Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[DeicideUH]

Honestly @ravenmoon this is neither the place for this discussion nor is it one I even care to have at all. Is just wild to see people that claim to be NE fans to so deeply misrepresent what night elves actually are. This is the Ur example of liking something for what you want it to be above what it is. It's not even an issue if I agree with NE's going back to the imperial aesthetic, but how you can dismiss every and all evidence that doesn't suit your flimsy argument.

Back to HE's the topic at hand; this new bastion unicorn recolor is basically an upscaled quel'dorei steed lol.

I know I will be a lone voice, but I hate that they made all unicorns fly in Shadowlands. I like to have different ground and flying mounts, and really love my unicorn as a ground mount. I wish it was possible to disable flight for certain mounts.

[Frenchvince]

This unicorn with armor is also perfect for a high elf.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yeah this one looks way better for a High elf. And it's an Alliance only mount.

That's the first BfA horse I got for my mage

Can't be forgetting the good ol' unicorn mount from silver covenant though surely??

I mean that's my point; this one basically looks like a high res version of that one!

I know I will be a lone voice, but I hate that they made all unicorns fly in Shadowlands. I like to have different ground and flying mounts, and really love my unicorn as a ground mount. I wish it was possible to disable flight for certain mounts.

I use Livestock for that reason tbh. Works for me!

[FossilFree]

The Storm's Wake mount would also look great with high elves:



I recommend this to the people who are looking for a matching mount.

It would be a nice mount if it didn't have that diaper on it.

[DeicideUH]

I use Livestock for that reason tbh. Works for me!

Livestock? Is that an addon?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Livestock? Is that an addon?

Yah! it creates a macro that you can customize what mounts based on conditions (can fly, underwater, etc) with its "smart" function, or you can have different macros for "ground" or "flying"; and you can allow all the mounts you want to cycle, or just one (also works on pets)!

For example, on my SC Arcanist, I have the Stormsong Horse as ground mount, and the SC hippogriff as flying mount, so in no fly zones it chooses the steed, and in flying zones it chooses the hippogriff. Can't recommend it enough!

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It would be a nice mount if it didn't have that diaper on it.

Diaper? That's no diaper, that's a bunghole cover fyi

[DeicideUH]

Yah! it creates a macro that you can customize what mounts based on conditions (can fly, underwater, etc) with its "smart" function, or you can have different macros for "ground" or "flying"; and you can allow all the mounts you want to cycle, or just one (also works on pets)!

For example, on my SC Arcanist, I have the Stormsong Horse as ground mount, and the SC hippogriff as flying mount, so in no fly zones it chooses the steed, and in flying zones it chooses the hippogriff. Can't recommend it enough!

The thing is that sometimes I use ground mounts on flyable zones just for the feel of it. Which is why I don't like my horses flying. I wish I could disable flying for some mounts, as there's others (like manasabers or the priestess moonsaber) there I also wished could not fly.

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Guys, the servers are on, but there's nothing new for void elves (except female purple eye was enabled this time). Blood elves got bug fixes and bracelets for females, but that's it.

For anyone interested in seeing some gallery with random customization:

Alliance:
Humans
Dwarves

Horde:
Undead
Tauren
Blood Elves

[Strippling]

@Strippling here's someone asking for undead human skin options, you should probably let them know that's not good because humans are unique to Alliance and Blizzard needs to preserve faction uniqueness, right?

I noticed you've let it slip by so just making sure you've seen it's how I said (people asking for human skins on Undead), maybe you didn't see it or something.

I hadn't seen that post. Nice trolling though, great sport you are /thumbs up.

And in regards to "human undead skin options", I'd personally rather see dark ranger customization options. They could be given to the blood elves which then offer a level a fairness (the void elves having light skin and void options, and the blood elves having light skin and dark ranger options).

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Considering how 3 years ago you and your friends thought pnk skin tones for void elves were impossible, be quiet.

I never said impossible, i said highly unlikely. Though I must admit this development was a surprise. Your condescending tone is noted though.

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I see your point, I thought so at first, but a lack of blonde hair seems a bit silly really, I would make green eyes the prohibition, because at the end of the day, you can choose what type of void elf or void elf faction affliated elf you are, it is odd to just "leave out blonde hair" - seeing that most of the natural skinned elves tagging a long with Alleria are blondies. The difference is more the options you can have, void elves have void effect hair, blood elves don't - they could give blood elves other distinguishing features, like flame hair - similar to some dark iron dwarves.. blood anima effects, I think this is more what they should aim for.

Leaving blonde hair out defeats what this change is basically about, and will only lead to another string of post requests for blond hair. I would say, give them 1 or 2 types of blond hair, maybe blond hair that's going purple or silver at the roots, could be available. But at least 1 pure blond.

I appreciate that you at least acknowledge the glaring would be issue if void elves get the blood elf hair options. If blizzard do choose to go down that route then it'd be a slap in the face to blood elves who'd essentially loose all their customizations to the void elves, while on top of that the void elves having their own unique custimizations that blood elves certainly wouldn't have (void customizations). I'm going to assume that jewelry and ear size options will also be given to void elves at some point. At that stage the blood elves would have lost all uniqueness yet the void elves would still have something unique (their void customizations). Furthermore, void elves (not high elves but void elves) would have more "high elf" like customization options then "void" customization options. Imagine giving nightborne druidic options to the extent that they had more "druidic or night elven" options than nightborne options. It'd completely defeat the concept and fundamental aspect of that race.

So, in order to prevent taking away everything unique from the blood elves, I feel a compromise would be to either A) not give void elves the blood elf hair options (that way they can be differentiated by their darker hair colors which fit the void theme), or B) give blood elves a suite of dark ranger options to provide something unique to them. Else the void elves would have the blood elf customizations PLUS their own unique void customizations.

[ravenmoon]

I like night elves my first character in wow was a night elf, obviously later I became a blood elf and now I play only horde. I'm going to tell you what I think

Well thanks for sharing your thoughts. Like most current blood elf players and fans, I noticed all started on the alliance as night elves, because that was the only elf race playable at the time.

Night elves didn't have much of the magic fantasy shown in game (though it was plenty in the books) and didn't show wondrous elven city either (though the lore had them capable of that), when blood elves came out, the models were better, the forests were better, the city was better, the magic was better - as in better shown in game (not lore wise, night elves as the original elves always exceeded the blood elves in all things elven), however in game it was shown much better on the blood elves, and intentionally so, to get all the high elf players over and to attract as many people to playing horde which was severely out numbered. it worked.

you switched then, and your allegiances switched. Blizzard did not create the night elves to be the nature side of the elves, for which the blood elves are the arcane side..that's not how they design their game. This is easy to see both through other races who have multiple aspects to them (not just one thing) and the lore of the night elves which has them having everything elves typically have.

This is because they tried to build a vibrant world, with realitc races and wanted you to have powerful fantasies to roleplay in each race. It would be silly if the only fantasy of the night elf was a forest elf druid, and all the others were fluff, this is why the mage became playable in cata - and why night elves as a race have never stopped having arcane users or cities (Eldre'thalas and Suramar are p rime example - don't let the fact that Suramar night elves are Nightborne fool you, it's a night elven race).

With that in mind, I'll comment on your answers, but once again, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Even when my opinion , views and observations differ.

1) the night elves decided not to rebuild any of the ruins in kalimdor they were able to do so but instead built new structures with an architectural style that could be said to be druidic.

They did, during the long vigil. In fact go one step further, it was not just archietcural syles of the pre-sundering they didn't build, they didn't build any new cities or towns and din't rebuild anything that was fallen. Why?

Ask yourself why - it's easy - they couldn't use arcane magic during that period and the Long Vigil was a military period, a military campaign of watching and guarding. No civilization as normal (like before in the pre-sundering era). Now think what this means and why you observe this.

Without arcane magic, most new structures are built normally or with wood that wisps can shape, the style is actually pre-sundering rural architecture.

what happens when the lLong Vigil ends, they start civilization again, what do they build for the first time in 10k years? A city, what style is the architecture of the major buildings in that city? Pre-sundering.

To think that night elves can't or won't do pre-sundering type architecture is incorrect, both lore and in game prove it.

2) the elves who loved arcane magic and wanted to build cities in the night elf society were exiled by Malfurion and created quelthalas.

Not because the others didn't, but because during that period, they believed doing so would bring the Legion back. However
Other night elves were living in cities, as night elves, doing arcane magic - showing that the race night elf isn't exclusive of arcane magic at all. Furthermore, once the legion returns and the long vigil ends, that Malfurion/Tyrande led group have in the present era, allied with people using arcane magic and allied with the Highborne caste that was banned (albeit was a different group of them).

Meaning- your point 2 holds no relevance - because night elves use arcane magic, and Malfruion's group have accepted it and have an entire caste using it.

3) I personally thought that the Nightborne would be a good allied race of the night elves (at that time we called that idea sub-race and surely you remember that) but many players in the alliance said that the Nightborne had to be from the horde and the alliance had to have the blood elf model. and in the end that happened now Suramar is the capital of a playable horde race and suramar's architectural style is part of what the horde is.

That's all true. I naturally expected as the night elf sub-race they would be with the night elves, and yes many people argued they should be both, I knew there was a chance they could go horde entirely too, - Nightborne on the horde had only one appeal to me, it would make the night elf race available to the horde and allow more stories of night elves now involving fans of both factions invested. Tbh, blizzard really haven't capitalised on this yet, the Nightborne are just drifting as blood elf clones rather than bringing more of the kaldorei in them out - they were always un-necessary in terms of function to the blood elves who were already a highly magical , urban elf society, it's the night elves that needed this presentation - their only lore value is bringing kaldorei assets and culture to the horde, but they've failed on utilising this properly - but to be fair, blizzard are only telling character based plots rather than actually exploring races further. This seems to only happen if you're doing the quests in their zones - so I don't expect much more.

You'd have to base your knowledge of the Nightborne based on 7.0.1 - and use your imagination.

3) night elves must have highborne personalization there is a group of shendrelar (not all shendrelar) who joined the darnassian in recent years but they are a small group and therefore their representation within these societies cannot be the prevailing one when druids rule.

I wouldn't say it "cannot " be the prevailing one as much as it doesn't need to be, my vision for the night elves is that the 3, arcane, elune and nature cultures and influence are equal. The arcane society doesn't need to dominate the Darnassians in order to contribute visibly too, they can be the pioneers of the cityscape - this doesn't eliminate the druidic architecture or rural buildings you shown, those still exist in the forest areas - nor does it mean the society is totally arcanised just because it lives in fancy buildigns. The minority highborne caste can determine the cityscape while still being a minority - and be aware druids don't live in cities. Furthermore, the arcane doesn't need to be widespread to live in a city either.

however the rest of what you say is correct, the Shen'dralar are or at least pre-WoT a smaller group, but you have to enlarge the numbers of the highborne, because they've been recruiting many night elves since cata and had old Darnasisan highborne return to the caste. So the Highborne with the alliance are not just the Shen'dralar any longer.

4) the architectural style of the night elves can be seen clearly in what was their racial capital! It is in the capital where all the culture of that society was clearly visible and what we see makes it clear to us what type of buildings were used by the Darnassians

that was darnassus the capital of the night elves was the maximum point of the civilization that they created after abandoning the imperial style.

night elves should have cities that respect their cultural identity, obviously I think shendrelars could have an arcane-oriented district in night elves cities because they are part of that society and deserve representation but the main culture is the one that always we saw in today's Darnassian society.
zin azshari from my personal point of view should be a city shared by all the elves since they all have a relationship with it.

You have to acknowledge that Zin'Azshari and Surmar as well as Eldre'thalas are also the architectural style of the Night elves, you should also realise that cityscape arthiceture is different from rural and forest ones and even different from larger towns too. Night elves are a big race, it's easy to see they have several styles, but we basically can divide them into to 2 - the graceful buildings you see the Temples designed out of and all pre-sundering city buildings, and the wooden forest ones you see in remote lodges, rural locations and forests.

Both are night elven, always have been, and always will be unless blizzard retcon the lore.

[Syegfryed]

I think all the talk of genetics is irrelevant when discussing a magical world. In the real world lighter skin allows for a greater production of vitamin D which is useful in areas with less sunlight. Quel'thalas is north of Azeroth's equator so the elves would be lighter skinned according to the rules of our reality. In short, brown skinned Thalassians are just for funzies. Don't overthink it any more than that.

no i know its more or less irrelevant, but this come up later, we are just trying to find some meaning behind and the "playable race thing", and "who is race and who is not"

I think he's just choosing to continue with his illogical logic as his first line there says he's not debating and just discussing 'for giggles' or as I often see it with such posters "I want to always have the Last Word".

there is nothing "illogical logic", i said we are discussing for giggles because most of it it doens't matter cause Blizzard have the final say on things, not us, not players with different definitions of "playable race"

[ravenmoon]

I appreciate that you at least acknowledge the glaring would be issue if void elves get the blood elf hair options. If blizzard do choose to go down that route then it'd be a slap in the face to blood elves who'd essentially loose all their customizations to the void elves, while on top of that the void elves having their own unique custimizations that blood elves certainly wouldn't have (void customizations). I'm going to assume that jewelry and ear size options will also be given to void elves at some point. At that stage the blood elves would have lost all uniqueness yet the void elves would still have something unique (their void customizations). Furthermore, void elves (not high elves but void elves) would have more "high elf" like customization options then "void" customization options. Imagine giving nightborne druidic options to the extent that they had more "druidic or night elven" options than nightborne options. It'd completely defeat the concept and fundamental aspect of that race.

So, in order to prevent taking away everything unique from the blood elves, I feel a compromise would be to either A) not give void elves the blood elf hair options (that way they can be differentiated by their darker hair colors which fit the void theme), or B) give blood elves a suite of dark ranger options to provide something unique to them. Else the void elves would have the blood elf customizations PLUS their own unique void customizations.

We really should stop viewing it like that when it comes to elves. A slap in the face.. to who? horde fans? Alliance fans? Wasn't blood elves going horde a slapin the face to alliance fans in the first place? And Nightborne following 12 years later another slap in the face? It won't be a slap in the face for alliance high elf options to have blond hair because that is what the race has always had, and it's ben part of the alliance, it's like the people who feel now the Nightbornea re horde, suddenly the night elves can't have highborne customisations or live in a night elf city like Suramar - these are night elf assets and lore - once they've crossed faction like that don't expect people not to want cool stuff on theirs, and they must think on what they should allow and shouldn't.

Can you imagine if they did that to Pandaren.. most peple agreed that the horde pandaren customisations were cooler, the alliance lot would always be requesting it... but you have no such issue for other races like Dwarves, orcs, trolls, gnomes, dranei, goblins , worgen etc, because those are exclusive to the various factions.

When blizzard took Elves over they were already part of the alliance in the lore. both High elvs and Night elves.. so making the blood elves horde and the Nightborne - using racial assets that are high elven and night elven and using the high elf and night elf race on the horde like that is obviously going to produce requests from the fans of the faction they were first on.

it's like you got up and gave the enemy better models, better assets, better storylines and achievements - made them look good at it, and you left me like this.

They're gonna want more. This is why really I applaud the high elf skins opening up and would applaud Highborne customisations and a new really cool looking night elf city coming in the future.

[Poppets]

Void elves are also Thalassian elves, so it's only fitting that they get options to make them look more natural.
I don't think Blizzard will share anything other than skin / eye colors and potentially hair colors or the choice of ear size.

so you mean everything that makes a blood elf look blood elf.

[Kyriani]

I've mentioned this earlier, but I'd rather not ask for unique Blood Elf hairstyles or colors and am much more inclined to ask for a few Human hairstyles and colors. It makes a lot of sense since the Alliance High Elves have been living in Human societies and "intermingling" with them as we are often reminded. If Alliance High Elves are, indeed, joining the Ren'dorei, then it makes sense that they'd bring some of the aesthetics they picked up from Humans along with them.

These are some hairstyles and hair colors from Humans that I'd like to see shared with Void Elves:

This avoids sharing any hairstyles unique to Blood Elves with Void Elves and allows them to be more distinct from their Horde brethren.

[Ignaz]

this isn't rly a debate, we are just discussing things for giggles, cause most of things are already set in stone

If you say so...

and im saying that until proved otherwise by then, we can do that

wut?

but our point of discussion in general here is not identifying is it? its about actual races, themes

You were the one who brought the idea of faction identity and how the integration of Helves would violate that point.

i didn't though

Yes, you did. On multiple occasions and with different interlocutors

but you still can try, its what we always do, try to find some meaning and pattern

You can find meanings and patterns without using real world science. You just need logic and common sense.

You sure think they will say "its just our inclusive campaign guys"? we had a Q&A recently saying those options are all lore friendly, and were things that already existed, they just didn't had the means to do it.

call it retcon or anything else, but is canon now

Even if they said it in a Q&A, it is still a fallacy that highlights an inclusive campaign in progress. Just use logic and look back to realize that Black Helves never existed until the release of the Shadowlands pre-patch.

But that alone isn't a mutation, a tan isn't a mutation

it's not a tan, it's their skin colors that even their children inherit

thats... what im talking about all of this is about trade of genes too

No, you are using wrong times and terms, and you are even relating the times (wrong times) with the evolution of the species in wow. And you keep confusing conditioning with evolution

but if you have a couple of genes who give you predisposition to obesity, there is big chances for that to go to your children

Which genes give you a predisposition to obesity? fat is not inherited, habits are inherited

if one have predisposition and have a "better genetic" is more likely to have difference

Not proportionally. Stop confusing evolution with conditioning

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I think all the talk of genetics is irrelevant when discussing a magical world. In the real world lighter skin allows for a greater production of vitamin D which is useful in areas with less sunlight. Quel'thalas is north of Azeroth's equator so the elves would be lighter skinned according to the rules of our reality. In short, brown skinned Thalassians are just for funzies. Don't overthink it any more than that.

Excellent

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I think he's just choosing to continue with his illogical logic as his first line there says he's not debating and just discussing 'for giggles' or as I often see it with such posters "I want to always have the Last Word".

Not sure if @Ielenia or @Ignaz have picked up on that yet.

Sure i did, but I love to debate, and more when I can prove my point

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I've mentioned this earlier, but I'd rather not ask for unique Blood Elf hairstyles or colors and am much more inclined to ask for a few Human hairstyles and colors. It makes a lot of sense since the Alliance High Elves have been living in Human societies and "intermingling" with them as we are often reminded. If Alliance High Elves are, indeed, joining the Ren'dorei, then it makes sense that they'd bring some of the aesthetics they picked up from Humans along with them.

These are some hairstyles and hair colors from Humans that I'd like to see shared with Void Elves:

This avoids sharing any hairstyles unique to Blood Elves with Void Elves and allows them to be more distinct from their Horde brethren.

Ahh, if I had beta access I'd really like to put the new hairstyles on the VE model :/ Could start with the old ones

[Doffen]

We really should stop viewing it like that when it comes to elves. A slap in the face.. to who? horde fans? Alliance fans? Wasn't blood elves going horde a slapin the face to alliance fans in the first place? And Nightborne following 12 years later another slap in the face? It won't be a slap in the face for alliance high elf options to have blond hair because that is what the race has always had, and it's ben part of the alliance, it's like the people who feel now the Nightbornea re horde, suddenly the night elves can't have highborne customisations or live in a night elf city like Suramar - these are night elf assets and lore - once they've crossed faction like that don't expect people not to want cool stuff on theirs, and they must think on what they should allow and shouldn't.

Can you imagine if they did that to Pandaren.. most peple agreed that the horde pandaren customisations were cooler, the alliance lot would always be requesting it... but you have no such issue for other races like Dwarves, orcs, trolls, gnomes, dranei, goblins , worgen etc, because those are exclusive to the various factions.

When blizzard took Elves over they were already part of the alliance in the lore. both High elvs and Night elves.. so making the blood elves horde and the Nightborne - using racial assets that are high elven and night elven and using the high elf and night elf race on the horde like that is obviously going to produce requests from the fans of the faction they were first on.

it's like you got up and gave the enemy better models, better assets, better storylines and achievements - made them look good at it, and you left me like this.

They're gonna want more. This is why really I applaud the high elf skins opening up and would applaud Highborne customisations and a new really cool looking night elf city coming in the future.

I really like your reasoning and how you present your arguments(yes I have said so before), but it all makes sense in the way you describe it.

Horde getting Blood Elves was controversial, even at blizzard. Metzen himself said it was weird. Then 20 months later they added a proper group of High Elves who loathed the Horde. 10 years later they added a group of Blood Elves joining the Alliance. And 12 years later they now add Blood Elf skin tones to Void Elves. It's been a long road for the "pale elves on the Alliance" group of people. But its here now. Together with increased customization.

It's just as controversial(no, not really) that Alliance now can be pale thalassian elves that it was controversial that Blood Elves joined the Horde. To the group of people who say now its a slap in the face, you still have your elves. No one is taking anything from you. They just give the other group more of the stuff they wanted. It just reeks entitlement all the way.

And for those who are now "hurt" by this, good riddance. They have been sailing on the confidence of blizzards words(their skewed interpretation that is) and being arrogant long enough. It's time to get down to earth.

[Strippling]

We really should stop viewing it like that when it comes to elves. A slap in the face.. to who? horde fans? Alliance fans? Wasn't blood elves going horde a slapin the face to alliance fans in the first place? And Nightborne following 12 years later another slap in the face? It won't be a slap in the face for alliance high elf options to have blond hair because that is what the race has always had, and it's ben part of the alliance, it's like the people who feel now the Nightbornea re horde, suddenly the night elves can't have highborne customisations or live in a night elf city like Suramar - these are night elf assets and lore - once they've crossed faction like that don't expect people not to want cool stuff on theirs, and they must think on what they should allow and shouldn't.

Can you imagine if they did that to Pandaren.. most peple agreed that the horde pandaren customisations were cooler, the alliance lot would always be requesting it... but you have no such issue for other races like Dwarves, orcs, trolls, gnomes, dranei, goblins , worgen etc, because those are exclusive to the various factions.

When blizzard took Elves over they were already part of the alliance in the lore. both High elvs and Night elves.. so making the blood elves horde and the Nightborne - using racial assets that are high elven and night elven and using the high elf and night elf race on the horde like that is obviously going to produce requests from the fans of the faction they were first on.

it's like you got up and gave the enemy better models, better assets, better storylines and achievements - made them look good at it, and you left me like this.

They're gonna want more. This is why really I applaud the high elf skins opening up and would applaud Highborne customisations and a new really cool looking night elf city coming in the future.

A slap in the face to both blood elf and Horde players, whether you think so or not.

And how was blood elves going Horde a slap in the face to alliance fans? WCIII setup the blood elves leaving the Alliance. Coming into WoW the blood elves were no longer a part of the Alliance. There were remnants of the high elf race who were friendly with the Alliance, but as we see today, these remnants are no more prominent in the Alliance today than they were 15 years ago. The high elf race became the blood elves, who left the alliance, a few remnants remained with the Alliance but they have had a minor contribution to the Alliance story line. The only people who view blood elves as an iconic alliance race are those who can't get over the fact the 15+ years ago Blizzard decided to break the standard fantasy trope and move the high elf story in another direction. Those who think the remnants of that group who are still with the ALliance are iconic are also ignorant or stubborn. If high elves were so iconic to the Alliance then why have they never been playable? Blizzard clearly doesn't view them as an iconic alliance race. Their actions say so. Blizzard view the blood elves as the continuation of the high elven race (following WCIII), hence why their efforts have for the last decade have been put into blood elves. They've told stories of the fractured group who chose to stay with the Alliance, but they clearly aren't iconic. If you think they are iconic then that is simply a product of your head canon. IF they were so iconic to the Alliance then explain to me why they were never made a playable option to the Alliance? Seriously, explain that to me (without inputting your head canon).

Void elves were made playable as opposed to high elves. What does that tell you? Yet apparently they're iconic...? Blizzard have decided to give a light skinned variant to the void elves, but they are still void elves at the end of the day. Seriously, explain to me how high elves are an iconic alliance race if they have never been playable and have had less input than gnomes.

The "iconic" high elf race went a different direction, they became the blood elves. The blood elves left the Alliance prior to WoW, so them going Horde was never a "slap in the face to alliance fans". Night elves are the iconic alliance elf race. Furthermore, chronicles explains how the high elves always had a fickle relationship with the alliance, concreting the fact that they are not iconic.

ANd yes, there are a group of high elves who have remained loyal to the Alliance. But they are not an "iconic" feature of the Alliance, they are a minor addition. Hence why void elves are getting "high elf like" customizations, as opposed to an iconic alliance high elf playable race. The blood elves are our high elves.

So, when it comes to racial differentiation.. each playable race should have something unique to them. It's what makes the whole "character selection" process special. Else might as well just make humans and orcs with options to customize pointy ears, human skin colors, tusks, tails, etc... With void elves getting the blood elf skins, if they were to get their hair options too then the blood elves would lose that uniqueness. The only reason you don't see people arguing for "dwarf customizations" on Horde or "orcs on alliance" is because those races are "ugly". People want the pretty races, the statistics show us this... and blood elves are easily the "prettiest race" in the game, hence why the alliance have wanted this aesthestic since it came around in TBC.

So, if blizzard choose to give the hair options too then it's only fair that blood elves are compensated with something to make them unique from void elves. One thing that could be is dark ranger aesthetics. Though ultimately, in my opinion the blood elf hair options should remain with them. You can choose to disagree, but that doesn't invalidate my view on the matter.

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I really like your reasoning and how you present your arguments(yes I have said so before), but it all makes sense in the way you describe it.

Horde getting Blood Elves was controversial, even at blizzard. Metzen himself said it was weird. Then 20 months later they added a proper group of High Elves who loathed the Horde. 10 years later they added a group of Blood Elves joining the Alliance. And 12 years later they now add Blood Elf skin tones to Void Elves. It's been a long road for the "pale elves on the Alliance" group of people. But its here now. Together with increased customization.

It's just as controversial that Alliance now can be pale thalassian elves that it was controversial that Blood Elves joined the Horde. To the group of people who say now its a slap in the face, you still have your elves. No one is taking anything from you. They just give the other group more of the stuff they wanted. It just reeks entitlement all the way.

And for those who are now "hurt" by this, good riddance. They have been sailing on the confidence of blizzards words(their skewed interpretation that is) and being arrogant long enough. It's time to get down to earth.

I'm not "hurt" by this. I have and will continue to advocate for or against things I agree or disagree with. No different to players advocating the opposite.

And blood elves going alliance was only controversial in the sense Alliance players thought they had ownership of the high elf race. Funny how you use the word "entitled" yet the only reason alliance fans were upset about blood elves going Horde was because of "entitlement". The reality though is that the blood elves left the Alliance prior to WoW, so they had no reason to be Alliance when WoW came around.

[Kyriani]

Ahh, if I had beta access I'd really like to put the new hairstyles on the VE model :/ Could start with the old ones

If at any point you gain access and can try it out, please share some pics! I'd love to see how they'd look! Also I wouldn't mind seeing the old ones too!

[Doffen]

And blood elves going alliance was only controversial in the sense Alliance players thought they had ownership of the high elf race. Funny how you use the word "entitled" yet the only reason alliance fans were upset about blood elves going Horde was because of "entitlement". The reality though is that the blood elves left the Alliance prior to WoW, so they had no reason to be Alliance when WoW came around.

Nah, people lived on eventually. It was also something else entirely, that's why I wrote not really on the controversial bit about Void Elves getting pale skin. A whole race that had been an Alliance race for what, 6-7 years was it, suddenly are not with the Alliance but with taurens and orcs in the Horde instead. And they didn't really join the Horde before TBC you know.

Metzen said that it was weird, and we also know the horde got Blood Elves because of looks(funny how that is) and not because it made so much sense. You say they "have no reason to be Alliance", but blizzard might has well made the story different. The Blood Elves were alone until TBC. So comparing those two are just you trying to bail out. But this is just semantics. It's a bit weird to be so entitled to looks like you have been, and that's why it reeks of entitlement, because you don't lose anything. Alliance lost a whole race, you are not losing anything. So the entitlement stands strongly here.

Losing something and not losing something is apples and potatoes.

[Syegfryed]

wut?

if there is nothing conflicting with "real world shenanigans" there is no reason to not use then, in determinate subject.

You were the one who brought the idea of faction identity and how the integration of Helves would violate that point.

Still is, and while models do that in an extent, there is far worse "violations", that we can and should avoid

Yes, you did. On multiple occasions and with different interlocutors

there is no difference with the elves we are talking about

You can find meanings and patterns without using real world science. You just need logic and common sense.

those logic and common sense, can use real world science

Even if they said it in a Q&A, it is still a fallacy that highlights an inclusive campaign in progress.

isn't a fallacy is "word of god", like i said, call retcon but its the truth and the canon now

it's not a tan, it's their skin colors that even their children inherit

and their children didn't inherit, there is children with fel taint because they were also around the energies, its not something they born with

No, you are using wrong times and terms, and you are even relating the times (wrong times) with the evolution of the species in wow. And you keep confusing conditioning with evolution

i don't think i am, we are just not in the same page.

im not confusing, im saying they are related

Which genes give you a predisposition to obesity? fat is not inherited, habits are inherited

there is "diseases" called Bardet-Biedl syndrome and Prader-Willi and monogenic obesity, genes that cause predisposition to obesity

Not proportionally. Stop confusing evolution with conditioning

there is no confusion, but its all related, something you are firmly denying it