Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Geckoo]

So out of curiosity what would you guys do/how would you feel if cannonicaly (for what ever reason) the vast majority of the current "HE" reunited with Quel'thalas?

I would feel insulted as a customer.

They know that the alliance high elf demand exists, it's been there for years and is not going away. But just a i can understand the design choice to avoid adding high elves, i would never understand a design choice that would hurt a part of your playerbase both by spiting on their petition and by giving what they asked for to part of the players that are against that petition. That would be repeating the same mistake Ion did the other day.

I'm not saying is not possible in a far future, but if that needs to happen, it needs to be a really slow walk that should start by not featuring more high elves on the alliance, because that's why we are talking about all of this in the first place.

Edit: BTW, i would love to leave the whole HE thing behind. Is not going to happen, they have their reasons... fine. But try to understand why void elves failed to satisfy that petition and try change them accordingly. Let's not forget that the HE demand we've seen latetly started a few months ago on a void elf feedback thread.

[Obelisk Kai]

I would feel insulted as a customer.

They know that the alliance high elf demand exists, it's been there for years and is not going away. But just a i can understand the design choice to avoid adding high elves, i would never understand a design choice that would hurt a part of your playerbase both by spiting on their petition and by giving what they asked for to part of the players that are against that petition. That would be repeating the same mistake Ion did the other day.

I'm not saying is not possible in a far future, but if that needs to happen, it needs to be a really slow walk that should start by not featuring more high elves on the alliance, because that's why we are talking about all of this in the first place.

Edit: BTW, i would love to leave the whole HE thing behind. Is not going to happen, they have their reasons... fine. But try to understand why void elves failed to satisfy that petition and try change them accordingly. Let's not forget that the HE demand we've seen latetly started a few months ago on a void elf feedback thread.

Change Void Elves how?

The whole rationale behind Void Elves was to grant the Alliance access to a type of High Elf that did not encroach on the theme or look of a Blood/High Elf.

If what you mean by changing Void Elves is to move them closer to Blood/High Elves either in look or in theme, that is almost certainly not to going to happen as it defeats the point of creating Void Elves in the first place and undermines the story we think Blizzard wants to tell with the Void Elves, a race of elves who wish to delve into the powers of the void at variance with the light focused Blood Elves.

It also encroaches on the fantasy of the 'pale skinned majestic elf' as Ion put it, which is intrinsic to the Horde now.

In fact, given Ion's hints, it is far more likely that it will be the Blood Elves who are changed with the addition of blue eyes customizations.

[Geckoo]

Change Void Elves how?

I guess we can agree that the only reason to deny playable high elves is that the fantasy ends up being the same, it has nothing to do with lore, population or even the fact that they share the same model, because all of that can be changed as needed (as proved by void elves). But the fantasy will always be the same or otherwise we would just be talking about a different type of elf, that's the issue with all those cool fan made concepts on this thread, they can be great, but they are certainly not the high elves we know, just as void elves.

So how can they actually be the different type of elf that meets both blizzard needs and player demands? It's a great challenge, but if their current implementation fails to do that (and i do think it fails), then Blizzard should try to change them up a bit.

First they need to work on the lore, and while i believe the best way to solve this would be to actually remake the whole unlock scenario to include high elves, that's very unlikely, so i would rather talk about the future.

We have blood and high elves on telogrus studying about the void, but no indication about if that means that they can actually become void elves or are just there learning about it. This opens up two questions...
- have void elves learned how to make more void elves?
- why would anyone willingly go through a process to become something that originally was the unwanted result of an accident?

In-game lore should try to answer those questions, but i'll use them to talk about the second part about how i would fix it.

In a world where void elves are able to teach others, it doesn't make sense that those that learn end up looking just as the other void elves, because, again, that was the undesired outcome of an accident that happened by a very specific situation that can no longer happen. It would make sense that going forward if void elves are able to teach other elves how to control the void, with Alleria & the locust walker involved, all of them could be able to keep their original looks, it's all about how they write their story.

When it comes to gameplay i'm talking about giving void elves the same option worgen's have. Void form (actual models) when you are in combat, optional normal elf form when out of combat, with customization options that would be heavily linked to their void forms.

Instead of thinking about a blood elf model that suddenly turns blue, think of it as a void elf model that has the option while out of combat to have a more human-like skin tone and more natural hair colors. Everything else would be the same: same eyes, same facial hair, earrings and hairstyles (without tentacles).

This way the high elf lore has some continuation and you also give them a model that allows them to roleplay as a high elf, but the void elf fantasy is still distinct enough. That would be a valid compromise for me.

And i'm fully aware that many pro high elf people don't want this, but they are still on denial about playable high elves. So let me add that if some day Blizzard wants to add playable high elves, they'll just do it, no matter what has happened to them lorewise in the past or even if blood elves already have blue eyes at that point (and i totally support that btw, just not a good choice to do it now).

[Gentlepenguin]

It's not twisting his words when I am basically using what he stated. He very clearly didn't rule it out more than the present. Should I accuse you of twisting his words because you are making him say it is 100% definite? No, that's not an argument. He specified that blurring faction lines isn't something they want to do in BoA ... not not something that will never happen. It's not twisting words to use everything that is said ... sorry to burst your bubble on that.

And yes, that's a way not the only way.

---

What was said: No high elves for the forseeable future.

What Anti-Helfers heard: No high elves ever!
What Pro-Helfers heard: High elves are possible!

Neither of those interpretations are true ... they just aren't.

A lot of people, including you, who claim to be objective, aren't looking at the full quote though:

So, Blood Elves kind of are High Elves with different eye colors and backstory in terms of their relationship to magic in the Sunwell. But if you want to be a fair-skinned, light, blonde-haired, tall, majestic, elf...that is a Blood Elf.

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions, but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple...we just met Alleria again...but they're not out there in the same way. When we add an Allied Race, there's a desire to have things be even more distinct especially between the two factions with the faction conflict being so prominent. And so, the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.

That said, obviously I understand you would love Alliance elves...you're an Alliance player, and want to be a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf. Sorry? The Horde is there and waiting for you. Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near-term to add High Elves as an Allied Race.

He explained their design philosophy behind Allied Races, which players can disagree with all they want about how much different or lore based something has to be, but that's not for the players to decide. From this we can extrapolate what Allied Races cannot be, according to the developers. This core philosophy behind Allied Races has to change in order for Alliance high elves to exist as a playable race, because we also forget the question that this was in response to:

When deciding on Allied Races, why did you choose Void Elves when High Elves seemed more of an organic and popular choice?

This is important because it enforces that when developers considered a high elf race, they chose something else. Just like many years ago, when deciding to add blood elves to the game, they chose to make them Horde.

From there you can only speculate about the time frame of what "no near-term plans" means. We know from his ramblings about the design philosophy for the GCD changes, that he's thinking about 10 years out. That's at least 4 expansions beyond BfA. The statement "anything is possible" is vague. A race of sentient ponies is possible, with those words, if you only look at those words alone, and not the entire statement of their design philosophy.

Changing the elf is something that in Blizzard's view already happened.

[Darththeo]

A lot of people, including you, who claim to be objective, aren't looking at the full quote though:



He explained their design philosophy behind Allied Races, which players can disagree with all they want about how much different or lore based something has to be, but that's not for the players to decide. From this we can extrapolate what Allied Races cannot be, according to the developers. This core philosophy behind Allied Races has to change in order for Alliance high elves to exist as a playable race, because we also forget the question that this was in response to:



This is important because it enforces that when developers considered a high elf race, they chose something else. Just like many years ago, when deciding to add blood elves to the game, they chose to make them Horde.

From there you can only speculate about the time frame of what "no near-term plans" means. We know from his ramblings about the design philosophy for the GCD changes, that he's thinking about 10 years out. That's at least 4 expansions beyond BfA. The statement "anything is possible" is vague. A race of sentient ponies is possible, with those words, if you only look at those words alone, and not the entire statement of their design philosophy.

Changing the elf is something that in Blizzard's view already happened.

You claim I am not objectively looking at full quote.
You post full quote.
You prove that it is you not objectively looking at it and prove you are disagreeing with what I said by agreeing with what I said.

Also, Blizzard tends to be considering the expansion after the one coming one ... they aren't 10 years out, more like 4 to 5. Even then, WoD is proof than things change while in the course of the expansion ... we lost a planned Raid Tier and in Legion we got a raid that wasn't originally planned. You are asserting a truth that isn't said and accusing the opposing side of doing that.

[Gentlepenguin]

You claim I am not objectively looking at full quote.
You post full quote.
You prove that it is you not objectively looking at it and prove you are disagreeing with what I said by agreeing with what I said.

Also, Blizzard tends to be considering the expansion after the one coming one ... they aren't 10 years out, more like 4 to 5. Even then, WoD is proof than things change while in the course of the expansion ... we lost a planned Raid Tier and in Legion we got a raid that wasn't originally planned. You are asserting a truth that isn't said and accusing the opposing side of doing that.

So you're essentially burying your head in the sand and ignoring their design philosophy until they explicitly state no high elves. I understand. Very objective.

[Ithekro]

Its more we find their stated design philosophy to be complete bullshit compared to what they are actually presenting in their own game. We see bullshit and are calling Blizzard on it. They aren't retracting it, because that won't save face. Instead they are issuing more potentially contradictory bullshit, just with other potential Allied Races (for both sides). So the more they do so, the more they will be called out on it.

[Broken Fox]

Its more we find their stated design philosophy to be complete bullshit compared to what they are actually presenting in their own game. We see bullshit and are calling Blizzard on it. They aren't retracting it, because that won't save face. Instead they are issuing more potentially contradictory bullshit, just with other potential Allied Races (for both sides). So the more they do so, the more they will be called out on it.

You say this like you’re being dealt an injustice somehow, like you’re owed high elves. It’s their game they can do whatever the fuck they want regardless of what you “call them out” on. The only power you have is over your subscription. You guys are nuts.

[ravenmoon]

To be honest, with void elves about, I have so many Thalassianelf toons on both horde and alliance, adding high elves to my list does nothing for me because I have blood elves.

So I'm fine as is but recognise others aren't, like those who play alliance exclusively or like the high elf fantasy.

A race is more than just cosmetic to some people, blitz should recognise that. Even if they looked identical, having a different outlook, philosophy and behaviour makes a group distinct. It was one of my issues with lightforged and highmountain, because they were littledistinct enough from Lauren and draenei it felt less prominent.

It why I like void elves, the void Ives them something unique vs blood elves, and if blood elves got a sub race on horde, I would route for something distinctive lot blood elf like San'layn. It won't matter that they have similar dark vibe as void elves because they would be distinct enough to the horde elf roster.

Same with highborne who offer something different from Oxford, but if highborne became it's own sub race, like a resurrected Farondis group on the alliance again it would be unique to alliance night elves as highborne aren't on the alliance.

Same for high elves, which I don't think will be that popular if they were given, I've maintained this for a while. High elves will please the die hard group, but have little impact outside it because of blood elves.

But there are some very innovative concepts for high elves to suitably and sufficiently distinguish them from blood elves as some posters have evidenced. Its down to blizzad. I would make hgih elves a blizzard shop obtainable allied race if i wwas deciding such things. As a player i dont think id be interested in high elves identical to blood elves, they'd need a distinct enough set up like some of the concepts, and even then I doubt...im all Thalassian tapped out after 10 toons btw void and blood

[ercarp]

Tried to go extremely tribal with this one.



EDIT: Noticed his weapon's perspective is a bit skewed but I'll just let it be for now.

EDIT 2: Fixed spear.

[Maljinwo]

Tried to go extremely tribal with this one.

Stealing Troll clothes I see

[Ramz]

Stealing Troll clothes I see

Not the first thing they did.

1) They stole troll lands
2) they stole troll enchants
3) they stole magic hammer from Amani blacksmiths because he made better weapons

...

So it's a natural step lol.

[Maljinwo]

Not the first thing they did.

1) They stole troll lands
2) they stole troll enchants
3) they stole magic hammer from Amani blacksmiths because he made better weapons

...

So it's a natural step lol.

To be fair, it's natural to try and go back being a troll

[ercarp]

Got a couple more female hairstyles done.

[Obelisk Kai]

Seems like the mods on the US forums have had enough and have deleted all extraneous High Elf threads, consolidating all discussion into one topic.

Now I mention this because it's very important people don't get the wrong impression from a community manager managing the community and seeing in this act proof that High Elves are being planned even as we speak.

Because that would just be silly.

[Deleted]

I would feel insulted as a customer.

They know that the alliance high elf demand exists, it's been there for years and is not going away. But just a i can understand the design choice to avoid adding high elves, i would never understand a design choice that would hurt a part of your playerbase both by spiting on their petition and by giving what they asked for to part of the players that are against that petition. That would be repeating the same mistake Ion did the other day.

I'm not saying is not possible in a far future, but if that needs to happen, it needs to be a really slow walk that should start by not featuring more high elves on the alliance, because that's why we are talking about all of this in the first place.

Edit: BTW, i would love to leave the whole HE thing behind. Is not going to happen, they have their reasons... fine. But try to understand why void elves failed to satisfy that petition and try change them accordingly. Let's not forget that the HE demand we've seen latetly started a few months ago on a void elf feedback thread.

It would be an interesting twist. I know people have said it before, but this who allied races thing has lead to people jumping to conclusions. Just because a race is active in an expansion or storyline does not mean they will become an allied race.

- - - Updated - - -

Its more we find their stated design philosophy to be complete bullshit compared to what they are actually presenting in their own game. We see bullshit and are calling Blizzard on it. They aren't retracting it, because that won't save face. Instead they are issuing more potentially contradictory bullshit, just with other potential Allied Races (for both sides). So the more they do so, the more they will be called out on it.

What do you mean called out? They obviously don't want to add HE at the moment, thats it. Maybe one day. Fight with your wallets if its that important to you.

- - - Updated - - -

Can I ask, whats with all the concept art showing HE as being all tribal and savage. They aren't like that at all, never have been. You talk about Velfs being an "asspull" then make up random nonsense about HE, to purposely make them different from BElfs ( even though BELFs are the continuation of HE culture.

[Utigarde]

To add a bit of fuel to the flame, Jaina's Angels have been renamed to Auric's Angels, so hopefully we'll see him around in BfA.

[Sorrior]

It would be an interesting twist. I know people have said it before, but this who allied races thing has lead to people jumping to conclusions. Just because a race is active in an expansion or storyline does not mean they will become an allied race.

- - - Updated - - -



What do you mean called out? They obviously don't want to add HE at the moment, thats it. Maybe one day. Fight with your wallets if its that important to you.

- - - Updated - - -

Can I ask, whats with all the concept art showing HE as being all tribal and savage. They aren't like that at all, never have been. You talk about Velfs being an "asspull" then make up random nonsense about HE, to purposely make them different from BElfs ( even though BELFs are the continuation of HE culture.

They were actually it is based on the WC2 style while emphasizing playable HE as being more rooted in the physical then just magical aspects of the world

My favorite designs though are the more celtic ones as we oddly don't have a celtic culture in gane yet

- - - Updated - - -

To add a bit of fuel to the flame, Jaina's Angels have been renamed to Auric's Angels, so hopefully we'll see him around in BfA.

Ya know at this point either blizz is trolling and DOES plan to make them or they just LOVE the hate....

[ercarp]

To add a bit of fuel to the flame, Jaina's Angels have been renamed to Auric's Angels, so hopefully we'll see him around in BfA.

-snip-

I'm a bit lost on the lore here. How does this name change point towards High Elves being more likely to be added?

[Darththeo]

So you're essentially burying your head in the sand and ignoring their design philosophy until they explicitly state no high elves. I understand. Very objective.

If that is what you take away, there is no point to reply because you don't understand what I am saying and twisted my words to suit your narrative.