Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[DeicideUH]

Thousand Boat bash, and we have two ships full of Alliance-friendly high elves (while the blood elves are yellow neutral).

I wonder where high elves get their boats. Beyond this holiday's, we have the boats in Icecrown, which are canon. But neither Dalaran nor Quel'danil are coastal cities. Where's the secret high elf island?

[matrix123mko]

Thousand Boat bash, and we have two ships full of Alliance-friendly high elves (while the blood elves are yellow neutral).

I wonder where high elves get their boats. Beyond this holiday's, we have the boats in Icecrown, which are canon. But neither Dalaran nor Quel'danil are coastal cities. Where's the secret high elf island?

On north of Lordaeron there is empty place.

[Nuggsy]

So why isn't this thread just full of 'If Void Elves can be a thing, High Elves should be a thing'

That's the bottom line. I'd rather not see half the alliance turn into high elves if they were to make them available but if your argument is 'there aren't enough of them to make a race' after they made VOID ELVES a thing. A splinter group of a splinter group... Idk what to tell you. There is no way there are more void elves than Quel'dorei. It's just not possible.

The only reason why Quel'dorei aren't a thing is because Blizzard doesn't want them to be a race for whatever reason. It's a shit reason but that's the reason.

[DeicideUH]

The only reason why Quel'dorei aren't a thing is because Blizzard doesn't want them to be a race for whatever reason. It's a shit reason but that's the reason.

That's pretty much it.

[Obelisk Kai]

So why isn't this thread just full of 'If Void Elves can be a thing, High Elves should be a thing'

That's the bottom line. I'd rather not see half the alliance turn into high elves if they were to make them available but if your argument is 'there aren't enough of them to make a race' after they made VOID ELVES a thing. A splinter group of a splinter group... Idk what to tell you. There is no way there are more void elves than Quel'dorei. It's just not possible.

The only reason why Quel'dorei aren't a thing is because Blizzard doesn't want them to be a race for whatever reason. It's a shit reason but that's the reason.

Void Elves are not a splinter group of Alliance High Elves. They are drawn from both Blood Elves, who have a viable population, and Alliance High Elves who do not.

Given how low Alliance High Elves numbers are confirmed to be, and that Void Elves can turn any willing adult thalassian elf into a Void Elf, there is no reason not to believe that the Void Elf population now outstrips the Alliance High Elf population. And any Alliance High Elf who has made the transformation of course reduces the population base of Alliance High Elves even further. So it is in fact perfectly possible.

As for why they aren't a thing, the 'whatever reason' is the one Blizzard told us. That they already are a thing as Blood Elves, a Horde race, and that to give an identical copy of a core Horde race to the Alliance unacceptably blurs the lines between the factions. Keeping the two factions in a two faction based game as distinct as possible is actually a very good reason not to do it.

[Ielenia]

As for why they aren't a thing, the 'whatever reason' is the one Blizzard told us. That they already are a thing as Blood Elves, a Horde race, and that to give an identical copy of a core Horde race to the Alliance unacceptably blurs the lines between the factions. Keeping the two factions in a two faction based game as distinct as possible is actually a very good reason not to do it.

Except, as explained numerous times, that explanation is bollocks at best, since nightborne are now part of the Horde, and void elves are now part of the Alliance. The whole "as distinct as possible" reasoning becomes null and void now that exact same silhouettes and animations have been given to opposite factions. "Skin color" is meaningless a distinction.

[Obelisk Kai]

Except, as explained numerous times, that explanation is bollocks at best, since nightborne are now part of the Horde, and void elves are now part of the Alliance. The whole "as distinct as possible" reasoning becomes null and void now that exact same silhouettes and animations have been given to opposite factions. "Skin color" is meaningless a distinction.

And as explained to YOU numerous times, your personal interpretation of what constitutes blurring the faction lines is just that, your personal opinion, with no basis beyond your grasping need to somehow prove the developers wrong.

The developers told us Alliance High Elves blurred the faction lines when answering a question about why Void Elves were chosen over Alliance High Elves. Therefore Void Elves are implied to be acceptable, whereas Alliance High Elves aren't.

You continually put forth the point regarding the silhouette. You continually insist it proves something. You continually refuse to accept the very simple explanation as to why you are wrong.

To summarise, no matter how close you personally feel Void Elves are to Blood Elves, Alliance High Elves are identical to Blood Elves. There IS a level of difference regarding Void Elves that Alliance High Elves do not possess and can never possess. And if there is point at which similar becomes too similar and therefore unacceptable, Void Elves are on one side of it and Alliance High Elves are on the other.

You argue that skin colour is a meaningless distinction. Numerous pro High Elfers agitating for 'high elf' like customization on Void Elves implicitly disagree. Skin colour differentiation has also been used by Blizzard on five of the eight existing Allied races, so far from being meaningless it is in fact a tool Blizzard reaches for to provide a necessary level of distinction between an Allied race and it's parent. Mag'har Orcs in fact are the result of a many year long request from fans for the ability to play a brown skinned Orc, and it is the different skin tones of the Mag'har which are the obvious differentiating factor between them and ordinary Orcs.

Attempting to rule out skin colour as a meaningful distinction is therefore a laughable argument. You are attempting to do so, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, because it is so blatantly obvious that it is a meaningful distinction in the context of new Allied races.

You ignore the differences in lore between Void Elves and Blood Elves, particularly how Void Elves are now imbued by the Void, in contrast to the light which is now sustaining the Blood Elves. That each group is now powered by two diametrically opposed forms of magic is a massive differentiation.

You ignore other physical changes, such as some Void Elves sprouting actual tentacles as a result of their connection to the Void.

You ignore the fact that every Void Elf, regardless of class, is able to wield the powers of Void as expressed by their racials that allow them abilities not open to Blood Elves such as short ranges teleports and manifesting an even strong void form.

And by ignoring all these differences, and latching onto the fact that they share a model with Blood Elves, you expect to convince us that the Void Elves have destroyed the faction wall?

[Ielenia]

And as explained to YOU numerous times, your personal interpretation of what constitutes blurring the faction lines is just that, your personal opinion, with no basis beyond your grasping need to somehow prove the developers wrong.

My "personal opinion", as how you like to call it, is shared by basically every single artist and developer who works on character design. Seriously, a simple Google search on "importance of character silhouette" will show no article or artist blog not emphasizing the utmost importance of character silhouettes.

The developers told us Alliance High Elves blurred the faction lines when answering a question about why Void Elves were chosen over Alliance High Elves. Therefore Void Elves are implied to be acceptable, whereas Alliance High Elves aren't.

You mean Ghostcrawler. Who is hasn't been a part of Blizzard for quite some time. Time enough to allow for a shift in opinion. An idea that is heavily supported by the addition of nightborne and void elves.

You continually put forth the point regarding the silhouette. You continually insist it proves something. You continually refuse to accept the very simple explanation as to why you are wrong.

And I will continue to do so. And it does. Because your explanation is based on a shoddy basis. You have the words of a developer who hasn't been part of the team for quite some time now. Words, mind you, said a good time after he left Blizzard. And words from Ion that basically amount to "you want to play as a Zandalari? Well, the Darkspear trolls are there for you." or "you want to play as a Wildhammer? Well, the Ironforge dwarves are there for you."

To summarise, no matter how close you personally feel Void Elves are to Blood Elves, Alliance High Elves are identical to Blood Elves.

Which is a reasoning rendered moot when you realize how very important character silhouettes are and how meaningless skin color is for character distinction, in a game about different-looking races.

You argue that skin colour is a meaningless distinction. Numerous pro High Elfers agitating for 'high elf' like customization on Void Elves implicitly disagree.

That's irrelevant, since we're basing this argumentation on the words of people who work in the industry, and not talking about players.

Skin colour differentiation has also been used by Blizzard on five of the eight existing Allied races, so far from being meaningless

It is meaningless when compared to the importance of character silhouettes and animations. Its lack of meaning becomes even more apparent when you realize that roughly 90% of the armor in this game cover your whole body. You simply won't know the difference between a night elf and a nightborne, or the difference between a void elf and a blood elf, until after their health bar color, outline color, or name color tell you which faction they belong to, and therefore which race they are.

You ignore the differences in lore between Void Elves and Blood Elves, particularly how Void Elves are now imbued by the Void, in contrast to the light which is now sustaining the Blood Elves.

And you ignore the lore differences between high elves and blood elves, particularly how high elves decided to stay true to the Alliance, and how they rejected the idea of siphoning mana from living beings just to sate their hunger. A difference that spawned a bloody rift between the two groups.

You ignore other physical changes, such as some Void Elves sprouting actual tentacles as a result of their connection to the Void.

A difference rendered null and void when you wear a helmet.

You ignore the fact that every Void Elf, regardless of class, is able to wield the powers of Void as expressed by their racials that allow them abilities not open to Blood Elves such as short ranges teleports and manifesting an even strong void form.

Racials. Laughable. "Racials blood elves cannot tap to." Even more laughable. Using character racials to argue racial differentiation is a laughable attempt at argumentation, Kai. Void elves are literal blood elves. Why do they not have the blood elf racials, then? They are just as magically-inclined as their Horde cousins. Why can't any of the races have the human racials of diplomacy and "every man for himself", for example.

[Aldo Hawk]

So why isn't this thread just full of 'If Void Elves can be a thing, High Elves should be a thing'

Because certain people do not accept the request and we had to expand the discussion. Also anti's red herrings and constant 'buts' didn't helped in having a readable discussion xd

This has bloated too much because we had to defend the request against too much bullshit.

The only reason why Quel'dorei aren't a thing is because Blizzard doesn't want them to be a race for whatever reason. It's a shit reason but that's the reason.

This is supposing they have a consensus on it. Which they don't. If they didn't wanted to do it they would have made it clear not by now, but by quite some time ago.

[Obelisk Kai]

My "personal opinion", as how you like to call it, is shared by basically every single artist and developer who works on character design. Seriously, a simple Google search on "importance of character silhouette" will show no article or artist blog not emphasizing the utmost importance of character silhouettes.

I like to call it your personal opinion because that is exactly what it is, personal opinion. And we are not discussing the importance of the silhouette in game design. We are discussing your opinion that sharing the silhouette and the silhouette alone single handedly demolishes the faction divide.

You mean Ghostcrawler. Who is hasn't been a part of Blizzard for quite some time. Time enough to allow for a shift in opinion. An idea that is heavily supported by the addition of nightborne and void elves.

No, I mean Ion Hazzikostas, this particular aspect has nothing to do with Ghostcrawler. The question Ion was asked in the 2018 Q and A was why were Void Elves selected and Alliance High Elves were not. You charge that sharing the silhouette alone has already ruined the faction divide, but Ion went into fairly robust detail as to why Void Elves were acceptable and Alliance High Elves were not. In summary, one is a variant and one is a clone.

And I will continue to do so. And it does. Because your explanation is based on a shoddy basis. You have the words of a developer who hasn't been part of the team for quite some time now. Words, mind you, said a good time after he left Blizzard. And words from Ion that basically amount to "you want to play as a Zandalari? Well, the Darkspear trolls are there for you." or "you want to play as a Wildhammer? Well, the Ironforge dwarves are there for you."

A retort undermined by the fact the developer I was referring to was Ion Hazzikostas not Ghostcrawler. As for Ion's words, if you want to play a High Elf, the Horde is there for you.

I am personally of the opinion that the differences between a Wildhammer Dwarf and a Bronzebeard Dwarf are too negligible for Wildhammers to be considered as Allied race material so, yes, the Ironforge Dwarves are there for you, close enough.

Zandalari Trolls have been portrayed as distinct from ordinary Trolls since patch 5.2. In his eponymous novel, Vol'Jin thinks to himself how the physically imposing Zandalari have been thought of as the high elves of Troll kind. There is a measurable distinction between ordinary Trolls and Zandalari which is why Zandalari are an Allied race.

Which is a reasoning rendered moot when you realize how very important character silhouettes are and how meaningless skin color is for character distinction, in a game about different-looking races.

Who rendered the reasoning moot? You? On what authority? On what grounds? It looks like another attempt to push an opinion as fact and it's funny how this reasoning conveniently nullifies developer objections to playable Alliance High Elves. One would almost think your argument is not driven by the facts at all, but an attempt to conform to your agenda.

That's irrelevant, since we're basing this argumentation on the words of people who work in the industry, and not talking about players.

You are aware that the rest of your post is a very long complaint as to why the developers, people who work in the industry, are wrong right? If you truly meant this, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Regardless, I point this out to show that even a large chunk of your community disagrees with you because for them, skin tone is clearly VERY important.

It is meaningless when compared to the importance of character silhouettes and animations. Its lack of meaning becomes even more apparent when you realize that roughly 90% of the armor in this game cover your whole body. You simply won't know the difference between a night elf and a nightborne, or the difference between a void elf and a blood elf, until after their health bar color, outline color, or name color tell you which faction they belong to, and therefore which race they are.

Which has always been the silliest retort. If that were truly case, this issue could be solved by telling those players who want Alliance High Elves to go full body armor and just pretend. That has never been an acceptable answer because they know that under that armor is a Void Elf, not the Alliance High Elf they wanted. And as soon as any Horde player see that the elf is an enemy, then THEY know it's a Void Elf, not a Blood Elf. Differentiation is more than the silhouette, which is what you are desperately trying to reduce it down too. You are arguing a point that simply does not hold up to scrutiny.

And you ignore the lore differences between high elves and blood elves, particularly how high elves decided to stay true to the Alliance, and how they rejected the idea of siphoning mana from living beings just to sate their hunger. A difference that spawned a bloody rift between the two groups.

Who says I ignore it? I just think it's meaningless. Alliance High Elves rejected siphoning mana from living beings, which is as relevant a division in modern WoW as a dispute over the gold standard would be today. That dispute is done. It is resolved. It is no longer a factor. No elf now siphons mana from living beings. The sole differentiating factor is that Alliance High Elves are followers of the Alliance, and that means they are divided by politics alone.

Political alignment is nowhere near enough of a reason to violate the faction divide.

A difference rendered null and void when you wear a helmet.

Which again is a point that only works if we accept your flawed proposition that silhouette is all that matters. It is more than that, it is aesthetic and is lore as well. Nobody who plays a Void Elf can pretend they are playing a true high elf, and that is deliberately by design and given the endless complaints by the rest of your community regarding Void Elves, they certainly don't think they can.

YOU know it's not a high elf under all that armour. Any any Horde player who comes across a Void Elf very rapidly figures out it's a Void Elf as well.


[/QUOTE]Racials. Laughable. "Racials blood elves cannot tap to." Even more laughable. Using character racials to argue racial differentiation is a laughable attempt at argumentation, Kai. Void elves are literal blood elves. Why do they not have the blood elf racials, then? They are just as magically-inclined as their Horde cousins. Why can't any of the races have the human racials of diplomacy and "every man for himself", for example.[/QUOTE]

The racials are an expression of unique abilities that characterise a unique race. Different races have different racials. Blood Elves can never duplicate the powers of a Void Elf because they are not Void Elves.
Void Elves are NOT literally Blood Elves. We know this because if you have done the recruitment scenario, you saw the process by which they were transformed. You saw Umbric before and after. Void Elves don't have Blood Elf racials as they are no longer arcane attuned, they are attuned to the void. They are called Void Elves after all.

[Aldo Hawk]

Blood elves ---------> Void theme ------------> Voilá

Void elves are literal Blood elves. They have been Blood elves all the time. They renamed, they were Blood elves, and then they got exiled and transformed.

Blood elves with Void painting.

Even their friggin' mounts are Blood elven with a void touch on them.

They are the far thing from a High elf that they could have released. Trying to say that it is a compromise of any kind is only done to fill the purpose of derailing the conversation.

[Ielenia]

I like to call it your personal opinion because that is exactly what it is, personal opinion. And we are not discussing the importance of the silhouette in game design. We are discussing your opinion that sharing the silhouette and the silhouette alone single handedly demolishes the faction divide.

And it does. Because that's the only thing that matters when discussing character distinctions. We're not playing a game where the races are human #1, human #2, human #3 and human #4, where skin color would actually matter. We're playing a game where all races are aesthetically distinct (or at least were until allied races): elves, dwarves, orcs, humans, tauren, etc, and where 90% of the armor in the game covers your whole body. So color of their skin (or fur) is meaningless. What matters is silhouette and animations.

No, I mean Ion Hazzikostas, this particular aspect has nothing to do with Ghostcrawler. The question Ion was asked in the 2018 Q and A was why were Void Elves selected and Alliance High Elves were not. You charge that sharing the silhouette alone has already ruined the faction divide, but Ion went into fairly robust detail as to why Void Elves were acceptable and Alliance High Elves were not. In summary, one is a variant and one is a clone.

Which one? I watched three of them (07/19, 10/11 and 12/14) and a question about high elves never popped up. I don't feel like sitting through a fourth.

A retort undermined by the fact the developer I was referring to was Ion Hazzikostas not Ghostcrawler. As for Ion's words, if you want to play a High Elf, the Horde is there for you.

"If you want to play as a Zandalari troll, the Darkspear trolls are there for you."

What Ion said there is complete and total bullshit and you know it. When people say they want to play as a high elf, they explicitly mean they do not want to play as Horde. They explicitly mean they do not want to be part of a group that would throw away their principles and morals to survive, draining mana from living beings.

I am personally of the opinion that the differences between a Wildhammer Dwarf and a Bronzebeard Dwarf are too negligible for Wildhammers to be considered as Allied race material so, yes, the Ironforge Dwarves are there for you, close enough.

And this is where you undermine your own argument, considering the culture differences between the Ironforge and Wildhammer dwarves are astronomical in comparison.

Zandalari Trolls have been portrayed as distinct from ordinary Trolls since patch 5.2. In his eponymous novel, Vol'Jin thinks to himself how the physically imposing Zandalari have been thought of as the high elves of Troll kind. There is a measurable distinction between ordinary Trolls and Zandalari which is why Zandalari are an Allied race.

Because the males stood upright? Big deal. Add a 'stand upright' option for trolls like it's been done to orcs.

Who rendered the reasoning moot? You? On what authority? On what grounds?

By the importance of silhouettes in character design.

You are aware that the rest of your post is a very long complaint as to why the developers, people who work in the industry, are wrong right?

Apples and oranges. You're basically saying that because players don't care about character silhouette then that means character silhouettes are not important.

Which has always been the silliest retort.

It's not. But thanks for your opinion.

If that were truly case, this issue could be solved by telling those players who want Alliance High Elves to go full body armor and just pretend.

Again, apples and oranges. Because even if my character was fully decked in armor, other NPCs would still refer to my character as "void elf", not high elf. My character selection screen would show the Telon'gus Rift instead of a high elven background.

Who says I ignore it? I just think it's meaningless. Alliance High Elves rejected siphoning mana from living beings, which is as relevant a division in modern WoW as a dispute over the gold standard would be today.

Oh yes. I forgot. How could I possibly forget all those news about wars and fights between nations, all that hatred that splintered nations apart because of a "dispute over the gold standard"...

Political alignment is nowhere near enough of a reason to violate the faction divide.

Except it is, considering that it's been shown that silhouette and animation uniqueness is not important.

Which again is a point that only works if we accept your flawed proposition that silhouette is all that matters.

It's not flawed. It's true.

YOU know it's not a high elf under all that armour. Any any Horde player who comes across a Void Elf very rapidly figures out it's a Void Elf as well.

And the reason that happens is because the color of the character's outline, name, or health bar. Not because they figured out because of the character's skin color.

The racials are an expression of unique abilities that characterise a unique race. Different races have different racials. Blood Elves can never duplicate the powers of a Void Elf because they are not Void Elves.

But void elves are literally blood elves. So why can't they duplicate their powers? Either way, a high elf playable race ("allied" or not) would have different racials as well. That's a no-brainer.

[Varx]

How can the silhouette be the only thing that matters. It's like saying a pepperoni pizza and a vegan pizza are the same thing just cuz they share a silhouette.

Claiming that velves are the same as belves or that the faction lines where demolished cuz of the nightborne/velf trade off is completely irrational.

Yes they share the silhouette but if you look at the entire picture then you clearly see the differences between velf/belf and nelf/NB and why the faction lines still have their integrity.


Now compare helves and belves, not only do they share the same silhouette but the same skin.

Lmao tough concept.

[FlubberPuddy]

How can the silhouette be the only thing that matters. It's like saying a pepperoni pizza and a vegan pizza are the same thing just cuz they share a silhouette.

Claiming that velves are the same as belves or that the faction lines where demolished cuz of the nightborne/velf trade off is completely irrational.

Yes they share the silhouette but if you look at the entire picture then you clearly see the differences between velf/belf and nelf/NB and why the faction lines still have their integrity.


Now compare helves and belves, not only do they share the same silhouette but the same skin.

Lmao tough concept.

Silhouettes matter because Ion said they matter. He spoke of how you’d “lose a sense of silhouettes” “lose a sense of identity” if say the Alliance had something like 40 races on its faction.

The funny thing about this is that since they gave the Thalassiannelf silhouette to Alliance with Void Elves, that means that silhouette is now part of Alliance identity.

Since Ion stated the importance of silhouettes for factions, that means people are justified for asking for making the unplayable High Elves in the Alliance, playable.

Since Thalassian silhouette is now also a part of Alliance identity. That’s how silhouettes matter, and it’s why Nightborne still continue to be even more unique in terms of model and silhouette to Night Elves than the Void Elves are to the Blood Elves.

If Horde can get, at the most basic differentiation, its own purple elf race then Alliance is allowed to get its own fair skin elf race. And hey would ya look at that it seems like as far as fair skin elves go for the Alliance, High Elves are the popular choice.

[Ielenia]

Even their friggin' mounts are Blood elven with a void touch on them.

Oh yeah. Another difference between high elves and blood elves: The high elven mount an unicorn-like horse. Check the Quel'dorei Steed:


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How can the silhouette be the only thing that matters. It's like saying a pepperoni pizza and a vegan pizza are the same thing just cuz they share a silhouette.

Wow. There is so much dishonesty in this line, it might be the most dishonest thing ever written in this megathread.

But let's humor you. Yes, they are the same thing, because both are pizza. Seeing the outline of one, you wouldn't bat an eye before saying "it's a pizza". But if you're asking which flavor of pizza it is, then you cannot say that, just like you can't tell if the human this outline belongs to is red-haired or blond. Or black haired. You can't tell if the human has a tattoo. Or a scar. Etc.

[Varx]

Silhouettes matter because Ion said they matter. He spoke of how you’d “lose a sense of silhouettes” “lose a sense of identity” if say the Alliance had something like 40 races on its faction.

The funny thing about this is that since they gave the Thalassiannelf silhouette to Alliance with Void Elves, that means that silhouette is now part of Alliance identity.

Since Ion stated the importance of silhouettes for factions, that means people are justified for asking for making the unplayable High Elves in the Alliance, playable.

Since Thalassian silhouette is now also a part of Alliance identity. That’s how silhouettes matter, and it’s why Nightborne still continue to be even more unique in terms of model and silhouette to Night Elves than the Void Elves are to the Blood Elves.

If Horde can get, at the most basic differentiation, its own purple elf race then Alliance is allowed to get its own fair skin elf race. And hey would ya look at that it seems like as far as fair skin elves go for the Alliance, High Elves are the popular choice.

Ion also said if you wanna play a fair skin elf then the horde is waiting for you. So i guess ypu guys just tend to cherry pick what the devs say to fit your agenda even though the same dev is clearly anti helf.

Also both factions only got one silhouette from the other with a heavy modified skin. That doesn't mean that the flood gates are open to flood both factions with the other's silhouettes. On the contrary the inclusion of velf/NB would make blizz even more mindful before making another swap let alone one that has already been done with an ass pull race when you could have gotten helves instead.

[Ielenia]

Also both factions only got one silhouette from the other with a heavy modified skin.

Which is completely irrelevant since the overwhelming majority of the armor in this game cover the whole body, head included. And you will almost never tell a blood elf apart from a void elf, or a nightborne from a night elf, on physical differences alone before the character's outline color, name color, or health bar color tells you which one it is.

[Varx]

Oh yeah. Another difference between high elves and blood elves: The high elven mount an unicorn-like horse. Check the Quel'dorei Steed:


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Wow. There is so much dishonesty in this line, it might be the most dishonest thing ever written in this megathread.

But let's humor you. Yes, they are the same thing, because both are pizza. Seeing the outline of one, you wouldn't bat an eye before saying "it's a pizza". But if you're asking which flavor of pizza it is, then you cannot say that, just like you can't tell if the human this outline belongs to is red-haired or blond. Or black haired. You can't tell if the human has a tattoo. Or a scar. Etc.

dude are you out of your mind?? They are obviously not the same thing, just like velves/helves. Yeah if you stare at them for a split second then yeah they might appear the same but when you take the time to see or in this case taste it, you'll know they're not.

When you make your toon you're not going to just skim it. Your going to customize it to your pref and you'll then know just how different a belf is from a velf.

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Which is completely irrelevant since the overwhelming majority of the armor in this game cover the whole body, head included. And you will almost never tell a blood elf apart from a void elf, or a nightborne from a night elf, on physical differences alone before the character's outline color, name color, or health bar color tells you which one it is.

And what about in the scenario where you wear revealing armor then, huh or are you still blinded by your bias?

You're going to tell me a belf and velf with all armor hidden are the same race? Double think harder bro.

[Obelisk Kai]

And it does. Because that's the only thing that matters when discussing character distinctions. We're not playing a game where the races are human #1, human #2, human #3 and human #4, where skin color would actually matter. We're playing a game where all races are aesthetically distinct (or at least were until allied races): elves, dwarves, orcs, humans, tauren, etc, and where 90% of the armor in the game covers your whole body. So color of their skin (or fur) is meaningless. What matters is silhouette and animations.

The fact armor hides a great deal of the model is what is meaningless. You cannot pretend that what is below the armor is different from what is actually there. Skin tones are a part of the package Blizzard has used to differentiate some Allied races for their parents. And Allied races did not remove aesthetic distinction from the game, in fact they have double down on aesthetic distinction as a way of differentiating some of the allied races from the parents. Mag'har skin tones, Highmoutain antlers...and Void Elf tentacles, hair colours AND skin tones.

Silhouette and animations is only one component out of several. You are attempting to argue that that is all that matters, a position undercut by the rest of your community who are actively arguing Void Elves aren't good enough and many of whom are arguing for High Elf style customizations on Void Elves!

Which one? I watched three of them (07/19, 10/11 and 12/14) and a question about high elves never popped up. I don't feel like sitting through a fourth.

While I doubt you have been participating in this topic for this long without viewing the 04/26 Q and A which crushed the pro High Elf community last year, I welcome the opportunity to once again link it for the reminder it is.



Note how the question is 'When deciding on Allied race, why did you choose Void Elves when High Elves seemed much more of an organic (and popular choice). In the answer, Ion says Alliance High Elves blur the lines between the factions but also states Void Elves are there to give the Alliance something like a Blood Elf to play. Like is not the same as identical, it is similar.

As such this statement refutes your opinion that silhouette is all that matters, because if it truly did Void Elves wouldn't actually exist.

It also refutes your insistence later on that Blood Elves and Void Elves are identical, given that something like a Blood Elf cannot be identical to a Blood Elf, like implies similarity, not being identical.

"If you want to play as a Zandalari troll, the Darkspear trolls are there for you."

I am not sure why you are quoting yourself with your Zandalari answer. The difference between Zandalari and ordinary Trolls is established in lore.

What Ion said there is complete and total bullshit and you know it. When people say they want to play as a high elf, they explicitly mean they do not want to play as Horde. They explicitly mean they do not want to be part of a group that would throw away their principles and morals to survive, draining mana from living beings.

No this really isn't a case where everyone is so awed by your grasp of the truth that we are refusing to acknowledge it to be petty. What Ion said was fully consistent with the game's lore. Your desire to play a 'specific' group of high elves without alteration on the Alliance is irrelevant. To grant the Alliance access to a core Horde race is profoundly unfair to the Horde and would undermine the Blood Elves. That is, and always has been, the fundamental issue.
Blizzard created the Void Elves to give the Alliance something like a Blood Elf, which as they established in the same interview is a High Elf.
And Moorgard confirmed that the Void Elves can convert other Elves into Void Elves, the High Elf wayfarers in Telrogus show this is not limited to Blood Elves.

So from my perspective it looks like Blizzard provided the Alliance with thalassian elves that preserve the integrity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the Warcraft franchise, that respects the boundary with the Horde faction, and which has a lore rationale that allows those who claim they wish to play an 'Alliance loyal Elf' to have what they say they have always wanted. I am of course completely unsurprised that the pro High Elf community refused to accept this compromise for what it was, because for the vast majority of that community the lore has been nothing than a convenient fig leaf to disguise the desire for an unaltered thalassian elf. This was established by the ridiculous popularity of the Unofficial Void Elf threads on the official US forums which spawned upwards of 11 threads at the end of 2017, BEGGING for Void Elves to be 'fixed' with normal high elf customizations.

So forgive me when I say your assertion that people want to play a morally upstanding, Alliance loyal Elf is patently absurd. Were that the case, Void Elves would have been more than enough. But given the clear and ongoing demand to 'fix' Void Elves by giving them 'high elf like' skins, I don't believe you. Such a 'fixed' Void Elf would still be a Void Elf. A huge chunk of your community is in it for just the aesthetics and the fact they refuse to take the offered 'out' of playing a Void Elf who was formerly an Alliance High Elf merely proves the point.

Lore. 'I want to play an Elf that was always loyal to the Alliance' goes across better in arguments than 'I want to play an Alliance Elf with pretty white skin tones'. Just because the pro High Elf community is canny enough to argue the former does not mean it isn't really about the later.

By the importance of silhouettes in character design.

No, that's not it. Nobody is arguing that isn't important. You are the one arguing that it is the sole factor worthy of consideration.

Apples and oranges. You're basically saying that because players don't care about character silhouette then that means character silhouettes are not important.

Again, you are completely missing the point. Character silhouette is important, but it is not the sole point of consideration on this matter. You are attempting to argue that it is, because once we broaden the scope beyond it even a little you automatically lose.

Again, apples and oranges. Because even if my character was fully decked in armor, other NPCs would still refer to my character as "void elf", not high elf. My character selection screen would show the Telon'gus Rift instead of a high elven background.

But that's precisely my point, YOU know it's a Void Elf under there and you can't pretend. You are employing a weird double think here. You are arguing that because you know it's not a high elf it's not what you wanted, but somehow Horde players are expect to feel that the faction boundary has been destroyed on the off chance they hesitate for a second when encountering your armoured Void Elf in a battleground before they realise it's a Void Elf?!

In that case the faction boundary was destroyed back in vanilla with the Orb of Deception.

Except it is, considering that it's been shown that silhouette and animation uniqueness is not important.

No, it isn't. Paradoxically Void Elves, far from being the trojan horse you insist they are, prove you wrong. Because Void Elves had to have everything else done to them, the skin tone changes, the hair colour change, the new hair styles, the new facial hair options, the new racials, the new lore, all of that had to be done before they were made available to the Alliance using the standard thalassian model. If you were right and silhouette and animation was all that mattered, and political opinion was irrelevant, they'd have just given you Alliance High Elves.

That they didn't, that they went out of their way to create the Void Elf variant, is irrefutable evidence that you are wrong.

It's not flawed. It's true.

Oh it very much is flawed. It's flawed because you are taking it alone, out of context, and pushing it because you think it's a winning point whilst driving your expressed agenda.

And the reason that happens is because the color of the character's outline, name, or health bar. Not because they figured out because of the character's skin color.

No, but YOU know it's a Void Elf thanks to the skin colour.

But void elves are literally blood elves. So why can't they duplicate their powers? Either way, a high elf playable race ("allied" or not) would have different racials as well. That's a no-brainer.

No Void Elves are not literally Blood Elves. Void Elves are transformed Blood Elves. They gained the powers of the Void and lost the powers of the arcane.If they were literally Blood Elves, they'd be called Blood Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

dude are you out of your mind?? They are obviously not the same thing, just like velves/helves. Yeah if you stare at them for a split second then yeah they might appear the same but when you take the time to see or in this case taste it, you'll know they're not.

When you 'taste' a Void elf you can clearly sense it is everything but a High elf and that it 'tastes' much much more similar to a Blood elf than a High elf.

Thanks for proving the goddamn point.

When you make your toon you're not going to just skim it. Your going to customize it to your pref and you'll then know just how different a belf is from a velf.

Their physical differences are 'tentacles' (which are more like dreadlocks, what a shame of 'tentacles'), beards (which they shouldn't have if Blood elves don't), hairstyles, and purple-blue-gray color schemes.

Their lore is literally 'Voided Blood Elves'. Their theme is literally 'Voided Blood elves'. In the Alliance.

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"If you want to play as a Zandalari troll, the Darkspear trolls are there for you."

I would prefer a comparison with forest Trolls. Which looks even more similar.