Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Roxxy View Post
    I loved World of Warcraft all through WOTLK, Cata, Pandaria and WOD and I never thought I would find it annoying or frustrating. Sadly, this happened with Legion. I used to like just being able to log on and do some dailies, a daily heroic dungeon with friends for valour points and the odd night raiding with my guild.

    Now the game doesn't feel as free and easy as it used to with the introduction of expansion long grinds. Nowadays you grind and grind and then in the next patch Blizzard resets the grind and you grind some more. I sure did a lot of that in Legion watching that silly little bar move or not move when I clicked on a artefact power token. In it end I felt so stupid and depressed clicking on the token with a 2 second cast and then bar didn't even visibly move. Sure there are ways that allow you to catch up nearly each patch but they still involve grinding and then if you want to keep on being competitive you have to keep on grinding.

    I know what people are going to say, I don't have to grind. But of course there is Keen Kevin or Dedicated Dan that is grinding out all evening and if you want to roll with them and don't want to be left behind when it comes to choosing partners in M+ or raid teams then you sort of have to grind to compete and not get shelved.

    The whole thing was I enjoyed the casualness of the game, not having to do much to be viable in raids or whatever. I think that Blizzard underestimates the importance of that because people who have grown with the game are now much older and have more responsibilities and can't dedicate time to grinding so much. Plus grinding is not innovative game play, just repeating the same thing over and over and it breeds frustration and burn out. Oh look the harpies need killing the woods again! Some little narrative from someone about it, Same mobs needing to be killed, just did it yesterday and while I was levelling but oh lets do it again for 30th time!

    I'm so depressed. I bought BFA with in game gold but I really don't know if I'm going to bother to sub again and play it with this new azurite grind. Sure it's only three circles at the moment but don't you worry Blizzard will be adding more circles to grind as the expansion moves along I'm 100% sure of that. I've been unsubbed for a few weeks now and I feel so free not thinking about all the stuff I have to do in game with the grind.

    RNG was another big headache and I'm sure that's not going away next expansion either. Oh look RNGesus gave me another pair of pants this week from the M+ chest with slightly better stats but 10 ilvls lower! Yay not!

    I really really want to love WOW again but it's just slipping away from me with all the meta changes, does anyone else feel like that? Anyone else actually quit because of the changes?
    About blizzard adding more "circles" to grind, that is not the way azurite will be working, blizzard already explained it. Basically your necklace azurite level will determine the amount of circles you can unlock on gear, however the azurite level for each "circle" will be determined by the item level of the gear piece. So for example(using numbers completely pulled out of my a**): if you have azurite level 30, you can unluck all 3 circles for a 200 ilvl chest piece, but to unlock all 3 circles for a 250 ilvl chest piece you would need azurite level 40.

    So yes, there will be an infinite grind, but it seems there is much more of a breakpoint where more azurite becomes useless, also due to the azurite empowered gear not being able to WF/TF. So for example if you only raid normal/heroic, you only need to farm enough azurite level to unlock all 3 circles for heroic Ilvl gear and then you can chill until the next raid tier. If you raid mythic, you will have to grind a bit more in order to unlock all 3 circles on mythic ilvl gear before you can relax again. As it stands now they will not do it by continueously adding more circles on top of the existing gear you gotta grind.

    A side effect is that if you kill a boss and a 250 ilvl chest piece drops, it would as a result go to people with enough azurite level to fully unlock all 3 circles for max benefit(if you use masterloot).

    Again, these numbers are purely hypothetical, I honestly have no idea what Ilvl gear at level 120 will have and how many azurite points will be required etc.
    Last edited by oromiselda; 2018-03-16 at 05:46 AM.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by oromiselda View Post
    About blizzard adding more "circles" to grind, that is not the way azurite will be working, blizzard already explained it. Basically your necklace azurite level will determine the amount of circles you can unlock on gear, however the azurite level for each "circle" will be determined by the item level of the gear piece. So for example(using numbers completely pulled out of my a**): if you have azurite level 30, you can unluck all 3 circles for a 200 ilvl chest piece, but to unlock all 3 circles for a 250 ilvl chest piece you would need azurite level 40.

    So yes, there will be an infinite grind, but it seems there is much more of a breakpoint where more azurite becomes useless, also due to the azurite empowered gear not being able to WF/TF. So for example if you only raid normal/heroic, you only need to farm enough azurite level to unlock all 3 circles for heroic Ilvl gear and then you can chill until the next raid tier. If you raid mythic, you will have to grind a bit more in order to unlock all 3 circles on mythic ilvl gear before you can relax again. As it stands now they will not do it by continueously adding more circles on top of the existing gear you gotta grind.

    A side effect is that if you kill a boss and a 250 ilvl chest piece drops, it would as a result go to people with enough azurite level to fully unlock all 3 circles for max benefit(if you use masterloot).

    Again, these numbers are purely hypothetical, I honestly have no idea what Ilvl gear at level 120 will have and how many azurite points will be required etc.
    a) this all depends on how blizzard will scale azurite grind - if it will be as bad as on legion launch the grind will be retarded again
    b)masterloot seems to be going away so gl with that

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    You can get a toon to ilvl 925 ish or more in one day.
    You are full of shit is what you are.

  4. #164
    For Hardcore raider grinding is must but for rest, legion was not much of grind process. Complete emissary quest every 3 days , 1 RH dungeon run /day,6-9hr raid per week depending on ur preference, 1 dungeon for weekly chest reward, a player would had been capable of doing heroic raid on current tier. Which i would do in BFA. No more doing all wq every day, grinding 10+ m+ dungeon per week.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    You are full of shit is what you are.
    Well he is not entirely wrong, you can get a fresh 110 to that level in 24h - if you are extremely lucky and either win every single piece you need via personal loot / coins or have people drag you through raids/m+ and funnel all the loot to you. It can happen I guess, but it is hardly realistic, not to mention that just having 930 crit/versatility gear when your spec wants haste/master isn't going to help you that much either..

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by andy123456 View Post
    For Hardcore raider grinding is must but for rest, legion was not much of grind process. Complete emissary quest every 3 days , 1 RH dungeon run /day,6-9hr raid per week depending on ur preference, 1 dungeon for weekly chest reward, a player would had been capable of doing heroic raid on current tier. Which i would do in BFA. No more doing all wq every day, grinding 10+ m+ dungeon per week.
    Heroic is the equivalent of the old normal, so you're saying that as long as you're cool sticking to normal raid difficulty, Legion wasn't grindy.

    The thing is though, back in Wrath when this game was designed well and extremely popular, lots of people actually participated in now Mythic difficulty (called Heroic then), In fact, probably twice as many people participated in heroic back then as currently actively play the game total. So the "it only affects the 1%" is a fairy tale told by fanbois to excuse things like ridiculous expansion long grinds, WF/TF range being way too high, and distributing BIS items by RNG diarrhea. Those are incredibly awful and impactful design decisions that had volumes of ignored negative feedback.

    So, Legion being grindy at all is a problem. Mythic (and the grind did also affect heroic, just less so) raiding being too grindy is a problem that has essentially killed what used to be a healthy competitive environment and caused WOW to be at the lowest active player count ever. In other words guys, Legion was grindy and didn't work at all to revive the game. The grindiness quickly turned a potential revival into a funeral for the future of this game. It won't die, no, I'm not saying that. They WILL invest much less in the game and BFA is absolute proof in my mind. The expansion looks incredibly weak and like they've pulled back significant development resources in my eyes. Also, I would add that I think they invested A LOT in Legion resources wise. Overall I absolutely love what they did with 90% of the expansion. However, the 10% of what I did not like literally ruined the whole thing for me. Those design decisions were alarmingly short sighted, received extremely poorly, that negative feedback was ignored, then on top of it they also doubled down on those unpopular designs, like by introducing Concordance, for example. I mean I could have maybe forgiven them if they just stopped after seeing paragon traits weren't very popular (and pretty fucking pointless IMO), but that's not this dev team. Ion the ego maniac and his minions don't make mistakes. If someone can find one admission of a bad design decision from Legion I would be shocked. He literally STILL thinks randomly distributed legendaries were a good idea. Unless he admits RNG distribution of Legiondaries was a mistake I cannot be convinced that his IQ is above 1, and I won't play a game where the lead designer is that dense.
    Last edited by IceMan1763; 2018-03-16 at 03:47 PM.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by IceMan1763 View Post
    Heroic is the equivalent of the old normal, so you're saying that as long as you're cool sticking to normal raid difficulty, Legion wasn't grindy.

    The thing is though, back in Wrath when this game was designed well and extremely popular, lots of people actually participated in now Mythic difficulty (called Heroic then), In fact, probably twice as many people participated in heroic back then as currently actively play the game total. So the "it only affects the 1%" is a fairy tale told by fanbois to excuse things like ridiculous expansion long grinds, WF/TF range being way too high, and distributing BIS items by RNG diarrhea. Those are incredibly awful and impactful design decisions that had volumes of ignored negative feedback.

    So, Legion being grindy at all is a problem. Mythic (and the grind did also affect heroic, just less so) raiding being too grindy is a problem that has essentially killed what used to be a healthy competitive environment and caused WOW to be at the lowest active player count ever. In other words guys, Legion was grindy and didn't work at all to revive the game. The grindiness quickly turned a potential revival into a funeral for the future of this game. It won't die, no, I'm not saying that. They WILL invest much less in the game and BFA is absolute proof in my mind. The expansion looks incredibly weak and like they've pulled back significant development resources in my eyes. Also, I would add that I think they invested A LOT in Legion resources wise. Overall I absolutely love what they did with 90% of the expansion. However, the 10% of what I did not like literally ruined the whole thing for me. Those design decisions were alarmingly short sighted, received extremely poorly, that negative feedback was ignored, then on top of it they also doubled down on those unpopular designs, like by introducing Concordance, for example. I mean I could have maybe forgiven them if they just stopped after seeing paragon traits weren't very popular (and pretty fucking pointless IMO), but that's not this dev team. Ion the ego maniac and his minions don't make mistakes. If someone can find one admission of a bad design decision from Legion I would be shocked. He literally STILL thinks randomly distributed legendaries were a good idea. Unless he admits RNG distribution of Legiondaries was a mistake I cannot be convinced that his IQ is above 1, and I won't play a game where the lead designer is that dense.

    neither u or i have subscription number ,as blizz never released it for legion.
    not sure about ur mythic progression expectation. My expectation with raid is first 4 week - heroic , any time left then do mythic and from week 5 onwards drop heroic run and do only mythic run. no PTR raid shit
    By doing emissary quest every 3 days , 1 RH dungeon run , 1 m+ minimum required for max weekly chest loot i do believe a player will be sufficient geared to start heroic raid from day 1 and no need to do normal raid.
    i don't think any of the blizz designer are idiot.With so much grind and rng they want you to play more that is it.I do think they kept amanthul drop so low that people will try to farm it till bfa comes thus keeping subscription number high ,which may work.
    Blizz is their to make money not do social service, it is just they try to make lame answer for their design process ,their is a limit to which a person try to hide its true objective by saying something else.Like they said for tier pieces , that it blocks slots and maximum of loots get wasted due to tier set locked slot. for example :- As a dps if i can do more dps with ilvl 960 with tier set , incompare to 1000 ilvl with no tier set , i dont give a dam if maximum of loot is wasted, same goes for healer and tank.When t20 set released they Nerf t19 set so that t20 could become stronger and majority of t21 set are weaker than t20 sets.This is just poor set piece design which they want to get rid of it as they cannot do it properly and hence give lame excuses.
    They will never say "hey we want you to keep playing so we have introduced so much rng"
    In business profit always comes first rest all are secondary and secondary things will be shed if profit is taking a hit.

  8. #168
    Then don’t? Lol. I didn’t grind at all for artifact power durin all of legion and had no problems meeting my goals and getting some decent prestige (cutting edge xavius, helya, guldan and all AoTC. And in pvp I met my goals getting the 40 wins each season for the vicious mounts and +15 mythic dungeon runs a few times) I probably did 70 mythic+ all expansion, usually 1 a week. I would laugh when I compared myself to friends who did 700+. I never grinder world quests for artifact power either. The only remotely grindy thing I did was do 3 pvp world quests a day for prestige levels and got artifact power from that.

    Unless you’re in a top 500 raiding guild you have no reason to grind. Most guilds in the 1000+ range won’t car too much about your artifact level and these guilds will still get or almost get cutting edge.

    The second thing I recommend is switch from dps to healing or tanking. Staying caught up on your artifact level as a dps will be more stressful to keep up but healing and tanking is more relaxed and not a big deal.
    Last edited by Richardbro; 2018-03-16 at 08:25 PM.
    Pally Collector, 435 Mounts, 910+ Pets, 310+ Toys, 27010+ achieves.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Dude, it's been long enough that I couldn't remember the exact stats and didn't feel like logging in to double check.

    And no, it wasn't that massive DURING PROGRESSION.

    At the start of Nighthold we just had the extra paragon levels available in our weapons and while some were certainly more progressed it wasn't an insurmountable gap. We also know the poster I replied to was talking about the start of the raid because he said only a few folks even had their 2-set.

    And yes, the other players did play better at the time. His experience is EXACTLY THE SAME as if he had shitty weapon drops for months, or trinket drops, or lacked his two set.

    NONE of which mean he's a bad player, but the excuse - which is rather valid - is always the same.

    "I didn't have the DPS required so they cut me and raided with players that have a higher/better gear progression. If only I had ground more artifact power, won the roll on that weapon, used my DKP on that trinket, gave the leader a cyber-hand-job for my set bonus then I would have me the DPS required to stay in the raid."

    The guy eventually and quickly caught up.

    Good for him.

    But he was cut for a reason and whether you want to blame the grind or bad loot drops or even raid leader drama at the end of the day his DPS didn't cut it.

    You must be this tall to ride, end of story.
    no, it was INCREDIBLY MASSIVE DURING PROGRESSION. when nighthold dropped having maxed artifacts meant the difference between killing krosus or getting stuck. the traits were so impactful blizzard actually admitted to balancing mythic around them. also this expansion wouldnt have been nearly as bad without rng leggos and if they made AP account wide. if you maintained a couple alt fromt he beginning of the expansion rerolling was that bad. however, if you didnt imo it was just not worth all the time and effort it took to get all your AP and leggos on a new toon. i prefer to just switch to an alt im rerolling and just take it to one of my guilds alt/farm runs and get caught up on gear in a couple of raids.
    Last edited by globenstine; 2018-03-17 at 12:13 AM.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    That (and other things) definitely is a deliberate time sink so you end up organizing and emptying bags. Annoying as hell and got really bad since WoD IMHO. There really is no good reason that I see to have so many differently shaped AP tokens, that also don't stack
    Yeah absolutely. It would probably not be as annoying if they all shared an icon or some kind of visual marking like a distinct border, even if they didn't stack... Though stacking would be nice.

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