Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ignaz]

That's another thing I forgot!

We have a very Light-centric race in the form of Lightforged draenei... and a very Void-centric race in the form of void elves. It's prime material to bring some conflict between some groups, disagreements of what could and should be done, with the LD opposing the use of void...

But the two races never even interact in the game.

Yeah… a waste of potential, I think. Possibly and with the time jump that will supposedly be after shadowlands, we will find a conflict more focused on the fight between the light and void; which I find narratively unpleasant because of the time that has passed since the introduction of both playable races.

[Yarathir]

Yeah, Void Elves can get some High Elf skins and maybe even hair colors, but when they do get their proper customization pass with actual new stuff (such as new hair, new other features), I sure as hell do hope those'll be mainly void (elf) focused, and not additional ways to make your Void Elf even more High Elfy.

[Strippling]

I hope this remains true because I like the void aspects. But I would also like to see some lore development on that end, as well as some mention of the integration of those High Elf Wayfarers and Silvermoon Scholars into the Ren'dorei. And most importantly, I'd like to see mention of how the new generation of Void Elves are gaining their abilities.

Indeed, they are definitely in need of some further lore development. TBH though, despite other ARs having a bit more story behind them (such as HM tauren in legion), many of their stories were already told and we will likely not see much of them by way of lore development in the future. Void elves on the other hand, despite having less lore than the other ARs, are set up in a way we will likely be seeing a lot of their involvement in the future, as opposed to say HM tauren or KT who will likely take a back seat for a long time. Especially with Alleria getting a bit of focus this xpac and likely the next too (unless she is killed in the xpac).

I'd like to see more void elf development lorewise, and more nightborne development customization wise.

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps, if nothing else because they're setting Alleria up to be a future villain during a Light/Void themed expansion, even if unwilling.

Time will tell I guess

[Kyriani]

Void elves on the other hand, despite having less lore than the other ARs, are set up in a way we will likely be seeing a lot of their involvement in the future, as opposed to say HM tauren or KT who will likely take a back seat for a long time. Especially with Alleria getting a bit of focus this xpac and likely the next too (unless she is killed in the xpac).

That's what I thought going into BFA... and we got nothing whatsoever as far as development or new lore for Void Elves. All we got were generic throw away Void Elf NPC's tossing goblins into void portals, animating Void-Dinosaurs and we played nursemaid to Magister Umbric. Umbric got some development sure, but Void Elves as a people? Nada. We learned virtually nothing new about Void Elves through the entirety of BFA and Void Elves had no role in what should arguably have been their areas of expertise (void magic/old god/corruption). About the only thing we learned is that void magic can fortify portals, allowing for stealthy entry into places warded against such magic.

I fear that Blizzard will simply give us the customization options and leave everything else as is without adding any new lore for Void Elves at all. Blizzard could have... and should have... had Void Elves playing a larger role against N'zoth, and BFA let us down in that regard. Shadowlands doesn't seem like it will have much relevance to the void so I'm not certain what sorts of opportunities will present themselves for Void Elf lore development. We shouldn't have to wait for a void expansion for basic lore. I just really want Blizzard to flesh out the Void Elf background.

All it takes is some new NPC dialogue or maybe a book doodad to click and read that elaborates on things we still don't know. Like why are these High Elf Wayfarers and Silvermoon Scholars in Telogrus and so eager to have madness inducing whispers stuffed into their heads? And just how are they gaining their void abilities? These are such basic elements that require only a sentence or two of dialogue from an NPC and/or a clickable book. If Blizzard can't even be bothered to do that with Shadowlands pre-patch, I'll find it difficult to believe it will ever come.

[Strippling]

That's what I thought going into BFA... and we got nothing whatsoever as far as development or new lore for Void Elves. All we got were generic throw away Void Elf NPC's tossing goblins into void portals, animating Void-Dinosaurs and we played nursemaid to Magister Umbric. Umbric got some development sure, but Void Elves as a people? Nada. We learned virtually nothing new about Void Elves through the entirety of BFA and Void Elves had no role in what should arguably have been their areas of expertise (void magic/old god/corruption). About the only thing we learned is that void magic can fortify portals, allowing for stealthy entry into places warded against such magic.

I fear that Blizzard will simply give us the customization options and leave everything else as is without adding any new lore for Void Elves at all. Blizzard could have... and should have... had Void Elves playing a larger role against N'zoth, and BFA let us down in that regard. Shadowlands doesn't seem like it will have much relevance to the void so I'm not certain what sorts of opportunities will present themselves for Void Elf lore development. We shouldn't have to wait for a void expansion for basic lore. I just really want Blizzard to flesh out the Void Elf background.

All it takes is some new NPC dialogue or maybe a book doodad to click and read that elaborates on things we still don't know. Like why are these High Elf Wayfarers and Silvermoon Scholars in Telogrus and so eager to have madness inducing whispers stuffed into their heads? And just how are they gaining their void abilities? These are such basic elements that require only a sentence or two of dialogue from an NPC and/or a clickable book. If Blizzard can't even be bothered to do that with Shadowlands pre-patch, I'll find it difficult to believe it will ever come.

It's a bit of give and take really. I'm not arguing with what you're saying, but it's more a matter of subjective opinion. Do void elves need more fleshing out lorewise? Yes. Do nightborne? Not as much so. On the other hand, void elves will likely be getting some customization love before nightborne do, despite nightborne having far less customization choices than void elves. So I agree with you that a few simple NPC dialogue sentences could do wonders, but void elves have not entirely been neglected. As we can see, they'll likely be the first or at the very least one of the first ARs to get customization additions. Heck, they're getting the coveted blood elf skins.. when like I said nightborne who are severely lacking in the customization department could do with the customization love first. So, it's give and take. Nightborne for example have the lore love, while VE have the customization love for now.

[Ielenia]

Indeed, they are definitely in need of some further lore development. TBH though, despite other ARs having a bit more story behind them (such as HM tauren in legion), many of their stories were already told and we will likely not see much of them by way of lore development in the future. Void elves on the other hand, despite having less lore than the other ARs, are set up in a way we will likely be seeing a lot of their involvement in the future, as opposed to say HM tauren or KT who will likely take a back seat for a long time. Especially with Alleria getting a bit of focus this xpac and likely the next too (unless she is killed in the xpac).

I'd like to see more void elf development lorewise, and more nightborne development customization wise.

My problem here is that BfA was the expansion to tell void elf stories, what with all the 'void' and 'old god' focus. 8.3 could have been the VE's moment to shine... but they're relegated as fodder, literally, for Memento farming in Alternate Stormwind.

I honestly doubt the void elves, as a race, are going to get any meaningful development in Shadowlands. I could be wrong, but from what I suspect, nothing will happen. And also, I doubt we'll have a 'void-focused' expansion anytime soon. Look how long it took between TBC and Legion, for example. And the "focus" Alleria got in this expansion in nothing benefits the void elves since all that was explored was her connection to Sylvanas, so I don't think that counts as "void elf racial lore development", I'm afraid.

[Saradain]

Well, we got High Elves to both factions, surely something completely unexpected...Yeah...Umm...I have nothing to say here.

Regards, PALADIN

[Strippling]

My problem here is that BfA was the expansion to tell void elf stories, what with all the 'void' and 'old god' focus. 8.3 could have been the VE's moment to shine... but they're relegated as fodder, literally, for Memento farming in Alternate Stormwind.

I honestly doubt the void elves, as a race, are going to get any meaningful development in Shadowlands. I could be wrong, but from what I suspect, nothing will happen. And also, I doubt we'll have a 'void-focused' expansion anytime soon. Look how long it took between TBC and Legion, for example. And the "focus" Alleria got in this expansion in nothing benefits the void elves since all that was explored was her connection to Sylvanas, so I don't think that counts as "void elf racial lore development", I'm afraid.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that they could have been given a bit more spotlight regarding their lore this expansion.. but it's never too late. All I'm saying is that they're better set up than pretty much any other AR to have story development in the coming xpacs. I honestly don''t think we'll see much of HM Tauren, LF Draenei, mechagnome, vulpera, KT or mag'har over the next fews xpacs... maybe an occassional character here or there but i doubt any major storybeats. VE on the other hand have a good chance at getting some spotlight, especially with Alleria around.

And like I said above, VE may be lacking in the lore department but customization wise they'll definietly be one of the first, if not the first AR to receive some customization love. Which other ARs desperately need before them, such as nightborne, HM tauren and LF draenei who are severely lacking in the customization department.. especially nightborne. Yet VE will be getting the love before them. So, you win some you lose some, in this case VE are losing atm in the lore department but definitely winning in the customization department. Nightborne are the opposite, winning in the lore department and losing in the customization department. With time hopefully these areas they're lacking will be addressed, but neither is being more neglected than the other... they just have differing areas of focus atm,

[Ignaz]

Don't get me wrong, I agree that they could have been given a bit more spotlight regarding their lore this expansion.. but it's never too late. All I'm saying is that they're better set up than pretty much any other AR to have story development in the coming xpacs. I honestly don''t think we'll see much of HM Tauren, LF Draenei, mechagnome, vulpera, KT or mag'har over the next fews xpacs... maybe an occassional character here or there but i doubt any major storybeats. VE on the other hand have a good chance at getting some spotlight, especially with Alleria around.

And like I said above, VE may be lacking in the lore department but customization wise they'll definietly be one of the first, if not the first AR to receive some customization love. Which other ARs desperately need before them, such as nightborne, HM tauren and LF draenei who are severely lacking in the customization department.. especially nightborne. Yet VE will be getting the love before them. So, you win some you lose some, in this case VE are losing atm in the lore department but definitely winning in the customization department. Nightborne are the opposite, winning in the lore department and losing in the customization department. With time hopefully these areas they're lacking will be addressed, but neither is being more neglected than the other... they just have differing areas of focus atm,

I share your point of view and understand the displeasure of @Ielenia and @Kyriani towards the treatment that Blizzard has given to the Velves lore.
In a way (I speak for myself) I think that the Velves were a kind of poorly done fan service and on the other hand I can believe that they have been a seed that will sprout some expansions beyond.

The problem is in the narrative content. When we make a story (novel, movie, game, etc.) and we create a character or a group for that universe, we have to make clear some basic aspects so that the viewer, reader or player get hooked.

An example of good storytelling, without leaving the game; are the undead of Lordaeron. From the beginning they showed their shortcomings and strengths, their yearnings and position in society, among other things. And all of that happened at a very early stage in the game (WW3 and WOW).
Sure, we can't compare the development of a core race with an AR but narratively speaking, those are basic elements to tell a good story.

[Ielenia]

And like I said above, VE may be lacking in the lore department but customization wise they'll definietly be one of the first, if not the first AR to receive some customization love. Which other ARs desperately need before them, such as nightborne, HM tauren and LF draenei who are severely lacking in the customization department.. especially nightborne. Yet VE will be getting the love before them. So, you win some you lose some, in this case VE are losing atm in the lore department but definitely winning in the customization department. Nightborne are the opposite, winning in the lore department and losing in the customization department. With time hopefully these areas they're lacking will be addressed, but neither is being more neglected than the other... they just have differing areas of focus atm,

Oh, I agree there. And... I think this is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it gives many, if not most of us who were asking for high elves in the Alliance an "escape" to play 'pretend' and RP as high elves. A compromise. On the other hand... I think it compromises the void elf identity, which is 'void'.

Being completely honest, I would have preferred that they never introduced high elf customization to void elves, and instead "doubled-down" on the void aspect of the race. Even if it meant we never had Alliance high elves. I'm not the biggest of fans of the VE race, but at least that would mean that the race would follow the path it presented itself to be following at its introduction, instead of "diluting" itself.

As an aside, this is actually funny. Because that is very similar to what happened to the blood elves when they were introduced: they were presented as following an "edgy, pragmatic" path, with them enslaving a Naaru and bending the Light to their will... but, at the end of TBC, all that was removed.

[Varodoc]

I think when people start to focus on all the little details they miss the big picture.

Like Ion literally telling the crowd at Blizzcon you can now play a Wildhammer Dwarf, despite that it's going to have bronzebeard racials/start in Ironforge.

He said that because for the first time players can make themselves look like a Wildhammer Dwarf and thus play it.

Same thing is happening here with High Elves.

Players can now make themselves look like a High Elf and thus play it. Same with Blood Elves getting the option as well.

Not even Blizzard is like 'well it's just a bronzebeard with tattoos, not a real wildhammer' because that's simply missing the point which is the look conveys the meaning.

Just like multi-racial humans now existing was never equal to previously making white european stormwindians with dark skin since Classic.

Couldn't have said it better myself. People who say stuff like "it's not actually a high elf, because it still has void elf abilities" are just spiteful nerds who are purposefully being nitpicky. They know that any sane human being does not give a shit about that, but they just want to discourage people from living their fantasy as high elves in peace.

[Aldo Hawk]

The wow team is useless and being stupid in this regard, an allied race would have simply ended up any discussion at all, but no, we have the pedantic nitpickers still monkeing around leaving everything covered with their shit.

It's damn obvious they accepted the playability of High elves in the Alliance, but try to be cheap about it because it lines up with 'the new big characteristic of Shadowlands', the character customization, which is bullshit, they are just half assing it again.

So in short: Antis, you are dead wrong, utterly wrong, you have been proven to not have any say about anything regarding this since you are the ones who enjoy denying things to others, you are the ones who the community would be better without, good riddance.

And you, those who ask for High elves, just keep asking for an allied race, it's nice they announced the customization for Void elves but there's nothing wrong on insisting that an allied race is going to be more complete and that Blizzard is being cheap again.

[Ignaz]

Being completely honest, I would have preferred that they never introduced high elf customization to void elves, and instead "doubled-down" on the void aspect of the race. Even if it meant we never had Alliance high elves. I'm not the biggest of fans of the VE race, but at least that would mean that the race would follow the path it presented itself to be following at its introduction, instead of "diluting" itself.

I think the same. Beyond the controversy of whether it is correct to introduce the Helves as a playable race on its own or not, impersonating another playable race to make them a semi-fan service is something I disagree with

[Varodoc]

I think the same. Beyond the controversy of whether it is correct to introduce the Helves as a playable race on its own or not, impersonating another playable race to make them a semi-fan service is something I disagree with

There is no "impersonating". The Void Elves leader is a void elf who retained her high elf form. This is no different than Undead Elf skins for Forsaken players to look like Sylvanas.

[bobwuzhere1224]

The wow team is useless and being stupid in this regard, an allied race would have simply ended up any discussion at all, but no, we have the pedantic nitpickers still monkeing around leaving everything covered with their shit.

It's damn obvious they accepted the playability of High elves in the Alliance, but try to be cheap about it because it lines up with 'the new big characteristic of Shadowlands', the character customization, which is bullshit, they are just half assing it again.

So in short: Antis, you are dead wrong, utterly wrong, you have been proven to not have any say about anything regarding this since you are the ones who enjoy denying things to others, you are the ones who the community would be better without, good riddance.

And you, those who ask for High elves, just keep asking for an allied race, it's nice they announced the customization for Void elves but there's nothing wrong on insisting that an allied race is going to be more complete and that Blizzard is being cheap again.

Yikes

[Ignaz]

There is no "impersonating". The Void Elves leader is a void elf who retained her high elf form.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the leader of the Ren'dorei is Umbric and he turned purple (literally). Alleria plays the role of teacher for the Velves, but does not lead them.

This is no different than Undead Elf skins for Forsaken players to look like Sylvanas.

I disagree.
The identity of the undead lies with their nature, not their appearance. Any race can become a undead. Now the living playable races depend on their appearance and cultural/social reality.

Velves (characteristics that define that they are corrupted by the void)
in the case of Belves and Helves, their political badges with their respective symbols (colors, flags, morals and ethics)
and who knows… even in a future Blizzard can bring Helves with a different model than the Belves creating an accentuated badge as in the case of the stormwind humans and the humans of Kul'tiras

Reducing those characteristics to put other characteristics that their counterparts possess, is to damage their identity as a group. I know that many here like the addition of new customizations for their aesthetic value, but the narrative value is given by the identity.

[Varodoc]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the leader of the Ren'dorei is Umbric and he turned purple (literally). Alleria plays the role of teacher for the Velves, but does not lead them.


I disagree.
The identity of the undead lies with their nature, not their appearance. Any race can become a undead. Now the living playable races depend on their appearance and cultural/social reality.

Velves (characteristics that define that they are corrupted by the void)
in the case of Belves and Helves, their political badges with their respective symbols (colors, flags, morals and ethics)
and who knows… even in a future Blizzard can bring Helves with a different model than the Belves creating an accentuated badge as in the case of the stormwind humans and the humans of Kul'tiras

Reducing those characteristics to put other characteristics that their counterparts possess, is to damage their identity as a group.

No. Alleria is Umbric's superior. At the end of the recruitment scenario, Umbric declares his allegiance to Alleria, wherever she will lead him and his people. During the Fourth War, Alleria sent Umbric to Zandalar to help the Alliance's war effort, meaning that Alleria can give commands to Umbric.

I don't see the problem with void elves being able to take up a fair form and hide their shadowy true form. If anything, this sounds super high fantasy and thus very appreciated in a setting like Warcraft.

[Amaterasu65]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the leader of the Ren'dorei is Umbric and he turned purple (literally). Alleria plays the role of teacher for the Velves, but does not lead them.


I disagree.
The identity of the undead lies with their nature, not their appearance. Any race can become a undead. Now the living playable races depend on their appearance and cultural/social reality.

Velves (characteristics that define that they are corrupted by the void)
in the case of Belves and Helves, their political badges with their respective symbols (colors, flags, morals and ethics)
and who knows… even in a future Blizzard can bring Helves with a different model than the Belves creating an accentuated badge as in the case of the stormwind humans and the humans of Kul'tiras

Reducing those characteristics to put other characteristics that their counterparts possess, is to damage their identity as a group. I know that many here like the addition of new customizations for their aesthetic value, but the narrative value is given by the identity.

Umbric answers to Alleria. When you get your heritage armor, Alleria makes a speech. When you /whatever the command you do in battle to scream, you scream " For Alleria! ", like how Blood Elves scream " For Anasterian! ".

[Ardenaso]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the leader of the Ren'dorei is Umbric and he turned purple (literally). Alleria plays the role of teacher for the Velves, but does not lead them..

and only Umbric and his merrymen got turned purple; I doubt Alleria and Umbric will have to subject the new generation into the same process, so the Wayfarers can keep their fair skin

[Varodoc]

I actually just discovered that one of the void elves' line is "For Alleria!", I legit never used these voice emotes before. That's a nice parallel with Anasterian, huh. And with that comic in which the Void Lords want Alleria to take the throne, I wonder if this whole Thalassian conflict subplot will actually go somewhere.