Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ardenaso]

Lol okay.



Sure Jan, because a nationwide trauma that almost wiped them out doesn't affect the values of a culture at all. JFC how do you even miss how the elves went from traditionalist and methodical, set on their ways, isolationists; to progressively seeking new forms of magic, redefining themselves through their means of survival, even their new worship of the light is completely new to what existed before the fall, leaving behind their isolationism.



I really, honestly loathe this traditionalist view of Blood Elves when THEIR WHOLE THING is about adapting to survive. As if doing that didn't change them forever, as if they didn't grow as a people in ways they hadn't for centuries.

It's for real a shame that someone takes the Blood Elves, the exemplar of what means to move forward and reinvent yourself, and claim to love them while holding regressive traditionalist views that go in complete opposite of what the Blood Elves have become.

You don't like Blood Elves, you just like pre third war High Elves and what them to go back to that.

You might as well become the High Elf version of Ravenmoon or Mace FFS

to be fair I actually see nothing wrong with Rhlor's narrative, it's not like he wants to take away a huge/major Alliance team and bring it to the Horde

[FossilFree]

to be fair I actually see nothing wrong with Rhlor's narrative, it's not like he wants to take away a huge/major Alliance team and bring it to the Horde

I actually think they should do that. Alteraci humans would be really cool!

[Vaedan]

You are totally wrong I love the blood elves and I love their characters I love liadrin, lorthemar (the best racial leader of the horde), I love rommath (he is great) and halduron.

ever read blood of the highborne? faith in the light has always existed in quelthalas high priest Vandellor (liadrin's father) was one of the most important people in quelthalas. Liadrin now as a worshiper of light simply went back to who she was.

it is true that the government of quel'thalas takes the necessary measures to protect quelthalas. like being part of the horde and looking for new powers that can be useful as the reliquary does.
but that does not change that life in quelthalas is returning to normal that people are recovering their lives as they were before the invasion that things are going back to the way they were.
and it is obvious that quelthalas will keep their traditions alive and their lifestyle is why they fought so hard to save their kingdom and all that it is.

Fate in the Light existed, but was not as important as today. You misinterpret Vandellor's importance. He was foster father of Liadrin, so he was important for her, but claiming he was one of the most important people in Quel'thalas is a stretch. He is not even confirmed to be part of Convocation of Silvermoon.

Blood elves today wants to go to the direction they were pre-Third War, but there are things that changed forever. It will never be the same. Don't forget that use of Fel is still evident in Silvermoon, as was mentioned by Mathias Shaw in the Eastern Kingdoms book. Also blood knights and paladins are now important part of the society, which were almost non existent pre-Third War.

I've come to terms that there's nothing wrong with Blood Elves naming themselves as High Elves, as long as it's not Silver Covenant nor Highvale

He certainly has a thing for Auric Sunchaser and other Allerian elves, who were the ones who denied their king in the past, left their homeland with Alleria to help the Alliance fight of the Horde.

In order for blood elves to get back to pre-Third War state, they would need to:

- Crown a king of noble bloodline.
- Leave Horde, isolate themselves and care only about their own affairs
- Abandon blood knight/paladin and warlock training, since such practises were not common among Quel'dorei and only handful individuals delved into.
- Kill all orcs and trolls on sight for attacking Quel'thalas in the past

[Ardenaso]

He certainly has a thing for Auric Sunchaser and other Allerian elves, who were the ones who denied their king in the past, left their homeland with Alleria to help the Alliance fight of the Horde.

to be fair that's the closest thing we can get for non-SC High Elves for the Horde; and I believe at least some of the Allerians can return to Silvermoon after Kael'thas' treachery was exposed and he was defeated

[Combatbutler]

It's like you are unable to understand that cultures change and evolve.

Blood Elves markedly changed a lot of their values to survive; to see them just as the High Elves they used to be before the third war, denies them of their strife and growth.

I STG that I don't understand where this nonsense traditionalism for high elves comes from; the whole point is that BE's had to adapt to survive (and even when Modern HE's kept the name, they also thoroughly changed)

Sorry but your point lacks any kind of depth, choosing to ensure the survival of ones people is not really a cultural trait

Tell me what is a genuine cultural difference between a high elf and a blood elf, something that truly sets them apart, just because high elves chose to be the equivalent of anti vaxxers does not mean there is a great cultural divide.

Being more pragmatic, is most certainly not a big cultural difference, especially if we consider the high elves did it out of moral reasons and later embracing similar methods and embracing the void thus rendering the whole thing utterly moot.

[Vaedan]

to be fair that's the closest thing we can get for non-SC High Elves for the Horde; and I believe at least some of the Allerians can return to Silvermoon after Kael'thas' treachery was exposed and he was defeated

Probably, but most them expressed distaste of what blood elves become (TBC Timeline). These elves were strongly anti-Horde, they left their homeland after orcs, ogres and trolls burned Eversong. I tend to believe it's more likely for them to rejoin Alleria. They are her former squad, after all.

[elbleuet]

re-read the short story they were upset that the lorthemar made quelthalas join the horde. they are very angry because nathanos (that moment member of the horde) was attacking them.
But whatever happened to them, they used a corrupted source of magic and became wretched. the few survivors are now not hostile to the horde

Gameplay reasons.

The entire zone was made neutral back in Cataclysm and Quel'Lithien was an Alliance zone, so Blizzard had to find an excuse to make them neutral/hostile to everyone.

That's why he's neutral to you even if your faction sacked his homeland and killed any High elf it could back in Vanilla.

On the other side, Quel'Danil, is still an Alliance territory, and your "Blue-eyed high elf of da Horde" is killed at sight by... high elves living there.

[Rhlor]

Fate in the Light existed, but was not as important as today. You misinterpret Vandellor's importance. He was foster father of Liadrin, so he was important for her, but claiming he was one of the most important people in Quel'thalas is a stretch. He is not even confirmed to be part of Convocation of Silvermoon.

Blood elves today wants to go to the direction they were pre-Third War, but there are things that changed forever. It will never be the same. Don't forget that use of Fel is still evident in Silvermoon, as was mentioned by Mathias Shaw in the Eastern Kingdoms book. Also blood knights and paladins are now important part of the society, which were almost non existent pre-Third War.



He certainly has a thing for Auric Sunchaser and other Allerian elves, who were the ones who denied their king in the past, left their homeland with Alleria to help the Alliance fight of the Horde.

In order for blood elves to get back to pre-Third War state, they would need to:

- Crown a king of noble bloodline.
- Leave Horde, isolate themselves and care only about their own affairs
- Abandon blood knight/paladin and warlock training, since such practises were not common among Quel'dorei and only handful individuals delved into.
- Kill all orcs and trolls on sight for attacking Quel'thalas in the past

Mehlar was a paladin befor the invasion.
Blood elves kill the trolls that they kill all time the amani

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

to be fair I actually see nothing wrong with Rhlor's narrative, it's not like he wants to take away a huge/major Alliance team and bring it to the Horde

What's the alliance have to do with any of this tho? My issues are about the dismissal of what the Blood Elves have gone through and how they were changed, I really can't respect that sort of opinion; I would actually be more understanding if he actually wanted all the high elves to return to Quel'thalas. I just loathe that people that claim to love Blood Elves would strip them bare of their identity.

You are totally wrong I love the blood elves and I love their characters I love liadrin, lorthemar (the best racial leader of the horde), I love rommath (he is great) and halduron.

ever read blood of the highborne? faith in the light has always existed in quelthalas high priest Vandellor (liadrin's father) was one of the most important people in quelthalas. Liadrin now as a worshiper of light simply went back to who she was.

it is true that the government of quel'thalas takes the necessary measures to protect quelthalas. like being part of the horde and looking for new powers that can be useful as the reliquary does.
but that does not change that life in quelthalas is returning to normal that people are recovering their lives as they were before the invasion that things are going back to the way they were.
and it is obvious that quelthalas will keep their traditions alive and their lifestyle is why they fought so hard to save their kingdom and all that it is.

Honestly the kindest, and at the same time most pretentious, thing I can say is that you don't get Blood Elves. It actually bothers me when people that claim to like them completely invalidate their racial identity.

-Holy Light Worship wasn't a cornerstone of High Elves culture as it is of Blood Elves culture; for one, the freaking Sunwell didn't use to be made half of light. Blood Elves now have a major militant branch of holy, zealous warriors that didn't exist before the Third War. Like come on dude, the cultural shifts literally are part of the gameplay and the lore and you simply dismiss them because "Blood Elves are just like how High Elves used to be" FFS

-You keep assuming that "things are going back to normal" as if rebuilding MEANS going back to the way thinsg were instead of finding a new normal. Seeing how literally so many aspects of Thalassian culture have changed, it's nonsense to pretend the new normal is the same than the old one.

-You seem to have no idea what it means for a people to evolve culturally.

[Rhlor]

to be fair that's the closest thing we can get for non-SC High Elves for the Horde; and I believe at least some of the Allerians can return to Silvermoon after Kael'thas' treachery was exposed and he was defeated

Theloria dreamt the back quelthalas.
Roseleth want to help the blood elves and she return azeroth
Auric says that all are childrens of silvermoon.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Sorry but your point lacks any kind of depth, choosing to ensure the survival of ones people is not really a cultural trait

As if it weren't utterly shortsighted to claim that a whole civilization changing their morals in order to survive -adapt- wouldn't have any sort of long lasting and even permanent effects in their culture.

We literally see how Fel continues to be openly practiced, we see how the light rose in prominence, we see how they abandoned their isolation tendencies, and somehow those aren't major cultural shifts?

Tell me what is a genuine cultural difference between a high elf and a blood elf, something that truly sets them apart, just because high elves chose to be the equivalent of anti vaxxers does not mean there is a great cultural divide.

High elves aren't shown to be nearly as zealous in the ways of the light as the blood knights are; the only HE group described as light worshiping, and anti magic, are the Highvale, in a very woodsy way.

High Elves don't practice fel magic as openly as blood elves.

Highvale elves literally shun magic.

High Elves have begun to assimilate into humanity. Elisande literally calls them out as peasants that dilute their bloodline.

Yet all of this misses the point; it's not about how different they are, but about how their differences have set them apart in a course that will keep moving them farther and farther away as a people. For all the cultural shifts BE's have went, the modern High Elves have moved even further away with their assimilation into humanity.

The WHOLE POINT is that neither of them is a true reflection of Pre Third War High Elves, they have both moved into different paths, they both have had major cultural shifts. But Noooo, there's no great cultural divide.

Being more pragmatic, is most certainly not a big cultural difference, especially if we consider the high elves did it out of moral reasons and later embracing similar methods and embracing the void thus rendering the whole thing utterly moot.

Ah, the void, which is completely anathema to Blood Elf culture that has double down on light worship because the Sunwell is now made of light. How the hell can't you see as yet another obvious bifurcation between the both of them is beyond me.

- - - Updated - - -

Theloria dreamt the back quelthalas.
Roseleth want to help the blood elves and she return azeroth
Auric says that all are childrens of silvermoon.

Theloria shows disgust for the choices the BE's made, Ros'eleth wants to help fix theiur addiction. How do any of those read to you "Yes, I will gladly rejoin the Blood Elves"

Auric is literally a neutral representative for all elfdom, his whole point is that he wants equal access for all elves, regardless of faction allegiance.

And you claim he would join the Horde *facepalm*

[Combatbutler]

As if it weren't utterly shortsighted to claim that a whole civilization changing their morals in order to survive -adapt- wouldn't have any sort of long lasting and even permanent effects in their culture.

So far there is nothing to indicate it, they are pretty much the same as they were before.

We literally see how Fel continues to be openly practiced, we see how the light rose in prominence, we see how they abandoned their isolation tendencies, and somehow those aren't major cultural shifts?

These are all things high elves do as well.

High elves aren't shown to be nearly as zealous in the ways of the light as the blood knights are; the only HE group described as light worshiping, and anti magic, are the Highvale, in a very woodsy way.

That is not big enough of a distinction, people of the same culture can even have entirely different religions and would still be counted among that cultural group

High Elves don't practice fel magic as openly as blood elves.

They still practice it

Highvale elves literally shun magic.

Most high elves don't

High Elves have begun to assimilate into humanity. Elisande literally calls them out as peasants that dilute their bloodline.

What you bang rarely defines ones culture, intermingling isn't taboo among the blood elves.

Yet all of this misses the point; it's not about how different they are, but about how their differences have set them apart in a course that will keep moving them farther and farther away as a people. For all the cultural shifts BE's have went, the modern High Elves have moved even further away with their assimilation into humanity.

What sets them apart is minuscule, the high elves have yet to display anything that would show a different culture.

The WHOLE POINT is that neither of them is a true reflection of Pre Third War High Elves, they have both moved into different paths, they both have had major cultural shifts. But Noooo, there's no great cultural divide.

The night elf empire banning arcane the core of their culture was a big cultural shift, what the thalassians have done has ultimately barely changed the core aspects of their culture.

Ah, the void, which is completely anathema to Blood Elf culture that has double down on light worship because the Sunwell is now made of light. How the hell can't you see as yet another obvious bifurcation between the both of them is beyond me.

And still the void elves revere the sunwell as a holy site.

[Vaedan]

Mehlar was a paladin befor the invasion.
Blood elves kill the trolls that they kill all time the amani

Mehlar is the only known high elf paladin. Quel'dorei did not have any paladin organisation. That was created by Liadrin by the time they were already blood elves.

There are number of elves who like to kill trolls. Any kind of trolls, even after they joined Horde... Because trolls were notorious for killing elves for centuries.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Paelarin

[Rhlor]

What's the alliance have to do with any of this tho? My issues are about the dismissal of what the Blood Elves have gone through and how they were changed, I really can't respect that sort of opinion; I would actually be more understanding if he actually wanted all the high elves to return to Quel'thalas. I just loathe that people that claim to love Blood Elves would strip them bare of their identity.



Honestly the kindest, and at the same time most pretentious, thing I can say is that you don't get Blood Elves. It actually bothers me when people that claim to like them completely invalidate their racial identity.

-Holy Light Worship wasn't a cornerstone of High Elves culture as it is of Blood Elves culture; for one, the freaking Sunwell didn't use to be made half of light. Blood Elves now have a major militant branch of holy, zealous warriors that didn't exist before the Third War. Like come on dude, the cultural shifts literally are part of the gameplay and the lore and you simply dismiss them because "Blood Elves are just like how High Elves used to be" FFS

-You keep assuming that "things are going back to normal" as if rebuilding MEANS going back to the way thinsg were instead of finding a new normal. Seeing how literally so many aspects of Thalassian culture have changed, it's nonsense to pretend the new normal is the same than the old one.

-You seem to have no idea what it means for a people to evolve culturally.

For me the identity of what it means to be a blood elf is to be a patriot, who fights desperately to save his country from dstruction and that he is willing give his life to save his homeland

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

So far there is nothing to indicate it, they are pretty much the same as they were before.



These are all things high elves do as well.





That is not big enough of a distinction, people of the same culture can even have entirely different religions and would still be counted among that cultural group



They still practice it



Most high elves don't



What you bang rarely defines ones culture, intermingling isn't taboo among the blood elves.



What sets them apart is minuscule, the high elves have yet to display anything that would show a different culture.



The night elf empire banning arcane the core of their culture was a big cultural shift, what the thalassians have done has ultimately barely changed the core aspects of their culture.




And still the void elves revere the sunwell as a holy site.

Honestly the fact that you don't see the huge red flag of Elisande treating the Blood Elves and High Elves so differently as anything major or of note is just hilarious by itself.

Like yeah you can misread everything to deny there's a notorious cultural shift -because surprise, even living in separate communities leads to compounding cultural shifts, like the Highvale you so glibly dismissed-

And that's the thing, if you keep dismissing the facts because you don't like them, so, eh? Can't do much really. If the fact that Blood Elves and High Eves keep obviously diverging is something you cannot see, then it's literally not on me.

[Rhlor]

As if it weren't utterly shortsighted to claim that a whole civilization changing their morals in order to survive -adapt- wouldn't have any sort of long lasting and even permanent effects in their culture.

We literally see how Fel continues to be openly practiced, we see how the light rose in prominence, we see how they abandoned their isolation tendencies, and somehow those aren't major cultural shifts?



High elves aren't shown to be nearly as zealous in the ways of the light as the blood knights are; the only HE group described as light worshiping, and anti magic, are the Highvale, in a very woodsy way.

High Elves don't practice fel magic as openly as blood elves.

Highvale elves literally shun magic.

High Elves have begun to assimilate into humanity. Elisande literally calls them out as peasants that dilute their bloodline.

Yet all of this misses the point; it's not about how different they are, but about how their differences have set them apart in a course that will keep moving them farther and farther away as a people. For all the cultural shifts BE's have went, the modern High Elves have moved even further away with their assimilation into humanity.

The WHOLE POINT is that neither of them is a true reflection of Pre Third War High Elves, they have both moved into different paths, they both have had major cultural shifts. But Noooo, there's no great cultural divide.



Ah, the void, which is completely anathema to Blood Elf culture that has double down on light worship because the Sunwell is now made of light. How the hell can't you see as yet another obvious bifurcation between the both of them is beyond me.

- - - Updated - - -



Theloria shows disgust for the choices the BE's made, Ros'eleth wants to help fix theiur addiction. How do any of those read to you "Yes, I will gladly rejoin the Blood Elves"

Auric is literally a neutral representative for all elfdom, his whole point is that he wants equal access for all elves, regardless of faction allegiance.

And you claim he would join the Horde *facepalm*

Theloria shows sadness because she think all blood elves are followers of kael, but the blood elvez of quelthalas the home that she wanted back fight against kael.
Auric also says they must be united to avenge the destruction of sunwell and quelthalas

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

For me the ifentity of what it means to be a blood elf is to be a patriot, who fights desperately to save his country from dstruction and that he is willing give his life to save his homeland.

It's like you are THIS close to getting it, but you know you won't.

"Wow, I wonder if the lengths we are going to protect certain values and our security won't deeply change other aspects of our way of living on the long run"

- - - Updated - - -

Theloria shows sadness because she think all blood elves are followers of kael, but the blood elvez of quelthalas the home that she wanted back fight against kael.
Auric also says they must be united to avenge the destruction of sunwell and quelthalas

How EITHER of those things mean they are willing and happy to rejoin the Blood Elves? Alleria herself wants those things, Vereesa too, and neither of them want to join the BE's and the Horde FFS!!

How the hell do you reconcile the idea that "Blood Elves are just like High Elves were" with the fact that other High Elves, in universe, see their actions as so anathema they are unwilling to re-join them? HOW?!?!

I guess your answer would be "those High Elves changed" lol

[Rhlor]

It's like you are THIS close to getting it, but you know you won't.

"Wow, I wonder if the lengths we are going to protect certain values and our security won't deeply change other aspects of our way of living on the long run"

- - - Updated - - -



How EITHER of those things mean they are willing and happy to rejoin the Blood Elves? Alleria herself wants those things, Vereesa too, and neither of them want to join the BE's and the Horde FFS!!

How the hell do you reconcile the idea that "Blood Elves are just like High Elves were" with the fact that other High Elves, in universe, see their actions as so anathema they are unwilling to re-join them? HOW?!?!

I guess your answer would be "those High Elves changed" lol

actualy yes and And you agree

.

High Elves have begun to assimilate into humanity. Elisande literally calls them out as peasants that dilute their bloodline.

Yet all of this misses the point; it's not about how different they are, but about how their differences have set them apart in a course that will keep moving them farther and farther away as a people. For all the cultural shifts BE's have went, the modern High Elves have moved even further away with their assimilation into humanity.

It is as you say with time the high elves of the alliance will have a cultural change.
the blood elves are the ones who maintain the traditions and racial identity of the high elves before the invasion

[elbleuet]

actualy yes and And you agree



It is as you say with time the high elves of the alliance will have a cultural change.
the blood elves are the ones who maintain the traditions and racial identity of the high elves before the invasion

Both groups maintain their traditions since the end of TBC.

[Rhlor]

Both groups maintain their traditions since the end of TBC.

So I say with the passage of time.