Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

Not in a debate where you want to make your point.

this isn't rly a debate, we are just discussing things for giggles, cause most of things are already set in stone

That's why you can't use real life science to explain your fantasy game point, end.

and im saying that until proved otherwise by then, we can do that

No, our discussion started when you try to use scientific principles to try to shape your point about a fantasy world.
And demographically speaking, there is a difference between playable race and race (it's obvious).

to be fair, other people were discussing different principles of the "races" and "playable races", i was merely trying to bring a point about that not being the case in the elf dilemma

It does matter a lot. Mannerisms and expressions are an important part of identity. If you put a bag on the head of an iconic character and see him/her move, you will identify him/her, that is to identify a known pattern. Now put a bag on the head of a Belf, would you not identify him/her?

but our point of discussion in general here is not identifying is it? its about actual races, themes

A difference that you deny at the same time.

i didn't though

You can't because you would find a sea of contradictions

but you still can try, its what we always do, try to find some meaning and pattern

Then, show me the sources with which you can prove that since the beginning of Warcraft there were black Helves and it wasn't an inclusive Blizzard campaign for Shadowlands.

You sure think they will say "its just our inclusive campaign guys"? we had a Q&A recently saying those options are all lore friendly, and were things that already existed, they just didn't had the means to do it.

call it retcon or anything else, but is canon now

Reread what you write. Mutations are natural and are part of biology.

But that alone isn't a mutation, a tan isn't a mutation

I don't know if you understand the scale you're talking about. When we talk about evolutionary processes, we are not talking about a single step (from one generation to another) we are talking about a very large number of steps that represent the mutations expressed both physiologically and phenotypically, and those changes take a long time and a harsh environment to express.

thats... what im talking about all of this is about trade of genes too

Sure genes do, but conditioning is the one in charge of accustoming the individual to work, not genes.

and like i said, there is genes to make conditioning better or easier

If you are morbidly obese, you will not transfer your fat to your children, but if you raise your children with the same habits that you live with (and that make you obese) they will end up as morbid obese

but if you have a couple of genes who give you predisposition to obesity, there is big chances for that to go to your children

Taking that utopian idea (nothing according to reality, since it is impossible for two individuals to do exactly the same exercises, in the same way and with the same starting range) and taking it proportionally, there should be no difference.

if one have predisposition and have a "better genetic" is more likely to have difference

[Amaterasu65]

Dunno why there's such a debate on black skinned elves. Even if there wasn't any dark-skinned Thalassian elf in the lore, it really doesn't matter much in gameplay after so many years of Blizzard doing stuff contradicting the lore. People can play as a dark skinned elf and that's it. They can justify the black skin to the elf being a half-elf born from a black human and an elf. New short ears can easily support this! Just be happy we get more choices so that players can immerse themselves in the game more by having customizations that appeal to them, or represent them.

And yeah, ofc it is an inclusivity tactic by Blizzard. It's not bad that Blizzard is staying modern.

[Rhlor]

asian high elf

[delus]

this isn't rly a debate, we are just discussing things for giggles, cause most of things are already set in stone



and im saying that until proved otherwise by then, we can do that



to be fair, other people were discussing different principles of the "races" and "playable races", i was merely trying to bring a point about that not being the case in the elf dilemma


but our point of discussion in general here is not identifying is it? its about actual races, themes


i didn't though


but you still can try, its what we always do, try to find some meaning and pattern


You sure think they will say "its just our inclusive campaign guys"? we had a Q&A recently saying those options are all lore friendly, and were things that already existed, they just didn't had the means to do it.

call it retcon or anything else, but is canon now



But that alone isn't a mutation, a tan isn't a mutation



thats... what im talking about all of this is about trade of genes too



and like i said, there is genes to make conditioning better or easier


but if you have a couple of genes who give you predisposition to obesity, there is big chances for that to go to your children



if one have predisposition and have a "better genetic" is more likely to have difference

I think all the talk of genetics is irrelevant when discussing a magical world. In the real world lighter skin allows for a greater production of vitamin D which is useful in areas with less sunlight. Quel'thalas is north of Azeroth's equator so the elves would be lighter skinned according to the rules of our reality. In short, brown skinned Thalassians are just for funzies. Don't overthink it any more than that.

[FlubberPuddy]

Don't overthink it any more than that.

I think he's just choosing to continue with his illogical logic as his first line there says he's not debating and just discussing 'for giggles' or as I often see it with such posters "I want to always have the Last Word".

Not sure if @Ielenia or @Ignaz have picked up on that yet.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Honestly @ravenmoon this is neither the place for this discussion nor is it one I even care to have at all. Is just wild to see people that claim to be NE fans to so deeply misrepresent what night elves actually are. This is the Ur example of liking something for what you want it to be above what it is. It's not even an issue if I agree with NE's going back to the imperial aesthetic, but how you can dismiss every and all evidence that doesn't suit your flimsy argument.

Back to HE's the topic at hand; this new bastion unicorn recolor is basically an upscaled quel'dorei steed lol.

[Edward Wu]

Honestly @ravenmoon this is neither the place for this discussion nor is it one I even care to have at all. Is just wild to see people that claim to be NE fans to so deeply misrepresent what night elves actually are. This is the Ur example of liking something for what you want it to be above what it is. It's not even an issue if I agree with NE's going back to the imperial aesthetic, but how you can dismiss every and all evidence that doesn't suit your flimsy argument.

Back to HE's the topic at hand; this new bastion unicorn recolor is basically an upscaled quel'dorei steed lol.

That's going to look great on my Alliance High Elf.

[FlubberPuddy]

That's going to look great on my Alliance High Elf.

Yeah it’s super awesome!! This is what I was waiting for, more High Elf designs are going to get legitimized by fans and Blizzard alike now that they’re part of playable race options!

That mount will fit real well among the many blue/gold themes of the Alliance

[Varodoc]

The Storm's Wake mount would also look great with high elves:



I recommend this to the people who are looking for a matching mount.

[elbleuet]

The Storm's Wake mount would also look great with high elves:



I recommend this to the people who are looking for a matching mount.

Yeah this one looks way better for a High elf. And it's an Alliance only mount.

[Cien]

Yeah this one looks way better for a High elf. And it's an Alliance only mount.

Can't be forgetting the good ol' unicorn mount from silver covenant though surely??

[DeicideUH]

Honestly @ravenmoon this is neither the place for this discussion nor is it one I even care to have at all. Is just wild to see people that claim to be NE fans to so deeply misrepresent what night elves actually are. This is the Ur example of liking something for what you want it to be above what it is. It's not even an issue if I agree with NE's going back to the imperial aesthetic, but how you can dismiss every and all evidence that doesn't suit your flimsy argument.

Back to HE's the topic at hand; this new bastion unicorn recolor is basically an upscaled quel'dorei steed lol.

I know I will be a lone voice, but I hate that they made all unicorns fly in Shadowlands. I like to have different ground and flying mounts, and really love my unicorn as a ground mount. I wish it was possible to disable flight for certain mounts.

[Frenchvince]

This unicorn with armor is also perfect for a high elf.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yeah this one looks way better for a High elf. And it's an Alliance only mount.

That's the first BfA horse I got for my mage

Can't be forgetting the good ol' unicorn mount from silver covenant though surely??

I mean that's my point; this one basically looks like a high res version of that one!

I know I will be a lone voice, but I hate that they made all unicorns fly in Shadowlands. I like to have different ground and flying mounts, and really love my unicorn as a ground mount. I wish it was possible to disable flight for certain mounts.

I use Livestock for that reason tbh. Works for me!

[FossilFree]

The Storm's Wake mount would also look great with high elves:



I recommend this to the people who are looking for a matching mount.

It would be a nice mount if it didn't have that diaper on it.

[DeicideUH]

I use Livestock for that reason tbh. Works for me!

Livestock? Is that an addon?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Livestock? Is that an addon?

Yah! it creates a macro that you can customize what mounts based on conditions (can fly, underwater, etc) with its "smart" function, or you can have different macros for "ground" or "flying"; and you can allow all the mounts you want to cycle, or just one (also works on pets)!

For example, on my SC Arcanist, I have the Stormsong Horse as ground mount, and the SC hippogriff as flying mount, so in no fly zones it chooses the steed, and in flying zones it chooses the hippogriff. Can't recommend it enough!

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It would be a nice mount if it didn't have that diaper on it.

Diaper? That's no diaper, that's a bunghole cover fyi

[DeicideUH]

Yah! it creates a macro that you can customize what mounts based on conditions (can fly, underwater, etc) with its "smart" function, or you can have different macros for "ground" or "flying"; and you can allow all the mounts you want to cycle, or just one (also works on pets)!

For example, on my SC Arcanist, I have the Stormsong Horse as ground mount, and the SC hippogriff as flying mount, so in no fly zones it chooses the steed, and in flying zones it chooses the hippogriff. Can't recommend it enough!

The thing is that sometimes I use ground mounts on flyable zones just for the feel of it. Which is why I don't like my horses flying. I wish I could disable flying for some mounts, as there's others (like manasabers or the priestess moonsaber) there I also wished could not fly.

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Guys, the servers are on, but there's nothing new for void elves (except female purple eye was enabled this time). Blood elves got bug fixes and bracelets for females, but that's it.

For anyone interested in seeing some gallery with random customization:

Alliance:
Humans
Dwarves

Horde:
Undead
Tauren
Blood Elves

[Strippling]

@Strippling here's someone asking for undead human skin options, you should probably let them know that's not good because humans are unique to Alliance and Blizzard needs to preserve faction uniqueness, right?

I noticed you've let it slip by so just making sure you've seen it's how I said (people asking for human skins on Undead), maybe you didn't see it or something.

I hadn't seen that post. Nice trolling though, great sport you are /thumbs up.

And in regards to "human undead skin options", I'd personally rather see dark ranger customization options. They could be given to the blood elves which then offer a level a fairness (the void elves having light skin and void options, and the blood elves having light skin and dark ranger options).

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Considering how 3 years ago you and your friends thought pnk skin tones for void elves were impossible, be quiet.

I never said impossible, i said highly unlikely. Though I must admit this development was a surprise. Your condescending tone is noted though.

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I see your point, I thought so at first, but a lack of blonde hair seems a bit silly really, I would make green eyes the prohibition, because at the end of the day, you can choose what type of void elf or void elf faction affliated elf you are, it is odd to just "leave out blonde hair" - seeing that most of the natural skinned elves tagging a long with Alleria are blondies. The difference is more the options you can have, void elves have void effect hair, blood elves don't - they could give blood elves other distinguishing features, like flame hair - similar to some dark iron dwarves.. blood anima effects, I think this is more what they should aim for.

Leaving blonde hair out defeats what this change is basically about, and will only lead to another string of post requests for blond hair. I would say, give them 1 or 2 types of blond hair, maybe blond hair that's going purple or silver at the roots, could be available. But at least 1 pure blond.

I appreciate that you at least acknowledge the glaring would be issue if void elves get the blood elf hair options. If blizzard do choose to go down that route then it'd be a slap in the face to blood elves who'd essentially loose all their customizations to the void elves, while on top of that the void elves having their own unique custimizations that blood elves certainly wouldn't have (void customizations). I'm going to assume that jewelry and ear size options will also be given to void elves at some point. At that stage the blood elves would have lost all uniqueness yet the void elves would still have something unique (their void customizations). Furthermore, void elves (not high elves but void elves) would have more "high elf" like customization options then "void" customization options. Imagine giving nightborne druidic options to the extent that they had more "druidic or night elven" options than nightborne options. It'd completely defeat the concept and fundamental aspect of that race.

So, in order to prevent taking away everything unique from the blood elves, I feel a compromise would be to either A) not give void elves the blood elf hair options (that way they can be differentiated by their darker hair colors which fit the void theme), or B) give blood elves a suite of dark ranger options to provide something unique to them. Else the void elves would have the blood elf customizations PLUS their own unique void customizations.

[ravenmoon]

I like night elves my first character in wow was a night elf, obviously later I became a blood elf and now I play only horde. I'm going to tell you what I think

Well thanks for sharing your thoughts. Like most current blood elf players and fans, I noticed all started on the alliance as night elves, because that was the only elf race playable at the time.

Night elves didn't have much of the magic fantasy shown in game (though it was plenty in the books) and didn't show wondrous elven city either (though the lore had them capable of that), when blood elves came out, the models were better, the forests were better, the city was better, the magic was better - as in better shown in game (not lore wise, night elves as the original elves always exceeded the blood elves in all things elven), however in game it was shown much better on the blood elves, and intentionally so, to get all the high elf players over and to attract as many people to playing horde which was severely out numbered. it worked.

you switched then, and your allegiances switched. Blizzard did not create the night elves to be the nature side of the elves, for which the blood elves are the arcane side..that's not how they design their game. This is easy to see both through other races who have multiple aspects to them (not just one thing) and the lore of the night elves which has them having everything elves typically have.

This is because they tried to build a vibrant world, with realitc races and wanted you to have powerful fantasies to roleplay in each race. It would be silly if the only fantasy of the night elf was a forest elf druid, and all the others were fluff, this is why the mage became playable in cata - and why night elves as a race have never stopped having arcane users or cities (Eldre'thalas and Suramar are p rime example - don't let the fact that Suramar night elves are Nightborne fool you, it's a night elven race).

With that in mind, I'll comment on your answers, but once again, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Even when my opinion , views and observations differ.

1) the night elves decided not to rebuild any of the ruins in kalimdor they were able to do so but instead built new structures with an architectural style that could be said to be druidic.

They did, during the long vigil. In fact go one step further, it was not just archietcural syles of the pre-sundering they didn't build, they didn't build any new cities or towns and din't rebuild anything that was fallen. Why?

Ask yourself why - it's easy - they couldn't use arcane magic during that period and the Long Vigil was a military period, a military campaign of watching and guarding. No civilization as normal (like before in the pre-sundering era). Now think what this means and why you observe this.

Without arcane magic, most new structures are built normally or with wood that wisps can shape, the style is actually pre-sundering rural architecture.

what happens when the lLong Vigil ends, they start civilization again, what do they build for the first time in 10k years? A city, what style is the architecture of the major buildings in that city? Pre-sundering.

To think that night elves can't or won't do pre-sundering type architecture is incorrect, both lore and in game prove it.

2) the elves who loved arcane magic and wanted to build cities in the night elf society were exiled by Malfurion and created quelthalas.

Not because the others didn't, but because during that period, they believed doing so would bring the Legion back. However
Other night elves were living in cities, as night elves, doing arcane magic - showing that the race night elf isn't exclusive of arcane magic at all. Furthermore, once the legion returns and the long vigil ends, that Malfurion/Tyrande led group have in the present era, allied with people using arcane magic and allied with the Highborne caste that was banned (albeit was a different group of them).

Meaning- your point 2 holds no relevance - because night elves use arcane magic, and Malfruion's group have accepted it and have an entire caste using it.

3) I personally thought that the Nightborne would be a good allied race of the night elves (at that time we called that idea sub-race and surely you remember that) but many players in the alliance said that the Nightborne had to be from the horde and the alliance had to have the blood elf model. and in the end that happened now Suramar is the capital of a playable horde race and suramar's architectural style is part of what the horde is.

That's all true. I naturally expected as the night elf sub-race they would be with the night elves, and yes many people argued they should be both, I knew there was a chance they could go horde entirely too, - Nightborne on the horde had only one appeal to me, it would make the night elf race available to the horde and allow more stories of night elves now involving fans of both factions invested. Tbh, blizzard really haven't capitalised on this yet, the Nightborne are just drifting as blood elf clones rather than bringing more of the kaldorei in them out - they were always un-necessary in terms of function to the blood elves who were already a highly magical , urban elf society, it's the night elves that needed this presentation - their only lore value is bringing kaldorei assets and culture to the horde, but they've failed on utilising this properly - but to be fair, blizzard are only telling character based plots rather than actually exploring races further. This seems to only happen if you're doing the quests in their zones - so I don't expect much more.

You'd have to base your knowledge of the Nightborne based on 7.0.1 - and use your imagination.

3) night elves must have highborne personalization there is a group of shendrelar (not all shendrelar) who joined the darnassian in recent years but they are a small group and therefore their representation within these societies cannot be the prevailing one when druids rule.

I wouldn't say it "cannot " be the prevailing one as much as it doesn't need to be, my vision for the night elves is that the 3, arcane, elune and nature cultures and influence are equal. The arcane society doesn't need to dominate the Darnassians in order to contribute visibly too, they can be the pioneers of the cityscape - this doesn't eliminate the druidic architecture or rural buildings you shown, those still exist in the forest areas - nor does it mean the society is totally arcanised just because it lives in fancy buildigns. The minority highborne caste can determine the cityscape while still being a minority - and be aware druids don't live in cities. Furthermore, the arcane doesn't need to be widespread to live in a city either.

however the rest of what you say is correct, the Shen'dralar are or at least pre-WoT a smaller group, but you have to enlarge the numbers of the highborne, because they've been recruiting many night elves since cata and had old Darnasisan highborne return to the caste. So the Highborne with the alliance are not just the Shen'dralar any longer.

4) the architectural style of the night elves can be seen clearly in what was their racial capital! It is in the capital where all the culture of that society was clearly visible and what we see makes it clear to us what type of buildings were used by the Darnassians

that was darnassus the capital of the night elves was the maximum point of the civilization that they created after abandoning the imperial style.

night elves should have cities that respect their cultural identity, obviously I think shendrelars could have an arcane-oriented district in night elves cities because they are part of that society and deserve representation but the main culture is the one that always we saw in today's Darnassian society.
zin azshari from my personal point of view should be a city shared by all the elves since they all have a relationship with it.

You have to acknowledge that Zin'Azshari and Surmar as well as Eldre'thalas are also the architectural style of the Night elves, you should also realise that cityscape arthiceture is different from rural and forest ones and even different from larger towns too. Night elves are a big race, it's easy to see they have several styles, but we basically can divide them into to 2 - the graceful buildings you see the Temples designed out of and all pre-sundering city buildings, and the wooden forest ones you see in remote lodges, rural locations and forests.

Both are night elven, always have been, and always will be unless blizzard retcon the lore.