Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

1) appearance
2) racials
2) 2700 years of generations

but those are not enough for you

Because, from a unbiased perspective, none of those are conclusive evidence. Appearance, racials and number of generations, none of those, even put together, point conclusively to what you're insisting they do.

and he isn't speaking about demographics,

Yes, he is. The entire time he says "we", "we", "we". The only time he says "they" is when he refers to the "descendants'.

Because druids are like that, they are hermit, nothing implies he changing his habits so isn't valid

So now you have argued yourself into a corner:
• If the druids are hermits, that means the other Thornspeakers also are hermits. But if they are hermits, how could they have children with the Kul Tiran humans? Because you're arguing that Ulfar didn't leave descendants because he's a hermit, then that means none of the Thornspeakers left descendants.
• But if the thornspeakers still could have children with the Kul Tirans despite being hermits, it begs the question: why do you think Ulfar did not do the same?

it definitely favored the humans, thats why they are majority,

Wrong. Completely wrong. You're affirming your premise is true (environment favors humans) because the conclusion is true (humans are majority). That's backwards. That's a major fallacy.

they did show as a small group, druid organizations like that are small and marginalized

Irrelevant. You have to not only show that the Thornspeakers were a small group, but also that they were such a small group that would leave no living pure-drust descendants.

their complete nonexistence to this very day prove as a fact they were few in number, cause if they were big they would still be around

No, it does not. It doesn't, in the slightest. Because you're ignoring the very real possibility that the drust may have not interbred with humans whatsoever.

do you even read what you said?

Do you?

and we have 2 other groups of taurens that are different based on their place like the taunka and yangol, there is enough evidence, you just cited another way of "evolution" in wow that is related to magic

So, are you going to handwave the Highmountain tauren away as "exception", like you did with the pandaren, because they show that "thousands of years of generations" does not necessarily bring differences in the races?

"blizzard wanting to make then different" still is they being different supported by the game,

Important NPCs are also giants, even among their races. And that's "Blizzard wanting to make them different", so are you going to argue that those important NPCs like are also giants?

If they indeed want make the elves different, they will, but they didn't

High elves and blood elves looked exactly like night elves, only with pink skin, back in vanilla.

[Sharby]

Afrasiabi at BlizzCon 2018 (so after BFA release, after those lines were written) said about Kul Tirans “btw they are human” so I’m not sure why the discussion on that is still going on.

I’m too lazy to find the video now but I can find it later. Might’ve been the same one where he was asked about High Elf customization coming to Void Elves.

Regardless though, this line of conversation about whether Kul Tirans are or aren’t human is akin to the Night Elf discussion that was happening earlier.

That is, move it to another thread or PMs if y’all wanna discuss that.

It’s getting tiresome to see it in the High Elf Discussion thread.

I agree save the day with more fanart.

[matrix123mko]

this time perhaps the "Void Knights" will burn down Argent Crusade churches and villages for "not helping the Alliance" and maybe this time we could see an actual nuanced evil within the Alliance, after Stonespire

While Horde light elves will cry about that.

[Vaedan]

1) never showed as a big group
2) showed as just another organization among the drust
3) following old of ways of druidism

we have plenty of examples in lore that most of the druids are very few in numbers among other races, maybe with the exception of night elves who are another case, nothing seems different with the drust druids.

If drust druids were few in numbers, than their blood would not grant kul tirans any significant druidic powers. You said in your previous posts that kul tiran druids are result of drust ancestry and it is not a cultural thing. Now, those two claims contradict. If the drust would have inborn druidic powers, their druids would not be few in numbers. If they did not have inborn druidic powers and were few in numbers, they could not pass it on their descendants through blood. Only by culture.

Now choose your opinion. You can't claim both.

[Ignaz]

If drust druids were few in numbers, than their blood would not grant kul tirans any significant druidic powers. You said in your previous posts that kul tiran druids are result of drust ancestry and it is not a cultural thing. Now, those two claims contradict. If the drust would have inborn druidic powers, their druids would not be few in numbers. If they did not have inborn druidic powers and were few in numbers, they could not pass it on their descendants through blood. Only by culture.

Now choose your opinion. You can't claim both.

that's the magic of Syegy's contradictions

[Vaedan]

So now you have argued yourself into a corner:
• If the druids are hermits, that means the other Thornspeakers also are hermits. But if they are hermits, how could they have children with the Kul Tiran humans? Because you're arguing that Ulfar didn't leave descendants because he's a hermit, then that means none of the Thornspeakers left descendants.
• But if the thornspeakers still could have children with the Kul Tirans despite being hermits, it begs the question: why do you think Ulfar did not do the same?


Wrong. Completely wrong. You're affirming your premise is true (environment favors humans) because the conclusion is true (humans are majority). That's backwards. That's a major fallacy.


Irrelevant. You have to not only show that the Thornspeakers were a small group, but also that they were such a small group that would leave no living pure-drust descendants.

[/B]

One more thing I realized... if thornspeakers would be really small group which joined and interbred with humans, then we are speaking about one generation or two. After 2700 years of evolution, this would bear very little results overall. Those descendants would have most likely different hair color, different facial features (caused by different shape of skull, etc). They would not be certainly largely different to the rest of the populace, on the contrary what we see in game.

That's how it works in real life. Sure, we can't really apply real science on fictional world, but it is the most logical outcome without any other information from Blizzard regarding how actually genetics works in their world.

that's the magic of Syegy's contradictions

Well, the fact that he is now contradicting himself on more points of the discussion, it clearly shows he has no consistent opinion on the matter and only tries to deny pretty obvious fact, I don't even for what reason now. I lost a track actually.

[Ignaz]

Well, the fact that he is now contradicting himself on more points of the discussion, it clearly shows he has no consistent opinion on the matter and only tries to deny pretty obvious fact, I don't even for what reason now. I lost a track actually.

That happens when the only objective of the debater is to antagonize his adversary.
The logic of a pure antagonist is to contradict others even if he does not have a vision or position of the matter. You can easily notice it in Him if you see the other threads in which He participates (in 99% of cases, he try to contradict the thread creator)

[Syegfryed]

If drust druids were few in numbers, than their blood would not grant kul tirans any significant druidic powers. You said in your previous posts that kul tiran druids are result of drust ancestry and it is not a cultural thing. Now, those two claims contradict. If the drust would have inborn druidic powers, their druids would not be few in numbers. If they did not have inborn druidic powers and were few in numbers, they could not pass it on their descendants through blood. Only by culture.

Now choose your opinion. You can't claim both.

i never said they were druids just because they had drust blood, and the race alone grant then druid powers, you are on purpose twisting my words

i said that since they having ancestry with the drust, thus a cultural/spiritual link to their ancestors who practice druidism, they would be more inclined to be the druids, "hearing the call of the wild" like their ancestors of long ago. Humans with no link or ancestry with the old druids would not be inclined into the practice, and this is corroborate that none of the normal humans are druids, just the ones who resemble the drust

this thing of passing druidic powers from blood is something you made up, that was never my point, it could be, but i could not say

the discussion, it clearly shows he has no consistent opinion on the matter and only tries to deny pretty obvious fact, I don't even for what reason now. I lost a track actually.

easy with the strawman lads

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That happens when the only objective of the debater is to antagonize his adversary.
The logic of a pure antagonist is to contradict others even if he does not have a vision or position of the matter. You can easily notice it in Him if you see the other threads in which He participates (in 99% of cases, he try to contradict the thread creator)

funny, cause this sounds exactly like you, i mean you literally said yourself you are joining the "debate" to antagonize and "expose" the adversary.

what a way of pass as a hypocrite, right expositor? also, 99% of the threads? wuush

[Aucald]

This is a thread devoted to the High Elves and associated matters, not the Kul Tirans or the Drust - let's pivot away from this derailing topic and back to the actual topic of this thread.

[Ignaz]

funny, cause this sounds exactly like you, i mean you literally said yourself you are joining the "debate" to antagonize and "expose" the adversary.

I agree with "expose the adversary" in your case. If you had taken the debate in a healthy way, nobody would have to expose you.

- - - Updated - - -

this time perhaps the "Void Knights" will burn down Argent Crusade churches and villages for "not helping the Alliance" and maybe this time we could see an actual nuanced evil within the Alliance, after Stonespire

a twist for the alliance would come in handy

[Yavi Dawnsong]

I doubt they would just toss it in, and honestly I'd rather hear about actual Shadowlands game features, but I can't help but wonder if they'll make any mention of the High Elven customization options at the newly rescheduled reveal event.

[Ignaz]

I doubt they would just toss it in, and honestly I'd rather hear about actual Shadowlands game features, but I can't help but wonder if they'll make any mention of the High Elven customization options at the newly rescheduled reveal event.

It is possible, given the controversy of the matter.

[Lorca]

I'll say the same thing I said to Syegfryed: you're free to stop responding to me. You're responding because you want to.

If you keep saying lying and accusing me publicly about things I didn't do, I'll keep answering you publicly, as you seem to be willing to keep embarrassing yourself. I tried to handle this discussion friendly and politely since the very beginning, but you've been elitist, totalitarian and a terrible shameless liar. You caused me of saying things I didn't say, and I proved it by quoting my own words, and you still are not able to admit you've been wrong the whole time and that you lied about that. You can't even answer to that. You keep slandering in each of your posts. Thus you get the serious-toned answers. Still, not impolite, or full conceptual mistakes or full of lies as yours.

And I've shown how I am not wrong, you're just arguing semantics and drawing wrong implications out of what I wrote.

Wake up. You didn't show anything, you didn't prove anything. You are stuck in a blabbing circle of which you seem not to be able to go out. You are misusing words, concepts, the lore of the game and you can't refute my thesis. So, yeah, you are wrong.

That's a strange way of spelling "falsehoods".

Clearly, again, you don't know what a fact is, neither a falsehood. Again, you're not giving any argument, any prove, just nothing. Zero. Again. Still blablaing and circling around.

Not at all. Because the first few words of the sentence I omitted in nothing change the context of what I had wrote before.

"Not at all" means you yourself are admitting that it has different meanings.

You don't know what a pragmatical-linguistical context is, you don't know what semantics are, please, stop, stop. Don't try to keep arguing about the things you don't know. Stop bringing that up. I am not arguing semantics with you because you don't know about it. It would be like arguing with you about harassment, politeness or genetics. It wouldn't make any sense.

You started by complaining about me using the word "rebrand" instead of "rename", and criticized the way I spell "ad nauseum".

And again, lying. Go and check the first time I quoted you. I didn't start anything talking about your wrong use of the word rebrand and its concept. I started pointing your hypocritical criterion, by differentiating the Blood Elves and the High Elves but not the Huojin Pandaren and the Tushui Pandaren. Then I offered you a thesis, which you still haven't been able to refute, and therefore you keep circling around, slandering, repeating that I lied -when you've been proven that it wasn't true more than once- and repeating that I only argue about semantics, when you don't have a clue about what the semantics are. I corrected you in the use of a word of which you didn't know the meaning and in the misspelling of a latinisms if which you also didn't know the meaning. That's not the subject of semantics. Add semantics to you have-to-check-in-the-dictionary list.

Irrelevant. Both words convey the exact same meaning and message within the context of the discussion in this thread. You're arguing semantics, pure and simple.

Irrelevant to you because you don't have, as usual, a single valid argument against that. It is relevant as you are confusing concepts. If you use rebrand, then you are referring to the same race, but to different organization of the same race. So, okay, Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race, right, perfect. About the semantics stuff -wow, again- read above.

Question answered in the very same part of my post you quoted.

Circling around. Again. Saying that you answered a question but not doing it doesn't work as an answer. In other words: you didn't answer anything.

Sounds more like you're talking about yourself than me, here. You are wrong, plain and simple. You are not polite as you claim to be, and you accuse me of things I did not do.

Nope. Sorry. I am talking about you, and what you keep doing. You are not giving a single valid argument. You keep repeating trivial stuff, not answering to any question, not refuting my thesis and thinking that that strategy will work. It won't. By the way, what you are doing is a pretty good example of the ad nauseam fallacy.

I've been polite. And, if you remembered, I was polite since the very beginning with you. But you've been just annoying during the whole conversation, slandering again and again. So I got bored of you. Thus I am talking in a more serious tone. Also, read what I said at first about me being polite. I am always polite, but if you lie to me and lie about what I said, don't expect the same level of politeness. Just read the complete sentences.

Irrelevant. You brought the Mag'har as an example of things I "call the wrong way".

Again, lying. You've been literally proven and shown in my last post how that isn't true. I didn't do that what you are stating.

I've already shown it to you. More than once, actually.

?

Like, what do you mean by linking those sentence to full posts with more than 10 sentences? Again, circling around, blabbing, not being able to give a single valid argument during the whole conversation.

[Yavi Dawnsong]

It is possible, given the controversy of the matter.

I suppose, I just hope if they do speak about it, it will just be a quick update thing. This is coming from someone who actually wants High Elves very much, it's just at the end of the day, game mechanics are what will actually keep me and others playing.

[FlubberPuddy]

I agree save the day with more fanart.

Soon, quite busy atm.

But huge thanks to Aucald for stepping in.

[Ielenia]

Circling around. Again. Saying that you answered a question but not doing it doesn't work as an answer. In other words: you didn't answer anything.

Just go back and read that sentence again:
"They call the pandaren"
"Who are "they"?"
"go to any NPC that addresses..."
Hence: question answered in the very same quote.

?

Like, what do you mean by linking those sentence to full posts with more than 10 sentences? Again, circling around, blabbing, not being able to give a single valid argument during the whole conversation.

Once again, you're not acting in the a "polite person" would. But, anyways:

Then you apparently don't know what the word "polite" means, if you think it's "polite" to call others 'little children' and 'cowards'. I didn't insult you a single time, though.

Again, a polite person does not outright accuse someone of lying because of a possible misunderstanding. A polite person does not accuse others of being "little children". A polite person person does not accuse others of being "cowards". And yet you did all that.

And this is where I stop responding to this since this conversation has whole wholly off-topic.

[Edoll]

Are the servers up yet? Anything for the real High Elves yet? Non-tentacle hairs? New hair colors?

[Doffen]

Not fan art(sorry to disappoint), but this is my Blood Elf atm:

[Frenchvince]

Are the servers up yet? Anything for the real High Elves yet? Non-tentacle hairs? New hair colors?

For the moment we can only speculate with what is in the builds.
MrGM had discovered a new texture "braids" for the void elf hair.
Maybe there will be an option to display braids in place of the tentacles. <3

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1268276998947983363

For the new hair colors, there is still nothing to confirm.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

For the moment we can only speculate with what is in the builds.
MrGM had discovered a new texture "braids" for the void elf hair.
Maybe there will be an option to display braids in place of the tentacles. <3

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1268276998947983363

For the new hair colors, there is still nothing to confirm.

The braid texture exist already on the live game files (on male hair colors) AFAIK, it has done since VE's were introduced