not relevant, and definitely not relevant now tht they got even black tones

That's what i'm telling you; it's just a hypothesis, not a fact. Therefore you cannot verify or prove your point

an that was what i said, i see no reason for you highlight that

they are still different species

but related, others aren't

exactly! that's why you can't use REAL WORLD SCIENCE in a FANTACIA game

do they also don't reproduce by sex and trade of genes? isn't that a real world thing?

the one who does the right exercise

not rly

You can't blame everything on genetics hehe xD

it also have a big factor of it

in wow, not even animals are saved from the twisted logic of a fantasy world

indeed

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Yes, "greater". And that's an objective fact. What do void elves get? Tentacle-shaped hair, purple skin, and the ability to infuse themselves with void magic. And what do blood elf demon hunters get? Horns, wings, fel-pocked skin, and the ability tranform into a demon.

that is not an objective fact, youa re talking about just visual difference, while blood elves sprout demon characteristcs from their bodies, void elf is an entire new being created from void energy with only their minds and souls intact

It's not, and I've explained why. You, so far, have only asserted that they are, though.

you didn't, you think you did

For the purposes of what we're doing here, yes, they can, and they do.

for the purposes that things are being discussed no

Ok. So show me evidence of "radiation" or whatever other BS that exists in Kul'Tiras alone that could have miraculously made kul'tirans into an actual separate race.

Kultirans would not suffer from what i said, i just said it is possible things happening in a small spawn of time, kul'tirans had some generations to build that up and of course, if you take account of how drusts joined the kul'tiran society, and you know, trade of genes happened

"Quick"? The nightborne suffered forced evolution (the nightwell).

forced or natural was never the point

As for the zandalari, do you even know how much time has passed? The Sundering alone happened ten thousand years ago. And the Sundering was caused by the night elves... who evolved from the trolls... so add to that a few more thousand years.

and the gurubashi and the amani around those time

You're moving the goalposts, since your original claim is that the kul'tirans already looked different before they started working on the playable race.

exactly, and i firmly believe that

You have developer interviews saying that the Kul'tirans were planed from the get-go as an allied race, and zero evidence about player feedback, but you insist on this delusion.

you have develop interviews saying that zandalari druid forms would be just raptor as different, and that high elves are blood elves and you insist on the delusional as well, lets keep each other in our delusional shall we?

No, I don't. You brought it up that the timelines are the same.

i said they were different in the point of one baine being a coward, the rest is show to be the same

You asserted that your claim is factual. Therefore it's your job to show evidence that your claim is, indeed, factual. So far you've shown none, just empty assertions.

you claim they were different, your prove it

Prove it. Prove that the purple skin is not just a cosmetic side-effect. Which, by the way, is highly likely to be the case, considering we're getting normal skin tones for void elves in Shadowlands.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_elf_(playable)

Alleria Windrunner: The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us.

Seeking to harness the corruptive magic of the Void, these outcast elves endured an unexpected transformation.

. Alleria succeeded in killing Durzaan, and while their minds and souls were still their own, the sin'dorei had been transformed by the ritual

but come again and say how this don't matter and how this isn't enough, cause its pretty solid to me

Says the guy who says void elves are more of an actual, separate race than the blood elf demon hunters "because racials".

and you know, because their bodies entirelly are transformed

We have nightborne children, which proves that the nightborne's condition is hereditary, therefore proving that they are an actual new race. We don't have void elf children, meaning we have absolutely no way of proving that they are an actual race aside from developer commentary. Of which we have none. And you accuse me of false equivalence.

again with the perfectionist fallacy

I don't accept them because they're not valid

its not for you to decide

And yet you keep going.

last i checked, its you who keep quoting me and saying nonsense, i already had dropped the subject and you keep going

Wrong. You want to disqualify them because they completely destroy what you originally said, here:

i disquilfy then because they are an exception, a rce shaped and introduced like that, simple as that

and just using pndarens as a example, you don't say you have different races of pandarens in both factions, but you keep saying elves are different races in gameplay terms, regardless of they not using your playable race terms with pandarens

[Ielenia]

that is not an objective fact, youa re talking about just visual difference, while blood elves sprout demon characteristcs from their bodies, void elf is an entire new being created from void energy with only their minds and souls intact

Prove it. For the umpteenth time, prove it. You love to make this claim, but you so far have not shown any evidence of that.

you didn't, you think you did

So your counter is "nuh-uh"?

Kultirans would not suffer from what i said, i just said it is possible things happening in a small spawn of time, kul'tirans had some generations to build that up and of course, if you take account of how drusts joined the kul'tiran society, and you know, trade of genes happened

It is highly unlikely that the drust has intermingled with the kul'tiran humans. Otherwise we would still have drust living today, in Kul'tiras, and yet the only two drust still "alive" are Gorak Tul and Ulfar.

forced or natural was never the point

That's where you're wrong. It is very much relevant to the point, here. Because "induced evolution" requires something to induce such accelerated evolution, which Kul'Tiras lacks.

exactly, and i firmly believe that

You're free to believe that. It's your right to be willfully wrong. Just don't get mad when people call you out on it when you try to pass false information as truth.

you have develop interviews saying that zandalari druid forms would be just raptor as different, and that high elves are blood elves and you insist on the delusional as well, lets keep each other in our delusional shall we?

And absolutely zero interviews or mentions saying "thanks to player feedback, we're making kul'tirans playable". And I'm the delusional one.

i said they were different in the point of one baine being a coward, the rest is show to be the same

And you have yet to prove that "the rest" is the same. Show me the mention of the book that says that Garrosh is the exact same as our Garrosh, that he is not affected by debilitating magic or poison, that the mak'gora rules are the exact same, etc, etc. That's what I'm talking about: you're making assertions of fact without any sort of evidence.

you claim they were different, your prove it

No. I did not. My only claim regarding this was that I doubt your claim about

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_elf_(playable)

but come again and say how this don't matter and how this isn't enough, cause its pretty solid to me

A link that says absolutely nothing about their purple skin being cosmetic or not. Bravo. "The void has shaped us, changed us"? "Endured an unexpected transformation"? "The sin'dorei have been transformed"? You do know that nothing that you quoted there says anything whatsoever about the purple skin being just a cosmetic effect or not? Having their minds now constantly assailed by whispers of the void "changes and shapes" someone. Having their skin turn purple also counts as "transformation". They have a connection to the void now, but none of that implies that the purple skin is anything but cosmetic.

And, I'll remind you once again: the fact void elves are getting fair skin options in Shadowlands practically proves that 'purple skin' is nothing but a cosmetic change.

and you know, because their bodies entirelly are transformed

Prove it. With specific statements, not vague mentions. Because, as far as I know, the purple skin is just cosmetic.

again with the perfectionist fallacy

Once again, you state that being honest and not making assertions of facts without conclusive evidence is a "fallacy".

its not for you to decide

But it is "for you to decide" when my explanations are valid or not? Double-standards much?

last i checked, its you who keep quoting me and saying nonsense, i already had dropped the subject and you keep going

But you keep going, don't you? I'm not "forcing" you to respond to me. Again, don't blame me for your apparent inability to let go and move on.

i disquilfy then because they are an exception, a rce shaped and introduced like that, simple as that

So, in other words, it's because of your agenda. You claimed there wasn't a single example of races existing in both factions with no differences, and you were proven wrong. You don't get to disqualify the existing example as "the exception" when you're talking about "single instances".

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Indeed. The banishment does not justify the shere hatred they have for their former comrades.

Because what basically amounts to a death sentence to either a painful, slow death, or a quick, horrific death is totally not a reason to despite those that condemned them. And such "comrades" they are, to do that to their peers, eh?

Especially considering they have no issue with the nelfs who also banished them.

Apples and oranges. When the high elves were banished the night elves, they were not in a position of weakness and suffering, and the banishment from the night elves did not basically spell doom to the high elves.

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Yeah, blablaing, that seems to be the thing you do best. I told you: game design. Laziness.

"Laziness". Such a convenient answer, isn't it? And no, I don't call the Alliance-aligned thalassian elves "high elves" to differentiate them. I call them "high elves" because they're called high elves.

The problem, again, is that you ignore them because you are only interested in High Elves. You are "precise" with the details you are interested in only, and that's pretty much being cynical. You do that for the High Elf and Blood Elf groups, calling them differently, but not for the Pandaren, or even, as I said, the Mag'har Orcs.

Read above. And how do you know I don't call the pandaren by their groups? I call them by their groups when I want to speak specifically about them. I say 'pandaren' when I'm talking about all pandaren. And you're wrong about the mag'har orcs. I don't call them just 'orcs'.

[Syegfryed]

Prove it. For the umpteenth time, prove it. You love to make this claim, but you so far have not shown any evidence of that.

already show, and already ignored by you

It is highly unlikely that the drust has intermingled with the kul'tiran humans.

its very likely, since they would reproduce with humans and the proof of that is how the big kul'tirans are so much like the drust

Otherwise we would still have drust living today, in Kul'tiras, and yet the only two drust still "alive" are Gorak Tul and Ulfar.

they reproduce and died, their children live on, simple as that

You're free to believe that. It's your right to be willfully wrong. Just don't get mad when people call you out on it when you try to pass false information as truth.

who is mad? i mean you are one furiously argumentation about it

And you have yet to prove that "the rest" is the same. Show me the mention of the book that says that Garrosh is the exact same as our Garrosh, that he is not affected by debilitating magic or poison, that the mak'gora rules are the exact same, etc, etc. That's what I'm talking about: you're making assertions of fact without any sort of evidence.

again with the fallacy of ignorance, if things were different it would be mentioned in the book

A link that says absolutely nothing about their purple skin being cosmetic or not. Bravo. "The void has shaped us, changed us"? "Endured an unexpected transformation"? "The sin'dorei have been transformed"? You do know that nothing that you quoted there says anything whatsoever about the purple skin being just a cosmetic effect or not?

dude, they become a new race of elves, due to their transformation, i love how even with those quotes you will twist to show its not vallid

And, I'll remind you once again: the fact void elves are getting fair skin options in Shadowlands practically proves that 'purple skin' is nothing but a cosmetic change.

its about their bodies, not just skin, yes

Prove it. With specific statements, not vague mentions. Because, as far as I know, the purple skin is just cosmetic.

like its proved, nothing for you is enough

But you keep going, don't you? I'm not "forcing" you to respond to me. Again, don't blame me for your apparent inability to let go and move on.

i mean, you quoted me first, its only fair for you to let it go first?

So, in other words, it's because of your agenda. You claimed there wasn't a single example of races existing in both factions with no differences, and you were proven wrong. You don't get to disqualify the existing example as "the exception" when you're talking about "single instances".

cutting to the chase, cause you are almost choking in those twisting

if pandarens are not considered two different races "for gameplay purposes" like you like to claim, then blood/high elves are not either, end.

[Ardenaso]

What culture differences? Actually what culture? Aside the Helfs having some unexplained hatred towards the belfs that has no valid reason and it crossed the idiocy line

the shark festival in Dalaran is actually a very good tradition - it just needs a live sacrifice that needs to be wearing red

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High elves: "Look, I'm sorry, but we cannot support this. This is mana vampirism, and it goes against what we believe."
Blood elves: "Oh, you don't agree with us? THEN GET THE FUCK OUT OF YOUR OWN HOMES!! FOREVER!! I HOPE YOU ALL DIE IN THE PLAGUELANDS!!!"

Yeah. 'unexplained hatred for no reason', indeed.

To be fair, huge factor in their exile is that they hoarded most of the mana crystals away from the Blood Elves

[Ielenia]

To be fair, huge factor in their exile is that they hoarded most of the mana crystals away from the Blood Elves

Did they? Really? Where is that stated? That's news to me.

[Ignaz]

DH are basically half-demons and half- elves, still they are the same "race", if you remove the energy its prob that the H lost powers

that's an assumption not a fact. Proves that DH can be restored to its original Belves form by removing energy and I will agree with you.

because they are still in the same faction

You are contradicting yourself. Your initial point was that not because you belong to a faction, it automatically makes you a different race. Now you take that idea for yourself.

are just a class

for game purposes.

and are mostly the same race with demon powers

Nope. Not even by Blizzard standards.

i do know there is lots of contradictions, and blizzard have the final say, we can only do is try to find meaning/logic in blizzard soup

Agree. but not in absolute terms of real science.
If the developers say that all stormwind humans have three livers, that's fine by game standards (because Blizzard said so) and it's real for the wow universe, but it's something you can't prove with real science, just lore can prove it.

But like i said, helves did interacted with fel magic, and there can be belves who didn't, and the mere interaction could not be enough

I don't know why I have to repeat the same thing, but I'll do it again: Helves (who never interacted with fel magic) and Belves (who did interact and had subtle mutations). Can be considered different races of the same species if we use real life science.

and we already have blizzard saying it didn't, its like low lv of radiation who don't change things

Could you show me the source?

because it can revert, and it later is changed in other colors

As far as I understand it, it does not reverse, it mutates again depending on the magic with which the elf interacts.

like i said, not relevant, and definitely not relevant now tht they got even black tones

That makes it even more relevant! where are the black helves?

an that was what i said, i see no reason for you highlight that

Because that's my whole point. It is what I have been telling you from the beginning and for some reason you change your mind in the following comments.

but related, others aren't

that's a fallacy. The fact that they are relatives does not mean that they are of the same species (therefore of the same race) and not because others do not have that similarity, that would take away the ability to mix and procreate others who do have that similarity. They are still different species and that shows that different species with certain similarities can breed.

not rly

why? Genes don't make you stronger, physical conditioning does.

it also have a big factor of it

but genes are not responsible for everything. The environment plays a massive role (even greater in some cases) than genetic inheritance. in fact, genetic inheritance is constantly modified by the environment

indeed

I am glad that we agree on something.

[Syegfryed]

that's an assumption not a fact. Proves that DH can be restored to its original Belves form by removing energy and I will agree with you.

i said prob, we have example of beings with fel energies reverting after the energy is lift, Gul'dan in nighthold, Grom in WC3, that warlock in the green fire quest

Your initial point was that not because you belong to a faction, it automatically makes you a different race

and that is true

Now you take that idea for yourself.

im implying that is ok to put more taurens in the same faction, or more dwarves, the problem is crossing factions with no differences, nightborne by example,a re a completely new race, not just crack-head night elves

Agree. but not in absolute terms of real science.
If the developers say that all stormwind humans have three livers, that's fine by game standards (because Blizzard said so) and it's real for the wow universe, but it's something you can't prove with real science, just lore can prove it.

sure, but they didn't that yet, they said for sure, Belves and helves are the same race, biologically and all, and we can prove that with they having the same features, and their separation being just 7-10 years agora, not even enough for one generation to appear.

in time, i believe they could grow apart and become different races, i mostly believe half elves will be a thing since high elves will go extinct trading blood with humans

I don't know why I have to repeat the same thing, but I'll do it again: Helves (who never interacted with fel magic) and Belves (who did interact and had subtle mutations). Can be considered different races of the same species if we use real life science.

And like i said, their interactions is too little to consider that, and its irrelevant when you have blood elves who also never interacted with fel magic, and high elves who did, that is not a real separation between the groups, i would like that, i find fel infused elves way cooler, but tis not the route blizzard took, Blood elves are essentially high elves but edgy

Could you show me the source?

in the manual guide it stated that blood elves and high elves are the same race biologically

As far as I understand it, it does not reverse, it mutates again depending on the magic with which the elf interacts.

it does, its in one of the Q&A about asking if it will reverse, and they said with time, thats because it didn't change then permanently, its just a reaction of energy, elves eyes glow based on magic, if they use arcane? blue, light? gold, there is veressa using an Naga artifact with purple arcane energy, her eyes glow purple, fel is more volatile and chaotic, just by being nearby your eyes glow

That makes it even more relevant! where are the black helves?

by blizzard reason? they always existed

that's a fallacy. The fact that they are relatives does not mean that they are of the same species

and i didn't say they are the same, i said they are related in an evolutionary line that made that possible, totally different from races of the space

why? Genes don't make you stronger, physical conditioning does.

couple of genes would give you predisposition in determinate area, is common to say "people x" have better genetic than "Y" in determinate activity

but genes are not responsible for everything. The environment plays a massive role (even greater in some cases) than genetic inheritance. in fact, genetic inheritance is constantly modified by the environment

i didn't said its the bigger factor or responsible for everything, i said that in everything, they are also a factor, minor or greater they are still there, making things possible

I am glad that we agree on something.

like i said, with everything already, i just don't want void elves have everything blood elves have(paladins and all other customs), neither want void elves became essentially 2 playable races, the rest is fair game

[Evilfish]

Because what basically amounts to a death sentence to either a painful, slow death, or a quick, horrific death is totally not a reason to despite those that condemned them. And such "comrades" they are, to do that to their peers, eh?


Apples and oranges. When the high elves were banished the night elves, they were not in a position of weakness and suffering, and the banishment from the night elves did not basically spell doom to the high elves.

It's really not. Not to the ridiculous, cartoonish degree of hate the alliance helfs have for the blood elves who despite all the moronic hate and acts of violence they have been constantly receiving from the alliance helfs have been reasonable and forgiving. All for what? The crime of draining the life out of woodland creatures they used to cook anyway. No, that was too much for them, so the only alternative was running to the alliance and taking on their defining status - the human's elf girlfriend status. Well the belfs survived and thrived, making the effort to give their hateful comrades the chance to return to the city they were banished from. And yet, the helfs are as hateful as they were before.

The alliance helfs are a bad joke.

[Lorca]

"Laziness". Such a convenient answer, isn't it? And no, I don't call the Alliance-aligned thalassian elves "high elves" to differentiate them. I call them "high elves" because they're called high elves.

Do you know about the Occam's razor theory? Two different groups. They feel different from each other and want to differentiate themselves. They call themselves differently. Blizzard could have EASILY added those two other words to the code and it would work even better as it would highlight that these two groups are different groups, even if they are the same race. Why don't they do it? It's highly probable that due to laziness. The same laziness that makes them not change the quest text when they refer to newer playable races in older quests, like a Zandalari or a Kul Tiran being called outlander, mainlander and the likes.

It's becoming boring from you to keep answering like this. You don't even understand what you read. Or you just lie. When did I say that you call the "Alliance-aligned thalassian elves "high elves" to differentiate them"? I said they themselves do. I said you do it because you want to be precise only in that case because it interests you as part as your "high-elder" campaign. Also, again, why are they called High Elves and why do they call that themselves? Pragmatically, for the same reason the Pandaren groups do call their different groups differently. Like it or not, that's it. The rest of your answers at this point are just blablaing, missunderstanding whatever I write and lying, so please stop embarrassing yourself.

Read above. And how do you know I don't call the pandaren by their groups? I call them by their groups when I want to speak specifically about them. I say 'pandaren' when I'm talking about all pandaren. And you're wrong about the mag'har orcs. I don't call them just 'orcs'.

Because you yourself heavily implied that in all your answers. You said you call them as the "game calls them", and that you called them Pandaren. At any point did you say that you call them anything different to Pandaren until this very post, when you were already cornered. I also show you and point you that the game "calls" them not only Pandaren but also Huojin Pandaren and Tushui Pandaren in the reputation text of both groups, which was your only example to show how the "game called" the Alliance aligned Thalassian Elves High Elves. You even wrote the name of the Tushui wrong. Probably you didn't even know how both groups were called. Most probably, you just call them "Alliance Pandaren" and "Horde Pandaren".

And again, just please, stop lying and putting word in my mouth. I didn't say anything about how you call the Mag'har Orcs. The first time I mentioned them was to make an analogy in the use of the naming between the groups that belong to their race and the case of both groups of the Pandaren and Thalassian Elves. Didn't say anything about how you call them.

[BaumanKing]

Helf haters are still here? Why? What are they trying to prove now?

[Ignaz]

i said prob

exactly

we have example of beings with fel energies reverting after the energy is lift, Gul'dan in nighthold, Grom in WC3, that warlock in the green fire quest

Those are not coherent cases and they have nothing to do with the transformation of the DH Belves. Give me a proof of DH cases that have reversed their condition to that of a common Belf or Nelf

and that is true

Then, why are you contradicting your point by saying they are still Belves just because they are in the horde when horns, scales and wings literally come out of their bodies?

im implying that is ok to put more taurens in the same faction, or more dwarves, the problem is crossing factions with no differences, nightborne by example,a re a completely new race, not just crack-head night elves

that happened with the nightborne and the Velves, the factions identity of which you speak was bulked and will continue to be bullied; not by Ielenia, Syegfryed or myself, but by the developers themselves.

Still, that is not the point. the point we are talking about is whether DH can be considered a race apart from ordinary Belves (even one that has interacted more than normal with fel magic) and observation decrees that they are (they have major mutations in their bodies and that's enough for Blizzard's standards of what it means to be a different '' race '' - it doesn't have to do with sexual reproduction for Blizzard) and they're put up as a mere class for game purposes only.

sure, but they didn't that yet, they said for sure, Belves and helves are the same race, biologically and all, and we can prove that with they having the same features, and their separation being just 7-10 years agora, not even enough for one generation to appear.

I repeat In a world where there are energies that can mutate you in a matter of seconds, the ability to inherit is irrelevant (as in the case of radiation in the real world)
and Blizzard can say that ''cows fly'', which does not mean that it is related to real world science nor can it be explained by it.

in time, i believe they could grow apart and become different races, i mostly believe half elves will be a thing since high elves will go extinct trading blood with humans

is a possibility, of course for Blizzard standards

And like i said, their interactions is too little to consider that, and its irrelevant when you have blood elves who also never interacted with fel magic, and high elves who did, that is not a real separation between the groups, i would like that, i find fel infused elves way cooler, but tis not the route blizzard took, Blood elves are essentially high elves but edgy

Although they are subtle mutations, they are still mutations and under observation, they can be considered divisive aspects between the Helves and the Belves (skin color is even inheritable).
And again, I'm not talking about the cases of Helves that interacted with fel energy or the Belves that didn't interact with fel energy. No seas tapado, as we say in my country

in the manual guide it stated that blood elves and high elves are the same race biologically

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about what you say Blizzard maintains that low levels of radiation with such energies are irrelevant even when they cause mutations (subtle or not).

it does, its in one of the Q&A about asking if it will reverse, and they said with time, thats because it didn't change then permanently, its just a reaction of energy, elves eyes glow based on magic, if they use arcane? blue, light? gold, there is veressa using an Naga artifact with purple arcane energy, her eyes glow purple, fel is more volatile and chaotic, just by being nearby your eyes glow

OK. Let's break down this paragraph so you understand that Blizzard's logic is very bulnerable when compared to real-world logic.

1) ''They said with time, thats because it didn't change then permanently, its just a reaction of energy''
So what is the original eye color with which you can prove that it reverts if you do not use those energies?
2) ''Elves eyes glow based on magic, if they use arcane? blue, light? gold''
So, if you are an elf and you use fel magic, your eyes change to green, and understanding the strong connection with the arcane magic and the light that the Thalassian elves have; that makes your eyes instantly change color (mutate again) by stopping interacting with fel energy and interacting with another more influential magic at the moment. Wouldn't that mean it is a matter of re-mutation and not restoration?

by blizzard reason? they always existed

prove to me that they always existed and that it is not just an exercise of "inclusion" for the new expansion. As far as I know, Thalassian elves in wow were never black.

and i didn't say they are the same, i said they are related in an evolutionary line that made that possible

NVM. that cannot denigrate the ability they have just because others do not have it

totally different from races of the space

another example of Blizzard science (not real world science). That's why you can't mix them,

couple of genes would give you predisposition in determinate area

This is not how genes work. A combination of genes is more likely to predispose you to weakness and limiting genetic diseases.
in those types of tasks, the environment and the correct execution of the exercise are more relevant.

is common to say "people x" have better genetic than "Y" in determinate activity

that's a vulgar expression used to say that someone is better at something without taking meritocracy into account, replacing it with a gift from nature

i didn't said its the bigger factor or responsible for everything, i said that in everything, they are also a factor, minor or greater they are still there, making things possible

not always, if you and I were brothers; I am going to the gym and you are not, I am going to increase my muscle mass in proportion and you are going to increase your fat mass (be thin or fat - because I speak of proportion). That has nothing to do with genes but with activity.

like i said, with everything already, i just don't want void elves have everything blood elves have(paladins and all other customs), neither want void elves became essentially 2 playable races, the rest is fair game

That's a problem you have to discuss with Blizzard not me. like those who want the characteristics of the Belves for the Velves they have to ask for them so that Blizzar considers them (he who does not cry does not drink milk)