Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Vaedan]

He really doesn't get it.

And I don't get why he is so obsessed by Horde high elves, when it is obvious such individuals would be extremely rare, given Horde alligned elves take great pride in their way of life. Sure, it's cool to have a character with such backstory, but there is no need in denying this is just rare thing.

[Rhlor]

No, if you have blue eyes, you are still Void/blood elf and for your roleplaying purposes, you can pretend to be high elf if that suits backstory of your character. That is the point devs had regarding new customizations. They even admited not all these features are canon and they did not reflect actual lore being added to the game.

So, it's ok for your blood elf characters to be actually high elves, if you wish so, but that does not make any Blue eyed blood elf NPCs high elves, nor does it make neutral high elf characters Horde when they are on the Horde territory.

for developers if you use that customization you are a high elf. the high elves are playable now and I support green eyes for the void elves as well.

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Come on man, the eye color doesn't define whether they are a Blood or High Elf, stop being dishonest. You don't magically change your cultural identity because of your eye color FFS.

It's just... dumb.

High and Blood are self denominational labels, Blood Elves named themselves as such BEFORE getting green eyes FFS.

cultural identity? the high elves and blood elves have the same culture are the same people as before the invasion of the scourge. There are high elves loyal to the alliance and the horde
and there are blood elves who are loyal to the alliance and the horde.

Or the silvermoon scholar because now they are alliance they magically changed their culture? no, they are the same people as before, they just switched sides

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

cultural identity? the high elves and blood elves have the same culture are the same people as before the invasion of the scourge.

This makes me *this* close to want to throw everything you are saying into the garbage disposal. You literally think they just changed their name but their culture was unaffected? Don't you remember THE LENGHTS the blood elves went through survive after the decimation? I'm sorry but anyone that doesn't respect the crucible that forged Blood Elf identity is not a real Blood Elf fan, and I am TIRED of pretending otherwise.

There are high elves loyal to the alliance and the horde

and there are blood elves who are loyal to the alliance and the horde.

YES, exactly the point! but that doesn't mean that every horde elf with blue eyes identifies themselves as a High Elf, specially when their renaming was so important from an ideological perspective.

The whole point is that Blood Elves and High Elves are defined by THEIR POLITICS, not for how they look, and you come here to double down on the reductionist argument that eye color alone determines what they are rather than their ideologies? Come on!

Or the silvermoon scholar because now they are alliance they magically changed their culture? no, they are the same people as before, they just switched sides

No, the singular BE scholars that moved to Telogrus didn't change their culture.

The Group of elves, that changed their name in honor of the 90% of their race dying on an invasion that destroyed their homeland and cut their source of power, and took up a survivalist mindset just to not die out, to the point they starting using fel magics to power their cities and siphon a Naaru to wield the light DID have a PROFOUND cultural shift. Are you blind?

And not because they walked back from their darker edge it means their cultural trauma is ERASED.

For real, the lack of respect you are showing towards the BE's struggle makes me doubt every argument you give. You don't seem to even care about Blood Elves.

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And I don't get why he is so obsessed by Horde high elves, when it is obvious such individuals would be extremely rare, given Horde alligned elves take great pride in their way of life. Sure, it's cool to have a character with such backstory, but there is no need in denying this is just rare thing.

Honestly to me he's coming across as the sort of person that doesn't care about Blood Elves, and only wants "High Elves to be great again" as if the Third War never happened.

Cause all he's saying seems to be in order to minimize what being a Blood Elf is culturally, trying to sweep it under the rug for a "High Elves are as have always been" traditionalist view.

And I really hate that.

[Rhlor]

This makes me *this* close to want to throw everything you are saying into the garbage disposal. You literally think they just changed their name but their culture was unaffected? Don't you remember THE LENGHTS the blood elves went through survive after the decimation? I'm sorry but anyone that doesn't respect the crucible that forged Blood Elf identity is not a real Blood Elf fan, and I am TIRED of pretending otherwise.




YES, exactly the point! but that doesn't mean that every horde elf with blue eyes identifies themselves as a High Elf, specially when their renaming was so important from an ideological perspective.

The whole point is that Blood Elves and High Elves are defined by THEIR POLITICS, not for how they look, and you come here to double down on the reductionist argument that eye color alone determines what they are rather than their ideologies? Come on!




No, the singular BE scholars that moved to Telogrus didn't change their culture.

The Group of elves, that changed their name in honor of the 90% of their race dying on an invasion that destroyed their homeland and cut their source of power, and took up a survivalist mindset just to not die out, to the point they starting using fel magics to power their cities and siphon a Naaru to wield the light DID have a PROFOUND cultural shift. Are you blind?

And not because they walked back from their darker edge it means their cultural trauma is ERASED.

For real, the lack of respect you are showing towards the BE's struggle makes me doubt every argument you give. You don't seem to even care about Blood Elves.

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Honestly to me he's coming across as the sort of person that doesn't care about Blood Elves, and only wants "High Elves to be great again" as if the Third War never happened.

Cause all he's saying seems to be in order to minimize what being a Blood Elf is culturally, trying to sweep it under the rug for a "High Elves are as have always been" traditionalist view.

And I really hate that.

do you understand what culture is? The culture of a nation is a set of cultural elements that the members of that nation share such as language, art, architecture, religion, etc.

did the thalassian in the alliance stop speaking thalassian? or did they stop worshiping belore?

what you misunderstand by culture is actually idiology.

and to clarify matters only the magisters used fel to rebuild cities and the people in general in quelthalas never used fel. The light extracted from Muru was only done by the Blood Knights, it was not something that everyone did. and after the sunwell recovered everything returned to normal, the magisters exchanged fel crystals for mana crystals and blood knights now worship the light.

[elbleuet]

do you understand what culture is? The culture of a nation is a set of cultural elements that the members of that nation share such as language, art, architecture, religion, etc.

did the thalassian in the alliance stop speaking thalassian? or did they stop worshiping belore?

what you misunderstand by culture is actually idiology.

and to clarify matters only the magisters used fel to rebuild cities and the people in general in quelthalas never used fel. The light extracted from Muru was only done by the Blood Knights, it was not something that everyone did. and after the sunwell recovered everything returned to normal, the magisters exchanged fel crystals for mana crystals and blood knights now worship the light.

Your blood elves don't identify themselves as high elves. But Alliance High elves do

[Combatbutler]

Your blood elves don't identify themselves as high elves. But Alliance High elves do

They took the name to honor the slaughtered of the scourge invasion, the high elves don't honor the dead as much, that is pretty much the only cultural divergence at this point.

Otherwise, all heavily value their homeland, have the same art, architecture, history, language and see the sunwell as a holy site.

[Vaedan]

do you understand what culture is? The culture of a nation is a set of cultural elements that the members of that nation share such as language, art, architecture, religion, etc.

did the thalassian in the alliance stop speaking thalassian? or did they stop worshiping belore?

what you misunderstand by culture is actually idiology.

and to clarify matters only the magisters used fel to rebuild cities and the people in general in quelthalas never used fel. The light extracted from Muru was only done by the Blood Knights, it was not something that everyone did. and after the sunwell recovered everything returned to normal, the magisters exchanged fel crystals for mana crystals and blood knights now worship the light.

Well, let me correct you. Ideology is also one of the important part which forms a nation. You can't dismiss it. Sure, blood elves and high elves speak thalassian, but blood elves had to go through cultural shift they believed is necessary. High elves did not want to go such lengths and were ostracized and exiled. You need to understand this.
Even later, when Lor'themar approached high elves of Quel'lithien, they refused to rejoin blood elves. The rift went too far. Majority of high elves would not be willing to rejoin sin'dorei. Majority of sin'dorei view high elves as traitors.

[elbleuet]

They took the name to honor the slaughtered of the scourge invasion, the high elves don't honor the dead as much, that is pretty much the only cultural divergence at this point.

Otherwise, all heavily value their homeland, have the same art, architecture, history, language and see the sunwell as a holy site.

Ofc they're the same. High and Blood elves = thalassian elves.

But stop calling a blood elf High elf whereas he doesn't consider himself as such.

[Rhlor]

Your blood elves don't identify themselves as high elves. But Alliance High elves do

error high elves are playable in the horde devs says this

[Combatbutler]

Well, let me correct you. Ideology is also one of the important part which forms a nation. You can't dismiss it. Sure, blood elves and high elves speak thalassian, but blood elves had to go through cultural shift they believed is necessary. High elves did not want to go such lengths and were ostracized and exiled. You need to understand this.
Even later, when Lor'themar approached high elves of Quel'lithien, they refused to rejoin blood elves. The rift went too far. Majority of high elves would not be willing to rejoin sin'dorei. Majority of sin'dorei view high elves as traitors.

High elves stooped to similar levels eventually, some of them stole artifacts to drain mana, some use fel magic and other embraced the void , the distinction of high elves shunning corruptive magic no longer exists and any moral highground they might have had went with it.

Especially those in Quel'lithien, who pretty much all became wretched, because they overdosed on an artifact.

[Rhlor]

Well, let me correct you. Ideology is also one of the important part which forms a nation. You can't dismiss it. Sure, blood elves and high elves speak thalassian, but blood elves had to go through cultural shift they believed is necessary. High elves did not want to go such lengths and were ostracized and exiled. You need to understand this.
Even later, when Lor'themar approached high elves of Quel'lithien, they refused to rejoin blood elves. The rift went too far. Majority of high elves would not be willing to rejoin sin'dorei. Majority of sin'dorei view high elves as traitors.

Do you mean that Republicans and Democrats do not belong to the American nation? that belong to the republican nation and the democrats nation? Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds?

[Vaedan]

High elves stooped to similar levels eventually, some of them stole artifacts to drain mana, some use fel magic and other embraced the void , the distinction of high elves shunning corruptive magic no longer exists and any moral highground they might have had went with it.

I'm not saying high elves are/were pure. They made their choices which ultimately alienated them from sin'dorei and both groups do not trust each other.

Do you mean that Republicans and Democrats do not belong to the American nation? that belong to the republican nation and the democrats nation? Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds?

Pretty bad example actually. Republicans and democrats are both legitimate citizens of their country. Blood elves and high elves are not in the same position. At some point, blood elves had to transform their society in order to survive and high elves did not want to do so, so they were exiled. If you look at better example, look at the Republic of China. Once a communist party took control over the country, they made changes which suited their agenda. There were people who disagreed, so they were imprisoned, executed. For these reasons, people in opposition to the official regime fled the country and formed communities which held values before communists came. That does make sense to you?

Also, another example, Makedonia and Greece. Both are countries of same history, but they both identify differently. Another example, Czech republic and Slovakia. Countries which coexisted together for years, their languages are nearly identical, yet they defined each other diferently. And the list goes on and on.

[Rhlor]

Well, let me correct you. Ideology is also one of the important part which forms a nation. You can't dismiss it. Sure, blood elves and high elves speak thalassian, but blood elves had to go through cultural shift they believed is necessary. High elves did not want to go such lengths and were ostracized and exiled. You need to understand this.
Even later, when Lor'themar approached high elves of Quel'lithien, they refused to rejoin blood elves. The rift went too far. Majority of high elves would not be willing to rejoin sin'dorei. Majority of sin'dorei view high elves as traitors.

re-read the short story they were upset that the lorthemar made quelthalas join the horde. they are very angry because nathanos (that moment member of the horde) was attacking them.
But whatever happened to them, they used a corrupted source of magic and became wretched. the few survivors are now not hostile to the horde

[Combatbutler]

I'm not saying high elves are/were pure. They made their choices which ultimately alienated them from sin'dorei and both groups do not trust each other.

Some sure, but most certainly not all. Especially those not alligned with the Alliance, might decide to go back home at any time and Lor'themar has yet to outright refuse your average high elf, since he wants unification.

[Rhlor]

I'm not saying high elves are/were pure. They made their choices which ultimately alienated them from sin'dorei and both groups do not trust each other.



Pretty bad example actually. Republicans and democrats are both legitimate citizens of their country. Blood elves and high elves are not in the same position. At some point, blood elves had to transform their society in order to survive and high elves did not want to do so, so they were exiled. If you look at better example, look at the Republic of China. Once a communist party took control over the country, they made changes which suited their agenda. There were people who disagreed, so they were imprisoned, executed. For these reasons, people in opposition to the official regime fled the country and formed communities which held values before communists came. That does make sense to you?

Also, another example, Makedonia and Greece. Both are countries of same history, but they both identify differently. Another example, Czech republic and Slovakia. Countries which coexisted together for years, their languages are nearly identical, yet they defined each other diferently. And the list goes on and on.

the current quel'thalas is the same as the quelthalas before the invasion. no cultural change

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

do you understand what culture is? The culture of a nation is a set of cultural elements that the members of that nation share such as language, art, architecture, religion, etc.

did the thalassian in the alliance stop speaking thalassian? or did they stop worshiping belore?

what you misunderstand by culture is actually idiology.

and to clarify matters only the magisters used fel to rebuild cities and the people in general in quelthalas never used fel. The light extracted from Muru was only done by the Blood Knights, it was not something that everyone did. and after the sunwell recovered everything returned to normal, the magisters exchanged fel crystals for mana crystals and blood knights now worship the light.

If you are going to make the argument that ideology has nothing to do, or affects culture, then there's not much to discuss. You are not even consistent at separating just the aesthetics because you include religion, but not ideology?

More so even if the change is "only ideological", that doesn't change the fact that blue eyed blood elves would exist still, because all they have to do is to identify with that ideology, even if by your "definition" is not culture *facepalm*

They took the name to honor the slaughtered of the scourge invasion, the high elves don't honor the dead as much, that is pretty much the only cultural divergence at this point.

Otherwise, all heavily value their homeland, have the same art, architecture, history, language and see the sunwell as a holy site.

It's like you are unable to understand that cultures change and evolve.

Blood Elves markedly changed a lot of their values to survive; to see them just as the High Elves they used to be before the third war, denies them of their strife and growth.

I STG that I don't understand where this nonsense traditionalism for high elves comes from; the whole point is that BE's had to adapt to survive (and even when Modern HE's kept the name, they also thoroughly changed)

[Rhlor]

If you are going to make the argument that ideology has nothing to do, or affects culture, then there's not much to discuss. You are not even consistent at separating just the aesthetics because you include religion, but not ideology?

More so even if the change is "only ideological", that doesn't change the fact that blue eyed blood elves would exist still, because all they have to do is to identify with that ideology, even if by your "definition" is not culture *facepalm*



It's like you are unable to understand that cultures change and evolve.

Blood Elves markedly changed a lot of their values to survive; to see them just as the High Elves they used to be before the third war, denies them of their strife and growth.

I STG that I don't understand where this nonsense traditionalism for high elves comes from; the whole point is that BE's had to adapt to survive (and even when Modern HE's kept the name, they also thoroughly changed)

there was a terrible crisis years ago but now things are back to normal with the sunwell restored. there is no cultural difference between the pre-invasion quelthalas and the current quelthalas. there is a political difference which is that quelthalas joined the horde.
their fight is not denied, the patriots of quelthalas won they saved their kingdom! and as they are patriots that if necessary they will kill their own prince because he is loyal to the legion and to his followers they do it for the sake of quelthalas.
you don't understand blood elves they love quelthalas so much that restoring quelthalas to what it was before the invasion is the greatest achievement and honor for the blood elves that they can go back to living as they did before the invasion is proof of their triumph

[Ardenaso]

I've come to terms that there's nothing wrong with Blood Elves naming themselves as High Elves, as long as it's not Silver Covenant nor Highvale

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

there was a terrible crisis years ago but now things are back to normal

Lol okay.

there is no cultural difference between the pre-invasion quelthalas and the current quelthalas.

Sure Jan, because a nationwide trauma that almost wiped them out doesn't affect the values of a culture at all. JFC how do you even miss how the elves went from traditionalist and methodical, set on their ways, isolationists; to progressively seeking new forms of magic, redefining themselves through their means of survival, even their new worship of the light is completely new to what existed before the fall, leaving behind their isolationism.

you don't understand blood elves they love quelthalas so much that restoring quelthalas to what it was before the invasion is the greatest achievement and honor for the blood elves that they can go back to living as they did before the invasion is proof of their triumph

I really, honestly loathe this traditionalist view of Blood Elves when THEIR WHOLE THING is about adapting to survive. As if doing that didn't change them forever, as if they didn't grow as a people in ways they hadn't for centuries.

It's for real a shame that someone takes the Blood Elves, the exemplar of what means to move forward and reinvent yourself, and claim to love them while holding regressive traditionalist views that go in complete opposite of what the Blood Elves have become.

You don't like Blood Elves, you just like pre third war High Elves and what them to go back to that.

You might as well become the High Elf version of Ravenmoon or Mace FFS

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I've come to terms that there's nothing wrong with Blood Elves naming themselves as High Elves, as long as it's not Silver Covenant nor Highvale

Sure, I do agree with that. But we have yet to see a single Blood Elf referring to themselves as a High Elf in canon. The reason why the changed their name holds meaning, and I hate how people try to erase it in order to pretend they haven't changed at all.

[Rhlor]

Lol okay.



Sure Jan, because a nationwide trauma that almost wiped them out doesn't affect the values of a culture at all. JFC how do you even miss how the elves went from traditionalist and methodical, set on their ways, isolationists; to progressively seeking new forms of magic, redefining themselves through their means of survival, even their new worship of the light is completely new to what existed before the fall, leaving behind their isolationism.



I really, honestly loathe this traditionalist view of Blood Elves when THEIR WHOLE THING is about adapting to survive. As if doing that didn't change them forever, as if they didn't grow as a people in ways they hadn't for centuries.

It's for real a shame that someone takes the Blood Elves, the exemplar of what means to move forward and reinvent yourself, and claim to love them while holding regressive traditionalist views that go in complete opposite of what the Blood Elves have become.

You don't like Blood Elves, you just like pre third war High Elves and what them to go back to that.

You might as well become the High Elf version of Ravenmoon or Mace FFS

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Sure, I do agree with that. But we have yet to see a single Blood Elf referring to themselves as a High Elf in canon. The reason why the changed their name holds meaning, and I hate how people try to erase it in order to pretend they haven't changed at all.

You are totally wrong I love the blood elves and I love their characters I love liadrin, lorthemar (the best racial leader of the horde), I love rommath (he is great) and halduron.

ever read blood of the highborne? faith in the light has always existed in quelthalas high priest Vandellor (liadrin's father) was one of the most important people in quelthalas. Liadrin now as a worshiper of light simply went back to who she was.

it is true that the government of quel'thalas takes the necessary measures to protect quelthalas. like being part of the horde and looking for new powers that can be useful as the reliquary does.
but that does not change that life in quelthalas is returning to normal that people are recovering their lives as they were before the invasion that things are going back to the way they were.
and it is obvious that quelthalas will keep their traditions alive and their lifestyle is why they fought so hard to save their kingdom and all that it is.