I ate too many prunes

[Queen of Hamsters]

Planned imbalance is a good thing for games that can't have perfect balance. Now I'm not saying that it should be a clear cut ahead-of-the-pack lead, but a clear one given same player skill.

They did say during their latest Q&A that "class envy is a good thing", but in reality they'll always be forced by the playerbase to balance and keep everything "fair". The reason for why we ended up with classes having the same utilities, came from the idea that they had to add new abilities each expansion.

Now that they're trying to rectify that, players are instead staring themselves blind on arbitrary numbers of buttons to push.

Your delusion really is a sight to behold. Please keep believing your arguments hold any water when you make ridiculous statements that have no hope of being backed up..

Which is exactly what you've been doing, flying off the handle when challenged.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Quoi]

orange juice has WAAAAAAY too much sugar dude.
has more sugar then some pops

coke-a-cola

minute maid orange juice
(had to do 1 milieter servings, 330 cause well not same sizes)

There are two things. First, good sugar vs bad sugar. fruit sugar isn't bad for you (not in terms like soda sugar, it still can be bad for you outside of moderation). Second, regular cranberry juice has the same amount of sugar in it as Pepsi. Both minute maid orange juice and tropicana orange juice has less sugar than regular cranberry juice (Ocean Spray).

I won't disagree that Orange Juice has a lot of sugar in it. Fruit sugar isn't that bad for you. But all fruit juices have a lot of sugar in them (regular, not diet). I hope you aren't attempting to say that Orange Juice is as unhealthy as soda, because that would be horribly wrong.

Cranberry-Blend
Tropicana original-no-pulp
Minute Maid premium-original/
Pepsi

[omeomorfismo]

And I only used your stupid ad absurdum to create equally stupid ad absurdum.

where did you used its? you randomly intuited a wrong thing (few buttons => depth) using a wrong inference (not(lots of buttons => depth) => few buttom=>depth)
then i didnt used ad absurdum, i simply used your definition and directly proved his inconsistency.

And I don't see the problem with that. Of course I don't agree with Blizzard's mentality of looking to make each expansion it's own game, and force everyone to play that expansion, and the older expansions become dead. IMO, it should take the entire expansion for the best guilds to learn and run through once all of the raids in that expansion. The less talented, will get more powerful, through level and other gear, to tackle older expansion's content. There are other things, like having BiS come from different expansions.

This is all a great departure from the current wow model where each tier needs to be stand alone better than the previous, and the current expansion stand alone better than the previous.

Looking at Everquest, there is end-game content that is multi-expansions old, and some of the BiS comes from really really old expansions.

Planned imbalance is a good thing for games that can't have perfect balance. Now I'm not saying that it should be a clear cut ahead-of-the-pack lead, but a clear one given same player skill.

The razor's edge of the best of the best only exemplifies the imbalances of each class and spec. The general masses takes that information to claim that their spec needs buffs, others need nerfs.

thats impossible both financially and real-gameplay. the natural shrink of people without the quick turnover would kill progression guilds and exacerbate poaching between them (like tbc), then basically nobody will buy expansion until needed so making them unsustainable to develop. i mean, blizz even develop LFR because otherwise raiding was unsustainable considering the pool of raiders...

and i dont think that citing everquest is a good move, even if i dont know it apparently, reading wikipedia, it is barely surviving only on pc sold to another company with several cutted expansions

[Quoi]

thats impossible both financially and real-gameplay. the natural shrink of people without the quick turnover would kill progression guilds and exacerbate poaching between them (like tbc), then basically nobody will buy expansion until needed so making them unsustainable to develop. i mean, blizz even develop LFR because otherwise raiding was unsustainable considering the pool of raiders...

and i dont think that citing everquest is a good move, even if i dont know it apparently, reading wikipedia, it is barely surviving only on pc sold to another company with several cutted expansions

No, it would only be impossible to change to that model. And yes and no. Features for each expansion would be useable for all (player levels for example). People would still buy expansions. LFR could still exist. The system looks at your level/gear level and suggests raids to apply for/queues for a raid. The point of having a linear character power progression is that things from other expansions would still be viable. instead of having only 1-2 raids each tier (difficulty setting aside) for competitive raiding, you would have say 5-15 raids of content to choose from. It would decrease repetition of the same content. It would decrease power creep.

It's clear you don't know much about Everquest. Before WoW, Everquest was the end-all, be-all mmo. It set the standard. It also was challenging and hard. It had a very strong following (and still does) for the time it was introduced and it's main lifespan. The big reason why wow beats mmos like everquest in terms of popularity? wow caters to the casual and aims to please the widest audience. Whereas games like Everquest cater to making the game for their target audience (much more on the hardcore side). Even the game Eve Online, the designers have a set idea for their game and cater to that. Eve is a much less forgiving game than wow.

[Deleted]

Was this a warlock pruning thread ? Because yes warlocks still have some spells to fill the bars ... now try to do the same for others classes like rogue,warrior,dk etc..

And it is not about numbers.. it is about losing iconic abilities and utilities like fucking poisons and gouge ..

[GreenJesus]

Which is why I think Blizzard should have planned imbalance.

ie: Make mages the absolute highest single target dps in the game. Make warriors the best single target tanks in the game. With guidelines like that, where every specialization or a pair of specializations are the best at something. It makes balancing a lot easier.

Then you have another coven where you stack affliction locks.

[FelPlague]

There are two things. First, good sugar vs bad sugar. fruit sugar isn't bad for you (not in terms like soda sugar, it still can be bad for you outside of moderation). Second, regular cranberry juice has the same amount of sugar in it as Pepsi. Both minute maid orange juice and tropicana orange juice has less sugar than regular cranberry juice (Ocean Spray).

I won't disagree that Orange Juice has a lot of sugar in it. Fruit sugar isn't that bad for you. But all fruit juices have a lot of sugar in them (regular, not diet). I hope you aren't attempting to say that Orange Juice is as unhealthy as soda, because that would be horribly wrong.

Cranberry-Blend
Tropicana original-no-pulp
Minute Maid premium-original/
Pepsi

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...as-bad-as-soda
https://www.livestrong.com/article/3...juice-healthy/
https://www.drperlmutter.com/avoid-orange-juice/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYPdTvqitg
http://www.businessinsider.com/orang...ealthy-2016-10
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.3696f28f74ea
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/oran...ting-5192.html
https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/07/healt...yer/index.html
https://www.verywellfit.com/should-y...-juice-2506678
https://www.healthsomeness.com/is-orange-juice-healthy/
http://time.com/5072703/drinking-jui...disadvantages/
"fruit sugar" is just as bad.
if you are too lazy to read press F3 and look up "Sugar"

i love how you even give me an example
Minute maid you linked me
pepsi you linked me
same serving size, and only a few grams difference of sugar...

and again
There really is no "good and bad sugar"

[Checkt]

No, I really doubt anyone understands why (gamplaywise there is no reason for it at all) and of course numbers matter. What kind of stupid argument is that? If you have less customers than you had befor then you're not doing as well as you used to.

Gating. It's been going on. I'm sorry that you want your cookies now and you're gonna yell if you don't get them, but if the community response had been overwhelmingly negative, it'd been change. It's been 3 xpacs my dude. You're in the loud, whiny minority. Accept it.

Paid MMOs as a whole have declined. WoW is still leading as it has since it came out, almost 2 decades ago. You want to bitch and moan, but that doesn't make your complaints accurate.

[Quoi]

stuff you said

Huh. I stand corrected on the (in a vacuum) fruit sugar vs processed sugar.

That being said, you know what eating a fruit full of fruit sugar isn't bad for you (assuming of course we pay attention to total amount of sugar)? Fiber and vitamins. and hey, a few grams here and there add up.

Either way, Orange juice is a much healthier option than soda (especially the pulpy variety of orange juice). I would even say that a person could argue that orange juice is healthier than cranberry juice.

[FelPlague]

Huh. I stand corrected on the (in a vacuum) fruit sugar vs processed sugar.

That being said, you know what eating a fruit full of fruit sugar isn't bad for you (assuming of course we pay attention to total amount of sugar)? Fiber and vitamins. and hey, a few grams here and there add up.

Either way, Orange juice is a much healthier option than soda (especially the pulpy variety of orange juice). I would even say that a person could argue that orange juice is healthier than cranberry juice.

drinking a glass of orange juice, and drinking a glass of coke are boht bad for you on sugar levels, yes orange juice has more nutriants as well pop had little to none.
but well having a varity of neutriants is common knowlege, so if you choose to have orange juice know well its alot of sugar so dont have alot, and if you choose to have pop, the same but also go have others.




Also diet cranberry juice, normal cranberry juice is VERY sugary, too much for me.

tastes really fucking good too.

Orange juice is healthier then pop because it has nutriants yes.
but it is not on sugar levels, orange juice is by no level "healthy" because of its mass amounts of sugar, but it is healthier then pop, like how drinking piss is healthier then eating shit.

[Skirdus]

wait did this turn into an discussion about actual prunes

lmao

[Multitorix Davlen]

Toys like the Sal'yin War Banner (dropped combat) were extremely useful. I had 55+ keybinds without even mentioning the stuff you deemed "unecessary."

I deemed it unnecessary because it is unnecessary. Niche things that you use once in a blue moon doesn't require a key bind and it doesnt mean that the player is unskilled for not having keybinds for every little thing. Stating that you had a lot of key binds doesn't make them less unnecessary to me. Getting rid of niche things in the interest of clutter management doesn't detract from player skill, you don't need 70+ keybinds to tell whose a skilled player. As an example; Eyes of the Beast was not a useful or practical skill in vanilla. You used it, if ever, as a "scouting tool" but outside of that one instance where you weren't sure of what was around the corner, you didn't use it. That didn't and still wont necessitate a keybind for it. Side note I started on a Roleplaying server and I loved eyes of the beast from a RP standpoint and did use it often for such, but in terms of actual gameplay Eyes of the Beast was never used as it was not useful.

[FelPlague]

wait did this turn into an discussion about actual prunes

lmao

what else is there to discuss? its nonsense "Less buttons = less skill" so we might aswell talkabout what the clickbait title makes it seem like its talking about.

[Heeresman]

like how drinking piss is healthier then eating shit.

Someone, somewhere out there, will thank you for this.

Worrying thought.

They've been doing it wrong for many years.

[FelPlague]

Someone, somewhere out there, will thank you for this.

Worrying thought.

They've been doing it wrong for many years.

i mean, bear grills seems to love drinking his piss.

[Heeresman]

i mean, bear grills seems to love drinking his piss.

Irish - check.
Horrendous/weird name - check.

The rest is normal.

[Makatafinger]

I'm out of keybinds for my fistweaving monk. I have too many keys to press.

[FelPlague]

Irish - check.
Horrendous/weird name - check.

The rest is normal.

bear gyrlls*
met him once, i think he has a cottage where i live, but lol yeah pretty much.

[TheWorkingTitle]

I deemed it unnecessary because it is unnecessary. Niche things that you use once in a blue moon doesn't require a key bind and it doesnt mean that the player is unskilled for not having keybinds for every little thing. Stating that you had a lot of key binds doesn't make them less unnecessary to me. Getting rid of niche things in the interest of clutter management doesn't detract from player skill, you don't need 70+ keybinds to tell whose a skilled player. As an example; Eyes of the Beast was not a useful or practical skill in vanilla. You used it, if ever, as a "scouting tool" but outside of that one instance where you weren't sure of what was around the corner, you didn't use it. That didn't and still wont necessitate a keybind for it. Side note I started on a Roleplaying server and I loved eyes of the beast from a RP standpoint and did use it often for such, but in terms of actual gameplay Eyes of the Beast was never used as it was not useful.

Just because you say they're unnecessary doesn't make it so. And if the niche abilities that were pruned were so unnecessary to you, then they shouldn't have even been a blip on your radar. Same for all the others that want less buttons. You should leave them be. Let them rot in your spell book for all I care. If you don't want to use them, you don't have to. But, for those that want to, we were able to. Now we no longer can. And this trend has continued for multiple expansions.

And a player that binds all their abilities and uses supplementary items to bolster themselves is a more skilled player than someone who wants way less buttons to press because "clutter" and doesn't bother with "unnecessary" supplemental abilities and items that could aid them.

70+ keybinds is an extreme example, though I'm sure there are people with far many more. Ultimately, classes and their customization had much more depth and nuance compared to now. And we're still going the wrong way.

[Aggrophobic]

Gating. It's been going on. I'm sorry that you want your cookies now and you're gonna yell if you don't get them, but if the community response had been overwhelmingly negative, it'd been change. It's been 3 xpacs my dude. You're in the loud, whiny minority. Accept it.

Paid MMOs as a whole have declined. WoW is still leading as it has since it came out, almost 2 decades ago. You want to bitch and moan, but that doesn't make your complaints accurate.

People were extremely upset and they had to change their original ideas quite a few times. They still do not seem to know how to handle it.

Not even sure what you're crying about that this point.