Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Females have purple eyes, males have blue.

So weird! hope they regularize that soon.

So I'm thinking, next week we will probably get the orc and worgen customization update, and after that some fine tuning, wonder how long until we see more of the VE normal skins; given their reveal I do think they will come way late on development and we only got the blue eyes because they were fast tracked as part of the BE customization. I do hope it's not to long before we see the skin tones on alpha; really want to play on the dressing room with my chars before the pre-patch lol.

As for AR in general, while I'm sure we are going to see eye colors across most, I do wonder if we will be seeing some hair and skin colors for them? Seems like an easy thing to add so AR feel they are getting something new.

[Kyriani]

Lore-wise, the non void skinned Void Elves are still just void elves. Which are originally Blood Elves, mutated by void energies.
Of course the Blood Elves are still actually High Elves biologically, since their division is cultural.

Biological High Elves have indeed been playable since TBC. But that misses the point entirely, being that people want to play the High Elves that separate themselves from their former Blood Elven kin due to their cultural division.

Arguably, from a lore standpoint, void elves even with their new skin tones are not High Elves.
Due to the fact that they are more biologically different from High Elves than even the Blood Elves are.
And also due to the fact that we have yet to be shown Void Elves following, or embracing the same culture as modern High Elves.

So, no non void skinned Void Elves are not High Elves, by lore.
But that's the amazing part of playing a Role Playing Game.
It's completely up to you, how you choose to Role Play your character, and if other people take issue with that, why do you want to interact with them in the first place?

I don't agree with this line of thinking.

The group of elves with Umbric were Blood Elves and became the first Void Elves (after Alleria of course). But we have in-game indication that new Void Elves may not necessarily be Blood Elves thanks to the High Elf Wayfarer NPC's in Telogrus. It stands to reason that if those High Elf Wayfarers are joining the Void Elves, that some Void Elves are in fact, Alliance High Elves that have decided to join the Ren'dorei along with those defecting Silvermoon Scholar Blood Elf NPC's.

What little lore we have regarding Void Elves only tells us how Umbric's group was transformed. There is no lore yet stating how new elves joining the Ren'dorei are acquiring their powers. I'd say it's rather unlikely that they are recreating Durzaan's ritual and interrupting it in the hopes of doing it just right to avoid transforming new recruits into insane void-ethereals. It seems far more logical (and much safer) that new members of the Ren'dorei would be learning to harness the void in a similar manner to Alleria with hers and Locus Walker's guidance. That's a far more reasonable and simple explanation for the new skins. And that would mean that new void elves aren't being transformed in the same manner as Umbric and his people were, but rather learning their art like any other magic (and possibly absorbing void beings summoned in Teleogrus) just as Alleria did.

Hopefully the devs won't just plop the options in on patch day and call it good without also adding at least a little lore dialogue to NPC's in Telogrus that expands upon what we know and fills in some of the gaps. Goodness knows that Void Elves need a great deal of expansion to their limited lore. But even without that, just the presence of the High Elf Wayfarers implies that at least some Void Elves are Alliance High Elves that have joined the Ren'dorei. I mean, if you're going to assume that Void Elves are making more of their kind, they obviously need elves willing to join and it's fair to also assume that the Silvermoon Scholars and the High Elf Wayfarers are those candidates.

[shoc]

Line by line rebuttal forum posting should be banned, take it to the DMs for fucks sake. They make zero sense to everyone but the people engaged in them

[Swnem]

Line by line rebuttal forum posting should be banned, take it to the DMs for fucks sake. They make zero sense to everyone but the people engaged in them

I totally agree. I purposidly don't anser them quote by quote or just ignore the reply (or write a really short answer just to annoy them back). It really is a form of harassement if you ask me. The person is being annoying on purpose.
Points can be summed up in a single reply. We don't need multiple quotes of parts of the same post.

[Lorca]

Just go back and read that sentence again:
"They call the pandaren"
"Who are "they"?"
"go to any NPC that addresses..."
Hence: question answered in the very same quote.


Once again, you're not acting in the a "polite person" would. But, anyways:


And this is where I stop responding to this since this conversation has whole wholly off-topic.

Good to know that you are already dropping the ball, as you are not able to handle a conversation properly sticking to the subject of it. Again circling around, with not a single argument to discuss the topic of the discussion. Not a single argument against my thesis. And you keep lying. I called you and will call you a liar because you've lied several times and you keep doing it. If you slander and accuse me of saying something I didn't say, then you are simply a liar, by definition, like it or not. It's not about what you think or feel, it's just about facts.

Not every NPC's in the game call the just Pandaren. You yourself used as part of the criteria the reputation box text for calling them one way or another; but then you were shown that they are actually called by their group name -Huojin and Tushui Pandaren- in those box texts and suddenly they stopped counting. You've been also an hypocrite since the very beginning using a double standard.

So, since you keep using the ad nauseam fallacy all over again, and you can't stick to the topic, yes, I am done with you too.

[Ielenia]

Good to know that you are already dropping the ball, as you are not able to handle a conversation properly sticking to the subject of it.

Once again, you fail to act like a polite person. This has nothing to do about "dropping the ball" or "not able to handle a conversation properly". This is about, as I mentioned, this whole conversation being completely off-topic.

If you cannot understand that idea, and/or feel the need to declare victory because I am following the rules established by the mods exactly two pages ago, that's your problem.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I don't agree with this line of thinking.

The group of elves with Umbric were Blood Elves and became the first Void Elves (after Alleria of course). But we have in-game indication that new Void Elves may not necessarily be Blood Elves thanks to the High Elf Wayfarer NPC's in Telogrus. It stands to reason that if those High Elf Wayfarers are joining the Void Elves, that some Void Elves are in fact, Alliance High Elves that have decided to join the Ren'dorei along with those defecting Silvermoon Scholar Blood Elf NPC's.

What little lore we have regarding Void Elves only tells us how Umbric's group was transformed. There is no lore yet stating how new elves joining the Ren'dorei are acquiring their powers. I'd say it's rather unlikely that they are recreating Durzaan's ritual and interrupting it in the hopes of doing it just right to avoid transforming new recruits into insane void-ethereals. It seems far more logical (and much safer) that new members of the Ren'dorei would be learning to harness the void in a similar manner to Alleria with hers and Locus Walker's guidance. That's a far more reasonable and simple explanation for the new skins. And that would mean that new void elves aren't being transformed in the same manner as Umbric and his people were, but rather learning their art like any other magic (and possibly absorbing void beings summoned in Teleogrus) just as Alleria did.

Hopefully the devs won't just plop the options in on patch day and call it good without also adding at least a little lore dialogue to NPC's in Telogrus that expands upon what we know and fills in some of the gaps. Goodness knows that Void Elves need a great deal of expansion to their limited lore. But even without that, just the presence of the High Elf Wayfarers implies that at least some Void Elves are Alliance High Elves that have joined the Ren'dorei. I mean, if you're going to assume that Void Elves are making more of their kind, they obviously need elves willing to join and it's fair to also assume that the Silvermoon Scholars and the High Elf Wayfarers are those candidates.

Basically this; like make no mistake y'all, a prime convern for VE lore since reveal has been how the heck are they meant to replenish their numbers, specially being a very limited initial population.

And while they could go for far wilder ideas, so far the only implication is that New Elves might join them, somehow (with the Scholars and Wayfarers, whcih are both BE and HE)

I think this of course needs clarification even if it's just some flavor text, but with what we have, the only thing that makes sense in terms of replenishing numbers, is that those Scholars and Wayfarers can become Void Elves through study, like Alleria did -just probably less powerful since they will doubtly absorb a naaru-

[Yavi Dawnsong]

There is no lore yet stating how new elves joining the Ren'dorei are acquiring their powers.

Exactly, leading the only official lore to state that the current playable Void Elves are the original ones.
This might change in Shadowlands, if Blizzard choose to explain why the new skin tones are available, but until they do the only lore friendly explantion is that you play as a 'first generation' Void Elf.

Further proven by the fact that they will still have access to their Void Elf skin tones/other customization options.
Of course you are free to RP as a High Elf who joined the Void Elves, but purely by lore, you aren't.

Edit: I like High Elves a lot, like they are 100% my favourite race. I'm just saying from a solid, lore based, currently definitive viewpoint, Void Elves are not High Elves, even if they gain the ability to look like them.
They won't be until they have a different character creation screen, racial name, racial abilities, starting zone and customization options.

[Kyriani]

They won't be until they have a different character creation screen, racial name, racial abilities, starting zone and customization options.

See, I don't agree with this either. You're talking about a full fledged allied race and it very much seems that Blizzard is moving away from minor variant allied races and putting those sorts of things in as customization options instead. This is why Wildhammer are being made using standard Bronzebreard Dwarves and the various Troll tribes are being made through standard Darkspear Trolls rather than being their own allied races.

The same applies to Void Elves. Blizzard seems to intend us to make our High Elves out of Void Elves. The High Elf Wayfarer NPC's already imply that High Elves are joining the Ren'dorei. Even though they are becoming Void Elves, they are still the Alliance High Elves at the heart of the player request and will now be able to look the part as well. It's a new future going forward for them.

Sure I'd rather have High Elves as their own allied race, but it doesn't seem like Blizzard is willing to make yet another Thalassian Elf variant that would also need a Horde counterpart. Adding High Elf customization options to Void Elves gives players the ability to make High Elves with minimal investment on Blizzard's end.

[Yavi Dawnsong]

See, I don't agree with this either.

Well, again as was my point, this is all well and good for RP, but does not translate to being lore accurate.
You used the dwarves and trolls as an example, but lore wise they are also restricted to being bronzebeard and darkspear.
The fact that you can visually change your character to represent another race/faction does not actually make them it, Blizzard themselves said that the purpose of adding these new visual options was to facilitate the playerbase to RP as what they visually represent.

I don't think its required to add High Elves as another full fledged allied race, I would like it, but its not required.
I was just saying that the High Elves people want to play are not available from a strictly lore based standpoint, and no matter how many skin tones and hair colours they recieve that will not change.

[Kyriani]

I was just saying that the High Elves people want to play are not available from a strictly lore based standpoint, and no matter how many skin tones and hair colours they recieve that will not change.

But don't the High Elf Wayfarers count for anything as far as a "lore based standpoint" is concerned regarding the availability of High Elves? Sure, more definitive in game text telling us specifics would be welcome, but the implications of the High Elf Wayfarers has to count for something no?

[Yavi Dawnsong]

But don't the High Elf Wayfarers count for anything as far as a "lore based standpoint" is concerned regarding the availability of High Elves? Sure, more definitive in game text telling us specifics would be welcome, but the implications of the High Elf Wayfarers has to count for something no?

Nothing concrete, the most it proves is that some High Elves are learning how to control the void, that's all.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Well, again as was my point, this is all well and good for RP, but does not translate to being lore accurate.
You used the dwarves and trolls as an example, but lore wise they are also restricted to being bronzebeard and darkspear.
The fact that you can visually change your character to represent another race/faction does not actually make them it, Blizzard themselves said that the purpose of adding these new visual options was to facilitate the playerbase to RP as what they visually represent.

I don't think its required to add High Elves as another full fledged allied race, I would like it, but its not required.
I was just saying that the High Elves people want to play are not available from a strictly lore based standpoint, and no matter how many skin tones and hair colours they recieve that will not change.

I think the point is that new Void Elves would come from the High Elves people want; thusly, be the HE's people want, just using void.

Like if a High Elf starts using Void and call themselves a Void Elf, then they are still of the high Elves we want -which was a big issue with VE's as introduced being made out of BE's-

It's the Alleria argument; she's pretty much the archetype of High Elf most people appreciate, and now she is a Void Elf.

[Ielenia]

I don't agree with this line of thinking.

The group of elves with Umbric were Blood Elves and became the first Void Elves (after Alleria of course). But we have in-game indication that new Void Elves may not necessarily be Blood Elves thanks to the High Elf Wayfarer NPC's in Telogrus. It stands to reason that if those High Elf Wayfarers are joining the Void Elves, that some Void Elves are in fact, Alliance High Elves that have decided to join the Ren'dorei along with those defecting Silvermoon Scholar Blood Elf NPC's.

What little lore we have regarding Void Elves only tells us how Umbric's group was transformed. There is no lore yet stating how new elves joining the Ren'dorei are acquiring their powers. I'd say it's rather unlikely that they are recreating Durzaan's ritual and interrupting it in the hopes of doing it just right to avoid transforming new recruits into insane void-ethereals. It seems far more logical (and much safer) that new members of the Ren'dorei would be learning to harness the void in a similar manner to Alleria with hers and Locus Walker's guidance. That's a far more reasonable and simple explanation for the new skins. And that would mean that new void elves aren't being transformed in the same manner as Umbric and his people were, but rather learning their art like any other magic (and possibly absorbing void beings summoned in Teleogrus) just as Alleria did.

Hopefully the devs won't just plop the options in on patch day and call it good without also adding at least a little lore dialogue to NPC's in Telogrus that expands upon what we know and fills in some of the gaps. Goodness knows that Void Elves need a great deal of expansion to their limited lore. But even without that, just the presence of the High Elf Wayfarers implies that at least some Void Elves are Alliance High Elves that have joined the Ren'dorei. I mean, if you're going to assume that Void Elves are making more of their kind, they obviously need elves willing to join and it's fair to also assume that the Silvermoon Scholars and the High Elf Wayfarers are those candidates.

This is something I've said before in this thread. The new void elves (as in, void elves created after Umbric's original group got rescued from that trap) would be the result of a much safer experiment that doesn't rely in "stopping a trap at the precise moment".

[shoc]

I think the point is that new Void Elves would come from the High Elves people want; thusly, be the HE's people want, just using void.

Like if a High Elf starts using Void and call themselves a Void Elf, then they are still of the high Elves we want -which was a big issue with VE's as introduced being made out of BE's-

It's the Alleria argument; she's pretty much the archetype of High Elf most people appreciate, and now she is a Void Elf.

I still don't get the confusion, with the changes, isn't it easy to conclude that Blood Elves and Void Elves are both equally High Elves?

[FlubberPuddy]

I think the point is that new Void Elves would come from the High Elves people want; thusly, be the HE's people want, just using void.

Like if a High Elf starts using Void and call themselves a Void Elf, then they are still of the high Elves we want -which was a big issue with VE's as introduced being made out of BE's-

It's the Alleria argument; she's pretty much the archetype of High Elf most people appreciate, and now she is a Void Elf.

Pretty much this.

I also suspect that going forward we're going to get more High Elf/Void Elf mingling sort of like how we see in Stormwind, since the new customizations are coming for that race option as a whole. Blizzard now justified giving more variance to its NPCs.

Very similar to how they're giving Blood Elf Paladins and Priests NPCs Golden Eyes when they received that customization and how Night Elves NPCs with Tyrande got their Night Warrior eyes from that.

I really do think we're going to reach a point one day where racials within a given race are customizeable as well (within reason for that race). Though I'm talking like another decade+ probably. If another revamp of the character creation customization doesn't happen before then.

Danuser already spoke on how if they had to explain every option out with a story in-game they wouldn't have the resources to do it and thus it would just never happen.

By piece-mealing out options like Wildhammers and High Elves and the different Troll tribes etc they can save all that explaining background and just include little snippets here or there going forward (like plunking in more High Elf looking NPCs around Void Elves or even just around the Alliance in general now as we've finally gotten them as an option).

And the reason why I say this ^ (the previous paragraph) will most likely happen is because they literally just did that in BFA, where they peppered in every Legion Allied Race where they realistically could in order to showcase the new options available to players.

I don't doubt that when we get back to Azeroth after Shadowlands, that we'll see a lot of intraracial diversity within each major faction!

- - - Updated - - -

I still don't get the confusion, with the changes, isn't it easy to conclude that Blood Elves and Void Elves are both equally High Elves?

I think when people start to focus on all the little details they miss the big picture.

Like Ion literally telling the crowd at Blizzcon you can now play a Wildhammer Dwarf, despite that it's going to have bronzebeard racials/start in Ironforge.

He said that because for the first time players can make themselves look like a Wildhammer Dwarf and thus play it.

Same thing is happening here with High Elves.

Players can now make themselves look like a High Elf and thus play it. Same with Blood Elves getting the option as well.

Not even Blizzard is like 'well it's just a bronzebeard with tattoos, not a real wildhammer' because that's simply missing the point which is the look conveys the meaning.

Just like multi-racial humans now existing was never equal to previously making white european stormwindians with dark skin since Classic.

[FossilFree]

Hopefully, Blizzard makes those braids an option in place of tentacles. Add in some void tattoos and a better EE animation, and we are set!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I still don't get the confusion, with the changes, isn't it easy to conclude that Blood Elves and Void Elves are both equally High Elves?

I think you are missing the context that makes current alliance high elves and blood elves "hit the spot" differently. It has been answered many a times, but it's good to remind in case someone has missed it.

Basically, it's a contextual difference; current alliance high elves have never been part of the horde; much like Alleria, they have been alliance and remained so. That's the context specific to alliance high elves, contrasted to BE's, that became Horde. The point is that this difference of ideological context makes them two groups with different ideologies and goals and environments, and simply not interchangeable form a lore perspective.

[shoc]

I think you are missing the context that makes current alliance high elves and blood elves "hit the spot" differently. It has been answered many a times, but it's good to remind in case someone has missed it.

Basically, it's a contextual difference; current alliance high elves have never been part of the horde; much like Alleria, they have been alliance and remained so. That's the context specific to alliance high elves, contrasted to BE's, that became Horde. The point is that this difference of ideological context makes them two groups with different ideologies and goals and environments, and simply not interchangeable form a lore perspective.

But if you're a player playing a Void Elf High Elf, or a Blood Elf High Elf, it doesn't really matter does it. Whatever ideology or goals your RP dude might have is in the hands of individual player agency, not exactly determined by MMO-C pedants.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Pretty much this.

I also suspect that going forward we're going to get more High Elf/Void Elf mingling sort of like how we see in Stormwind, since the new customizations are coming for that race option as a whole. Blizzard now justified giving more variance to its NPCs.

Very similar to how they're giving Blood Elf Paladins and Priests NPCs Golden Eyes when they received that customization and how Night Elves NPCs with Tyrande got their Night Warrior eyes from that.

I really do think we're going to reach a point one day where racials within a given race are customizeable as well (within reason for that race). Though I'm talking like another decade+ probably. If another revamp of the character creation customization doesn't happen before then.

Danuser already spoke on how if they had to explain every option out with a story in-game they wouldn't have the resources to do it and thus it would just never happen.

By piece-mealing out options like Wildhammers and High Elves and the different Troll tribes etc they can save all that explaining background and just include little snippets here or there going forward (like plunking in more High Elf looking NPCs around Void Elves or even just around the Alliance in general now as we've finally gotten them as an option).

And the reason why I say this ^ (the previous paragraph) will most likely happen is because they literally just did that in BFA, where they peppered in every Legion Allied Race where they realistically could in order to showcase the new options available to players.

I don't doubt that when we get back to Azeroth after Shadowlands, that we'll see a lot of intraracial diversity within each major faction!

Hopefully tbh! In terms of immediacy, I do hope that some options (like new VE skin tones and sandfury skin tones) get some flavor text; not every new customization option needs urgent addressing and should be considered as already being part of the worldbuilding (like darker skin tones and wildhammer dwarves), but situations like VE and Trolls would do well with a bit more of explanation, otherwise we are left to simply Headcanon that VE's can make more and somehow Sandfury joined the Horde.

And again, it's barely more than some flavor text that we need on the short time, and moving forward of course we can get more depth through NPC's and quest text.

For me the most glaring issue is that VE sustainability has to be addressed, and it has been since their inception. And unlike Forsaken which took them 6 years to address them, they also had far more vast numbers initially, plus any potentially new freed scourge to join them; unlike Void Elves, that were already concieved like a very, VERY limited group.

- - - Updated - - -

But if you're a player playing a Void Elf High Elf, or a Blood Elf High Elf, it doesn't really matter does it. Whatever ideology or goals your RP dude might have is in the hands of individual player agency, not exactly determined by MMO-C pedants.

While there's an overlap between lore of the game and personal interpretation, they are indeed different issues at their core. One is about personal enjoyment and you can be whatever you want, but the later is quite simple about discussing the lore of the game.

The whole issue about Void Elves being made of High Elves is linked to the unanswered question of whether Void Elves can recruit new members. That's a lore concern that exist regardless of personal headcanon.

Like many of my void elves are simply high elves and will continue to be so -just as I started with a human model, now I simply use a VE one, and soon one that will further look like a HE- but I am still interested on what it all means in terms of VE sustainability and Thalassian Lore overall on the alliance.

So indeed, there is overlap, but they are two different issues altogether.