Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

For cities there is, or are you going to completely ignore Darnassus.. why would you post images of a night elf outpost and a druid outpost and claim that the night elves don't go back to their civilization aethethics when it comes to cities, when the only city they build is exactly that.

I literally mentioned Darnassus was the only exception, and again, it's just a part of Darnassus. Only the Temple of Elune and its surrounding are a throwback, the rest of the city follows the same druidic aesthetic every other NE settlement follows. It's pretty bizarre how you dismiss Lor'danel and Sylvaanar as outposts, when they are the ones consistent with the modern NE aesthetic as a whole -which show no signs of changing, at all- rather than ONE district of Darnassus?

Furthermore the outpost built happens at a time before arcane magic returns, presumably with arcane magic these night elves can do a whole lot more faster. But why would you build permanent homes of marble for something that is meant to be a temporary expedition outpost? Also it makes sense that we have that aesthetic for villages and towns like Auberdine and Lor'danel built for small posts in the period before the arcane returns. Now it has returned, what excuse can you use for night elves not building like Darnassus, Tel'anor, Meredil, Nar'thalas, Suramar or Zin'Azshari - places built by combining arcane magic with nature magic....?

Please.!

Because there's nothing to point out they would even want to! The failure of your premise is presuming that because they have allowed arcane back into their society, they are going to roll back all their cultural changes and go back to an imperial aesthetic, which makes no sense to what they are now!

Night Elves spent milenia distancing themselves from their imperial history, and not because you prefer those aesthetics is reason enough for them to roll back. Like for real, do you even like night elves for what they are, or do you just like them for what you want them to be? Because IMO it seems you just like the Highborne, which would be fair, but you keep trying to make the NE's something they just aren't.

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The silver jewelry (necklaces / earrings) have disappeared from the blood elf personalization, this is what is said in the comments.

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Has anyone confirmed this in game? cause IMO it seems more like a string name change considering there are new strings for jewelry up the list so IDK.

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You can check if the black hair color has been added for the void elves in character creation, we can quickly see it when Stiven moves the sliders.

Black hair has been on the data for VE's since legion (that's how some NPC's use it, also true for other races, it loads in WMV as a normal hair color) but IDK if Stiven's program differentiates between NPC or Playable options.

[FlubberPuddy]

I honestly don't care as long as they are willing to share blood elf customization options in exchange. In fact, make the normal Thalassian appearance shared between the races. Blood elves can get "light elf" options as a result.

It's more like some of the ornery posters in here who were like "Void Elves should stop asking for Blood Elf customizations!!" look super silly right now as there are many doing the opposite for Blood Elves and those posters don't seem to be throwing a fit over that.

The posters in that link also are continuing to ask for further customizations despite getting so many already and, yet again, those ornery posters are nowhere to be seen chiding the wowhead peeps continuing to ask for more for Blood Elves despite getting customizations already.

Shows how meek and weak their arguments like that are, and how normal it is for everyone to continue asking for more even after already getting things.

[Kyriani]

As a greedy player who has characters on both factions, I have no qualms with sharing Void Elf hairstyles with Blood Elves >_> My female Blood Elf priest would certainly look amazing with one of the Void Elf female hairstyles sans tentacles.



The blonde one on the left is the one I'd like most for my Blood Elf priest

[DeicideUH]

I just want natural hair colors for my void elf !
I leave them their body jewelry and their bracelets that are useless... xD

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The silver jewelry (necklaces / earrings) have disappeared from the blood elf personalization, this is what is said in the comments.

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The silver jewelry is still in the files, as well as silver bracelets. I think you'll have a toggle between gold and silver between all jewelry (bracelets, body, neck and so on), rather than gold and silver being options within the same selection.

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Has anyone confirmed this in game? cause IMO it seems more like a string name change considering there are new strings for jewelry up the list so IDK.

Servers still down.

[FlubberPuddy]

Servers still down.

Down until tomorrow, looks like High Elves be causing server problems

[Kyriani]

Down until tomorrow, looks like High Elves be causing server problems

Darn those dastardly High Elves!

[ravenmoon]

I literally mentioned Darnassus was the only exception, and again, it's just a part of Darnassus. Only the Temple of Elune and its surrounding are a throwback, the rest of the city follows the same druidic aesthetic every other NE settlement follows. It's pretty bizarre how you dismiss Lor'danel and Sylvaanar as outposts, when they are the ones consistent with the modern NE aesthetic as a whole -which show no signs of changing, at all- rather than ONE district of Darnassus?

the Nightborne haven't built anything in 10k years, are we going to say they can't build something like Suramar? Darnassus is a HUGE exception, because it is the only city built, the rest are camps, small settlements quickly built with no Highborne or arcane magic available. Do you honestly think if night elves build another city, it won't have a Temple to Elune, and it won't have beautiful pre-sundering style buildings - do you honestly think that the druids would build homes in a city when they prefer living in barrow dens and amongst nature? Darnssus they had no homes, only 1 HQ building - the rest of them were in the forests of Teldrassil and the wilds, itw as priests and civilians in the cities mainly.


I'm not the one trying to deny night elf stuff is night elven. Both the Darnassus, and Lor'danel are night elven, both Suramar and Auberdine, Tel'anor and Shal'anar, Zin'Azshari and the Temple of the moon Val'Sharah. Eldre'thalas. And I don't see why night elves will build rural village architecture stuff in a new city.

The type of architecture use depends on the situation , location and inhabitants and purpose. Also the means available.

You can't say night elves don't use their pre-sundering architecture, because of Darnassus, nor can you say because you see the type of buildings in Lor'danel, that they can't or won't do the type of buildings in Suramar or Tel'anor.

A lot stuff the night elves build in the pre-sundering and long vigil era is based on their means and function. Suramar, Eldre'thalas, Zin'Azshari all require arcane magic which the night elves of Darnassus have not been using till recent. Are we going to say the

Because there's nothing to point out they would even want to!

Says who? Is there anything to point out night elves are only locked to one type of building ? When you are shown a range of things that are all night elven? Darnassus, Surmar, Zin'Azshari, Eldre'thalas are all night elven, as is Abuerdine, Lor'danel, Astrannar - so is Meredil, Tel'anor - let's see what the major differences are.

The first batch are major cities - ofc they are going to look different from the second batch which are rural towns/villages built without one half the magic necessary for the other time. The last pair are urban towns.. that's the difference.. means and purpose.

The failure of your premise is presuming that because they have allowed arcane back into their society, they are going to roll back all their cultural changes and go back to an imperial aesthetic, which makes no sense to what they are now!

Seriously. You're not kidding me. Allowing arcane back and cultural changes as well as architectural styles are not necessarily related, but they can be.

Who's making an assumption here. Befor ethe arcane returns Darnassus is built, with all its pre-sundering type buildings quite there - proving to you that group still uses them. The arcane returning shows a lot of things. Firstly the highborne bring their own also very much kaldorei culture they carry on with. Secondly, buildings do not determine culture. Culture can determine buildings used, they cannot, what is built often depends on the people, and the means they have to do so.

You see non-Highborne and non-arcane culture night elves living in pre-sundering buildings, such as the Temple of the Moon and others where they can.

it's silly to think that night elves will only build things like Auberdeine and Lor'danel but not build structures like we see in Darnassus and Zin'Azshari. You have no evidence for that, and Darnassus proves the opposite is true.

Night Elves spent milenia distancing themselves from their imperial history, and not because you prefer those aesthetics is reason enough for them to roll back. Like for real, do you even like night elves for what they are, or do you just like them for what you want them to be? Because IMO it seems you just like the Highborne, which would be fair, but you keep trying to make the NE's something they just aren't.

Read my reply to Gurluas above, to understand what actually happened to night elves. Stop using the Long Vigil as some sort of excuse to claim Night elves won't live in or build great cities and pretty buildings. ANd yes I prefer those aesthetics, they are prettier and better. Night elves never hated their civilization nor did they hate the great things they did. They hated the destruction of their empire byt he legion, and greatly mourned the loss of their civilization. Their civilization wasn't evil, nor were their buildings nor were their people. The Legion is what was evil, and their addiction and reckless abuse is what they shun.

it's clear they don't shun arcane magic, we know exactly why it was banned, not because of some natural aversion or distaste for it, but because using it would bring back the Legion. Stop making assumptions about the night elves and trying to impose things on them to avoid or claim they can't get pretty buildings.

Night elves of Darnassus are no longer in the Long Vigil, and the Long Vigil was a required change to of lifestyle that was necessary to fulfil is purpose of ensuring the Legion could never return to Azeroth. It's over. Cities are back, arcane magic is back, why wouldn't they start building again. Why would they limit themselves to only rural buildings and life now they have access to more tools and don't have the same restrictions?

It's the same night elf around now that was around 10k years ago... the race hasn't changed. It's Thalassians that are elves that has changed, and Nightborne have changed a little.

The same night elves have done the lifestyle of both the long vigil and pre-sundering era, and neither are new, the long vigil way of living was not new to the night elves, it was from an earlier period before they built civilization and were being taught by Cenarius. That stage they were still discovering arcance magic and learning from the well, - that way of living is returned to with no cities and no civilization being built - it stays that way for 10k years, not because they don't want to restore their lives, but because they won't do so to fulfil the long vigil.

So, I'm not buying any of what you say.

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As a greedy player who has characters on both factions, I have no qualms with sharing Void Elf hairstyles with Blood Elves >_> My female Blood Elf priest would certainly look amazing with one of the Void Elf female hairstyles sans tentacles.



The blonde one on the left is the one I'd like most for my Blood Elf priest

I agree, but the far right Thalassian elf looks the most alluring of the lot, there is just something about dark skin and silver hair with blue eyes.

[Syegfryed]

I don't think so. I know so, because that's how it works in the real world. This is a perfect analogy to your arguments, here:

Not going to go with another of your games, give up

If that was true, he'd say our descendants, because Ulfar refers to the Thornspeakers as we, because they'd be of drust blood as well. But since Ulfar says their, it implies they're not descendants of the Thornspeaker drust.

No, we talked about the descendants of the drust who joined kul'tirans society, and went to live with then, Ulfar didn't went to live with then, ulfar didn't left descendants

its pretty straight up, it make no sense for the kul'tirans who are not descendants of old drust to hear the call of the wilds

Oh, I know your comments don't keep me from stopping responding to you. The thing is: only one of us is complaining about the other responding to them... and it's not me the one complaining.

ther eis lot of people complaining about here, if you didn't noticed

No, it's not. When you claim there is "not a single example" of a given event, you mean there are no exceptions to it.

Every time people say "all" and then to complete, say except, that means you include all except, another example, like "ther eis not a single mmmal who put eggs except the platypus, everyone in that movie died, "except X"

If you don't like, thats just your nitpicking showing off that you want to pick a fight, argue for argue with the minimum details disregarding everything else

no one is in a fucking jury or similar to talk in the minimum details of how you prefer things in the english language, not everyone is a native speaker and its a goddamn forum about warcraft

I don't think anyone is saying that high elves and blood elves are different in a biological sense. I know I'm not. When I say they're different 'races', I'm talking about where playable races are concerned.

and that is completely wrong since its your arbitrary and biased designation and hold no ground, since even pandarens are "the same playable race" not a "different playable race", in wow terms, and they are the only example who came close to the high/blood elf dilemma, not other allied races

[Kyriani]

I agree, but the far right Thalassian elf looks the most alluring of the lot, there is just something about dark skin and silver hair with blue eyes.

Oh I think any of them (with tentacles replaced with hair) would look great on Blood Elves in any combination of skin and hair colors! In fact... I think that if Blood Elves get the San'layn/Dark Ranger options, that ported VE hair in dark colors would really help create a great gothic look.

[Pheraz]

On the highborne kaldorei topic: I think I as a player who fell in love with the art style the the "lore fragments" by blizzard, am still utterly confused by the fact that the kaldorei abadonned arcane magic after Azsharas reign but still elune's moon magic seems to be somehow half light magic half arcane magic.
Maybe they should somehow throw in some explanation into the game that clears all the fog of Shendralar and playable kaldorei mages, Tyrande is gone in rage mode and Shandris taking up the leadership. Maybe she is more tolerant than Tyrande. Also let's see what "highborne"-esque customisations really come when night elves are finally selectable in the beta builds again.

On the high elf topic: I really hope they add some less "blue"/"purple" based hair colors for void elves. The skin and eyes are a very good start though.

[Syegfryed]

Because you affirm your positions based on probabilities.

and i think im free to do that

''maybe not the same case''? They are not the same cases, therefore the effect is different (according to the logic of wow).

they are beings infused with fel energy, the difference is how DH sucked a demon soul, i do think there is a possibility to remove it, like it happened with raw energy

Blizzard said what? The point of a debate is for two or more people to hold their point in an interaction where their ideas contrast.

Blizzard said blood and high elves are the same thing, sace race biologically and everything else, the only difference is their political allegiance, end.

this "discussion" came out because people think there is a big difference between races and playable races, and for then "playable races" receive a completely new meaning and therefore it can happen anyway

They literally have the same model with different skin. You couldn't tell them apart from their counterparts if they were wearing full armor

having the same model doesn't matter, they re still different races, there is difference on then

and I'm talking about cases where it happens, not where it doesn't happen. And again, Blizzard may say that elves have vocal cord in their anus but that doesn't mean that it has a relationship to real-world science.

this don't say we can't use some of the "real-world science" to explain some things

Where are the black Helves?

like i said, always existed

it is not. The common sense dictates that if the elves' eyes shine in X color depending on the magic that influences them, their original color (very early in life) is not blue.

there is a difference in eye color and eye glow color that people/blizzard messes up, Alleria eyes by example are green, but it glow blue

their "natural" color cn be anything, elves without magic in wc3 had white eyes

mutations are not artificial they are natural (can occur by artificial and external means). It is part of biology

thats why im saying is not a mutation is simple their natural reaction to magic

I can't, the wow Helves can.

in time, they can, they became wretched, fellblood and other examples

proof (with facts and sources)

already gave you examples of endomorph and ectomorph body type

that condition is part of what I told you earlier. in the world of genetics, there is more predisposition to suffer from a conditioning disease by combination of genes than an improvement. And your point (if you forgot) was about genetic improvements that give you advantages over other people in which I maintain that the genens do not work that way.

they sure do, if you put then in a more macro-escale and take your time, is how the process of evolution goes, couple of genes give characters that give advantage to other species, there is tons of examples of species with a couple of genes who give then a better time in camouflage than others

will continue to beat the one who does the exercises correctly

and thats the point, the two to the same exercises, in the same way, all of then correctly with the same time and all else, one will get ahead anyway

[Doffen]

Maybe they should somehow throw in some explanation into the game that clears all the fog of Shendralar and playable kaldorei mages, Tyrande is gone in rage mode and Shandris taking up the leadership. Maybe she is more tolerant than Tyrande.

You mean like this from cata? Should have been shown it a more clearly ingame, for sure.

"However, after the Cataclysm, the Shen'dralar under leadership of archmage Mordent Evenshade negotiated successfully to rejoin their kaldorei brethren in Teldrassil."

Following the successful negotiations between Mordent Evenshade, and Tyrande Whisperwind and Malfurion Stormrage, the Shen'dralar Highborne have rejoined the night elves and has started to train them back into the way of magic and arcane.[14] The Highborne were given a green, secluded area next to the Temple of the Moon to dwell in.

[Frenchvince]

The silver jewelry is still in the files, as well as silver bracelets. I think you'll have a toggle between gold and silver between all jewelry (bracelets, body, neck and so on), rather than gold and silver being options within the same selection.

This kind of option is interesting, it will surely be a gold / silver slider.
they would have to do exactly the same for the void elves hairstyles, a slider "with or without tentacles".

[Pheraz]

You mean like they did in cata?

"However, after the Cataclysm, the Shen'dralar under leadership of archmage Mordent Evenshade negotiated successfully to rejoin their kaldorei brethren in Teldrassil."

Following the successful negotiations between Mordent Evenshade, and Tyrande Whisperwind and Malfurion Stormrage, the Shen'dralar Highborne have rejoined the night elves and has started to train them back into the way of magic and arcane.[14] The Highborne were given a green, secluded area next to the Temple of the Moon to dwell in.

Yes yes I know. Sorry to be this vague. I meant that they should make it MORE visible than this little event where mordent stood in the temple of the moon and the little hub in feralas. A little bit more than this. Maybe when they add a Kaldorei Heritage set. Like exploring the race identity and so on

[Doffen]

Yes yes I know. Sorry to be this vague. I meant that they should make it MORE visible than this little event where mordent stood in the temple of the moon and the little hub in feralas. A little bit more than this. Maybe when they add a Kaldorei Heritage set. Like exploring the race identity and so on

Yeah, I could see from your profile here on the side alone that you knew, hah, I was afraid to be blunt here so I edited another sentence to express myself a little bit better.

Agree with you, I think they can and should show a little bit more of the different kind of "sub versions", not only for Night Elves, but for all races.

[Lahis]

For cities there is, or are you going to completely ignore Darnassus.. why would you post images of a night elf outpost and a druid outpost and claim that the night elves don't go back to their civilization aethethics when it comes to cities, when the only city they build is exactly that.

Darnassus had only one building that harkened back to the empire style, and that was the Temple of Elune. Rest of the city was in modern naturalistic Night Elven architecture.

[Lorca]

And then you proceed to quote me where I said exactly that. Seriously, do you have some trouble comprehending english? Is english not your first language, or something? I'm honestly curious.

From now I think I should take all your answers as if you were just kidding. As you couldn't be serious. How is “exactly that” when it isn’t the same exact words?

And are you being elitist again now implying that I could have a problem understanding English in the case it wasn’t my mother tongue? Shouldn’t I be posting here then? Oh my, oh my. By the way, you are one using here English words wrongly, by not knowing their conventional meaning.

Yeah, yeah... Previous account got deleted. Sure. Right. Mmhm. Making unfalsifiable claims now? Your account here exists since 2019... and only now you decide to start posting in this thread, despite claiming you've been here "for some time". Your arguing over terms and definitions that have been discussed 'ad nauseum' in this thread really shines a questioning light on that claim. It seems this "here for some time" means "here since two weeks ago".

If you are going to use latinisms you get from the internet without probably knowing any Latin, at least copy them correctly. That fallacy is called ad nauseam and not ‘ad nauseum’. You are not smarter for using words you don’t even know. And I didn’t use that fallacy at any moment. This discussion resolves around naming, and thus, my friend, talking about the terminology and the definition of it is what it is about, therefore I am not off topic.

“Here for some time” doesn’t obviously mean “two weeks”.

I don’t know if the posts of deleted accounts get also deleted, but you can check for the account called Vlindrel here and you’ll see the writing is the same if there are still posts.

It is, because the difference between 'rename' and 'rebrand' in this context is meaningless.

It is, firstly because of precision and using the language correctly, and secondly it is also relevant as rebrand as an action would work for organizations but not for races, which was what you did. Thus, as I told you, maybe you are thinking about the Blood Elves and High Elves just as the same race, but being different organizations.

You haven't, and I explained why.

I did quoting you directly and your explanation was just saying this very thing you are saying again “I didn’t”, which doesn’t help you in your defense in any way.

Yeah, and now you seem to have a problem with staying on topic and avoiding ad-hominem.

I don’t have any problem with staying at topic. You are the one not answering to all the explanations I am giving you about the naming of both Pandaren groups and both Thalassian Elves groups working exactly the same from a pragmatical point of view. You just don’t accept and neither refute my thesis of the naming working exactly the same on that linguistical level and you just keep jumping to other things. I am answering, in fact, to each of your full sentences. So, no, I am not going off topic.

Also, again, please, stop using latinisms wrongly all the time. How am I using the ad hominem fallacy now? I am not going off topic, I am answering to each of your sentences. And I am not attacking your person to show and demonstrate that your thesis or arguments are wrong or lack of logic. Which is how the ad hominem fallacy works, just for you to know.

No. I did not. That wasn't a "hey guys! back me up here!" statement. That was my opinion.

It was clearly implied. It’s about the implicatures. Read P. Grice, it may help you.

You mean you don't. Several times I explained to you what I meant, and what I'm saying, and yet you still accuse me of lying. You've demonstrated, several times, how you did not comprehend what I wrote.

And to further evidence how you're just here to be arrogant and not have an honest discussion, when I admitted to the possibility of misunderstanding what you meant and asked for clarification, you doubled-down and called me a 'liar' again.

You’ve been omitting parts of what you said, you are also quoting me partially, ignoring big parts of my answers, you are contradiction yourself manifestly as I showed you by quoting your full affirmations. You didn’t demonstrate anything, you just keep saying that you did, but that doesn’t work like that.

I am here to discuss whatever you want to discuss, but being precise and at least polite. And you haven’t been neither go those. You have been putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say. And I am sorry, but that’s not the way a proper discussion works. The moment you are not respecting me, I am going to be highly critical with you. Where did you “admitted to the possibility of misunderstanding what you meant and asked for clarification”? Also, contextualize it, please.

Glad you agree. We're heading somewhere.

Again, half-quoting me. And you pretend to be willing to have honest and proper discussions here, sure.

The problem here is that you arrogantly presume I'm lying when the much simpler answer (Occam's razor, ever heard of that?) is that I may have misunderstood your statements. But no. You start by accusing me of being a liar, and double-downs on that assertion, even when I give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you're misunderstanding me.

No, the most simpler answer is not that you misunderstood anything. If you had misunderstood something, then you would have told me “I misunderstood X of what you said, sorry”. But you didn’t literally EVER do that.

You are the one being arrogant here, not wanting to accept since the very beginning that in a linguistical and pragmatical level the naming in the case of the Pandaren groups and the Thalassian Elves groups works exactly the same. I gave you plenty arguments for that, and I explained it different ways, and you couldn’t refute that thesis with any of your arguments -being your strongest one the one defending that you just call the Pandaren the way the game does-.

[kingarthas]

So, if elf eyes shine the magic they consumed and high elves are not addicted to magic. how can they have blue eyes? Isn’t blue eyes stand for arcane or mana- old sunwell- ?

[Doffen]

I don’t know if the posts of deleted accounts get also deleted, but you can check for the account called Vlindrel here and you’ll see the writing is the same if there are still posts.

Just saying about this part, we can see your post, and if someone have quoted you before we can see they quoted "Vlindrel" but when we click on the quote, then we get to a post, which is there still, but the user is set as deleted. But a quick search does not show you being in this particular thread before. But that's maybe beside your point.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/search....rchid=64783837

So people can only see your old name if quoted, if not it's of course hard to see which user that "deleted user" refers to :P

[Gaidax]

So, if elf eyes shine the magic they consumed and high elves are not addicted to magic. how can they have blue eyes? Isn’t blue eyes stand for arcane or mana- old sunwell- ?

There is a whole grey area there that is better left as is.