Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

Well, this is ridiculous. It is clear that any dialogue with you is pointless

its pointless because one, we will not change stances and two, none of this rly matters

we can discuss all we want about their differences but in the end of the day kul'tirans are not like helves, therefore we should not say they are the same

Well, you didn't say it openly, but what are you clamining, that druidism is racial thing, which you inhert from your ancestors, pretty much imply that.

Once again, i never did that, i only point out the blatantly and obvious "coincidence" that just the fat kul'tirans are druids, just the ones who look like drust

Gilneans were druids long before curse. They called themselves harvest witches and were practising druidism for long time.

they were not druids per say, they only hold minor power over nature magic, and only the ones with the curse can shapeshift and do other druidic things

Now, are gilneans any different to other humans?

well, they can turn themselves into werewolves, thats pretty much different

and I never said that this is coincidence. Clearly it is not, but as I said many times, it is cultural thing, not racial.

if it was just cultural we could see normal kul'tirans humans druids, but there are none

unless you are saying those kul'tirans have different cultures from the other kul'tirans

No, this is you twisting what he says. Ulfar words:

And again, he talk about their descendants, who descendants if not the drust who joined their society? kul'tiran descendants? why? it make no sense to be kul'tirans descendants, since they are still kul'tirans and had nothing to do with the thornspekers before

the descendants of the thornspeeker hearing the call of the wild? that makes sense.

Yes, it is not pointed out... but then again, you are pretty familiar with putting speculations into conversation and taking them as granted. Now you see that this approach does not really work.

only if the speculation come from something who make sense, kul'tirans have nothing to do with Jews neither had nothing against mixing blood

So while you have only vague evidence that drust MAY have mixed,

vague evidence you mean their appearance, constitution and ulfar quotes, lets make it clear

I have lots of evidence from various vrykul groups that they most likely would not like to mix with anything other than vrykul

but the group of vrykul in question did joined the humans, so? they clearly have no problem with then

Yes, they are different variant of humans, but as it's been clarified by devs, they are different because of different environments and different culture. They are not considered different race by them. While having drust ancestry is attractive theory, it is clearly not important for devs while they created them. If would, we would have way more evidence regarding this than one vague quote from the last living drust.

And again, regardless of the drust theory, they are still another variant of human, not just by culture, thats the point, and because of that, they are not like the high elves

- - - Updated - - -

None of that takes for granted that they are a different race. It will be verified when they procreate and their children inherit those same characteristics. until then, they are just another playable race (just like pandaren).

for someone talking about the fallacies of blizzard, this is the perfectionist fallacy you know?

anyway they did. with pandaren and thalassian elves

And there is the grostcralwer comment of how they(blizzard) didn't like pandaren, Ion pretty much stated that the same race in both faction, regardless if people think they have a totally different culture hurt the faction identity and blur the faction lines.

Blood elves and void elves are clearly different races, not just in "different culture", there is a fundamental difference in their theme, unlike pandaren, who do not hurt the race/faction identity.

I gave you many opportunities to prove your point by only answering two simple questions, you didn't. You will be in front of people who will read and identify you as someone who is not capable of analyzing a question or as a manipulator.

its pretty funny being called a manipulator by you expositor, not gonna lie

Helf supporters / sympathizers talking about humans. I don't see the coincidence

they want things to stand on, if they say kul'tirans and humans are the exact same race with no difference except "culture", this will be fuel for then to say its totally possible and valid to add high elves as a standalone allied race because there is other allied races who are exact the same, ignoring those others are in the same faction and ignoring other variables.

[BB8]

So do void elf get the skin and hair color tones of blood elves too?

[Vaedan]

So do void elf get the skin and hair color tones of blood elves too?

Only skin color tones are confirmed now. It is possible they get some of blood elf hair colors too.

[Ignaz]

I'm guilty of that as well, it happens!

But I agree with @MyWholeLifeIsThunder , also that whenever someone's goal is simply to have the last word, they will twist/decontextualize anything to keep it going. Since the goal is to keep it going by having the last word.

that's true

- - - Updated - - -

for someone talking about the fallacies of blizzard, this is the perfectionist fallacy you know?

the perfectionist fallac… what?

And there is the grostcralwer comment of how they(blizzard) didn't like pandaren, Ion pretty much stated that the same race in both faction, regardless if people think they have a totally different culture hurt the faction identity and blur the faction lines.

Well it seems that they ended up liking it.

its pretty funny being called a manipulator by you expositor, not gonna lie

I love that you see the humor in the situation, that even highlights my point.

they want things to stand on, if they say kul'tirans and humans are the exact same race with no difference except "culture", this will be fuel for then to say its totally possible and valid to add high elves as a standalone allied race because there is other allied races who are exact the same, ignoring those others are in the same faction and ignoring other variables.

Conspiracy?
Don't be self-centered, there is no "all against me because I'm on the opposite side". You make a wrong grammatical interpretation (that anyone can make) and everyone points it out to you.
It is not an ancestral text that requires 1001 interpretations, it is a one-way paragraph and very easy to understand.

[Edoll]

Is it possible to look up stats of how many times individual users have posted in this thread? I’m curious how many of these 1,000 pages are made by a handful of people.

[Edward Wu]

I don't know why they didn't announce Void Elves also getting the High Elf hair colors, and why they are taking so long to show the full scope of HE customization and/or address the hair color concerns.

[Kyriani]

I don't know why they didn't announce Void Elves also getting the High Elf hair colors, and why they are taking so long to show the full scope of HE customization and/or address the hair color concerns.

Well Ion did say that it was a recent decision, as in it was a course change right after the interview where he said blue eyes were for NPC's only. They hadn't even made the skin textures using the void elf underwear yet as we can see in the teaser announcement post, so that shows how recent the decision was. The texture work may be at the end of the pipeline of things to be done. Just because they announced it now doesn't mean they have to fast track it to the head of the queue. It'll get on alpha eventually.

As to the hair colors, that's something they may still be deciding on what do with, or they may be deciding exactly what colors they plan to give and didn't want to mention it till they had the details ironed out. Again it shows how recent the decision was. We did see one of the male void elves sporting black hair in the teaser though. So that might be an indication of one of the colors Void Elves will receive.

I'm eager to see the changes hit alpha as well though, and I hope it won't take too long until I can play with them in the dressing room. We just have to be patient.

[FlubberPuddy]

Is it possible to look up stats of how many times individual users have posted in this thread? I’m curious how many of these 1,000 pages are made by a handful of people.

Yes, so when you go here https://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/...al-Discussions

You're able to see the thread titles, to the right --->> there's a Replies that shows how many posts, and you can click the number to see who has made how many individual posts in this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

Male High Elf NPCs have been updated with new blue eyes.

Before / after

Beautiful!!! Now this makes me think we're more likely than not to also get those hair colors these High Elves are sporting.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm eager to see the changes hit alpha as well though, and I hope it won't take too long until I can play with them in the dressing room. We just have to be patient.

Exactly, I can get pretty restless myself, but patience is the key. I mean look at the amazing customization that came to NE recently, especially females omg

[Kyriani]

Exactly, I can get pretty restless myself, but patience is the key. I mean look at the amazing customization that came to NE recently, especially females omg

Agreed! I mean, it's killing me every time an alpha update hits and I still can't play with the new skins in the dressing room, but who knows what will come with them?! It might be more than just the skins! It might be new hair colors too! Or even, and this is an idea I saw bandied about on the official forums, what if they add a toggle like the Night Elf leaves but for the the tentacles in the hair so you can make them visible or not? That would be super cool imo! I believe Talendrion even confirmed that the tentacles aren't actually part of the hair models and can be removed without leaving holes. That would add several hairstyle options for those seeking a more High Elf look, especially if paired with more traditional hair colors.


CLICK TO ENBIGGEN!

[Varodoc]

The new eyes look... you know... blue... I don't know what color those old eyes were but that ain't blue.

[Kyriani]

Here's a quick and dirty photoshop recolor I did of one of the previous no-more-tentacles hairstyles. I admit the colors aren't great but as I said it was quick and dirty just as a proof of concept.



The ability to toggle the tentacles on or off opens up quite a few more options for a High Elf look when coupled with a broader range of hair colors.

[Ielenia]

Not going to go with another of your games, give up

It's a "game". It's an analogy of our discussion.

No, we talked about the descendants of the drust who joined kul'tirans society, and went to live with then, Ulfar didn't went to live with then, ulfar didn't left descendants

its pretty straight up, it make no sense for the kul'tirans who are not descendants of old drust to hear the call of the wilds

He is still drust. And Ulfar says, in no uncertain terms, "We Thornspeakers joined Kul Tiran society", and then immediately follows that with "their descendants", which means he's talking about the Kul Tiran descendants, not the drust descendants. If he was, he'd have said "our descendants" because Ulfar is a thornspeaker drust, too.

ther eis lot of people complaining about here, if you didn't noticed

Yeah, but what "other people" are doing is immaterial to this conversation between you and me. You can leave this conversation at any time you want. The thing is: you don't want to back off. But I'll remind you: I have no power to keep you here. You're the only one "forcing" yourself to continue this conversation.

Every time people say "all" and then to complete, say except, that means you include all except, another example, like "ther eis not a single mmmal who put eggs except the platypus, everyone in that movie died, "except X"

Except you didn't say "except X". This is the entirety of your reply when you made your claim:

they still are a different thing all together

like is aid there is not a single example of the same race, with no fundamental difference

Notice the complete lack of "except X".

and that is completely wrong since its your arbitrary and biased designation and hold no ground,

They actually hold a lot of ground. You ignoring them does not suddenly Thanos-snap them out of existence. We have examples of a playable race of the same race, playable on opposite factions, like the pandaren. Then we have examples of members of the same race, but forcefully mutated, in opposite factions, as is the case of void elves and nightborne. The nightborne have been confirmed to be an actual new race, since we see nightborne children, and they look like nightborne, not night elves. The void elves, though, we still have no concrete proof that they're an actual new race, and not just blood elves with void powers, who would have normal blood elf children. That's assuming they can have children, of course, that the experiment that made them into void elves didn't make them sterile.

since even pandarens are "the same playable race" not a "different playable race", in wow terms, and they are the only example who came close to the high/blood elf dilemma, not other allied races

And the pandaren are a few steps above of what playable high elves would be, since it's highly unlikely high elves would have the same class choices, racials, racial mount and starting zone as the blood elves. If the pandaren, a playable race that is such at that high level of similarity, are available, then that means the high elves, by the apparent rules observed in the current playable races and allied races, are technically possible.

- - - Updated - - -

From now I think I should take all your answers as if you were just kidding. As you couldn't be serious. How is “exactly that” when it isn’t the same exact words?

They are the exact same words. I literally copy-pasted what I wrote.

If you are going to use latinisms you get from the internet without probably knowing any Latin, at least copy them correctly. That fallacy is called ad nauseam and not ‘ad nauseum’. You are not smarter for using words you don’t even know.

Now who's the one being an elitist right now?

And I didn’t use that fallacy at any moment. This discussion resolves around naming, and thus, my friend, talking about the terminology and the definition of it is what it is about, therefore I am not off topic.

Funny. I don't recall accusing you of any fallacy in that quote, nor have I accused you of going off-topic. But, repeating what you SHOULD have addressed: you're trying to argue terms and definitions that have already been discussed multiple times in this thread. If you really have been in this thread for "some time" you would have seen those terms and definitions being discussed at least once, in the past. But you never chimed in. Only now you decide to enter the thread, and argue in a way that completely ignores all that has been discussed in the past. Which is why I doubt your claims about having a "deleted account" and that you have been here for "some time".

It is, firstly because of precision and using the language correctly, and secondly it is also relevant as rebrand as an action would work for organizations but not for races, which was what you did.

I repeat: now who's the one being an elitist right now? The difference in the words don't matter in this context, because the word 'rebrand' still gets the point across without any issues.

I did quoting you directly and your explanation was just saying this very thing you are saying again “I didn’t”, which doesn’t help you in your defense in any way.

I never lied in this discussion. That's a fact.

I don’t have any problem with staying at topic. You are the one not answering to all the explanations I am giving you about the naming of both Pandaren groups and both Thalassian Elves groups working exactly the same from a pragmatical point of view.

I've already answered your questions. I call the high elves because the game and lore addresses them as high elves and because the game and lore addresses the blood elves as blood elves. And I call the pandaren 'pandaren' because that's how the game and lore addresses them. Huojin and Tushui are not "rebrands" of a race, but simply names of their groups, like Silver Covenant and Sunreavers. High elf and blood elf, on the other hand, are names by which high elves and blood elves call their race, respectively.

Also, again, please, stop using latinisms wrongly all the time.

I repeat, again: now who's the one being an elitist right now?

It was clearly implied. It’s about the implicatures. Read P. Grice, it may help you.

No, it was not implied, at all. This just your assumption, and I do hope you know what they say about 'assumptions'.

[quote]You’ve been omitting parts of what you said, you are also quoting me partially, ignoring big parts of my answers, you are contradiction yourself manifestly as I showed you by quoting your full affirmations. You didn’t demonstrate anything, you just keep saying that you did, but that doesn’t work like that.

I am here to discuss whatever you want to discuss, but being precise and at least polite. And you haven’t been neither go those.

Then you apparently don't know what the word "polite" means, if you think it's "polite" to call others 'little children' and 'cowards'. I didn't insult you a single time, though.

You have been putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say.

Says the guy who actually put words in my proverbial mouth, twice already, both with your accusations of "implications".

No, the most simpler answer is not that you misunderstood anything. If you had misunderstood something, then you would have told me “I misunderstood X of what you said, sorry”. But you didn’t literally EVER do that.

You do know that's not how it always works, right? If I misunderstand something, but I do not realize that I misunderstood it, then of course I'm not going to ask for clarifications. And since you decided to (wrongly) grandstand as being the "polite" one in this conversation, here's some news for you: a "polite person" would not outright accuse someone of lying without first asking if they did not understand what you wrote. A "polite person" would not insult others by calling them "little children" or "cowards".

- - - Updated - - -

Ulfar quotes came after the interviews, and nothing in there rly proves they do not have drust ancestry/blood

That's not how it works. When you make a claim, it's your burden to prove it with conclusive evidence. Your claim does not necessarily becomes "true" and "correct" just because there is nothing saying your theory is wrong. For context, the claim "I have an invisible pink pixie sprite living in my garage" does not automatically become true just because you cannot prove I don't have an "invisible pink pixie sprite" living in my garage.

[FlubberPuddy]

Agreed! I mean, it's killing me every time an alpha update hits and I still can't play with the new skins in the dressing room, but who knows what will come with them?! It might be more than just the skins! It might be new hair colors too! Or even, and this is an idea I saw bandied about on the official forums, what if they add a toggle like the Night Elf leaves but for the the tentacles in the hair so you can make them visible or not? That would be super cool imo! I believe Talendrion even confirmed that the tentacles aren't actually part of the hair models and can be removed without leaving holes. That would add several hairstyle options for those seeking a more High Elf look, especially if paired with more traditional hair colors.


CLICK TO ENBIGGEN!

YES I LOVE THIS!!!

For males I'd love it so much if those last two hairstyles without tentacles actually existed. I think that would help a LOT actually, being able to not have tentacles. Especially since some hairstyles already do not have tentacles in them.

Shadowlands seems to be a lot about player choice when it comes to character customization (such as picking ear sizes for elves and separation of eye colors from faces etc!) so I hope Blizzard lets players have this choice as well!

- - - Updated - - -

The ability to toggle the tentacles on or off opens up quite a few more options for a High Elf look when coupled with a broader range of hair colors.

Mmmhmm and it also keeps hairstyles looking unique between Blood Elves and Void Elves! For anyone who would stamp their feet at BE/VE sharing hairstyles

[hitman84]

I don't know why they didn't announce Void Elves also getting the High Elf hair colors, and why they are taking so long to show the full scope of HE customization and/or address the hair color concerns.

They're also adopting the new VE skin tones to their proper underwear. This is the only race they're having to do that with considering its a copy from the other.

[Frenchvince]

Agreed! I mean, it's killing me every time an alpha update hits and I still can't play with the new skins in the dressing room, but who knows what will come with them?! It might be more than just the skins! It might be new hair colors too! Or even, and this is an idea I saw bandied about on the official forums, what if they add a toggle like the Night Elf leaves but for the the tentacles in the hair so you can make them visible or not? That would be super cool imo! I believe Talendrion even confirmed that the tentacles aren't actually part of the hair models and can be removed without leaving holes. That would add several hairstyle options for those seeking a more High Elf look, especially if paired with more traditional hair colors.


CLICK TO ENBIGGEN!

This is exactly the option that many people would like for the void elves, to display or not display the tentacles, much the same way that the forsaken will display or not their bones. <3

But the natural hair colors are what I would really like Blizzard to add to look high elf.

[DeicideUH]

I don't know why they didn't announce Void Elves also getting the High Elf hair colors, and why they are taking so long to show the full scope of HE customization and/or address the hair color concerns.

The decision concerning void elves is quite recent, so its implementation went to the end of production line. It will take a while.

[Syegfryed]

which means he's talking about the Kul Tiran descendants, not the drust descendants. If he was, he'd have said "our descendants" because Ulfar is a thornspeaker drust, too.

look who is back lol, and again, it make no sense for the kul'tiran descendants to hear the call of the thornspeeker, since they are kul'tirans anyway and never had contact with their druidism, but it make sense of the thornspeaker descendants to hear it since is something related to their ancestors

Except you didn't say "except X". This is the entirety of your reply when you made your claim:

no, i did say like 2 times before, so the point was already made, you are just nitpicking

We have examples of a playable race of the same race, playable on opposite factions, like the pandaren.

And they are not considered different "playable races" in your arbitrary designation that you want to apply on the high/blood elves, therefore, if pandarens are not "different playable races" neither blood and high elves are

That's not how it works. When you make a claim, it's your burden to prove it with conclusive evidence.

1)ulfar quotes
2)their appearance
3) only then being able to be druids

thats pretty enough evidence for me, if its not for you, agree to disagree

[Doffen]

Yes, so when you go here https://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/...al-Discussions

You're able to see the thread titles, to the right --->> there's a Replies that shows how many posts, and you can click the number to see who has made how many individual posts in this thread.

And the winner is!! :P

Nr 1 and 2 are kinda ahead of the rest of the bunch.

Thanks for that info, did not know that lol(the reply thing)

[Syegfryed]

the perfectionist fallac… what?

When you think only a "perfect" solution/proof is valide, when something does not require a perfection

Well it seems that they ended up liking it.

Seeing the fact they never end up doing a neutral race again, and firmly going against the idea of blurring the faction lines when asked, and since pandarens are in the limbo of the race development getting nothing since their introduction... does not look like they end up liking it.

I love that you see the humor in the situation, that even highlights my point.

you have no idea, you think you are the first one or something?

Conspiracy?

nope, just cold reality, saw a lot of arguments saying exactly that, why do you think kul'tirans discussion come up here in the first place? exactly because people used as an argument of "same race only with cultural differences" can be playable look at kul'tiran high elves are totally possible because of that!!1!!1!

[Edward Wu]

Man, VE females are hella erotic. Their lingerie is straight up coomer fantasy.