1. #19421
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Everyone's just demanding more and more and I still just want my nightborne to squint. >.< You're not the only elves, damn it!
    Nightborne need to look less like night elves and more like the nightborne npcs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Nightborne will probably get some love during the night elf pass.
    Do you have some insider information about that?
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  2. #19422
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No. It was not a "foil". That is the request. We want high elves as a playable allied race. The request was never about "we want high elves as customization options".
    Which is why the mass majority of helfers are going. "yes this is what we wanted."?
    Perhaps it does not apply to you, but it is a contradiction to say "we wanted high elves but we're fine with taking their looks instead!".


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's very intellectually dishonest to say we are lying when we say we want high elves as a playable allied race simply because some are accepting the upcoming void elf customization options as a compromise.
    Oh please, void elves in their original look was the compromise. You had everything but the skin tone.
    Now you have the skin tone...making them the exact same as blood elves design wise.
    So...what do blood elves get in return?
    A compromise means you get alittle of what you want, not everything, and this was the everything. It is flat out dishonest to repeatedly claim this to be a compromise. So...how am I being intellectually dishonest when you admit to my claim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Same applies to you. If you want to claim that blood elves are "losing" something, you have to show what they are losing, and why do you think they're losing it.
    Is this a joke? I've brought this up a few times now.

    What was the difference between a blood elf and a void elf prior to this change? Skin tones
    What is the difference after? Nothing.

    And if you're going to go "well void elves have blue hair!", blood elves had them before hand. hell they had blue eyes too.
    So...seems like there isn't a reason to choose a blood elf.

    The best part is everytime I mention this, there isn't a counter.
    Last edited by Broflake; 2020-06-02 at 03:31 AM.

  3. #19423
    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    Do you have some insider information about that?
    I said "probably". It reasonable that allied races that share a model with a base race may be benefitted when the base model gets its upgrades.

    Like it just happened with blood elves/void elves.
    Whatever...

  4. #19424
    Old God Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    I'm sorry, but with high elves and blood elves in Telegrus Rift, that wasn't really the case. Now that's even less the case.

    Right now void elf is another term for "Alliance Thalassian elves".
    void elf is either a blood elf or high elf mutated by the void, no matter what, a new race of elves, and you can call and imagine what you like, but is what they are

    Blizzard gave you an iconic Alliance race 13 years ago. We can't undo that. But at least we can fix that, and Blizzard decided to do so.
    the "iconic" alliance race, left the alliance in the very game you think they were iconic, so no.

    And its already "fixed", since people only care about looks, get all the blood elf options and thematic is nonsensical

    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Yup this post just shows despite the developers saying these are the same races, you simply can't accept it.
    they said kul'tirans were another breed of humans, and they are indeed, completely different from each other, unlike elves who are the same, im so sorry you don't want to accept that because of your agenda but is the reality.

    Being "human" don't make you be the same thing, same as being "orc" or "dwarf" don't make you the exact same orc or dwarf
    Probably because you're more concerned with denying options from others regardless of anything else.
    don't try to flip the coin here with the tentative of appeal to pity, people are more concerned in getting everything blood elves have, this isn't "denying options from others regardless, you already got a lot of options that was exactly what people wanted, now they are demanding more and more

    That's ok though, seeing as High Elves are happening means the developers don't share your view and that's enough for me to disregard whatever you're saying.
    void elves with blood/high elf skin color is happening, blood/high elves changing to become void elf is happening, thats excellent, but lets not pretend they are just high elves with shadow-priest like powers, and asking the entirety of blood elves thing, like paladins, their hairstyle and changing their racials is completely nonsensical.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2020-06-02 at 03:54 AM.

  5. #19425
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Nightborne will probably get some love during the night elf pass.
    That would be nice. Fixed model?

  6. #19426
    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    Which is why the mass majority of helfers are going. "yes this is what we wanted."?
    Are they? Just because they're saying some people are accepting the compromise doesn't mean "this is what they wanted".

    Oh please, void elves in their original look was the compromise. You had everything but the skin tone.
    They were not. It's only a compromise in the way of Blizzard saying "how about I give you exactly none of what you're asking, and you guys shut up?" We didn't have the lore. Or the "high elf" name. The void elf allied race gave the pro-high-elf community nothing they asked about.

    Now you have the skin tone...making them the exact same as blood elves design wise.
    The model design is meaningless. If it was, there wouldn't be so many discussion in this mega-thread about ways to make the high elves look different from blood elves. It's about the lore.

    So...what do blood elves get in return?
    In return of what? They're losing absolutely nothing to get something "in return".

    A compromise means you get alittle of what you want, not everything, and this was the everything. It is flat out dishonest to repeatedly claim this to be a compromise. So...how am I being intellectually dishonest when you admit to my claim?
    Because it's not a compromise, since the void elves gave absolutely nothing of what was being asked for.

    Is this a joke? I've brought this up a few times now.

    What was the difference between a blood elf and a void elf prior to this change? Skin tones
    What is the difference after? Nothing.

    And if you're going to go "well void elves have blue hair!", blood elves had them before hand. hell they had blue eyes too.
    So...seems like there isn't a reason to choose a blood elf.

    The best part is everytime I mention this, there isn't a counter.
    So they now can have similar skin colors. Alright. So what? I'll repeat: what are the blood elves losing? No skin color is being removed from the blood elves, as far as I know.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  7. #19427
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    I said "probably". It reasonable that allied races that share a model with a base race may be benefitted when the base model gets its upgrades.

    Like it just happened with blood elves/void elves.
    I mean that's easy for you to say but we have no proof there is going to be any equity for other people who want more for their favorite races which have been clearly neglected. Nice of you to be so generous.
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  8. #19428
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the "iconic" alliance race, left the alliance in the very game you think they were iconic, so no.
    And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.

    And its already "fixed", since people only care about looks, get all the blood elf options and thematic is nonsensical
    This is objectively false. If "looks were only what people cared about", there wouldn't be a single peep about making high elves look different from blood elves in this thread.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  9. #19429
    Old God Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.
    they never were an iconic race in the vast majority of wow, they barely are a sidekick race, appearing in some instances

    This is objectively false. If "looks were only what people cared about", there wouldn't be a single peep about making high elves look different from blood elves in this thread.
    yeah look different with the same fair skin color, sure.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2020-06-02 at 04:04 AM.

  10. #19430
    Keyboard Turner Sarallesta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    Is this a joke? I've brought this up a few times now.

    What was the difference between a blood elf and a void elf prior to this change? Skin tones
    What is the difference after? Nothing.

    And if you're going to go "well void elves have blue hair!", blood elves had them before hand. hell they had blue eyes too.
    So...seems like there isn't a reason to choose a blood elf.

    The best part is everytime I mention this, there isn't a counter.
    Blood Elves skin colours are unique only to the Horde, but they are not unique to the entire game with Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes also having those skin options. On top of that, the blue ares are also not unique to the Blood Elves, considering it has been shown on Alliance High Elven NPC's, which the exception of a couple, but even with those, there eyes are like the old DK's eyes.

  11. #19431
    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    That would be nice. Fixed model?
    I'm expecting at least new textures (skins, eyes, hair colors).
    Whatever...

  12. #19432
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    I said "probably". It reasonable that allied races that share a model with a base race may be benefitted when the base model gets its upgrades.

    Like it just happened with blood elves/void elves.
    True but they have a bit more work to do. Hopefully beta brings up stuff

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.
    3 patches worth in which they had a storyline through the silver covenant.
    The rest? Quest givers.
    Does this mean humans are major for horde too since they occassionally help in WoW?

  13. #19433
    Mechagnome Molvonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.
    They really weren't, though.

    A vast majority of the high elves that survived Arthas became renamed (rebranded?) themselves as Blood Elves. Sure, some of the actual High Elves remained as they were, which you could see randomly throughout Classic Azeroth. There weren't many. Assuming the information is correct, High Elves make up only 1% of the former population, while Blood Elves made up 9%. These numbers have likely changed a bit with the creation of the Void Elves (which some High and Blood Elves became), but on top of the fact that Blood Elves have repeatedly made appearances as major stakeholders of the Horde's future (with their numbers going up as an assumption), the only real showcase for High Elves was the Silver Covenant.

    Which only showed up in LK-era Dalaran and had next to no real impact on any part of the storyline, anywhere.

    There was also the singular outpost in Terrokar in BC. But I don't recall seeing them with any proper influence in any expansion beyond LK.

    They really haven't been a part of the Alliance in any justifiable manner.

    Honestly though, ya'll (the High Elf super-advocates/extremists) can fight the good fight, but with the advent of all the customization options Void Elves are getting to look more like High Elves, the chances of getting a proper Allied Race as next to nothing. 0.00001%?

    The chances they'll have any impact in Shadowlands is about as much -- i mean, beyond seeing a bunch of High Elf ghosts wandering about, but even the NPCs they've listed off didn't have any notable High Elf characters.... (I mean, technically Kael'thas could be considered a High Elf?)
    Just because I advocate your ability to play and enjoy WoW Classic doesn't mean I think it'll be successful.

    "Being racist is not wrong. It is a lifestyle that you don't approve of. Being racist isn't even illegal, and it never will be." ~Jonnusthegreat

  14. #19434
    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    I mean that's easy for you to say but we have no proof there is going to be any equity for other people who want more for their favorite races which have been clearly neglected. Nice of you to be so generous.
    I have a feeling that, at the very least, the first four allied races are getting some love for Shadowlands launch. We've already seen that Void Elves are getting some, and there's no reason the other three couldn't "inherit" whatever goodies their parent races get so long as it makes sense for the race. I wouldn't expect the Nightborne to get the body markings but I have a pretty strong suspicion they are going to get a bunch of the Night Elf skin tones. I can only hope that they also get some options to make them look closer to their NPCs as well.

    Just allowing the first four to inherit things from their parent races is an easy win for Blizzard because it requires very little effort on their part to do and you know that Blizzard (like any other business) likes to get a lot of return for very little investment. :P
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2020-06-02 at 04:28 AM.

  15. #19435
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Are they? Just because they're saying some people are accepting the compromise doesn't mean "this is what they wanted".
    That is the definition of a compromise.
    If a compromise gives you exactly what you wanted, then it isn't a compromise. That is what compromise means. When you talk salt with the sugar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    They were not. It's only a compromise in the way of Blizzard saying "how about I give you exactly none of what you're asking, and you guys shut up?" We didn't have the lore. Or the "high elf" name. The void elf allied race gave the pro-high-elf community nothing they asked about.
    I beg to differ, because it only took a color change to make you, and several other helfers to begin clapping their hands with approval and completely forgetting to have them as a separate AR.
    Like...please, you can't keep that up when your actions say otherwise.
    You got quite a bit, your denial of it doesn't mean much, but hey, it just goes to show.
    when you give a mouse a cookie
    First void elves, now skins, and now people asking for void elf paladins and silvermoon as a base.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The model design is meaningless.
    To you? Maybe.
    Objectively? It means quite a bit. The model is the exact same as the blood elf, separated only by color. So the model may not matter to you, but color does?
    That is insightful
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    If it was, there wouldn't be so many discussion in this mega-thread about ways to make the high elves look different from blood elves. It's about the lore.
    No it isn't, because if it was about lore you wouldn't suggest ways of making high elves, the exact same people from the same region separated by only a decade of time, look different from blood elves.
    That isn't respecting lore, that is the opposite.
    Its like people who thank a McDonalds worker for their meal but doesn't believe in them making a livable wage. You were in it for looks.
    Your joy with a simply skin color change is indicative of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    In return of what? They're losing absolutely nothing to get something "in return".
    Its like you read, but you ignore it.
    Void elves have void theme and blood/high elf theme.
    Blood elves have blood elf theme, and no other theme.
    So yeah, what do they get in return?
    This is simply math.
    1+? = 2
    Blood elves need the 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Because it's not a compromise, since the void elves gave absolutely nothing of what was being asked for.
    That is the definition of a compromise where you dont get everything you want. Sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post

    So they now can have similar skin colors. Alright. So what? I'll repeat: what are the blood elves losing? No skin color is being removed from the blood elves, as far as I know.
    Honestly dude, you're being incredibly obtuse. Blood elves literally lost a theme to void elves. You don't need to remove something for it to be lost. If you can't have an honest discussion, then itrs better for you to just say.

    "I dont care that i look the exact same as a blood elf. Thats what I wanted."

  16. #19436
    In fairness I'd wouldn't say that Void Elves will have the Blood Elf theme, only the Void Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme.

    While Blood Elves still have the Blood Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme. I'm also holding out hope for the San'layn/Dark Ranger customization for those themes as well.

    Also... how does one "lose" a theme? I can see how one can "share" a theme, but I don't see Blood Elves "losing" anything.

  17. #19437
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I have a feeling that, at the very least, the first four allied races are getting some love for Shadowlands launch. We've already seen that Void Elves are getting some, and there's no reason the other three couldn't "inherit" whatever goodies their parent races get so long as it makes sense for the race. I wouldn't expect the Nightborne to get the body markings but I have a pretty strong suspicion they are going to get a bunch of the Night Elf skin tones. I can only hope that they also get some options to make them look closer to their NPCs as well.

    Just allowing the first four to inherit things from their parent races is an easy win for Blizzard because it requires very little effort on their part to do and you know that Blizzard (like any other business) likes to get a lot of return for very little investment. :P
    With absolutely no proof or evidence you feel free to share this feeling? It's kind of sad because it just comes off as insensitivity to the people who love the races they play and have been given little attention.

    Also I wasn't addressing you but another person.
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  18. #19438
    Mechagnome Molvonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    With absolutely no proof or evidence you feel free to share this feeling? It's kind of sad because it just comes off as insensitivity to the people who love the races they play and have been given little attention.

    Also I wasn't addressing you but another person.
    I don't understand your problem.

    We're allowed to post our opinions and feelings. They specifically stated 'I have a feeling', which is a disclaimer. You're acting like it's an attack on you 'and the people who love the races'. Like, how thin exactly is your skin?
    Just because I advocate your ability to play and enjoy WoW Classic doesn't mean I think it'll be successful.

    "Being racist is not wrong. It is a lifestyle that you don't approve of. Being racist isn't even illegal, and it never will be." ~Jonnusthegreat

  19. #19439
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    In fairness I'd wouldn't say that Void Elves will have the Blood Elf theme, only the Void Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme.

    While Blood Elves still have the Blood Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme. I'm also holding out hope for the San'layn/Dark Ranger customization for those themes as well.

    Also... how does one "lose" a theme? I can see how one can "share" a theme, but I don't see Blood Elves "losing" anything.
    The blood elf theme has been pushed as being the high elf theme. The only thing that was ever missing was the blue eyes which was given to them. So it wasn't as if they gained that theme recently. They had it since TBC.
    The problem is the void elf change means they can play a void theme OR a high elf theme.

    So now, its a 2 to 1 situation.
    Simply because they don't bring anything design wise that is unique to themselves that separates them from those on the alliance. It is why MMOs almost never share races, not even skin colors, because aesthetics are such a powerful facet that it affects the way the game is perceived.

    So now, you have blood elves who...offer paladins. Which you can get thorugh zandalari/tauren as well. That's about it though, and Paladins aren't even a necessary or wanted class.
    Which velfers (because lets be real they never cared for high elves just the skins) also want.


    So...if a void elf gives me more than blood elves do? Why are blood elves even an option? Despite being the original option, they've become redundant and inferior.

  20. #19440
    Mechagnome Molvonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    The blood elf theme has been pushed as being the high elf theme. The only thing that was ever missing was the blue eyes which was given to them. So it wasn't as if they gained that theme recently. They had it since TBC.
    The problem is the void elf change means they can play a void theme OR a high elf theme.

    So now, its a 2 to 1 situation.
    Simply because they don't bring anything design wise that is unique to themselves that separates them from those on the alliance. It is why MMOs almost never share races, not even skin colors, because aesthetics are such a powerful facet that it affects the way the game is perceived.

    So now, you have blood elves who...offer paladins. Which you can get thorugh zandalari/tauren as well. That's about it though, and Paladins aren't even a necessary or wanted class.
    Which velfers (because lets be real they never cared for high elves just the skins) also want.


    So...if a void elf gives me more than blood elves do? Why are blood elves even an option? Despite being the original option, they've become redundant and inferior.
    There's way too much opinion in your post painted as fact to take seriously.

    No type of class is 'necessary'. You can tank as a warrior, guardian druid, vengeance demon hunter or blood death knight instead of a paladin.

    You can heal as (inserts list of healers). You can dps as (inserts list of dps).

    But to say they're unwanted is utterly untrue by any metric of definition.

    To say they're redundant and inferior is utterly untrue.

    If we're stating bias -- Blood Elf racials are superior to Void Elf racials.

    If you're trying to talk on behalf of high elves, you're doing a pretty bad job of it.

    If you're trying to talk on behalf of blood elves? You're doing a pretty bad job of it.

    So what exactly were you intending with this post?
    Just because I advocate your ability to play and enjoy WoW Classic doesn't mean I think it'll be successful.

    "Being racist is not wrong. It is a lifestyle that you don't approve of. Being racist isn't even illegal, and it never will be." ~Jonnusthegreat

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