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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Najnaj View Post
    No, This was true 30 years ago but not today. The US is still the overweight world champ but just barely and the average weight is stagnant. Most of Western Europe is catching up fast. Much of the more developed parts of Asia are as well.
    As someone that just got back from a trip to Europe, this is true. I saw a lot of hefty sized people, especially women.
    Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I support the other side.

  2. #42
    Bloodsail Admiral Enrif's Avatar
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    can't wait for Amazon to rek the health care industries. maybe the US will get something better, maybe not as good as other developed countries, but at least slightly better

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enrif View Post
    can't wait for Amazon to rek the health care industries. maybe the US will get something better, maybe not as good as other developed countries, but at least slightly better
    Two things have to happen first.

    1. Convince healthy people that they do need insurance in case of an unforeseen event. We have entirely too many people who think health insurance should be optional and then become the first to declare bankruptcy when they do end up in the hospital and can't cover their expenses.

    2. Convince people that punishing the poor for being sick is psychotic. There's entirely to many sadists that get some sick satisfaction off being OK if a health crisis strikes them but would rather see those less fortunate suffer because of "muh tax dollars".
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  4. #44
    Our Healthcare is expensive and I can't compare how well it is to other places. I think basing it off life expectancy is not a good idea since we are one of the most obese nations on the planet, that contributes a lot to lower life expectancy.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by tttsssrrr View Post
    I've heard that's it's not just the $'s of malpractice insurance but also the time that doctors and practicioners have to spend doing paperwork and making sure all the technicalities are taken care because if a lawyer finds out a "T" isn't crossed it's going to cost big in court. And not the "Oh, I left my scalpel in your belly" kind of stuff. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the 90% of politicians that come from a lawyer background are all too happy to focus on making insurance companies and hospitals the bad guys while ignoring the damage that lawyers due to the healthcare system.
    Covered by their general liability insurance, which is what malpractice insurance is......which cost next to nothing relative to how much money they make


    so you...heard huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enrif View Post
    can't wait for Amazon to rek the health care industries. maybe the US will get something better, maybe not as good as other developed countries, but at least slightly better
    Good luck, amazon is going up against an insurance industry, a drug industry and the medical industry...all worth way more than amazon with way more monopoly control over those industries. Amazon does not have the profit to even come close to matching any of the top drug companies.
    They might be big in terms of value and revenue, but they are small time in the amount of money they give up for govt control to congress and both parties

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Do Americans also live twice as unhealthy?
    Nope people are making excuses.
    Canada for instance has obesity rates only a few percents lower than the US...yet their medical cost are multiples lower than the US.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Najnaj View Post
    Do you honestly think that it is the rich that voted in Trump? The typical republican voter is blue-collar and most of the republican states have lower average income and education. Healthcare is being kept down by excessive lobbying and one issue voters.

    FUN FACT!! The average US citizen pays almost as much for socialized healthcare as the average UK citizen...but isn't getting it.

    whhhhhooooooooooooosssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Researchers found life expectancy in the US was the lowest of 11 countries at 78.8 years old, while people in other wealthy nations are expected to live between 80 and 83.9 years.

    They also found that the utilization of these medical services were about the same did not differ substantially from their peer countries, despite having higher costs.

    'There is a belief that the US population uses a lot more health care services than other countries, thus driving costs. Yet, we found that the US has comparable rates of utilization overall, with lower numbers of physician visits and hospitalizations,' Dr Jha said.
    How can you correlate any of this to lack of quality health care? Have they factored out diet, lifestyle etc... 36 percent of Americans are considered obese compared to 29 percent in Canada or 27 percent in the UK. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems so if you overload the health system with problems resulting from obesity we should act surprised if life expectancy rates fall in the US? Oh whats that, the life expectancy rates in the US havent fallen even with the increased Obesity rates? huh...

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    How can you correlate any of this to lack of quality health care? Have they factored out diet, lifestyle etc... 36 percent of Americans are considered obese compared to 29 percent in Canada or 27 percent in the UK. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems so if you overload the health system with problems resulting from obesity we should act surprised if life expectancy rates fall in the US? Oh whats that, the life expectancy rates in the US havent fallen even with the increased Obesity rates? huh...
    So a 7% difference in obesity rates equates to 100% increase in healthcare cost? The report is more than just about life expectancy.

    The fact that over 60 million people cannot afford health care or health insurance how could you not correlate this to the lack of healthcare? With the cost of healthcare over double other nations how could you not correlate the lack of care to the cost of care?


    Btw life expectancy rates in the US has decreased for the last two years, first time since the 60's and is estimated to drop again this year to go 3-3

  9. #49
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    People seem to forget one thing: Going to a national healthcare system doesn't suddenly mean we put hospitals under government control. Tons of countries use single payer in that hospitals are still private, it's just the government who grabs the bill. Hell, the US does that with medicare. And in such systems, the government will negotiate down the cost of health care because they have incentive to keep costs low. In the US, neither hospitals nor insurance agencies have any incentive to keep cost down. Health care is only a choice to an extent, and at a certain point we all MUST pay for it, and sometimes on an emergency basis where you can't shop around.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    So a 7% difference in obesity rates equates to 100% increase in healthcare cost? The report is more than just about life expectancy.

    The fact that over 60 million people cannot afford health care or health insurance how could you not correlate this to the lack of healthcare? With the cost of healthcare over double other nations how could you not correlate the lack of care to the cost of care?


    Btw life expectancy rates in the US has decreased for the last two years, first time since the 60's and is estimated to drop again this year to go 3-3
    Yes, I know what you are saying, but how can you lump this on quality of health care is my argument. How can someone say the quality of health care in the US sucks by using just the life expectancy numbers? There is more that goes into life expectancy than the quality of health care. You can have the best health care in the world but if you eat greasy cheesburgers & fries and smoke a pack of cigarettes everyday your chance of making it to 78 is less than someone who doesnt.

  11. #51
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Whilst the Healthcare Coverage likely isn't the best, the actual Healthcare provided if you can afford it is fairly top-notch. I had a friend that needed an operation on his Brain and no Doctor in Australia would touch it, yet he got an American Neurosurgeon who did it perfectly.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    People seem to forget one thing: Going to a national healthcare system doesn't suddenly mean we put hospitals under government control. Tons of countries use single payer in that hospitals are still private, it's just the government who grabs the bill. Hell, the US does that with medicare. And in such systems, the government will negotiate down the cost of health care because they have incentive to keep costs low. In the US, neither hospitals nor insurance agencies have any incentive to keep cost down. Health care is only a choice to an extent, and at a certain point we all MUST pay for it, and sometimes on an emergency basis where you can't shop around.
    Not saying I am against universal payer, but the reason many Dr.s dont take medicare is because of the amount of paper work (and employees needed to fill it out) by the government in order to just be compensated for the services they offer. Solve that first and we may get traction on single payer.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    Yes, I know what you are saying, but how can you lump this on quality of health care is my argument. How can someone say the quality of health care in the US sucks by using just the life expectancy numbers? There is more that goes into life expectancy than the quality of health care. You can have the best health care in the world but if you eat greasy cheesburgers & fries and smoke a pack of cigarettes everyday your chance of making it to 78 is less than someone who doesnt.
    Who said it sucked?

    it just sucks relative to the amount you have to pay for it.

    two different things.

    Preventative healthcare helps keep obesity rates lower, but that is another thing that up until the ACA no one wanted to pay for and will soon go away

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    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    Not saying I am against universal payer, but the reason many Dr.s dont take medicare is because of the amount of paper work (and employees needed to fill it out) by the government in order to just be compensated for the services they offer. Solve that first and we may get traction on single payer.
    Medicare is actually the least problematic of all insurance to deal with.

    The reason they do not accept medicare is because of the low rates relative to how much time they have to spend with each patient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    People seem to forget one thing: Going to a national healthcare system doesn't suddenly mean we put hospitals under government control. Tons of countries use single payer in that hospitals are still private, it's just the government who grabs the bill. Hell, the US does that with medicare. And in such systems, the government will negotiate down the cost of health care because they have incentive to keep costs low. In the US, neither hospitals nor insurance agencies have any incentive to keep cost down. Health care is only a choice to an extent, and at a certain point we all MUST pay for it, and sometimes on an emergency basis where you can't shop around.
    Medicare does not negotiate, they set the prices for reimbursement and doctors have to accept it or not. (except for Bush's Part D drug plan give away to big pharma).

    If they don't then the max they can get is 130% of the rate but will have no patients referred to them and have to get authorization to see the patients.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    People seem to forget one thing: Going to a national healthcare system doesn't suddenly mean we put hospitals under government control. Tons of countries use single payer in that hospitals are still private, it's just the government who grabs the bill. Hell, the US does that with medicare. And in such systems, the government will negotiate down the cost of health care because they have incentive to keep costs low. In the US, neither hospitals nor insurance agencies have any incentive to keep cost down. Health care is only a choice to an extent, and at a certain point we all MUST pay for it, and sometimes on an emergency basis where you can't shop around.
    Medicare does not negotiate, they set the prices for reimbursement and doctors have to accept it or not. (except for Bush's Part D drug plan give away to big pharma).

    If they don't then the max they can get is 130% of the rate but will have no patients referred to them and have to get authorization to see the patients.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Who said it sucked?
    The OP.
    US Healthcare, Better? Nope, but sure more expensive.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Preventative healthcare helps keep obesity rates lower, but that is another thing that up until the ACA no one wanted to pay for and will soon go away
    Preventative healthcare doesnt keep obesity rates lower. Preventative healthcare is only as good as the patient. If the patient wants a cheeseburger the patient will eat a cheese burger damn what the Dr or nutritionist says.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Medicare is actually the least problematic of all insurance to deal with.

    The reason they do not accept medicare is because of the low rates relative to how much time they have to spend with each patient.
    Thats an issue too. I guess that will magically go away under singer payer?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Except all of these studies are flawed. They are lumping those who either cannot afford or refuse to buy insurance in with those who do have insurance. OF COURSE someone who doesnt have insurance and doesnt get regular testing done will die earlier and that artificially makes the US healthcare system, look worse when it isnt the system's fault. Its the person who refused to get insurance and see a doctor's fault.

    When someone does a PROPER study that only includes those who have insurance and see the doctor when they should, THEN youll see that we get stellar care and although it may cost more, its higher quality, and the wait for treatment is much less than anywhere else in the world, and the life expectancy will be showing where it actually should be.

    Any study can be manipulated to make something look bad when you pollute it with cherry picked negative information

    Also, I dont know who in the hell they think it paying almost $10k per year for healthcare services. I pay less than $1000 a year for insurance

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    Actually its not. US is 19th.

    https://renewbariatrics.com/obesity-rank-by-countries/
    you are incredibly lucky in that your employer gives you great insurance.

    I'm pretty lucky in that as well. but is NOT the case for majority of people, becasue majority of people has at least 5 times as much in deductibles ALONE. in case you are not aware of what deductible is - its money you have to pay out of pocket, before your insurance even kicks in. and even after it kicks in - there are co-pays. even my otherwise pretty darn nice insurance that costs us $70 a month for both me and SO - $25 copay just to see a doctor in network, $100 copay for emergency room and since we don't have a lot of doctors who are in network where we live, more often then not, we end up going t doctors out of network - bringing the copay up to $40 per visit. medications also have a copay. so do lab tests. and like I said... we are on a luckier side, cause we have NO deductible and DO have out of network coverage and ability to just go to a specialist without having to jump through referral hoops first unlike so many other US insurances.

    the reason why people do NOT go to doctors and do NOT buy insurance is not becasue they refuse to. its becasue they CANNOT AFFORD IT. between deductibles and monthly premiums and co-pays, they literally cannot afford to actualy go to a doctor even WITH insurance. oh yes. i have been there too.

    US insurance situation is an utter mess.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    you are incredibly lucky in that your employer gives you great insurance.

    I'm pretty lucky in that as well. but is NOT the case for majority of people, becasue majority of people has at least 5 times as much in deductibles ALONE. in case you are not aware of what deductible is - its money you have to pay out of pocket, before your insurance even kicks in. and even after it kicks in - there are co-pays. even my otherwise pretty darn nice insurance that costs us $70 a month for both me and SO - $25 copay just to see a doctor in network, $100 copay for emergency room and since we don't have a lot of doctors who are in network where we live, more often then not, we end up going t doctors out of network - bringing the copay up to $40 per visit. medications also have a copay. so do lab tests. and like I said... we are on a luckier side, cause we have NO deductible and DO have out of network coverage and ability to just go to a specialist without having to jump through referral hoops first unlike so many other US insurances.

    the reason why people do NOT go to doctors and do NOT buy insurance is not becasue they refuse to. its becasue they CANNOT AFFORD IT. between deductibles and monthly premiums and co-pays, they literally cannot afford to actualy go to a doctor even WITH insurance. oh yes. i have been there too.

    US insurance situation is an utter mess.
    You mean he is lucky *TAXPAYERS* give him great insurance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    The OP.




    Preventative healthcare doesnt keep obesity rates lower. Preventative healthcare is only as good as the patient. If the patient wants a cheeseburger the patient will eat a cheese burger damn what the Dr or nutritionist says.




    Thats an issue too. I guess that will magically go away under singer payer?

    With single payer they could afford to pay higher rates and still have huge savings to patients. a win win

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    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    The OP.




    Preventative healthcare doesnt keep obesity rates lower. Preventative healthcare is only as good as the patient. If the patient wants a cheeseburger the patient will eat a cheese burger damn what the Dr or nutritionist says.




    Thats an issue too. I guess that will magically go away under singer payer?

    With single payer they could afford to pay higher rates and still have huge savings to patients. a win win

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Do Americans also live twice as unhealthy?
    No, in fact the portions are too small in America.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    The OP.



    ?
    lol i am the OP and i did not say that.

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  19. #59
    Affordable healthcare for everyone? That's commie thinking!

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    lol i am the OP and i did not say that.
    The Title of your post is "US Healthcare, Better? Nope, but sure more expensive....." You're asking the question is "US Health Care better?" then answer that question "Nope". If your conclusion is that we arent getting our moneys worth than you should make that the title of the post.

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