Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

Anyone planning to roleplay a high elf from Dalaran? Are the Silver Covenant still there after their base was replaced by the worgen in Legion?

I'm going to roleplay a mage as a High Elf from Dalaran. It'll fit with going back to the Mage Order Hall in Legion.

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Frankly I hope blood elves also get Dark Ranger customization options. I imagine it'd be very interesting to RP as a Dark Ranger who struggled between their loyalty to Sylvanas and their loyalty to Silvermoon, the home they gave their lives to defend.

It would be good for BEs to get those customizations and it would also give them a '2-in-1' feeling that many BE players are complaining Void Elves are getting.

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so you mean everything that makes a blood elf look blood elf.

Every race (not just elves) are getting more skin colors/eye colors and hair colors, and while elf ears atm is only on Blood Elves there's no way that's going to be specific just to Blood Elves - it will most likely go to every elf type to be able to hide ears when wearing helmets.

Man, some people really don't like sharing do they? It's getting so obvious now. I'm glad Blizzard isn't serving that attitude.

[Ignaz]

thats where magic enters

And how do you explain that with real science?
Do you understand now?

Warlords video with Grom starving

and he died because of that?

they can hold up well

with inappropriate equipment, something that in the real world could not happen.

but there still examples of then dying by it, most in books, lord of the clans and frostwolf clan

a narrative contradiction to what you said above (twisted logic - not compatible with real science)

but you ca't change, all decisions are made by then, you like or not

And we (as people who pay for a product) have the right to ask for more. and they are obliged to listen to or lose customers (and it has been demonstrated with everything they are doing for Shadowlands). In a dictatorship you have no right to ask for anything.
It is not a dictatorship, it is pure capitalism haha

i can say that, if i want so, but it will not stop people doing it

Then, it is futile attempt.

not rly on my view

Of course

Its not me who say is a mistake, im saying that damaging the Faction identity is a mistake

Damage that you subjectively declare.

because they already said it was a mistake with pandarens, and never did again

until they did it with Velves

Void elves were created precisely to try to not damage and violate faction identity, with they having different characteristics and a completely different and opposite theme

and with the same model and now aesthetic of Belves (hypocrisy)

put all in the trash after all is done, to precisely violate even more, is a mistake

Your perception of '' faction identity '' continues to be violated (more now in Shadowlands) and will continue to be violated thanks to Blizzard's policies.

"faction identity" is more than just one is horde and the other is alliance, thats why with void elves their themes are different

Is your perception. For me, "faction identity" does not have to do with models, but with culture and politics.

only difference in "the game itself" was their eyes

...and the skin and the politics and the culture...

its a retcon, not a fallacy

It could be retcon if it were related to past events. but it's not like that. At no time in the history of wow have Black Helves been seen or mentioned.
Is a fallacy used to support an inclusive campaign.

we were talking about eye color, not skin color, and again, they were already born prior the use of fel crystals, you can't inherit something after you are born

We talk about the full spectrum of inheritable characteristics (genetics itself), where skin and eye color is included.
And it is not implicit, the skin was literally mentioned on multiple occasions during our debate

do you want me to proof that everything is related with the gene code someway somehow?

Not just related, relevant related. Proof please.

At the end of the day, everything in this universe is related by the simple fact of being within the perceptible reality, which does not mean that all that relation has relevance.

if thats how you see im sorry, buts not rly

It's not about how I see it, literally you are taking the genes as if they were game stats.

its shows that genes can be related to conditioning

source please.

and we can use that to compare things in wow

No, You can't.

precisely with the kul'tirans that we were talking about, to explain why they are different, but since we have ulfar quotes saying those kul'tirans are descendant from the drust we don't need that anymore

I don't remember having read / heard something like that. Source please.

[DeicideUH]

Thank you for this, so that seems to verify that Alliance HE will get purple eyes as an option yesss

Also the Human customization actually makes me happy to be a human character now.

The purple eye is awesome, thought I wish the high elf NPC version (with pupils) was also copied to void elves.

Well, I'm now eager for next build. I think we will see night elves or worgen next, as they are the two locked races right now (but worgen has been locked since start of alpha).

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Frankly I hope blood elves also get Dark Ranger customization options. I imagine it'd be very interesting to RP as a Dark Ranger who struggled between their loyalty to Sylvanas and their loyalty to Silvermoon, the home they gave their lives to defend.

I'm totally in favor of giving them red eyes. Fiery orange wouldn't be bad either.

[FlubberPuddy]

The purple eye is awesome, thought I wish the high elf NPC version (with pupils) was also copied to void elves.

Well, I'm now eager for next build. I think we will see night elves or worgen next, as they are the two locked races right now (but worgen has been locked since start of alpha).

Same, I actually do wish the High Elf NPC ones were available, would help differentiate the more magical elves with glowy eyes. Maybe further down the road , being able to mimic NPCs is finally starting to happen now.

Also eager to see what's next for character customization, honestly have been more eager for that than anything else. I try to avoid the new zone stuff on Alpha as I don't wanna be spoiled much there. Probably the only other thing I'm interested in are the legendaries and soulbind/conduit systems.

I hope we definitely get to see major customization options come to Night Elves and Worgen. We've seen a few previewed so far for both races, but I really hope Blizzard gives the Blood Elf/Human treatment (in terms of options available) to all races!

[Syegfryed]

And how do you explain that with real science?
Do you understand now?

magic just bend somethings, make exceptions, generally, i see no reason to not use

and he died because of that?

he would

with inappropriate equipment, something that in the real world could not happen.

it rly can, i saw one guy in tv who can do that and its fine

a narrative contradiction to what you said above (twisted logic - not compatible with real science)

i think we are just going around circles at this point

until they did it with Velves

velves are not like Pandaren

and with the same model and now aesthetic of Belves (hypocrisy)

but not with the theme, not with the rest of the race identity, Void elves still will be elves transformed and changed by the void, who will fight the whispers and use their powers

Your perception of '' faction identity '' continues to be violated (more now in Shadowlands) and will continue to be violated thanks to Blizzard's policies.

and like i said, just because things are done in a minor scale, trying to go for the middle ground between the fanbases(just giving the skin color) this don't mean things will or should "continue to be violated

Is your perception. For me, "faction identity" does not have to do with models, but with culture and politics.

Models also have to do with faction identity, a human belongs to alliance, like a dwarf, same as an orc or tauren belongs to the horde

culture and politics also have to do with faction identity, the race theme too

...and the skin and the politics and the culture...

the skin is a made up difference, they had the same skin color, their culture was still the same, thallassian elves of quel'thalas, yes they abandon their people to live with the alliance, but not rly enough to made another race and justify they being playable in another faction

It could be retcon if it were related to past events. but it's not like that. At no time in the history of wow have Black Helves been seen or mentioned
Is a fallacy used to support an inclusive campaign.

Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established diegetic 'facts' in the plot of a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former.

There are various motivations for applying retroactive continuity, including:

To accommodate desired aspects of sequels or derivative works which would otherwise be ruled out.
In response to negative fan reception of previous stories.
To correct and overcome errors or problems identified in the prior work since its publication.
To change how the prior work should be interpreted.
To match reality, when assumptions or projections of the future are later proven wrong

We talk about the full spectrum of inheritable characteristics (genetics itself), where skin and eye color is included.
And it is not implicit, the skin was literally mentioned on multiple occasions during our debate

And like i said, skin was never a canon difference between then

i will just end the previous thing "debate", cause we will never come to a consensus, you are either black and white about things in using reality x the game, i don't agree, i like to mix and try to compare things

I don't remember having read / heard something like that. Source please.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ulfar#Quotes

[Kyriani]

but since we have ulfar quotes saying those kul'tirans are descendant from the drust we don't need that anymore

Forgive me if I'm interrupting here but... we have no such quote from Ulfar.

The quote we have is:

We Thornspeakers joined Kul Tiran society. Some of their descendants heard the call of the wilds and wished to learn the ancient ways, and so we have taught them.

"We" indicates he does not consider himself Kul Tiran and it does not state nor imply that the Thornspeakers intermarried and produced offspring with Kul Tirans. That would be an assumption without evidence. "Their" indicates that he does not see the Kul Tirans as related to the Drust (Ulfar's race), else he would have said "our descendants" instead.

I believe there are also dev tweets that specifically say that Kul Tiran Humans are the same race as Stormwind Humans and the larger models were simply chosen for players to differentiate them from Stormwind Humans.

This makes sense considering most Kul Tiran Humans use the same model as Stormwind Humans. I will try to find the specific dev tweets again so you can read them for yourself.

[FlubberPuddy]

This makes sense considering most Kul Tiran Humans use the same model as Stormwind Humans. I will try to find the specific dev tweets again so you can read them for yourself.

Not just dev tweets, but interviews and even Afrasiabi himself on video (I think Blizzcon 2018) saying Kul'Tirans are humans. But Syegfryed doesn't care what multiple developers says when it doesn't agree with him. (watch him come back with some high elf remark, despite us getting High Elves meaning everything I said about developer commentary on High Elves being true).

[Ignaz]

magic just bend somethings, make exceptions, generally, i see no reason to not use

you have to see the whole picture; one thing alters the other. It is not like the developers have studied a whole compendium of physics to create the game.

Science is absolute even in its mistakes. It cannot apply to some things and not to others (the principle of causality is a clear example).

he would

But he did not die.

it rly can, i saw one guy in tv who can do that and its fine

Really? Let's not fall for the "I saw it on TV" game. If you want to proof something, you have to give sources and if you don't, what you say will be a mere invention.

I could well say that I chatted with Ion Hazzikostas via whatsapp, where he told me that the Helves are a race apart from the Belves and that they would be the new leaders of the alliance ... and that we would have Light Elves.

I'm not saying that there is no such "guy on TV with ice powers" but if it is real, it is an isolated case and you cannot use a phenomenon to explain normality

i think we are just going around circles at this point

I don't see circles, I see a straight line.

velves are not like Pandaren

symbolically they are

but not with the theme, not with the rest of the race identity, Void elves still will be elves transformed and changed by the void, who will fight the whispers and use their powers

so if that makes an elf what a Velf should be, it means that we had Velves for the horde during Legion (you know, shadow priests whispered to by a void entity and using her power).

and like i said, just because things are done in a minor scale, trying to go for the middle ground between the fanbases(just giving the skin color) this don't mean things will or should "continue to be violated

But "Your Faction Identity" will continue to be violated. not other s people faction identity

Models also have to do with faction identity, a human belongs to alliance, like a dwarf, same as an orc or tauren belongs to the horde

culture and politics also have to do with faction identity, the race theme too

That's your perception of faction identity. It's a very subjective concept.

the skin is a made up difference, they had the same skin color, their culture was still the same, thallassian elves of quel'thalas, yes they abandon their people to live with the alliance, but not rly enough to made another race and justify they being playable in another faction

How long does it take for an immigrant to adapt his culture to the culture of the host nation? Generations?
How long has it been since the Helves and Belves split up?

And as far as I understand, Helves have paler tones than Belves.

Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established diegetic 'facts' in the plot of a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former.

There are various motivations for applying retroactive continuity, including:

To accommodate desired aspects of sequels or derivative works which would otherwise be ruled out.
In response to negative fan reception of previous stories.
To correct and overcome errors or problems identified in the prior work since its publication.
To change how the prior work should be interpreted.
To match reality, when assumptions or projections of the future are later proven wrong

What did they adjust in the story? (narratively speaking)
No relevant character among the Helves have changed their skin color and even if they did, their skin color had no narrative weight in the story.

What continuity do they break by changing the skin of the characters? Is there a racial struggle?

And like i said, skin was never a canon difference between then

Likewise the difference exists

i will just end the previous thing "debate", cause we will never come to a consensus,

A consensus is not necessarily required for a debate to take place. The existence of the debate itself is proof of this.

you are either black and white about things in using reality x the game, i don't agree, i like to mix and try to compare things

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not right.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ulfar#Quotes

if you mean this line:

- We Thornspeakers joined Kul Tiran society. Some of their descendants heard the call of the wilds and wished to learn the ancient ways, and so we have taught them.
Nowhere is it made explicit or implicit that there was a biological cross between humans and Drust

And if you mean the history panel:

- Ulfar was among the Drust who disagreed to wage war against the human settlers thousands of years ago, prompting the Thornspeakers to leave the Drust and join Kul Tiran society. Some of the humans' Kul Tiran descendants heard the call of the wilds and sought to learn the ancient ways, which the Thornspeakers taught them. Now Ulfar is the only Drust Thornspeaker left.[3]

The same thing happens, there is no implicit or explicit sign that reveals any biological cross and if there is, please point it out.

[Syegfryed]

But he did not die.

he would

Really? Let's not fall for the "I saw it on TV" game. If you want to proof something, you have to give sources and if you don't, what you say will be a mere invention.

his name is Wim Hof

it is an isolated case and you cannot use a phenomenon to explain normality

i can use to explain exceptions, to explain some extremes and so on

I don't see circles, I see a straight line.

this also show the circle

symbolically they are

no, they aren't

so if that makes an elf what a Velf should be, it means that we had Velves for the horde during Legion (you know, shadow priests whispered to by a void entity and using her power).

blood elves priests using shadow magic and the xalatoth are not void elves, they are still blood elves with their own race thematic

you are confusing race and class

But "Your Faction Identity" will continue to be violated. not other s people faction identity

there is no different people faction identity, there is just one

That's your perception of faction identity. It's a very subjective concept.

it would be, if blizzard itself didn't already explained the concept of faction identity and explained the very reason why they didn't put high elves instead of void elves

How long does it take for an immigrant to adapt his culture to the culture of the host nation? Generations?

more than a few years?

How long has it been since the Helves and Belves split up?

by now, roughly 8 or 10 years

And as far as I understand, Helves have paler tones than Belves.

not a canon difference

What did they adjust in the story? (narratively speaking)
No relevant character among the Helves have changed their skin color and even if they did, their skin color had no narrative weight in the story.

What continuity do they break by changing the skin of the characters? Is there a racial struggle?

they retconed the elf skin color saying it was always like that, its what retcons do

Likewise the difference exists

nope

A consensus is not necessarily required for a debate to take place. The existence of the debate itself is proof of this.

and you suggest that we just drag this forever?

Nowhere is it made explicit or implicit that there was a biological cross between humans and Drust

If the drust went to live in the kul'tirans society,and Ulfar not, its obvious that there was crossbreed between then

of course he will say "kul'tirans descendants", it is not wrong, and did not contradict the previous statement, they are kul'tiran descendant and drust, this is more supported with only the big kul'tirans being druids, only the ones with drust characteristics

The same thing happens, there is no implicit or explicit sign that reveals any biological cross and if there is, please point it out.

except their obviously appearance resembling the drust aka the vrykul?

[Kyriani]

You're making assumptions based purely on the model. Assumptions that the devs don't seem to support:

https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/04/05...-day-jimmy-lo/

Travis: So, Thin Man and Fat Man are what we call them internally. And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans. So, generally, when we’re spawning up Kul Tiras on the design side, we looked at using them as kind of our… maybe it’s a little bit like, ‘The big guy’s the bouncer!’ Or, ‘The big guy’s the ruffian who’s got a little guy up by the neck! And then the little guy’s more the scoundrel and they’re always holding daggers or leanin’ up against something,’ and, I don’t know, it just gives us a little more flavor and texture to the world.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kul_Tiran_(playable)

Non-playable Kul Tiran human models include thin, normal and fat body types. The playable Kul Tirans use the fat body type. They are not intended to be a separate race, they are simply variants on Kul Tirans made because Blizzard wanted bigger and smaller models to fit the various NPC roles and add more flavor to the world. They are not biologically different from other humans.

They further added at BlizzCon 2018 that Kul Tirans tend to be big guys because they live a tough life, a sea-faring life, and so on. They wanted this to show in their physique, so they made (some of) them big. Once more, they thus did this for contextual and worldbuilding reasons.
All in all, Blizzard has affirmed and re-affirmed that Kul Tirans have different body types for completely different reasons, mainly variety.

But the Drust fantheory is very deeply ingrained. Which is weird because people don't try to come up with "explanations" for why some Kul Tirans are thin, only for why some Kul Tirans are big, so looks like the fanbase is pretty selective.

The answer is just that there is no "why". Kul Tirans have different body types because it made for a more realistic civilization.

Kul Tirans can be Druids because they learned from the Thornspeakers, not because the Thornspeakers begat offspring with Kul Tiran settlers.

[Ignaz]

he would

As long as it hasn't happened, everything remains as assumption

his name is Wim Hof

Wim Hof (besides being an isolated case) is a clear example of adaptation and not of inheritance. As scientific studies have shown, that man has developed a method of suppressing his immune system by endowing him not with resistance to cold, but with abolition of reaction to extreme cold.
In addition, Wim Hof uses a special breathing method accompanied by meditation that prepares him to control his body temperature through the use of brown fat as fuel to create heat through an instinctive process called bulgariously as "tremor."

His body is not even resistant to cold, since if he does not prepare himself, it was shown that he can suffer the same damage from exposure as other people.

Also, it remains an isolated case (an epidemiological phenomenon) that cannot be used as an example to compare a normal population.

this also show the circle

What circle? a straight line cannot make a circle (are you trolling?)

no, they aren't

Enlighten me.

blood elves priests using shadow magic and the xalatoth are not void elves, they are still blood elves with their own race thematic
you are confusing race and class

I'm not confusing anything, I'm using your analogy

there is no different people faction identity, there is just one

yours?

it would be, if blizzard itself didn't already explained the concept of faction identity and explained the very reason why they didn't put high elves instead of void elves

When they decreed the concept of faction identity? show me please.

more than a few years?

nope. if you don't adapt, you die. the world is hostile and if you have the luxury of taking `` more than a few years '' you will not be able to fit in.

by now, roughly 8 or 10 years

More than enough

not a canon difference

it's still a difference you can check. It doesn't have to be set in stone for you to see it

they retconed the elf skin color saying it was always like that, its what retcons do

You didn't answer any of my questions

What did they adjust in the story? (narratively speaking)
No relevant character among the Helves have changed their skin color and even if they did, their skin color had no narrative weight in the story.

What continuity do they break by changing the skin of the characters? Is there a racial struggle?

nope

Yes there is (tickle cheeks).

and you suggest that we just drag this forever?

until we both agree or either leaves. You choose.

If the drust went to live in the kul'tirans society,and Ulfar not, its obvious that there was crossbreed between then

wut!? prove it. what you say (to me) doesn't make sense.
It is like saying that if you see that a man and a woman enter a house alone, it is because they are going to have children. It's pure assumption not a fact.

of course he will say "kul'tirans descendants", it is not wrong, and did not contradict the previous statement, they are kul'tiran descendant and drust, this is more supported with only the big kul'tirans being druids, only the ones with drust characteristics

So why did Ulfar not say "our descendants" and only mention the kul'tiran.

except their obviously appearance resembling the drust aka the vrykul?

It is not a verifiable fact, just a coincidence until proven otherwise.
Who knows, at the rate we are going; even Blizzard could prove you right... someday.

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You're making assumptions based purely on the model. Assumptions that the devs don't seem to support:

https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/04/05...-day-jimmy-lo/
Travis: So, Thin Man and Fat Man are what we call them internally. And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans. So, generally, when we’re spawning up Kul Tiras on the design side, we looked at using them as kind of our… maybe it’s a little bit like, ‘The big guy’s the bouncer!’ Or, ‘The big guy’s the ruffian who’s got a little guy up by the neck! And then the little guy’s more the scoundrel and they’re always holding daggers or leanin’ up against something,’ and, I don’t know, it just gives us a little more flavor and texture to the world.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kul_Tiran_(playable)
Non-playable Kul Tiran human models include thin, normal and fat body types. The playable Kul Tirans use the fat body type. They are not intended to be a separate race, they are simply variants on Kul Tirans made because Blizzard wanted bigger and smaller models to fit the various NPC roles and add more flavor to the world. They are not biologically different from other humans.

@Syegfryed there is your "word of god"

[Syegfryed]

As long as it hasn't happened, everything remains as assumption

rly? come on now

Wim Hof (besides being an isolated case) is a clear example of adaptation and not of inheritance

if no one can condition himself in doing that, then its not just conditioning, and again, there is things that give you rpedisposition to that, and is everything ruled by the gene code, deletion and addition of genes

Enlighten me.

there is no symbolism here, pandaren in both factions are the same race

yours?

Blizzard

When they decreed the concept of faction identity? show me please.

when they were asked why void elves instead of high elves

nope. if you don't adapt, you die. the world is hostile and if you have the luxury of taking `` more than a few years '' you will not be able to fit in.

and sometimes you can just force adaptation to go quickly

More than enough

its sure isn't, even more with elves who are way egocentric to just became point ears humans in a few years

it's still a difference you can check. It doesn't have to be set in stone for you to see it

its not a vallid and canon difference, simple as that

You didn't answer any of my questions

your questions have nothing to do with he subject, its a retcon to add more colors to the elves, regardless of their reasons

just because there is inclusion reason, or whatever, don't mean its not a retcon of the elf skin color

until we both agree or either leaves. You choose.

we will never agree, and apparently no one will leave

wut!? prove it. what you say (to me) doesn't make sense.

if you put a small population inside another, is just the common way of things, like you said previously, it's still something you can check. It doesn't have to be set in stone for you to see it

So why did Ulfar not say "our descendants" and only mention the kul'tiran.

because he didn't have any descendants, there is no need for him to be included

and he said the thornspeeker descendants

It is not a verifiable fact, just a coincidence until proven otherwise.

suddenly a breed of humans reach 8ft+ and are way too close to the drust who joined their society long ago

sure a 'coincidence"

there is your "word of god"

not intended to be a separated race at first, don't mean they do not became a separated race later.

They in fact, became a different race, as an allied race;

And Ulfar quotes came after those interviews, Blizzard nowadays have a historic in backtracking what they say if make sense.

[Ignaz]

if no one can condition himself in doing that, then its not just conditioning

Actually, the studies carried out by scientists made it clear that it is conditioning, since other people have managed to match its results. they even carried out the same studies on his brother (who lived a sedentary life) after using the Wim Hof method; where they found no difference in their reaction.

there is things that give you rpedisposition to that

Nope. Read the whole case.

there is no symbolism here, pandaren in both factions are the same race

Thalassian elves in both factions? Wasn't that your premise?

Blizzard
when they were asked why void elves instead of high elves

Source, please.

and sometimes you can just force adaptation to go quickly

Exactly. If being an immigrant, you do not adapt quickly or combine your culture or even adopt the culture of another country; It can go so badly that you would have to return to your country of origin (on your own, at best) or live like a homeless person until someone else gives you a hand.

its sure isn't

so for you, an immigrant has to spend more than 10 years to adapt to a host nation. I am right?

even more with elves who are way egocentric to just became point ears humans in a few years

that they have survived so far proves otherwise

its not a vallid and canon difference, simple as that

but it's still a difference you can see.

your questions have nothing to do with he subject, its a retcon to add more colors to the elves, regardless of their reasons

just because there is inclusion reason, or whatever, don't mean its not a retcon of the elf skin color

It has to do and you do not answer it because I would throw down your point.

if not, answer me and prove otherwise.
Here I will leave it again to save you the search and I will also leave your data collection about retcon:

Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established diegetic 'facts' in the plot of a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former.

There are various motivations for applying retroactive continuity, including:

To accommodate desired aspects of sequels or derivative works which would otherwise be ruled out.
In response to negative fan reception of previous stories.
To correct and overcome errors or problems identified in the prior work since its publication.
To change how the prior work should be interpreted.
To match reality, when assumptions or projections of the future are later proven wrong

What did they adjust in the story? (narratively speaking)
No relevant character among the Helves have changed their skin color and even if they did, their skin color had no narrative weight in the story.

What continuity do they break by changing the skin of the characters? Is there a racial struggle?

we will never agree, and apparently no one will leave

Happy the day of our marriage then - I raise my glass -

if you put a small population inside another, is just the common way of things

So if you put a small population of lions in a pack of cats, they will breed. Absurd...

because he didn't have any descendants, there is no need for him to be included
and he said the thornspeeker descendants

He is speaking of two population groups, of which he belongs to one. Why should it not be included if he is not talking about individuals?

suddenly a breed of humans reach 8ft+ and are way too close to the drust who joined their society long ago

sure a 'coincidence"

not intended to be a separated race at first, don't mean they do not became a separated race later.

They in fact, became a different race, as an allied race;

And Ulfar quotes came after those interviews, Blizzard nowadays have a historic in backtracking what they say if make sense.

Do you care about ''the word of God'' only when it combines you?

That only reveals your double standards when fighting for all these years against people who say that Helves are a different race and tell them that ''the word of God'' says otherwise.

[Kyriani]

rly? come on now
not intended to be a separated race at first, don't mean they do not became a separated race later.

They in fact, became a different race, as an allied race;

And Ulfar quotes came after those interviews, Blizzard nowadays have a historic in backtracking what they say if make sense.

If Blizzard actually does go backtrack and add lore saying that modern Kul Tirans have some Drust ancestry then you'll be right... but until then you're just making assumptions based on circumstantial evidence that runs contrary to existing developer interviews.

And speaking of the interview, the date of that interview was Apr 5, 2018.

Since we know Blizzard starts working on expansions years before we ever see an alpha or beta, the Ulfar quote was likely already written before that interview, and even if it wasn't that doesn't change anything.

Again, if Blizzard later adds new lore saying that modern Kul Tirans share some Drust ancestry then you'll have a point but not before that happens. I'm not saying it can't be true. I'm just saying that until we have solid lore saying so, it's only an assumption right now.

[Kallisto]

Frankly I hope blood elves also get Dark Ranger customization options. I imagine it'd be very interesting to RP as a Dark Ranger who struggled between their loyalty to Sylvanas and their loyalty to Silvermoon, the home they gave their lives to defend.

After you kill N'zoth dark ranger Velonara is near the embassy and her tone is "fuck sylvanas, the Sin'dorei are my kin as much as the forsaken and many like me feel the same. "

(She's the same dark ranger that had Moorgoth listing over her in the hunter class hall.)

[Ardenaso]

Frankly I hope blood elves also get Dark Ranger customization options. I imagine it'd be very interesting to RP as a Dark Ranger who struggled between their loyalty to Sylvanas and their loyalty to Silvermoon, the home they gave their lives to defend.

Dark "Blood Knights" wouldn't make sense anymore since they're Red Silver Hand now, unless Blizzard makes it so they'll be TBC Blood Knights again

[matrix123mko]

Dark "Blood Knights" wouldn't make sense anymore since they're Red Silver Hand now, unless Blizzard makes it so they'll be TBC Blood Knights again

Bold of you to call them red. They often use blue tabards.

[Vaedan]

If the drust went to live in the kul'tirans society,and Ulfar not, its obvious that there was crossbreed between then

of course he will say "kul'tirans descendants", it is not wrong, and did not contradict the previous statement, they are kul'tiran descendant and drust, this is more supported with only the big kul'tirans being druids, only the ones with drust characteristics


except their obviously appearance resembling the drust aka the vrykul?

Except being druids is much more likely based on their culture and society, rather than race? You know, there is an orc druid NPC in Ashran, does it mean that orcs have "druidic" genes as well? Using this drust magic is again, given by a culture and a practise they were tought. Kul tiran druids were trained by thornspeakers, not by cenarion circle, so that they are the only one who wields this power. I'm pretty sure that if some gilneans would ask thornspeakers for training, they would be able to use drust druidism. They already did exactly the same thing with cenarion druidism.

Also, drust are said to be descendants of vrykul, but they are shown to look like humans in game. There is a quest where you go around old drust cairns and you invoke images of past. Drust are shown as humans (regular stormwindian model), not as vrykul. In that case, even if both group mix and have offsprings, they would be, again, human.

[Frenchvince]

OMG I want these hairstyles for the void elves , it would suit them too well !



I like the braids plated on the side, for a high-elf Ranger, it's perfect.

[Syegfryed]

Thalassian elves in both factions? Wasn't that your premise?

not the same race of elves in both factions?

Source, please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUik...outu.be&t=2780

Exactly. If being an immigrant, you do not adapt quickly or combine your culture or even adopt the culture of another country; It can go so badly that you would have to return to your country of origin (on your own, at best) or live like a homeless person until someone else gives you a hand.

And since elves are not forced and humans don't enforce that, and elves being egocentric as they are, we can rule out this theory

so for you, an immigrant has to spend more than 10 years to adapt to a host nation. I am right?

in the case of elves? mostly.

that they have survived so far proves otherwise

how they are showed ingame, just a thallasian elf, show they are not human elves yet

but it's still a difference you can see.

its not a real canon difference, then its pointless

It has to do and you do not answer it because I would throw down your point.

its right there, to "match reality" and to change how work(elf skin color) should be implemented

So if you put a small population of lions in a pack of cats, they will breed. Absurd...

if you put a small population of tigers, or vice versa, they will yeah

He is speaking of two population groups, of which he belongs to one. Why should it not be included if he is not talking about individuals?

because he did not went to live with the kul'tirans, and he do not have descendants

Do you care about ''the word of God'' only when it combines you?

do you? cause i always see people trowing out left and right that elves are different, besides they being exactly the same, and throwing out that kul'tirans and humans are exactly the same, besides their absurdly obvious difference, that is the double standard im seeing

Besides, nothing in the "word of god" rule out the kul'tiran having drust blood

- - - Updated - - -

If Blizzard actually does go backtrack and add lore saying that modern Kul Tirans have some Drust ancestry then you'll be right... but until then you're just making assumptions based on circumstantial evidence that runs contrary to existing developer interviews.

Ulfar quotes came after the interviews, and nothing in there rly proves they do not have drust ancestry/blood

Except being druids is much more likely based on their culture and society, rather than race?

then where is the normal and thin human drust? only the ones with the resemble of the drust are druids, too much of a "coincidence", especially with the ulfar quotes

Also, drust are said to be descendants of vrykul, but they are shown to look like humans in game. There is a quest where you go around old drust cairns and you invoke images of past. Drust are shown as humans (regular stormwindian model), not as vrykul. In that case, even if both group mix and have offsprings, they would be, again, human.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sef_Iwen is how to be a Drust with a female Vrykul model, Gorak tul is also showed to look like a Vrykul, in the artwork drust resembles vrykuls

and vrykuls are ''big humans'''' anyway