Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[matrix123mko]

I would love to have the Naga in the Horde, heck, the first allies the BE had after leaving the Alliance were the Nagas!

Regardless, it would be a slap in the face if they add them with the HEs as they are in game already (same models as BE)

Oh, I miss the times when blood elves and nagas worked together. I want it now.

[Varx]

My logic is that High elves have, are, and will be Alliance, Varx. Your logic is that my logic has to be whatever fits your view.


Please go yell at the Mag'har then, I don't believe you are ok with them when they are Orcs with a different skin tone, with the excuse of the alternative universe in a bad taste way to give them some kind of a special theme.


Not forcing worgen players to transform could be cool tho.


That's your opinion, not an empirical fact.


It proves you are ok with whatever crap they come up with when it fits your stance on a discussion.

You, in an excercise of pure antagonism, willingly ignored why them being a customization option will be detrimental to having a complete playable option experience.

No you clearly mentioned Every cultural difference or experience not just the fact that their alliance. So going by that then defias joining the horde would be ok and not completely redundant or pandery.

All you're doing is just saying "oh hey this exists and some players identify with the VERY SPECIFIC group dispite the race already being playable so lets just make them an AR and give them new racials"

From a marketing stand point and resource stand point its completly illogical to just pump out new races just to pander to a few players who HAVE to RP to the T.

For you it sounds good on paper but you're thinking wishfully and like a fan not as a game developer.

Imagine the share holders reaction when blizz announces high elves for the alliance and freaking ogres for the horde. Come on man...

[Aldo Hawk]

No you clearly mentioned Every cultural difference or experience not just the fact that their alliance. So going by that then defias joining the horde would be ok and not completely redundant or pandery.

You are rounding up so many complex things as if it was so simple is not even funny, make a case, please.

All you're doing is just saying "oh hey this exists and some players identify with the VERY SPECIFIC group dispite the race already being playable so lets just make them an AR and give them new racials"

And that's a big miss from your part, since all I ever said was that High elves are part of the Alliance, and Alliance players don't have that part of their faction available to play.

From a marketing stand point,l and source stand point its completly illogical to just pump out new races just to pander to a few players who HAVE to RP to the T.

I see you are approaching a strategy where you pretend to have deeper knowledge about the matter in question through other areas that might be relevant, what a fail, it just takes someone to see just a bit under the façade.

Marketing's role is to sell anything through appropriate methods, your oh-so-enlightening point just shows an attempt to look as if you have deeper and more important points than what you actually have.

For you it sounds good on paper but you're thinking wishfully and like a fan not as a game developer.

Yeah, because the stupid fans never ever know what's good. Is it?

Imagine the share holders reaction when blizz announces high elves for the alliance and freaking ogres for the horde. Come on man...

Not only you think you can give proper points about marketing but also about shareholders?

I don't know who you have convinced in the past by presenting points like this, nor I don't want to know what these people are, but is not working with me.

Stop pretending to give deeper and important points when you are clearly coming up with that stuff, please, it's disrespecting.

[Varx]

You are rounding up so many complex things as if it was so simple is not even funny, make a case, please.


And that's a big miss from your part, since all I ever said was that High elves are part of the Alliance, and Alliance players don't have that part of their faction available to play.


I see you are approaching a strategy where you pretend to have deeper knowledge about the matter in question through other areas that might be relevant, what a fail, it just takes someone to see just a bit under the façade.

Marketing's role is to sell anything through appropriate methods, your oh-so-enlightening point just shows an attempt to look as if you have deeper and more important points than what you actually have.


Yeah, because the stupid fans never ever know what's good. Is it?


Not only you think you can give proper points about marketing but also about shareholders?

I don't know who you have convinced in the past by presenting points like this, nor I don't want to know what these people are, but is not working with me.

Stop pretending to give deeper and important points when you are clearly coming up with that stuff, please, it's disrespecting.

You dont need a degree in marketing and economics to have common sense in this matter. Races and classes are the biggest selling points in this game. The alliance already got thalassian elves in velves. You really think the majority of alliance players will feel appreciated when they get another rehash thats even less unique aaesthetically while the horde gets something brand new.

Ffs look at the vulpera and mechagnome fiasco. At least mechagnome look different than gnomes. Can you same the same for helves/belves?? Now imagine you get blue eyes belves and the horde gets light undead, ogres, etc, etc and you tell me blizz stock will be the same as if the alliance got something new too. As if alliance doesn't cry out horde bias enough.

And sure some fans have good feedback like account wide essences. But helves after u got velves, lol okay nerd go back to ur nachos and lord of the rings collectors set is what blizz would say.

Just because the alliance has helves is not a reason to add them. The horde also has taunka, hozen, kt humans, banshees, abiminations, etc. Doesnt mean any of those should be playable.

[Aldo Hawk]

You dont need a degree in marketing and economics to have common sense in this matter. Races and classes are the biggest selling points in this game. The alliance already got thalassian elves in velves. You really think the majority of alliance players will feel appreciated when they get another rehash thats even less unique aaesthetically while the horde gets something brand new.

Well, wanna play common sense?

What's bad for shareholders to 'resell' an already popular option as Blood elves with a variant? Oh yeah, they would be super upset about the same things you are upset about.

What's bad for marketing? If marketing's role is to sell things? They would announce it as the next coming of Jesus Christ as they do with anything else.

And about other players, you are very naive to think any addition has to please everyone. Look at mechagnomes, that disgusting concept has made it into the game, alongside Void elves and Draenei but even more into light than Draenei. Has the game collapsed in on itself and died? Well I'm still playing it so my sources are pretty good for me to say it didn't.

You are repeating that High elves would be a simple copy without nothing more than your word, while others can also say that they could (and should) come with extra customization and aesthetics for them (apart from what they have now).

Have Brown Orcs came with just that? Brown skin and that's all just like fans wanted all along? Food for though.

Ffs look at the vulpera and mechagnome fiasco. At least mechagnome look different than gnomes. Can you same the same for helves/belves?? Now imagine you get blue eyes belves and the horde gets light undead, ogres, etc, etc and you tell me blizz stock will be the same as of the alliance got something new too.

What a 'fiasco'. Is not like there are people being happy with their mechagnomes and everything that Blizzard introduces has to be agreed by a majority of the playerbase. Nu-uh b0i.

And sure some fans have good feedback like account wide essences. But helves after u got velves, lol okay nerd go back to ur nachos and lord of the rings collectors set is what blizz would say.

You didn't had enough with pretending to be a Blizzard marketing employee and a Blizzard shareholder that you also present your opinion as plainly Blizzard's as a whole?

Just because the alliance has helves is not a reason to add them. The horde also has taunka, houjin, kt humans, banshees, abiminations, etc. Doesnt mean any of those should be playable.

Yes, it's a reason for that.

No, I'm not gonna start asking for other things just because you tend to round up things. I'm asking for what I'm asking, keep your ill charged responses to yourself.

[Ielenia]

So Identical=not allowed and Variant=allowed,

Then there's your answer: make the high elves more distinguished from the blood elves. Hairstyles are apparently more than enough to satisfy the "different silhouette", and tattoos and other body markings can be added too.

Blood Elves are high elves, high elves are part of the Horde faction,

False. Blood elves are part of the Horde faction. Not high elves. High elves are part of the Alliance faction. I honestly cannot fathom how one can constantly go against objective information shown over and over again in the game and lore.

I thankyou for falling into the trap of using Gnomes as a comparison.

It's amazing how you think you got a "gotcha" so hard you completely missed the point. Lore can be changed or expanded upon. Case in point: the high elves were just those of the Quel'lithien, but then the Wrath of the Lich King expansion came along and added a whole bunch of new high elves in Dalaran.

I'm afraid it is a lazy response

But it's not. You only call it "lazy" because you know you cannot honestly answer it and must use ad-hoc rationalization to avoid answering the argument while still making yourself look "superior" and "still 'winning'".

- - - Updated - - -

As far as I know there are no night elves in the horde, not even random npcs. I'm not sure what you're talking about. If by chance you are refering to nightborne then that is a subrace of nightelves which have evolved in over 10 000 years of isolation and exposure to the nightwell.

The nightborne possess the same model (which minute differences), are also purple, and have the same animations. They also "take" a huge chunk of night elf lore. Hell, they even call themselves "highborne" and Suramar is the birth place of Tyrande.

[Varx]

Well, wanna play common sense?

What's bad for shareholders to 'resell' an already popular option as Blood elves with a variant? Oh yeah, they would be super upset about the same things you are upset about.

What's bad for marketing? If marketing's role is to sell things? They would announce it as the next coming of Jesus Christ as they do with anything else.

And about other players, you are very naive to think any addition has to please everyone. Look at mechagnomes, that disgusting concept has made it into the game, alongside Void elves and Draenei but even more into light than Draenei. Has the game collapsed in on itself and died? Well I'm still playing it so my sources are pretty good for me to say it didn't.

You are repeating that High elves would be a simple copy without nothing more than your word, while others can also say that they could (and should) come with extra customization and aesthetics for them (apart from what they have now).

Have Brown Orcs came with just that? Brown skin and that's all just like fans wanted all along? Food for though.


What a 'fiasco'. Is not like there are people being happy with their mechagnomes and everything that Blizzard introduces has to be agreed by a majority of the playerbase. Nu-uh b0i.


You didn't had enough with pretending to be a Blizzard marketing employee and a Blizzard shareholder that you also present your opinion as Blizzard's period?


Yes, it's a reason for that.

No, I'm not gonna start asking for other things just because you tend to round up things. I'm asking for what I'm asking, keep your ill charged responses to yourself.

Look we could keep going back and foward all day but the facts remain.

Wildhammers tattoo options, maghar having multiple orcs clans in 1 race, and the fact that blizzard gave the alliance an asspull race in velves instead of high elves when their lore was already solidified is proof of what blizzard thinks of helves as their own race. It's not going to happen, its right in front of your face.

Like why give velves when helves are in such high demand. Because they're already playable lmao.

[Obelisk Kai]

Calling it a bratty reaction does nothing but minimize that there's lots of players in the community who have legitimate criticisms with how Void Elves were handled and the hypocritical response given about High Elves during a time when Nightborne were also given.

Calling it a bratty reaction is appropriate. If you gave a child a present that was very similar but not exactly what they wanted and there were circumstances at play that prevented you from giving what exactly was wanted, say (to continue the child analogy) the present they wanted was owned and played with by another child they knew and they wanted that specific one, then yes, an upset reaction would be correctly categorised as bratty.

In this case, there are genuine red lines which prevented them from granting an exact duplicate of a core Horde race to the Alliance which the hardcore pro High Elf community disregards or ignores and holds in such contempt that they cannot conceive as to why they've been denied, hence the rejection of the Void Elf compromise by the hardcore.

And the Nightborne are as varied from the Night Elves as Void Elves are from Blood/High Elves. Both are variants whose parent race is on the other faction. Variants were acceptable so long as they were different enough not to cross the red lines laid down. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to learn that the reason the Horde got the Nightborne was to justify giving Void Elves to the Alliance, a variant for a variant.

Identical is not acceptable however. That really does damage faction diversity, hence why they developed those variants.

This is the reason I bring up your BFA review, what I am showcasing is you commenting as if they are utterly logical and infallible regarding their statements on High Elves, yet you only comment this way because it fits with your heavy bias. You are not arguing it from a position where even many in the community who are neutral have also stated the Blizzard responses were illogical and hypocritical.

They've maintained the stance that Blood Elves are high elves for nearly fifteen years now. It is telling I can go back to the Caydiem post in 2005 and still find what she said at the time is applicable to what they've said on the topic in 2018. You will also find I was defending their stance on not adding high elves during the Warlord of Draenor era and I wasn't complimentary about that expansion either. This is a daft line of reasoning on your part predicated on your own bias, that they are wrong and that their foolish errors on other parts of the game prove they are wrong as evidenced by your claim that 'others' say Blizzard responses were illogical and hypocritical.

They've made mistakes they are rightfully excoriated for. Preserving faction distinctiveness and integrity is not one of those mistakes. As long as there are two factions, those two factions should be respected. And should they ever remove those two factions you'll be allowed to play...a Blood Elf with Alliance players. Not sure how that counts as a win but I suspect objections Blood Elves aren't high elves will evaporate should that day come, highly unlikely as it is.

It is possible sure. But again that is not how your comments come off on the matter, you tend to argue that the developers words and their ideas are infallible, you do not come off as "regarding these matters I find their stance suitable." Nope, you argue "these developers know 100% what they're doing and understand the pillars of their game and are doing all they can to make sure those pillars do not crumble! WORD OF GOD" and yada yada.

Then comes your BFA review trashing that they had no idea what they were doing. So is it inconceivable that just because you may not find 'wrong', that others do? Leaving High Elf topic for a moment, it's not even a secret that the way Void Elves themselves were implemented is considered the worst way to implement any new playable option. People, who don't even care about the High Elf topic, still comment on how Void Elves were introduced in one of the worst ways possible with such defunct lore (what lore? they'd say) that trying to minimize the criticisms aimed at them and act as if developers can do no wrong is hurtful to future implementations of race options.

The importance of faction diversity is something of an abstract concept when compared to something more hands on such as the increasing systemification of the game or the benefits of a deterministic loot system versus the supposed excitement of a more RNG approach. Nor is an abstract concept as easy to judge as a story is, given story beats can be readily critiqued and character development evaluated. It's case of comparing apples to turnips then because you keep reach out for things to draw an equivalence with the high elf debate but the truth is, this particular strand of discussion is fairly unique.

The desire for the exiles is itself an abstract demand. It will not improve the gameplay experience of the individual, they won't get more loot or become better at the game or become more powerful. Instead it a desire for personal gratification, to play a race they want on the faction they want, and there are multiple requests along these lines. The problem with this one, and the reason the devs are correct, is that it crashes against other abstract concepts.

Would it damage faction diversity? Yes it would because whether people like it or not, Blood Elves and the exiles are the same race divided by an opinion. As Blood Elves are a Horde race, granting a duplicate of that race to the other side diminishes faction diversity.
Is faction diversity important? Yes it is, factions only make sense if they are diverse. If factions are the same they become little more than what is your preferred colour, red or blue.
Does the faction system help or harm Warcraft? Debateable, my own position is that it isn't cost free but that there are benefits and the benefits outweigh the costs. So long as the faction system endures, faction diversity is an important component of fostering faction adversity which is the point of having factions, having an enemy.
Granting high elves to the Alliance undermines faction diversity, which in turn undermines faction adversity which in turns weakens a foundational pillar of the franchise.

Hence what they have said on this unique topic, because no other topic deals with duplicating a core race of one faction to the other, is in fact true because the premise relies upon how you feel about the faction divide yourself. It is thus emblematic of a wider question.

The 'how' of Void Elves being introduced is entirely separate from the 'why' they were introduced. In the long run only a few will care that their introduction was a badly written rush job. Their purpose was to provide a variant for the Blood Elves to join the Alliance and as none viable existed, one had to be created on the fly. Emphasis on the word variant there, a high elf in a bad tattoo (as was so often proposed) is as much a separate race from a Blood Elf as my brother is a separate race from me because of his tattoos.

You come off as someone who often doesn't share their opinions because you want to be part of the status quo, because you often never want to be wrong. So you wait in silence until your position is the status quo and then become outspoken on those matters. This reduces the chances you'll have people challenging your opinions. Just like how I've stated in the past you were so completely wrong about not getting Nightborne before they were revealed to be an Allied Race.

I've been wrong plenty of times and I've happily shared my opinions on multiple topics which don't conform to the 'status quo'. In fact, you cite one yourself where you mention how I thought Nightborne wouldn't be added to the game before being revealed as a sub-race candidate. It is curious to claim one thing about me and then to provide the evidence that you are wrong yourself, all in the same paragraph. It is after all, about the evidence and where it points. The evidence at the time suggested playable Nightborne was unlikely but of course there was no commentary from the developers at that point on that topic, it was all based on opinion and precedent and I did indeed call it wrong. Conversely they've told us in very clear terms over the past two years that high elves aren't happening, why they aren't happening, and that the reason they aren't happening is still pretty important to them.
Ignoring evidence shows up your own worst flaw, an inability to deal with that lack of evidence in support of your position and a tendency to leap upon any uttering, no matter how vague, and refashion it into a boost for your position no matter how unjustified. From blues asking for feedback to be kept in one place in forums threads, to Ion saying 'Anything is possible', to Void Elves skins being 'possible' to the most recent interview with a dev talking about certain positives of cross faction play, nothing it seems is too vague to not be a source of renewed hope for something they clearly, in very strong terms, on one occasion very clearly laughing at you, have ruled out.

But it's okay though if you're like this. As I said, no one has to be beholden to your opinions. Nobody has to "get Obelisk Kai's blessing" and Blizzard isn't waiting on what you have to say to make their decision regarding their matters.

They don't need my blessing, they have it anyway on this topic due to their consistent and wise decisions on this particular topic. I don't think they particularly care either way mind you.

On top of their own internal decision making, they take from the playerbase their collective feedback (such as the recent changes to account wide essences next week). And it's not hard to see that collective feedback shows this:

1) High Elves for Alliance still maintains the most popular race request
2) Void Elves were introduced in a hamfisted way that has yet to be paid off
3) Even Void Elf fans want to secure High Elf skins

It's simply a matter of time before Alliance gets its form of High Elves playable among its faction's playerbase.

That the compromise didn't please everyone was immaterial because nothing they do ever pleases everyone. Flying threads are still fairly endemic on the forums with each expansion grounding us after all and that is set to continue. They've given the Alliance void elves, you can make of them what they will but be in no doubt that the Alliance already has it's 'form' of high elves in the Void Elves, and a Void Elf with different skin tones is still a Void Elf. The traditional, standard high elf experience exists in one place alone and that is on the Horde as the Blood Elves.

Because none of the other options had their question frequently asked within a QA. Do you believe, looking back now that BFA finished, their answer for Mogu/Ogre/Hozen/San'layn would be categorically different?

They would give the same intended "No plans right now but anything's possible in the future". How would they be able to give any other answer? It's clear they already knew what Allied Races they were going to include for BFA, and that was the context of the question itself "why Void Elves instead of High Elves for Allied Race." Even Ion's answer, which you often like to remove this portion of his reponse, included "in an faction based expansion".

It's a faction based game, that was true before Batttle for Azeroth and given their responses at Blizzcon where they doubled down on rejecting cross faction play, it's going to be the truth for some time to come as well.

Does this mean Ogres are not Horde faction material? No, it would be preposterous for one to think so, but they were not added during BFA so they must not be considered such going by your logic. That's silly.

Ogres are not currently playable as high elves are via Blood Elves and Void Elves. As such they fail as a point of a comparison.

I don't get your point here. I believe we've discussed this matter before and the feedback/evidence that majority of playerbase given regarding WH Dwarves as increased customization favors my side.

That is to say, it doesn't matter if Wildhammer Dwarves are "Bronzebeard with dwarven tattoos" because the concept that is a Wildhammer Dwarf meets all expectations: It's a Hill Dwarf with tattoos that's available on the Alliance side. People are ecstatic, because it nails everything: Faction, race, and classes.

That I've argued they won't have WH Dwarf racials is minor, as people care more that they can look and play as the character they want to be on their chosen side.

If WH Dwarves were given to Horde for some innane reason you'd have many in the Horde laughing and cheering at their new dwarven option while many in the Alliance upset one of their iconic races has gone to Horde side. It would be a shitshow of equal or greater proportions to when Void Elves first came out.


Read above: it doesn't matter to the general playerbase. Why do you think so many cheered at the Troll options shown during the Blizzcon reveal of increased customizations? The playerbase doesn't give a shit that "tan sand trolls aren't darkspear" they're happy to "play the different troll tribes", especially if we get forest troll coloration among them. You will see most forest troll fans heralding, "I can finally play a forest troll!"

Once again, not everything is the same and there are critical nuances in the individual examples that render a one size fits all approach impossible. What happens with the Dwarves and the Trolls are irrelevant, the first thing you know about any Dwarf or Troll rolled in this game is that they are in Dun Morogh or the Echo Isles. That is it. Their backstory is entirely up to you. Same for every other core race, you are limited only by your imagination and the circumstances of the race. Your Dwarf could be a Wildhammer come south to learn mountain dwarf ways. Your troll could have had a forest troll mother. Entirely up to you.

But we know what makes a Void Elf, getting zapped by enough void energy to trigger a transformation. There is a discrete set of events that makes a Void Elf. You cannot play a Void Elf who was never a Void Elf. You cannot play a Lightforged Draenei who never lightforged. You cannot play a Nightborne who wasn't a Nightborne. Certain races are circumscribed by their backstories. Many aren't. So the Wildhammer got what they wanted but what they wanted can never be replicated into what you want, being a genuine high elf using a void elf as a substitute. That simply doesn't work. A Void Elf is always going to be a Void Elf. You can roleplay an exile who was turned into a Void Elf, but never an exile who was never a Void Elf.

[Aldefard Aelfwine]

Blizzard:*Gives paladins to the Horde and shamans to the Alliance*

Blizzard:*Adds identical pandarens to both factions*

Also Blizzard: -High elves can disrupt the identity of factions.

[FlubberPuddy]

But we know what makes a Void Elf, getting zapped by enough void energy to trigger a transformation. There is a discrete set of events that makes a Void Elf. You cannot play a Void Elf who was never a Void Elf. You cannot play a Lightforged Draenei who never lightforged. You cannot play a Nightborne who wasn't a Nightborne. Certain races are circumscribed by their backstories. Many aren't. So the Wildhammer got what they wanted but what they wanted can never be replicated into what you want, being a genuine high elf using a void elf as a substitute. That simply doesn't work. A Void Elf is always going to be a Void Elf. You can roleplay an exile who was turned into a Void Elf, but never an exile who was never a Void Elf.

A Void Elf must take in Void but that does not mean they must look pale/sickly blue/purple. Alleria is the example of this.

I do not think most care if they select "Void Elf" if we in fact get to look like Alleria. A being who took in Void, and is referred as Void Elf.

Just as they write new explanations for how AR DK are made that conforms to previously established lore. They can very easily explain High Elf customization on Void Elves by saying "they took in Void in a different way similar but not same as to Alleria, a new refined approach of taking in Void."

Somehow you're trying to make it come off as some win by saying "you'll still be a Void Elf despite High Elf customization!" despite knowing that vast majority will not care, just as they do not care for Wildhammer Dwarves being shoehorned into Bronzebeards. They finally get to play the race they want on the faction they want.

[Varodoc]

It really isn't rocket science.

"After months of research in Telogrus Rift, Magister Umbric and his people found a way to switch back to their Quel'dorei form like Alleria."

Done, pink skin tones for Void Elves available.

[FlubberPuddy]

Calling it a bratty reaction is appropriate. If you gave a child a present that was very similar but not exactly what they wanted and there were circumstances at play that prevented you from giving what exactly was wanted, say (to continue the child analogy) the present they wanted was owned and played with by another child they knew and they wanted that specific one, then yes, an upset reaction would be correctly categorised as bratty.

In this case, there are genuine red lines which prevented them from granting an exact duplicate of a core Horde race to the Alliance which the hardcore pro High Elf community disregards or ignores and holds in such contempt that they cannot conceive as to why they've been denied, hence the rejection of the Void Elf compromise by the hardcore.

I mean you can then call any complaints at Blizzard "bratty". I can say your complaints to them are bratty because they've explained why they went in the direction they did for the game as they still don't acknowledge it was a completely wrong direction.

You're essentially trying to say, "you should be happy with what you're given and give no complaints". If that's to be the case then no one should be giving any negative feedback on anything right? Oh but you're going to tell me the exception is here in this topic only.

And nice hand-waving that again, people only continue to bring this up because it's such a popular request.

Just like people will continue to bring up cross-faction gameplay, or flying at begining of expansions, or getting rid of titanforging. It has nothing to do with being bratty and all it means is you're calling posters children which can be see as grounds for infraction.

[Aldo Hawk]

Blizzard:*Gives paladins to the Horde and shamans to the Alliance*

Blizzard:*Adds identical pandarens to both factions*

Also Blizzard: -High elves can disrupt the identity of factions.

This, basically, while ignoring the fact that High elves ARE Alliance identity.

[FlubberPuddy]

The problem is saturating the damn game with redundant races just because some players cant get past the fact that technically high elves exist in the horde, just not the extremely specific group of high elves they want.

"Redundant races" are not a problem. People don't dislike solely because some are redundant, they dislike a 'race slot' is 'used up' to grant the redundancy, which btw most have been ok for the Void Elf/Nightborne swap because you are bringing something that doesn't already exist on one faction (A Blood Elf to Alliance | A Night Elf to Horde).

This is why crowds cheered and hollered when they unveiled the increased customizations that are going to be added to existing race slots. Despite that people call mechagnomes and LFD and HMT "redundant", because the reasoning these AR are "redundant" is because they could've been much better implemented through their existing race slots and thus being better received.

And btw Mag'har Orcs and Dark Irons are exceptions here as well, people praise them as AR go, despite being "redundant" because why? They were highly requested since forever. Again, the redundancy is not the main detractor.

The use of an extra slot is what's the contention, not the idea of having a more mechanized gnome, a holier draenei, or more nature-y tauren.

[Aldo Hawk]

The use of an extra slot is what's the contention, not the idea of having a more mechanized gnome, a holier draenei, or more nature-y tauren.

And this is Blizzard's fault for releasing so many allied races at the same time, half of them not being even expected or historically wanted (Bless Aman'thul we got Dark Irons and 'Mag'har' somewhat, and Zandalari.), and then slowing the release of races dramatically while the banners have a shape and size that makes people think that such thing is 'finite'.

I'ts all psychological crap people came up with mixed with Blizzard's fuckery.

[Frenchvince]

https://www.deviantart.com/runicknig...ture-833185486

[Ardenaso]

Blizzard:*Gives paladins to the Horde and shamans to the Alliance*

Blizzard:*Adds identical pandarens to both factions*

Also Blizzard: -High elves can disrupt the identity of factions.

back to square one: make Wardens Alliance exclusive and make Shadow Hunters Horde exclusive

[FlubberPuddy]

back to square one: make Wardens Alliance exclusive and make Shadow Hunters Horde exclusive

I'd support that.

[Sinraye]

They are Night Elves. Their island team literally carries "The Highborne" moniker which is what the upper class of Night Elf society called themselves. Highborne is a Night Elven societal term. All Nightborne all Highborne, thus all Nightborne are Night Elves.

Nightborn can trace their roots to Night Elves to one society yes, but 10 000 years of isolated existence has made them a separate society. While one can argue that both of them can claim the name ”Night Elves”, they have in fact grown into two completely different societies and cultures, and even physique (due to night well exposure). Noone sees nightborn like the playable race that is called night elves, they emit a completely different feeling. High elves and blood elves are separated by 10 years with no significant differences whatsoever, especially now that the sunwell is restored. It’s the same race, same culture, different eye color.

[matrix123mko]

https://www.deviantart.com/runicknig...ture-833185486

Simple but good.

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Nightborn can trace their roots to Night Elves to one society yes, but 10 000 years of isolated existence has made them a separate society. While one can argue that both of them can claim the name ”Night Elves”, they have in fact grown into two completely different societies and cultures, and even physique (due to night well exposure). Noone sees nightborn like the playable race that is called night elves, they emit a completely different feeling. High elves and blood elves are separated by 10 years with no significant differences whatsoever, especially now that the sunwell is restored. It’s the same race, same culture, different eye color.

Well, blood elves are Highborne too.