Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

You want a whole new personalization, voice, racial for those who are blood elves with blue eyes.

What is your reasoning for it not being possible?

Why a High elf say things Blood elves would say?

Oh yeah, 'Tauren are now our allies? Grea-...'

Oh yeah yeah

Customization for them? Why not?

Racials? Why would they use the same 'racials' (more like things their group does) as Blood elves? You know, as teachings from Kael'thas that they despised...

As you can see, you are the one talking from ignorance. As your last words in the sentence also proves.

High elves, just to start, as the most basic concept of what they are. Are not Blood elves.

The fact that this has to be repeated so many times just shows a willing lack of understanding that just rubs into trolling territory.

Blood elves are High elves. Even tho they don't call themselves like that anymore. And High elves are not Blood elves.

Is easier than a 3-point scheme. It's a 2-point scheme. Come on, what image of yourself do you want to portrait?

[elbleuet]

The thing is you are trying to pretend Veressa is more than she is, insisting she is on the battlefield 'because she is an important Alliance character' rather than the blatantly obvious reason she has turned up for the first time in two years, that she is Sylvanas' sister.

As usual, you're biaised.

When she was asked by Terenas to be an Alliance ambassador, and when she freed Alexstrazsa during the second war, she did not acted as "Sylvanas sisters". Sylvanas was a random character at this time.

Your comparison with Lor'themar is flawed because Lor'themar has nothing to prove. He is the acknowledged leader of the Blood Elves, a core Horde race, and an important character whose presence is justified on that basis.

My comparison is based on your arguments.

He did nothing during several expansions. He did nothing when the Horde and Azeroth were threatened by the Legion & Argus, so he's irrelevant.

[Rivex]

https://imgur.com/a/DUTnUpp

- - - Updated - - -


You are too naive to think you can cause some sort of 'ragefest' with that.

You are simply incorrect.

Only the other way is correct, and to some extent.

Someone being wrong is just someone being wrong.

And I don't think you are genuinely wrong, you know what you are doing, so I just reported it for what it is.

Good night.

You reported it and I respect your ability to do so... Doesn't that and your 2 page moaning and defending your views against it afterwards qualify as a 'ragefest'?
Many Devs have come out saying "you wanna play as a high elves? then play blood elves" I was merely basing my comment on that.

Reading the majority of your replies I think this subject is a little to close to home for you, you're forever shooting down people who go against your idea of high elves and call out their ignorance and how they're wrong. You don't need to be the white knight for High Elves accept peoples views instead of shooting them down. Please note I say accept their views and their ability to say it, not believe in them.

Good Morning.

[Obelisk Kai]

Hey I just refresh the "General Discussions" link on MMO-C to see new posts and was surprised to see the High Elf discussion so checked it out. As my posts denote I didn't even realize those were there.

Well we are entering the last month of this debate having relevance so I am not surprised to see it come back for one last hurrah. If the pro High Elfers haven't managed to convince Blizzard to change their minds by that point, and with Blizzard moving away from Allied races in the next expansion cycle (ARs will never be as regular again as they are in BFA), then it's done. Likely for quite a while.

Of course if blue eyes are given to Blood Elves, if Blood Elves are allowed to play in Alliance in some capacity, or if Void Elves are given High Elf like (not necessarily exact) skins, then we are also done.

Sure, an explanation that is full headcanon until explained by Blizzard. As I recall there were posts where people said "if High Elves are so important to Alliance where are they in the Faction War" well blam, right there in the finale lending their equipment.

People used to say High Elves didn't exist anymore since BFA didn't show their presence, as retarded as that sounds yet they didn't think so. Now it's well within others rights to say High Elves are contributing with Alliance forces by lending their ballistas

So this shuts down one of the silliest claims ever made.

Nobody said High Elves didn't exist anymore. That is exaggerating what your opponents say to make them look unreasonable. What has been said is that the High Elf exiles are so low in numbers as to be a non-factor.

There are no High Elven exile forces within the Alliance. This is a fact, as the only High Elven exile force of any merit is based in Dalaran. Dalaran did not participate in this battle and there are no High Elf exiles on the field of battle with the exception of Veressa. Veressa's appearance is a personal one in that she has a connection with her sister.

The total High Elven exile participation beyond Veressa in the war was four individuals, three of whom didn't even fight and the only evidence we have for Veressa's participation is that she has finally turned up at the very end.

So with the High Elves not having a meaningful presence within the Alliance, and the Alliance in command of a few ballistas from the third war era, and no High Elves about, my 'headcanon' explanation as you put it makes a lot more sense than your suggestion that the High Elves are a strong part of the Alliance and making weapons for them, even if they can't be bothered to show up and fight for them.

Because these ballistas don't answer that initial question, if High Elves are so important to Alliance where are they in the Faction War"?

They still aren't there.

Like I said, you can see her however you wish. Just as most people meme about how Lor'themar does jack-shit despite his position. You can see Vereesa how you want, just how people see Lor'themar how they want, Anduin how they want, Sylvanas how they want, etc etc.

It's inarguable.

Actually your point is that people have multiple, differing interpretations of the same character and so that would make the opposite of inarguable, which means that the position in question is beyond dispute. Multiple viewpoints produce arguments and is very much arguable.

Having said that, this isn't a case of people's differing views, which is why you've gotten the wrong end of the stick. This is about divining developer intent. Is Veressa here because she is a major, important Alliance character or is she here because she is Sylvanas's sister?

Given that the first words out of Alleria's mouth (Veressa says nothing) is 'Our sister' it would seem the emphasis is on the familial drama. She is not present because she is a major, important Alliance character because she is not a major, important Alliance character. At best she is a secondary character, although with Alleria's return she has seemingly been shunted to tertiary status.

- - - Updated - - -

As usual, you're biaised.

When she was asked by Terenas to be an Alliance ambassador, and when she freed Alexstrazsa during the second war, she did not acted as "Sylvanas sisters". Sylvanas was a random character at this time.

You mean in the books that featured her as a major character?

On that basis Aramar Thorne of Traveller is a major character.

Veressa has her moments in the books, but her importance in the stories where she actually played a major role does not translate into the game where she is a sidekick to someone else's story whether it be Rhonin, Jaina or Alleria.

My comparison is based on your arguments.

He did nothing during several expansions. He did nothing when the Horde and Azeroth were threatened by the Legion & Argus, so he's irrelevant.

You didn't actually address my core point, that Lor'themar has nothing to prove as an acknowledged racial leader, whereas Veressa is treated as representing the relevance of the High Elven exiles to the story. Lor'themar's presence or activities has no bearing on the importance of the Blood Elves, as they are a playable race.

Veressa is a proxy for your feelings. If Veressa is marginalised, it marginalises the High Elven exiles.

[Gurluas]

You reported it and I respect your ability to do so... Doesn't that and your 2 page moaning and defending your views against it afterwards qualify as a 'ragefest'?
Many Devs have come out saying "you wanna play as a high elves? then play blood elves" I was merely basing my comment on that.

Reading the majority of your replies I think this subject is a little to close to home for you, you're forever shooting down people who go against your idea of high elves and call out their ignorance and how they're wrong. You don't need to be the white knight for High Elves accept peoples views instead of shooting them down. Please note I say accept their views and their ability to say it, not believe in them.

Good Morning.

I mean he's not wrong. Blood elves and High elves are very different ideologically and culturally.
Could I use a Blood elf or a Void elf to RP a High elf? Sure, but the game will never consider me a proper High elf.

I see so much potential for High elves to be taken into a unique and different direction within the Alliance that resonates with their lore and backstory.
We do not want Blood elves with blue eyes, we want the High elves from the Alliance to be made playable and in a direction that resonates with the image they've been presented in since Vanilla.

So no we do not want the High elves to become void monsters. But there's so many paths open to change the High elven cultural identity into something far more distinct.

[Pheraz]

If blizzards analysts think bringing high elf skins for void elves gives them an increase of income it will happen. No matter if it makes sense, makes some people cry or give squirrels diarrhea.
If they think those X people wanting it are just a very loud minority then it won't happen.

[elbleuet]

You mean in the books that featured her as a major character?

On that basis Aramar Thorne of Traveller is a major character.

Veressa has her moments in the books, but her importance in the stories where she actually played a major role does not translate into the game where she is a sidekick to someone else's story whether it be Rhonin, Jaina or Alleria.

But Vereesa has always been an Alliance, secondary character since she's not a racial leader. But again, she's been more relevant to the story than some racial leaders of both the Horde and the Alliance.
And I'm sorry for you, but given the current state of the Horde (only 2-3 important leaders left as the rest of the leadership was either killed or exiled), Vereesa was more impactful on the story than all other current leaders of the Horde excepted Thrall. Not bad for a secondary leader

You didn't actually address my core point, that Lor'themar has nothing to prove as an acknowledged racial leader, whereas Veressa is treated as representing the relevance of the High Elven exiles to the story. Lor'themar's presence or activities has no bearing on the importance of the Blood Elves, as they are a playable race.

When the entire world is threatened, he has indeed. But instead he sat on his throne and did nothing to save the world he lives on.
Vereesa has nothing to prove either.

Veressa is a proxy for your feelings. If Veressa is marginalised, it marginalises the High Elven exiles.

That's a game Obelisk Kai. Take a deep breath And you know High elves and void Blood elves are in the Alliance and we have the 2 windrunner sisters at our side, I'm entirely satisfied I would have loved to get my playable High elves, but I can deal with my sexy void elf

[Obelisk Kai]

snip

It takes effort when quoting someone to remove their names, so that they don't receive a notification. If you don't want to debate because of the weakness of your position, simply don't respond.

[elbleuet]

It takes effort when quoting someone to remove their names, so that they don't receive a notification. If you don't want to debate because of the weakness of your position, simply don't respond.

You're refreshing this page every minute of your time since months and years Obelisk Kai so you actually don't need to receive any "notifications".
You just lack of arguments at this point, and that's why maybe you should stop posting in this thread for a moment

[Obelisk Kai]

You're refreshing this page every minute of your time since months and years Obelisk Kai so you actually don't need to receive any "notifications".
You just lack of arguments at this point, and that's why maybe you should stop posting in this thread for a moment

The point remains, when quoting someone it is polite not to edit the post so that they don't receive a notification in a desperate attempt to get the last word.

Your opinion on how often I post here is, ultimately, meaningless and seems to be a case of 'playing the man and not the ball' as they say.

As for 'lacking arguments', I don't think so. Remember, everything official said on this topic agrees with my interpretations, and your interpretations have collectively amounted to creative fan-fiction.

[elbleuet]

The point remains, when quoting someone it is polite not to edit the post so that they don't receive a notification in a desperate attempt to get the last word.

Your opinion on how often I post here is, ultimately, meaningless and seems to be a case of 'playing the man and not the ball' as they say.

As for 'lacking arguments', I don't think so. Remember, everything official said on this topic agrees with my interpretations, and your interpretations have collectively amounted to creative fan-fiction.

Nah. I know I will never get the last word with you for a simple reason : you're not here to debate Obelisk Kai. You're just here to say "I'm right and I'll explain to you why you're all wrong". This isn't debate, and never has been one So again, you won't need to receive any notifications since you're always there

As for 'lacking arguments', I don't think so. Remember, everything official said on this topic agrees with my interpretations, and your interpretations have collectively amounted to creative fan-fiction.

You think they agree. But this is just your interpretation at this point, nothing else.

[Obelisk Kai]

Nah. I know I will never get the last word with you for a simple reason : you're not here to debate Obelisk Kai. You're just here to say "I'm right and I'll explain to you why you're all wrong". This isn't debate, and never has been one So again, you won't need to receive any notifications since you're always there

I will admit it is hard to call something a debate when you have all the evidence on your side.

Your sole hope of course is that this world is indeed fictional, and the evidence is based on Blizzard's interpretation of how the game exists now. Unlike reality, Blizzard could change their mind. But until they change their mind, you are right, this isn't a debate and never has been as the facts presented are self evident as things stand.

You think they agree. But this is just your interpretation at this point, nothing else.

No, they clearly do agree. No playable High Elf exiles, and High Elf exiles ruled out because High Elves are playable as Blood Elves. That was our last word on the matter. If they've changed their mind they've not told us, and if they do tell us then that will become the latest word on the matter.

[Koroniss]

Actually, I will have to respectfully disagree there. This IS a debate (or least supposed to be one) between people wanting Alliance High Elves to be playable, with proposing different ideas as to the matter, and various other people, naturally including opponents.

It is NOT a debate that Alliance High Elves are not currently playable – that one is factual, indeed (Void Elves excluded). But the topic itself is what is self evident – suggestions and designs as to how AHE might work. Not whether they are playable, not even whether they will or will not be playable. Or at least this is what I subjectively find the thread to be.

[Ielenia]

As for 'lacking arguments', I don't think so. Remember, everything official said on this topic agrees with my interpretations, and your interpretations have collectively amounted to creative fan-fiction.

Saying that the official Blizzard statements agree with you is not really a good argumentative stance to take since those very statements have been put into question, in this thread.

You can call it "word of god" as much as you want, but Blizzard is not a god, or even as infallible as one. They make mistakes. They are not 100% correct in everything. "It's their story, so their word regarding the story is always the correct stance." Well, didn't Red Shirt Guy show that is not the case?

Blizzard's opinions and statements are not above reproach or criticism. Saying that their opinions agree with yours, by itself, does not make you any more or less correct than anyone else's.

[FlubberPuddy]

Well we are entering the last month of this debate having relevance so I am not surprised to see it come back for one last hurrah. If the pro High Elfers haven't managed to convince Blizzard to change their minds by that point, and with Blizzard moving away from Allied races in the next expansion cycle (ARs will never be as regular again as they are in BFA), then it's done. Likely for quite a while.

Lol, "one last hurrah", you must not realize this request has apparently been going on since the beta of WoW, before I was even privy of the Warcraft franchise. On the official forums, people are STILL talking about High Elves/debating about High Elves with a furor unseen by any other race request to this day. It will most likely continue even if you or me or the others here stop participating in said discussion. Because someone will always be requesting it until it may happen or the game ceases development.

That's not changing just because they don't get announced at Blizzcon, as many already expect no High Elf announcement for the entirety of BfA.

Maybe it will be "done for a while" but that's honestly what I expected it to be months ago, yet taking a gander on forums shows this not to be the case. What I am sad about is for San'layn peeps, it appears their content leader has lost hope since the recent War Campaign ousted Sylvanas as a selfish villain.

But yes, please. Consider it done. I'm sure there are many that won't mind if certain posters thought "it's over" and didn't participate anymore.

Of course if blue eyes are given to Blood Elves, if Blood Elves are allowed to play in Alliance in some capacity, or if Void Elves are given High Elf like (not necessarily exact) skins, then we are also done.

Sure if that's what you consider done then so be it. I don't feel anyone would lament over that. Also if either of the two above cases happen, I am pretty sure most people would at least feel "now this is at least a compromise now".

"Don't give up hope" was said strictly to High Elf fans. I don't doubt the fervor over them that still continues to this day isn't something Blizzard is thinking about for post-BfA future.

Nobody said High Elves didn't exist anymore. That is exaggerating what your opponents say to make them look unreasonable.

You say this very matter-of-factly but have you spent time on the US forum threads? I don't expect you too since you're EU, but the bold has in fact been said, or I should say it was something like "the Silver Covenant doesn't exist anymore because they're not in BfA, so they must've all died". Which at this point, SC is synonymous with High Elves anyway.

But the point is that kind of "logic" has been posted on US forums. It is not me exaggerating.

Actually your point is that people have multiple, differing interpretations of the same character and so that would make the opposite of inarguable, which means that the position in question is beyond dispute. Multiple viewpoints produce arguments and is very much arguable.

No, you miss my point. Which is that people have different viewpoints of lore characters and it is inarguable in the sense that they aren't going to change their viewpoint of such character through argumentation of another viewpoint.

Basically, if someone thought Sylvanas was God's gift to Azeroth (as easily can be seen some do even here on MMO-C) and someone else thought she was the most vile thing on Azeroth - 99.9% of the time it will be a waste of time trying to convince the other that their viewpoint "is the true one".

So argue all you want over Vereesa's importance/unimportance, my point is you can see her however you wish because to me your viewpoint of her doesn't matter. I have my own viewpoint of Vereesa and to me that's enough.

- - - Updated - - -

Now if you kind folks excuse me, I have more Classic to play

[elbleuet]

The funny thing is that when Blizzard doesn't seem to agree with Obelisk Kai, he blatlantly ignores it because it doesn't suits his arguments

[Aldo Hawk]

You reported it and I respect your ability to do so... Doesn't that and your 2 page moaning and defending your views against it afterwards qualify as a 'ragefest'?

And I respect your right (?) to be wrong.

Many Devs have come out saying "you wanna play as a high elves? then play blood elves" I was merely basing my comment on that.

Your rotten comment was solely based on creating discomfort on the thread. Don't take others as cretins.

Reading the majority of your replies I think this subject is a little to close to home for you, you're forever shooting down people who go against your idea of high elves and call out their ignorance and how they're wrong. You don't need to be the white knight for High Elves accept peoples views instead of shooting them down. Please note I say accept their views and their ability to say it, not believe in them.

That is what I do here and there is nothing wrong with it. You can't tell me to not answer to people who come here just to spout falsehoods and bullshit to -actually- shoot down the other side of the argument without logic or knowledge and with bad intents and willful misunderstanding.

Or even to not answer you about your inflammatory comments.

There is no justification for doing what you did. Only excuses on why what you said is 'nothing' or 'unimportant'. Nobody needs your ill comment to create even more discomfort.

Good Morning.

And good fucking riddance.

[Rhlor]

Actually, I will have to respectfully disagree there. This IS a debate (or least supposed to be one) between people wanting Alliance High Elves to be playable, with proposing different ideas as to the matter, and various other people, naturally including opponents.

It is NOT a debate that Alliance High Elves are not currently playable – that one is factual, indeed (Void Elves excluded). But the topic itself is what is self evident – suggestions and designs as to how AHE might work. Not whether they are playable, not even whether they will or will not be playable. Or at least this is what I subjectively find the thread to be.

I think this debate will not make sense in 9.0

it is clear that the factions are going to be dissolved at least in PVE. Then there is no alliance or horde. asking for high elves in the alliance when the alliance does not exist is meaningless. You want to play with a light-skinned blond elf in Stormwind? play a blood elf

[FlubberPuddy]

I think this debate will not make sense in 9.0

it is clear that the factions are going to be dissolved at least in PVE. Then there is no alliance or horde. asking for high elves in the alliance when the alliance does not exist is meaningless. You want to play with a light-skinned blond elf in Stormwind? play a blood elf

Remains to be seen if factions will dissolve (aka can group with whoever regardless of faction).

[ddi2]

Actually, I will have to respectfully disagree there. This IS a debate (or least supposed to be one) between people wanting Alliance High Elves to be playable, with proposing different ideas as to the matter, and various other people, naturally including opponents.

It is NOT a debate that Alliance High Elves are not currently playable – that one is factual, indeed (Void Elves excluded). But the topic itself is what is self evident – suggestions and designs as to how AHE might work. Not whether they are playable, not even whether they will or will not be playable. Or at least this is what I subjectively find the thread to be.

Some people debate here, some people don't. It should be obvious to anyone who had followed this thread that one certain famous poster in this thread is not actually debating anyone here, he is just desperately trying to prevent High Elves from happening as if Blizzard is reading this thread. He doesn't actually care how much sense High Elves make. And hence he bends and changes facts and his own previous arguments to be as anti-High Elf as possible. And he knows it, he deliberately does it. So arguing with him is not actually a debate. Or at least not a debate in a good faith.