Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Magnagarde]

If there are asian High Elves I'm sure there are other cultures mixed in aswell, you should be abit more open minded.

This has got nothing to do with being open-minded. This is about the Silver Covenant specifically and concepts in regards to it, as the thread implies. You can conceptualize anything, as long as it makes sense. Black high elves of the Silver Covenant make absolutely no sense. This is like talking about quadripedal centaur humans from Stormwind loyal to Lord Hoofmane; very open-minded, yet completely non-sensical.

The Silver Covenant are the same high elves as the ones that all high elves of Quel'thalas were before the Scourge ravaged the kingdom. The only difference is that these live in Dalaran, not Silvermoon. As such, these are pale-skinned, arcane-based elves that have the occasional paladin and warlock. Anything beyond this is no longer the Silver Covenant.

[FlubberPuddy]

Nicely written. Summs up pretty well what I think currently about some of these very annoying guys. And it shows pretty easyly that their agenda is not to protect anything or so, they are just making up stuff and once you say: "Fine I respect that, we will change that" they suddenly come up with other things to continue spitting into peoples soup. So that is their whole point. There is no argumentation, they just want to fuck up people.

For real, don't even understand some of the anti-crowd anymore "they look like half-elves now so it's okay to add them if you want to say they're half-elves"

They seem so triggered by the name "High Elf" I cannot imagine, truly, I can't understand that bit lmao.

Half-elves aren't even spoken much about in the narrative, so we know the High Elf population on Alliance are vastly more numerous than Half-elves in the Militia and what not of the current game.

These models were made to placate the whiny babies crying about "you just want a Horde race!"

So what happens? Boom new model, looks different enough from Blood Elves and Void Elves and still the whining, "They look more like half-elves so if you want half-elves is okay" (ignoring all barely existent half-elf lore existing, but High Elves on Alliance with a plethora of Lore, NOPE can't have that! Makes no sense)

What a bunch of dingleberries

[Magnagarde]

As Duncan Jones said in many interviews Blizzard are very protective of their ip so if asian elves were not ok this guy in the movie would not have gotten the part don't you think?

I'm not dragging lore I'm just showing what Blizz find as acceptable in WoW and even though the movie was a flop I know many who enjoyed it, I truly wish they'd make a second but I know it will not happen.

The movie has its own, separate canon which is irrelevant to the lore of the franchise in terms of games and affiliated literature.

Seeing an asian high elf in a movie makes you think they find it acceptable in WoW? In addition to this, you then continue thinking black high elves should happen in WoW because there's an asian high elf in a movie that has no connection to WoW lore.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

This has got nothing to do with being open-minded. This is about the Silver Covenant specifically and concepts in regards to it, as the thread implies. You can conceptualize anything, as long as it makes sense. Black high elves of the Silver Covenant makes absolutely no sense.

The Silver Covenant are the same high elves as the ones that all high elves of Quel'thalas were before the Scourge ravaged the kingdom. The only difference is that these live in Dalaran, not Silvermoon. As such, these are pale-skinned, arcane-based elves that have the occasional paladin and warlock.

Only if you believe that "black elves" don't make sense on the first place, which would require us to unpack years of elven tropes on fantasy.

Dude, they are made up, they don't "have" to be one specific skin color.

That we haven't seen darker skin Elves doesn't mean they don't or can possibly exist. Is an aesthetic choice. Are you as vehement about Kul'tiran's body type?

It's hard to believe that it's 2k18 and people still want to die on the "elves should be white" hill.

[Magnagarde]

Only if you believe that "black elves" don't make sense on the first place, which would require us to unpack years of elven tropes on fantasy.

Dude, they are made up, they don't "have" to be one specific skin color.

That we haven't seen darker skin Elves doesn't mean they don't or can possibly exist. Is an aesthetic choice. Are you as vehement about Kul'tiran's body type?

It's hard to believe that it's 2k18 and people still want to die on the "elves should be white" hill.

You're talking about the Silver Covenant, a group of high elves that is highly fleshed out. All about the high elves is already known and their lore is crystal clear; black high elves are not one of the things they have. Black high elves are a headcanon-based concept which bears no merit in terms of lore. They're inexistant.

Don't bring your social justice standards to a discussion about lore facts. This has got nothing to do with "the year is 2k18", but lore facts. If you want black high elves, then you don't want the Silver Covenant or any high elf whatsoever. You want a new breed of elves.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You're talking about the Silver Covenant, a group of high elves that is highly fleshed out. All about the high elves is already known and their lore is crystal clear; black high elves are not one of the things they have. Black high elves are a headcanon-based concept which bears no merit in terms of lore. They're inexistant.

Don't bring your social justice standards to a discussion about lore facts. This has got nothing to do with "the year is 2k18", but lore facts. If you want black high elves, then you don't want the Silver Covenant.

Be honest; would a retcon that said that Elves have a wider range of skin tones be a more egregious retcon than basically half of WoW's lore? It would literally change nothing beyond "and you can pick this dark skin!"

Look, I like to make concepts, I also believe that modern's fantasies tropes for elves are too limited by old as balls ideals. I'm just putting two of these interests together as what I'd like to see.

But if you for a second believe that elves having more skin tones is such a offensive lore transgression, that says a lot more about you than me.

[Magnagarde]

Be honest; would a retcon that said that Elves have a wider range of skin tones be a more egregious retcon than basically half of WoW's lore? It would literally change nothing beyond "and you can pick this dark skin!"

Look, I like to make concepts, I also believe that modern's fantasies tropes for elves are too limited by old as balls ideals. I'm just putting two of these interests together as what I'd like to see.

But if you for a second believe that elves having more skin tones is such a offensive lore transgression, that says a lot more about you than me.

Yeah, it does say a lot more about me than you; it says I actually stick to the lore when discussing possible additions. My arguements are with the lore, not my calendar and "2k18".

If you want playable Silver Covenant high elves(which I'm not against), then you should at least look credible and senseful in your demands/concepts.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yeah, it does say a lot more about me than you; it says I actually stick to the lore when discussing possible additions. My arguements are with the lore, not my calendar and "2k18".

Don't know what to tell you my good dude, for me some concerns go beyond the lore of WoW itself and are about the concept about fantasy tropes in general.

And yet, to believe that the tropes and lore and changes within that lore on WoW itself aren't affected or informed by the context of the world we live, is profoundly naive.

You can discuss within the confines of only WoW lore, or you can discuss the lore within the context of fantasy and its issues as a genre. It is clear we are both interested in different approaches for this issue, and it's evident you do not want to contextualize further than your limited scope.

And that's fine by me. But it proves how futile this engagement would be.

[Azrathel]

Remember to go fill out the Destiny of the Quel'Dorei survey. Even if you don't want them as a playable race. The polls lets you say that you don't want them. Let's get as many answers as we can, and get numbers that are representative.

[Magnagarde]

Remember to go fill out the Destiny of the Quel'Dorei survey. Even if you don't want them as a playable race. The polls lets you say that you don't want them. Let's get as many answers as we can, and get numbers that are representative.

That's bound to go well no doubt. With the amount of hate being thrown between the various groups, this whole vote will be all about spite.

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You can discuss within the confines of only WoW lore, or you can discuss the lore within the context of fantasy and its issues as a genre. It is clear we are both interested in different approaches for this issue, and it's evident you do not want to contextualize further than your limited scope.

Lore can't be discussed from the "context of fantasy" because lore is just that; lore. This is Warcraft lore. It is known and defined. Everything else is headcanon conceptualization which I have got nothing against, as long as someone doesn't come up and try to look representable by lore standards and pretend their concept makes sense from the standpoint of the universe that is being discussed.

The fact that you consider there to be some issues within the genre is once again something completely subjective. You can be subjective about it, have your own ideas and concepts, but you can't pass them off for lore and in conjuction to lore, as something senseful. You actively want to push forth a concept that regards an established group within the lore and change it with your concept that makes absolutely no sense in regards to what we have now and the way it was known for decades. In this context, we're both talking about lore, but you're the one suggesting that Blizzard should take a dump on what lore they've already established in favour of "2k18".

Terminator cyborg ogres that time-travelled thanks to their mages to a steampunk world and are now invading Azeroth are an ogre concept I've just made up. Doesn't make it more senseful. It shatters the fantasy of ogres being dumb hulks, but it takes a dump on the Warcraft universe and its own ogres.

[Gurluas]

Remember to go fill out the Destiny of the Quel'Dorei survey. Even if you don't want them as a playable race. The polls lets you say that you don't want them. Let's get as many answers as we can, and get numbers that are representative.

I feel that often I disagreed with all options and wanted an "Others" for instance I want them to use Nightborne idle animations with the rest of the Blood elf animations.
Also Chronicles High elf architecture should be an option.



It's distinct from Belf architecture.
And Alleria is a completely unrealistic racial leader, as she's already the Void elf racial leader. Might as well add Anduin to that list if we're going with double racial leaders.

[Zorish]

I'm going to try to answer your provocations in disguise of doubt using a more accessible example for you.

hello mr victime nice (no) to meat you.

I wasn't even tried to "provoke" you. I just said - if you want your High elves - make them different. and i am quite agree with guy who suggested that you "high elves" will represent their "abandoned" lifestyle, without mana for their bodies. And no i am not talking about Withered state, but something between normal Blood elf and nightfallen will go very well. What i saw in your last "concept" are elves full of life, like they were sitting in the Gym, with mana crystals around and protein food without limits.
And about live in different place. Cool - so you suggest that big bunch of elves (let's say 2k) lived in dalaran for 2700 years? and nothing make you think that elves who lived there are either exiles, or "help" wich were sent by QT as part of Aliance to teach mages and let's say the swap every 50 years (good expirience for young elf, and they show that they care about their Aliance with humans). So any proof about how many "high elves" actually lived in Dalaran and HOW and WHY they live there? (are they exiles? teachers? political/military help? spies?) and how many of them RETURNED to QT after events with sunwell (before BC and after). Do you have common logic that some of so called "high elves" maybe returned to their home after cleansing of sunwell? or maybe some Blood elves go rogue and joined "Anti-horde" Veresa faction? Why i think so? Mr Sunchaser who were in the Sunwell during Quel'Delar quest. He was there to negotiate and who knows how many of his people returned to home after?

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I feel that often I disagreed with all options and wanted an "Others" for instance I want them to use Nightborne idle animations with the rest of the Blood elf animations.
Also Chronicles High elf architecture should be an option.

this "option" called silvermoon. Home of "high elves". And this is art from chronicles wich we all know can be more epic than ingame content (look on size of Stormwind city and it's cathedral) + outdated for 11 years models there. Wich weren't touched even during Cata events cause it's different server/code/wahtever from Actuall word.

[Deleted]

Remember to go fill out the Destiny of the Quel'Dorei survey. Even if you don't want them as a playable race. The polls lets you say that you don't want them. Let's get as many answers as we can, and get numbers that are representative.

25 pages and email requirements are a very big hurdle for a pull, I'd say.


For a racial leader we allways have Vereesa. But there might be others that are better. Having 3 Windrunners the leader of a race might be ... a bit much.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Terminator cyborg ogres that time-travelled thanks to their mages to a steampunk world and are now invading Azeroth are an ogre concept I've just made up. Doesn't make it more senseful. It shatters the fantasy of ogres being dumb hulks, but it takes a dump on the Warcraft universe and its own ogres.

Honestly if you think this is comparable to "Maybe there could be black elves" I can only laugh. Who would think that some elves having dark skin would be SO DISASTROUS FOR THE LORE.

Nah man, later days.

[Gurluas]

this "option" called silvermoon. Home of "high elves". And this is art from chronicles wich we all know can be more epic than ingame content (look on size of Stormwind city and it's cathedral) + outdated for 11 years models there. Wich weren't touched even during Cata events cause it's different server/code/wahtever from Actuall word.

Look closely. It looks similar to Suramar/Azsuna Night elf architecture but with a bright warm color scheme and a sun on top of the buildings instead of a moon.
It'd definitely be a way to differentiate High elf architecture from the Belf one but without messing lore up.

[Sorrior]

The problem is that it is them literally repeating what they said they'd never do after the Draenei in BC. They said they wouldn't just plop a radical ret con on us or some race out of nowhere like that again,

And yet, here we are with Void Elves.

Hey i WANT high elves and hate how retcon happy they are. I just was saying what MIGHT have been running through their mind.

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Boy, the "white" supremacists are out in force trying to stop High Elves from having any skin tone but MILK aren't they?

I for one would love to play a dark-skinned High Elf. Especially if they get shaman: then I will have to make a resto one named Katara.

[derpkitteh]

Boy, the "white" supremacists are out in force trying to stop High Elves from having any skin tone but MILK aren't they?

I for one would love to play a dark-skinned High Elf. Especially if they get shaman: then I will have to make a resto one named Katara.

y'all need to fuck off. there are no dark skinned elves in wow(not counting night elves and nightborne).

humans have the diversity in their people, elves do NOT.

[Zorish]

Look closely. It looks similar to Suramar/Azsuna Night elf architecture but with a bright warm color scheme and a sun on top of the buildings instead of a moon.
It'd definitely be a way to differentiate High elf architecture from the Belf one but without messing lore up.

First of all you already "messed" up the lore by thinking that "High elf" architecture are different from Blood elf. Second - this is major city and by the look of it - (checked my tome, yeah mistaken first) it's from chronicles tome 1. 10k years ago (chapter IV - a new world). when future "High elf" were part of Night elf Kingdom and were called Highborne. It's totaly suramar architecture. so you want rob not only Blood elves of their model, but NB/NE or their architecture with no reason?
and by no reason i mean - that this is from 10k year AGO! after that your so called "High elves" creates Quel'thalas. WIth their own architecture! wich we see now. You still not get it that your "High elves" are not distinct from Blood elves, because they are "past" of the Blood elves. AND NOT DISTANT PAST, BUT ~20-30 years! Withing a same generation! Same you hear?! LTT, Liadrin, Veresa and others are part of the same generation of "High elves". There is no way to make meaningfull difference! What are you trying to achieve - artificial difference without solid lore support, for your personal gain. Heck. even void elves armor still resemble Blood elven one (not fully yes, but still resemble this elvish design)

[Obelisk Kai]

At last, a dedicated megathread. Now this can finally be contained in one place.

In regards to the recent discussion of the past day about High Elven skintone, I have this to say.

I have no problems about new skin tones being added to thalassians that match real world skin tones. Absolutely none. It would be a heck of a retcon, but a retcon I can accept. I think it's incredibly unlikely to happen, but it wouldn't be a retcon I'd argue against. There can be no in game explanation for why this is happening now though, people would understand it was a retcon if it happened and there would be no elegance to it.

However, what I MASSIVELY object to is this notion that such a spectrum of skin tones be added to High Elves as a means of differentiating them from Blood Elves because that means the pure white Blood Elves exiled everyone with a darker skin tone than themselves, and that everyone with a darker skin tone set themselves up to stand against the state and become traitors.

The idea that we give thalassian elves a range of skin tones more reflective of Human diversity, and then write the plot in such a way that they all got kicked out of Silvermoon by the Blood Elves has unfortunate real world parallels I am sure Blizzard will not want to emulate.
In the incredibly unlikely event that Blizzard decides to do this it would be as a Blood Elf option, as Blood Elves are High Elves and just as a political opinion doesn't make you a different race, it also doesn't magically change your skin colour.

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Boy, the "white" supremacists are out in force trying to stop High Elves from having any skin tone but MILK aren't they?

I for one would love to play a dark-skinned High Elf. Especially if they get shaman: then I will have to make a resto one named Katara.

I'm sorry, but are you familiar with the Unofficial Void Elf threads from the official forums? That was a long series of threads created by DeicideUH, who I think is the Alamara behind the infamous manifesto, and it was basically a long thread asking for 'normal' skin tones on a Void Elf so that they wouldn't have to use the darker skin tones provided to them.

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I feel that often I disagreed with all options and wanted an "Others" for instance I want them to use Nightborne idle animations with the rest of the Blood elf animations.
Also Chronicles High elf architecture should be an option.



It's distinct from Belf architecture.
And Alleria is a completely unrealistic racial leader, as she's already the Void elf racial leader. Might as well add Anduin to that list if we're going with double racial leaders.

That is Blood Elven architecture, because High Elven architecture and Blood Elven architecture are the same. Because they are the same people.

It is more ornate because the artist isn't painting the game, he or she is painting an elven city without the constraints of the game world or artist development time.

I mean look at the buildings in the centre of the lake, that's a typical Blood Elven dome structure you see all over Quel'thalas.

So no, this is not a unique art style for the Alliance High Elves to copy.