Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Rhlor]

Wider high elven society was never particularly invested in the Alliance. The only reason there was a high elven presence in WC2 was because Anasterian sent a token force to support the humans to repay an ancient debt to Lothar's ancestors which he wished to be rid of.

As the war developed, they were, of course, glad to have human support when the war spilled into Quel'Thalas thanks to the Amani. But, after the war was over, Quel'Thalas left the Alliance.

High elves are only present in the Alliance forces in WC3 because of a few volunteers, acting on their own volition, going to aid Arthas or they were citizens of Dalaran.

Quel'Thalas and thereby wider pre-schism high elven society was never really Alliance beyond mutual favour-giving. They were certainly never ideologically invested in the Alliance. Only a minority of individuals (which later collectivised in institutions like the Silver Covenant) were ever Alliance "patriots". As such, high elves really shouldn't be considered a core Alliance race. They never really were. The prominence of a few high elven heroes like Alleria who chose, as individuals, to pledge themselves to the Alliance merely gives the illusion that they were.

This is not to say that high elves being present in the Alliance isn't interesting. I love the lore of the schism in modern Thalassian society and the fact that this conflict is exacerbated by taking part across faction lines. But, I think people will be disappointed if they continue to insist that "high elves" are a fundamental aspect of the Alliance.

I remember an alliance user many years ago who pointed out that the difference between blood elves and high elves always existed that there were always Thalassians who preferred the alliance over quelthalas and that there were always Thalassians who preferred quelthalas over the alliance, the elves who they prefer the alliance they leave quelthalas to live in the human kingdoms are individuals not the government nor the majority of the population of quelthalas. the government of quelthalas with anasterian as king always preferred not to be part of the alliance and the majority of the people of quelthalas agreed with that.


for this user I think his name was fojar or something like that and that he was a great lover of high elves that was what made them special that was what he liked best about high elves who were so loyal to the alliance that they preferred to leave quelthalas and fight your own nation in favor of the alliance.

and I think this is correct. There were always patriotic high elves and high elves who preferred the alliance, and that ideological difference is a good thing that it exists.

[Thalassian Bob]

I remember an alliance user many years ago who pointed out that the difference between blood elves and high elves always existed that there were always Thalassians who preferred the alliance over quelthalas and that there were always Thalassians who preferred quelthalas over the alliance, the elves who they prefer the alliance they leave quelthalas to live in the human kingdoms are individuals not the government nor the majority of the population of quelthalas. the government of quelthalas with anasterian as king always preferred not to be part of the alliance and the majority of the people of quelthalas agreed with that.


for this user I think his name was fojar or something like that and that he was a great lover of high elves that was what made them special that was what he liked best about high elves who were so loyal to the alliance that they preferred to leave quelthalas and fight your own nation in favor of the alliance.

and I think this is correct. There were always patriotic high elves and high elves who preferred the alliance, and that ideological difference is a good thing that it exists.

Agreed. As a Thalassian patriot, high elven zealotry for the Alliance has often rubbed me the wrong way, but I've always acknowledged that that shows effective storytelling in that it gives me a visceral reaction.

[Rhlor]

Agreed. As a Thalassian patriot, high elven zealotry for the Alliance has often rubbed me the wrong way, but I've always acknowledged that that shows effective storytelling in that it gives me a visceral reaction.

and this is what alliance players who want to play with those high elves always talk about, the high elves who always preferred to be aligned with the alliance over queltalas.
the elves who prefer to let quelthalas die at the hands of the scourge rather than fight to save their kingdom.
the difference between those who prefer the alliance and those who prefer quelthalas is the ideological difference.
The question is if you are a patriot who loves quelthalas and are willing to do everything to save our kingdom and the sunwell or on the contrary you are a stateless person who prefers to be in the alliance and want to seek more knowledge and powers in the void.

I am a patriot and I will always fight for quelthalas.
selama ashala nore

[Alanar]

Or High Elves become something different and you nasty, greedy night elf mage fanatics stop talking about our race.

Both that and the stupid warcraft 2 argument for high elves. Either move with the lore or just stay away from it. The endless discussions about old lore isnt helping any argument. Warcraft rts games are a long time ago...things change.

I also agree with you about the moderators. The message should be more up front. This is a blood elf thread, not a nightborne, night elf thread.

@ravenmoon sometimes its better to just.. not post your fanfiction in every thread and ruin it. It could save threads you know. Also funny thing to note.. countless people have been asking/suggesting to keep your posts short.. the message never landed. This causes people to avoid/ignore you. If thay is the wish then it worked.

[ravenmoon]

Or High Elves become something different and you nasty, greedy night elf mage fanatics stop talking about our race.

It’s as much my race as it is yours.

That may be so, no one is doubting that a person will try to defend his home. What is being said here is not that the horde can't have blood elves (would be better if they didn't at all), but if they do, they shouldn't be the high elves they've been painted as, nor should they have the high elf civilization.

Now as a story goes, it's acceptable for them to have started off with it, but it shouldn't remain that way. The blood elves like they are right now, are high elves in all but name, in a very high elf civilization, this is too alliance, and the best of the alliance, for both reasons it shouldn't be like that if you're gonna remain a horde race. What's alliance should be seen and experienced in the best way on the alliance, not taken to the horde, it does neither faction any good.

Pick one:
Either stay in that high elf /alliance framework but be very small so that you're barely noticeable on the horde - [this allows high elves on the alliance eto shine and horde races not to be obscured by their high elves. OR

Blood elves on the horde must become something different enough from the high elves they were, in character, attitudes, civilization etc, even appearance, certainly in architecture - no more high elf stuff, give them something new, different.
[Same arguments apply for Nightborne they must not be so kaldorei and alliance minded or in that civilisation they must change to fit the horde or be barely noticeable if you want that alliance pie on the horde, it has to be very small]

Tier approach. The way it is now
- is not good lore wise
- it is not good for the elves,
- it’s not good for the alliance and
- it’s not good for the horde. WRT to story, faction integrity and capturing & maintaining the original heart of the horde and alliance.

There are 3 positions that are all better than the current situation. And I will list them in order of my preference.

currently both alliance and horde have high elves. And both have the night elves. They are just under different names on the horde and given more of these very alliance civilisations in the horde. This isn’t good. It is this that must change. And here are 3 ways that would work

My first choice:
1. The elves and their civilisations go neutral in the story: with some individual or small groups of elves in either Night group or Thalassian group choosing to stick with the alliance or horde. The player character will be one of these.

This maintains faction identity and integrity of the horde in particular and the alliance to a lesser extent as the elves are taken out of both and it doesn’t really matter if more of one group favour one faction over the otheramongst the players, the nations are neither alliance nor horde even though elven civilisations are alliance conceptualised things.

Here at least the horde doesn’t have that very alliance thing on it. Night elves, who were always unique enough to be their own faction are fine in this neutral capacity even though their identity, character, history and both their 2 major era cultures and make up are far closer to the alliance than the horde, it works.

While the high elves are very much alliance, neutral will work given their history of yo-yoing between the two factions. Having their culture not on the horde is the most important thing as it affects the horde a lot more. They will always feel very alliance because that’s their make up, even when neutral, but far less damage to faction identity is done when they are neutral than when they are sitting pretty on a horde factions as high elves in all but name.

2. The elves on the horde largely return to their original roots but instead of neutrality it’s the alliance. 90% choose to resume their high elf identity allied to the alliance as in the Wc2/3 days and amongst the Nightborne most go neutral with about half favouring the alliance. They are more interested in elven kind.

The assets go alliance due to share numbers affiliation. 90% of the blood elves going high elves turns Silvermoon blue. And Suramar while supposedly neutral just clicks with many more alliance races including their Kaldorei kin than horde races having a much larger alliance presence visiting - it’s just how the lore is when they made this groups. They were alliance minded and just stuck them on the horde. If they really wanted a horde race they would have made them differently. We all know and can see it fits the alliance more. Skewing the city blue even though both factions have access to Suramar and Nightborne choose their friendships per individual, their citizens free to choose their friends while the city is officially neutral. The civilisation continues as it is, I.e a Kaldorei civilization which the alliance players will identify a lot more than horde players (presumably only belf players will identify with Suramar whereas on the alliance, night elf, void elf, high elf, Draenei, human, gnome and dwarves players can all identify with Suramar their arcane dispositions will boost resonance.

fact in this state, more Nightborne will befriend alliance races

The loss of the alliance elven civilisations on the horde here is made up for by more Troll ciVilizations like the Drakkari and Zul’Drak, the Amani and Zul’Aman, The Farakki and Zul’Fatal. Goblins getting Kezan and Indermine , Mag’har turning Grommasj Hold into Grommash City in Borean Tundra.

The horde will feel a lot less diluted by alliance civilisations with only a remnant of the elven races their in their very high elf and night elf character. This would also work

3. The Blood elves and Nightborne stay horde but change, they are written away from being the alliance centred high elf and Kaldorei civilisation so as to make them different from the alliance and/or closer to the other horde races.

Here they either lose Suramar and Silvermoon in which case the alliance get them and they build something new for the horde elves that reflects their departure form their high elven and Kaldorei nobility roots they’ve so far being operating with on the horde.

Or they change these cities to reflect their new alliance divorced idenetity (i.e. re model Silvermoon and Suramar, even rename them) in which case Blizz builds the alliance night elves and high elves newer and better versions of both the Kaldorei and Thalassian civilisations.

This would be my 3rd choice. But all of them work

In all these cases the identity of the horde and the alliance are pulled further apart and made more distinctive restoring the original faction ethos faithful to the RTS and classic

also common to all these is that both the alliance and horde continue to have elves

but the high elf and Kaldorei cultures and civilisations are all on the alliance or much stronger their. Whereas on the horde it’s much reduced. And feels that way to players. Even in option 3, the new change in the blood elves and Nightborne will mark them apart from the high elves and Kaldorei nobility they’ve been operating as.

[Thalassian Bob]

and this is what alliance players who want to play with those high elves always talk about, the high elves who always preferred to be aligned with the alliance over queltalas.
the elves who prefer to let quelthalas die at the hands of the scourge rather than fight to save their kingdom.
the difference between those who prefer the alliance and those who prefer quelthalas is the ideological difference.
The question is if you are a patriot who loves quelthalas and are willing to do everything to save our kingdom and the sunwell or on the contrary you are a stateless person who prefers to be in the alliance and want to seek more knowledge and powers in the void.

I am a patriot and I will always fight for quelthalas.
selama ashala nore

Agreed. I flit between different characters across the factions, but Quel'Thalas will always be my spiritual home in WoW.

I think elves like those in the Silver Covenant are often as you describe, but I've got a void elf I'm playing at the moment and I'm musing on a backstory for her that allows her to be a patriot but still bat for the other team (while game mechanics demand it).

Roughly so far, I'm thinking:

- Farstrider who lost her husband in an Amani raid during the Second War
- Couldn't remain in Quel'Thalas because everything reminded her of him (her sister is still there)
- Decided to go to Dalaran to get away from it all and join the city's defences to distract herself
- Third War happens, Quel'Thalas is decimated and Archimonde destroys Dalaran
- She helps with the rebuilding of Dalaran while waiting for news of Quel'Thalas
- Hears her sister is alive and answers Kael'thas' call to return home to reclaim lands lost to the Scourge
- She returns home and is happy to reunite with her sister
- Talk of Silvermoon's leadership joining the Horde drives her away again due to her hatred of the Amani and by extension all trolls and their orcish allies
- She joins the Silver Covenant to keep the Horde out of Dalaran
- Helps SC forces claim Quel'Delar to keep it out of Horde hands, adamant it stays with Thalassians
- stays in Dalaran until the purges, she's horrified by her comrades' actions and refuses to participate
- she hears there is still a community of high elves living at Quel'Danil
- joins them until the Legion invades when she pledges to the Unseen Path
- delighted by Alleria's return, she seeks to join an old commander of the Farstriders
- believes in Alleria's quest to bring Quel'Thalas into the Alliance eventually
- chooses to take up study of the Void to protect Azeroth
- resents Sylvanas dragging Quel'Thalas and Thalassians in the Alliance into another bloody war after the relative peace in the wake of Sargeras' defeat
- helps efforts to track her down after the war
- Shadowlands

It's taken some time to map it all out but I'm quite happy with the motivations. She still loves Quel'Thalas, but can't return until it either severs ties with the orcs and trolls or rejoins the Alliance.

[Varodoc]

It's taken some time to map it all out but I'm quite happy with the motivations. She still loves Quel'Thalas, but can't return until it eithers severs ties with the orcs and trolls or rejoins the Alliance.

Which is after all what Alleria wants. She loves her homeland, perhaps more than any other Thalassian. She spent 1.000 years away from home on distant worlds to protect her homeland. It's just that she believes the Horde is detrimental to Quel'Thalas (which it is, of course), and seeks to protect it in her own way.

[Thalassian Bob]

Which is after all what Alleria wants. She loves her homeland, perhaps more than any other Thalassian. She spent 1.000 years away from home on distant worlds to protect her homeland. It's just that she believes the Horde is detrimental to Quel'Thalas (which it is, of course), and seeks to protect it in her own way.

I won't deny that Alleria still cares deeply for her homeland, but I feel like she was a bit too quick taking Vereesa's word as gospel on events since she left for Draenor (and beyond). Though, the Fourth War, through Sylvanas, probably helped vindicate a lot of what Alleria was probably told.

With a romantic partner who is an Alliance hero and a son who was raised among humans and pro-Alliance high elves, it's easy to understand why Alleria might have more of an investment in the Alliance than others. I wonder though, if the Sunwell hadn't had such a violent reaction to her presence, she might have skirted the lines between the two factions a bit more...?

[Rhlor]

Agreed. I flit between different characters across the factions, but Quel'Thalas will always be my spiritual home in WoW.

I think elves like those in the Silver Covenant are often as you describe, but I've got a void elf I'm playing at the moment and I'm musing on a backstory for her that allows her to be a patriot but still bat for the other team (while game mechanics demand it).

Roughly so far, I'm thinking:

- Farstrider who lost her husband in an Amani raid during the Second War
- Couldn't remain in Quel'Thalas because everything reminded her of him (her sister is still there)
- Decided to go to Dalaran to get away from it all and join the city's defences to distract herself
- Third War happens, Quel'Thalas is decimated and Archimonde destroys Dalaran
- She helps with the rebuilding of Dalaran while waiting for news of Quel'Thalas
- Hears her sister is alive and answers Kael'thas' call to return home to reclaim lands lost to the Scourge
- She returns home and is happy to reunite with her sister
- Talk of Silvermoon's leadership joining the Horde drives her away again due to her hatred of the Amani and by extension all trolls and their orcish allies
- She joins the Silver Covenant to keep the Horde out of Dalaran
- Helps SC forces claim Quel'Delar to keep it out of Horde hands, adamant it stays with Thalassians
- stays in Dalaran until the purges, she's horrified by her comrades' actions and refuses to participate
- she hears there is still a community of high elves living at Quel'Danil
- joins them until the Legion invades when she pledges to the Unseen Path
- delighted by Alleria's return, she seeks to join an old commander of the Farstriders
- believes in Alleria's quest to bring Quel'Thalas into the Alliance eventually
- chooses to take up study of the Void to protect Azeroth
- resents Sylvanas dragging Quel'Thalas and Thalassians in the Alliance into another bloody war after the relative peace in the wake of Sargeras' defeat
- helps efforts to track her down after the war
- Shadowlands

It's taken some time to map it all out but I'm quite happy with the motivations. She still loves Quel'Thalas, but can't return until it either severs ties with the orcs and trolls or rejoins the Alliance.

you see it, your character is stateless! an elf who puts her personal feelings before her homeland. someone who cannot, would rather see quelthalas die than accept that without the quelthalas horde he would have been lost or at least all ghostlands would be lost.
That is the difference between someone who puts the good of the nation first, and someone who puts their personal feelings first.
all lost someone the race is on the brink of extinction and quelthalas is destroyed, all are suffering but some prefer to stay to fight than to seek security in the alliance.

[Varodoc]

I won't deny that Alleria still cares deeply for her homeland, but I feel like she was a bit too quick taking Vereesa's word as gospel on events since she left for Draenor (and beyond). Though, the Fourth War, through Sylvanas, probably helped vindicate a lot of what Alleria was probably told.

With a romantic partner who is an Alliance hero and a son who was raised among humans and pro-Alliance high elves, it's easy to understand why Alleria might have more of an investment in the Alliance than others. I wonder though, if the Sunwell hadn't had such a violent reaction to her presence, she might have skirted the lines between the two factions a bit more...?

She was willing to learn from Sylvanas why she ended up in the Horde, but Sylvanas messed up that reunion.

Timeline-wise, I think that reunion happens between the end of Legion and Nightborne recruitment scenario, which explains why Alleria is already devoted to the Alliance by the time she journeys to the Sunwell (as she offered Theron to rejoin the Alliance).

[Beloren]

Both that and the stupid warcraft 2 argument for high elves. Either move with the lore or just stay away from it. The endless discussions about old lore isnt helping any argument. Warcraft rts games are a long time ago...things change.

thanks to your statement here I think I understand Ravenmoon and Mace at last. They view warcraft through the context of the original material. High elves, alliance, horde, and off course night elves, when you factor in the WotA presundering lore.

It makes total sense, this why they keep harping on about the kaldorei's original culture being relevant to the race's identity, and now are harping on about high elf identity, alliance identity and horde identity. They want things to continue along the originally defined lines. THeir sense of continuity is based on old lore they feel should still be reelvant and more, characterise the races, or at least under pin them.


They're traditionalist or purists.

I also agree with you about the moderators. The message should be more up front. This is a blood elf thread, not a nightborne, night elf thread.

You wanna fix that before Ravenmmon or Rhlor sees it, it's a High elf thread not blood elf

It’s as much my race as it is yours.

Tier approach. The way it is now
- is not good lore wise
- it is not good for the elves,
- it’s not good for the alliance and
- it’s not good for the horde. WRT to story, faction integrity and capturing & maintaining the original heart of the horde and alliance.

I don't entirely agree.. I see where you are coming fom, but I am okay with the new identity of the horde.

I'm okay with a bit of the alliance on the horde if that's how you view the current blood elves and Nightborne - you have a point that it is alliance based, but I think that's okay.

While total homogenisation isn't good, a little is fine.

I'm okay with the horde having a little alliance in the elves. I don't need the horde to remain the purer RTS/classic entities that they were. And when blizzard didn't choose to use a brand new race, but an allinace race in TBC, they made the choice to homogenise their factions a bit.

I think most fans are okay with it.. you'd have a hard time proving how bad this is compared to teh original vision.

And to be frank it's blizzard that need to decide whether it's original horde/alliance they want more off or to continue to evolve them into something more mixed.

Rather than have horde and alliance totally distinct, it could be the horde is characterised as mixture of the two factions while the alliance continues in that vein, just minus the elves who are now horde. Alliance fans may not like it, but what if that's what blizzard wants? I'm fine with that.

There are 3 positions that are all better than the current situation. And I will list them in order of my preference.

currently both alliance and horde have high elves. And both have the night elves. They are just under different names on the horde and given more of these very alliance civilisations in the horde. This isn’t good. It is this that must change. And here are 3 ways that would work

My first choice:
1. The elves and their civilisations go neutral in the story: with some individual or small groups of elves in either Night group or Thalassian group choosing to stick with the alliance or horde. The player character will be one of these.

This maintains faction identity and integrity of the horde in particular and the alliance to a lesser extent as the elves are taken out of both and it doesn’t really matter if more of one group favour one faction over the otheramongst the players, the nations are neither alliance nor horde even though elven civilisations are alliance conceptualised things.

Here at least the horde doesn’t have that very alliance thing on it. Night elves, who were always unique enough to be their own faction are fine in this neutral capacity even though their identity, character, history and both their 2 major era cultures and make up are far closer to the alliance than the horde, it works.

While the high elves are very much alliance, neutral will work given their history of yo-yoing between the two factions. Having their culture not on the horde is the most important thing as it affects the horde a lot more. They will always feel very alliance because that’s their make up, even when neutral, but far less damage to faction identity is done when they are neutral than when they are sitting pretty on a horde factions as high elves in all but name.

I could live with this option. I think most people have asked for this to be fair.

2. The elves on the horde largely return to their original roots but instead of neutrality it’s the alliance. 90% choose to resume their high elf identity allied to the alliance as in the Wc2/3 days and amongst the Nightborne most go neutral with about half favouring the alliance. They are more interested in elven kind.

The assets go alliance due to share numbers affiliation. 90% of the blood elves going high elves turns Silvermoon blue. And Suramar while supposedly neutral just clicks with many more alliance races including their Kaldorei kin than horde races having a much larger alliance presence visiting - it’s just how the lore is when they made this groups. They were alliance minded and just stuck them on the horde. If they really wanted a horde race they would have made them differently. We all know and can see it fits the alliance more. Skewing the city blue even though both factions have access to Suramar and Nightborne choose their friendships per individual, their citizens free to choose their friends while the city is officially neutral. The civilisation continues as it is, I.e a Kaldorei civilization which the alliance players will identify a lot more than horde players (presumably only belf players will identify with Suramar whereas on the alliance, night elf, void elf, high elf, Draenei, human, gnome and dwarves players can all identify with Suramar their arcane dispositions will boost resonance.

fact in this state, more Nightborne will befriend alliance races

The loss of the alliance elven civilisations on the horde here is made up for by more Troll ciVilizations like the Drakkari and Zul’Drak, the Amani and Zul’Aman, The Farakki and Zul’Fatal. Goblins getting Kezan and Indermine , Mag’har turning Grommasj Hold into Grommash City in Borean Tundra.

The horde will feel a lot less diluted by alliance civilisations with only a remnant of the elven races their in their very high elf and night elf character. This would also work

I don't think I could ever agree with this one, as one of the horde elf fans you speak of, none of us would ever agree to this. Besides I think it is un-necessary

3. The Blood elves and Nightborne stay horde but change, they are written away from being the alliance centred high elf and Kaldorei civilisation so as to make them different from the alliance and/or closer to the other horde races.

Here they either lose Suramar and Silvermoon in which case the alliance get them and they build something new for the horde elves that reflects their departure form their high elven and Kaldorei nobility roots they’ve so far being operating with on the horde.

Or they change these cities to reflect their new alliance divorced idenetity (i.e. re model Silvermoon and Suramar, even rename them) in which case Blizz builds the alliance night elves and high elves newer and better versions of both the Kaldorei and Thalassian civilisations.

But I do not entirely think the blood elves are the same ol ' high elves, blizzard did show them as much darker and magic reckless, aggressive, with a killer instinct in TBC, and they were quite fine with slaughtering Night elves and alliance in Azshara, Desolace in Cata, and in WoT after legion - they were still magic/power hungry even in Legion if you follow the Reliquary archaeology quests.

Same in BFA if you follow the Blood elf Island expedition teams. Now not all of them are like that, people Aethas and Liadrin are more high elf, but I think you feel this way because many of the horde fans are complaining about how Light orientated the blood elves are now or talk about missing the darker grade blood elves of TBC.

But I'll question if this has genuinely changed - so the blood elves already have departed from the High elves based on their starting story and not really fully reverted back. It's just fans that argue away the fel corruption effects because they don't like it, you're listening to them, if you follow the story ,t he blood elves are not quite that high elven.

But you're right about them retaining the civilization.

The nightborne are the ones I will agree with you about. Thalyssra's type Nightborne really are just arcane Darnassians, i.e. Highborne, that have a slightly different appearance. You don't get more alliancey feeling than Thalyssra - it sickens me, she and the rebellion should never have been the ones to join the horde. A repentant Elisande, come to her sense by her defeat, and turned to help us, with a bit more fire and danger to her should be the ones on the horde. The attitude of the Nightborne during the campaign felt a lot more horde like. Conquest orientated, aggressive - I liked these a lot better. But instead they gave us goody goody righteous Thalyssra

I think blizzard not really showing races or focusing on them much sometimes causes us not to see them for what they are and perception changes by the community aren't always accurate

[Thalassian Bob]

you see it, your character is stateless! an elf who puts her personal feelings before her homeland. someone who cannot, would rather see quelthalas die than accept that without the quelthalas horde he would have been lost or at least all ghostlands would be lost.
That is the difference between someone who puts the good of the nation first, and someone who puts their personal feelings first.
all lost someone the race is on the brink of extinction and quelthalas is destroyed, all are suffering but some prefer to stay to fight than to seek security in the alliance.

That's true. But, I think that's part of what's appealing too. Imperfection leads down some roads that are fun to explore.

In her defence, I would say that grief is a very powerful emotion that can affect people in very different ways. Especially if it turns into resentment.

Also, remember that Thrall wouldn't accept Quel'Thalas until it proved capable of helping itself. I would say though, that Quel'Thalas would have been lost without Sylvanas and her undead, rather than the wider Horde who simply weren't interested until Dar'Khan lay dead.

My blood elf hunter was a Sylvanas loyalist, even after Teldrassil, because, in his eyes, she died for Quel'Thalas and, even in death, continued to protect it (he probably wasn't aware of her confrontation with Lor'themar in In the Shadow of the Sun). I think he was probably one of her last living supporters who the ball only really dropped for when she let her mask fall in her duel with Saurfang. *ting ting*

She was willing to learn from Sylvanas why she ended up in the Horde, but Sylvanas messed up that reunion.

Timeline-wise, I think that reunion happens between the end of Legion and Nightborne recruitment scenario, which explains why Alleria is already devoted to the Alliance by the time she journeys to the Sunwell (as she offered Theron to rejoin the Alliance).

That's true. What a disappointing comic (story and art - especially art!). I had waited years and years to see that reunion but it, like all of BfA, kept pushing Sylvanas in a direction that I really wouldn't have taken her...

[Varodoc]

That's true. But, I think that's part of what's appealing too. Imperfection leads down some roads that are fun to explore.

In her defence, I would say that grief is a very powerful emotion that can affect people in very different ways. Especially if it turns into resentment.

Also, remember that Thrall wouldn't accept Quel'Thalas until it proved capable of helping itself. I would say though, that Quel'Thalas would have been lost without Sylvanas and her undead, rather than the wider Horde who simply weren't interested until Dar'Khan lay dead.

My blood elf hunter was a Sylvanas loyalist, even after Teldrassil, because, in his eyes, she died for Quel'Thalas and, even in death, continued to protect it (he probably wasn't aware of her confrontation with Lor'themar in In the Shadow of the Sun). I think he was probably one of her last living supporters who the ball only really dropped for when she let her mask fall in her duel with Saurfang. *ting ting*



That's true. What a disappointing comic (story and art - especially art!). I had waited years and years to see that reunion but it, like all of BfA, kept pushing Sylvanas in a direction that I really wouldn't have taken her...

I still hope that there will be a second reunion in the future. The Windrunners are a family seeped in tragedy. Sylvanas was turned into a monster, Alleria was thought lost for decades and was corrupted by the Void, Vereesa lost her husband and is left with two sons, and Lirath died so young...

It would be good if the Windrunners got a final, more joyous conclusion. What better time to do it, than in the expansion where Sylvanas dies?

[Thalassian Bob]

I still hope that there will be a second reunion in the future. The Windrunners are a family seeped in tragedy. Sylvanas was turned into a monster, Alleria was thought lost for decades and was corrupted by the Void, Vereesa lost her husband and is left with two sons, and Lirath died so young...

It would be good if the Windrunners got a final, more joyous conclusion. What better time to do it, than in the expansion where Sylvanas dies?

And oh what children is Vereesa left with...!



I'm not sure there can be a joyous reunion for them really. Not one with Sylvanas involved anyway. I can't see Blizz sending her off with dignity.

[Rhlor]

I still hope that there will be a second reunion in the future. The Windrunners are a family seeped in tragedy. Sylvanas was turned into a monster, Alleria was thought lost for decades and was corrupted by the Void, Vereesa lost her husband and is left with two sons, and Lirath died so young...

It would be good if the Windrunners got a final, more joyous conclusion. What better time to do it, than in the expansion where Sylvanas dies?

I want to see the blood mage sylvos windrunner

[Varodoc]

And oh what children is Vereesa left with...!
I'm not sure there can be a joyous reunion for them really. Not one with Sylvanas involved anyway. I can't see Blizz sending her off with dignity.

By that I mean that, after the Jailer has backstabbed her (which will obviously happen), Sylvanas will realize in her final moments that she was wrong. She will be sad, she will lament her path, yada yada yada, then Alleria and Vereesa will come out of nowhere and tell Sylvanas something like "at least we can say goodbye as sisters". Cue nostalgic music as Sylvanas passes out. This sounds cheesy and it is why it will happen.

The build-up is already there, because Alleria said she wants to be present at Sylvanas' fall:

We spent months searching every inch of Azeroth for any sign of Sylvanas, only to learn that my sister has crossed into the realm of the dead.

<Alleria's eyes narrow.>

How fitting.

Though I long to join the hunt for her, right now my place is here. The Alliance must rebuild its strength, and I will aid Turalyon in that effort.

But when the time comes, I will see Sylvanas answer for what she had done.

[Vaedan]

forest trolls

As long as blood elves are on the Horde, forest trolls should not be playable. They are their most hated enemies and both groups hates each other passionately. Forest trolls were butchering and skinning elves for years... Even Sylvanas said She hates them as much as Arthas, and that's something...

[Traveler Voltin]

As long as blood elves are on the Horde, forest trolls should not be playable. They are their most hated enemies and both groups hates each other passionately. Forest trolls were butchering and skinning elves for years... Even Sylvanas said She hates them as much as Arthas, and that's something...

the Amani tribe hates the elves. (and they are almost extinct so they need to get their crap together)

there is a Forest troll Tribe in the horde already.

[ravenmoon]

As long as blood elves are on the Horde, forest trolls should not be playable. They are their most hated enemies and both groups hates each other passionately. Forest trolls were butchering and skinning elves for years... Even Sylvanas said She hates them as much as Arthas, and that's something...

Well rather as long as blood elves control Quel'thalas and are numerous on the horde.


Should the majority of them return to the alliance as high elves along with the territory it will pave the way for the Amani collective, heart of the Forest trolls, who fit the horde a lot better, with Zul'aman replacing Silvermoon, and Zuk'drak replacing Suramar

[Ardenaso]

I want to see the blood mage sylvos windrunner

personal headcanon is that he's Zendarin's dad who was a member of the Convocation who also died defending Silvermoon