I Still Love the Game But i Hate Blizzard for Killing Deep Class Customization

[Deleted]

Lets forget about PvE.
There will always be a optimal (cookie cutter) way of doing single target or AoE damage in PvE..

But in PvP there is always endless possibilities..
Survival over damage
Versatility/Support
Glass Cannon
Utility
Hybrid
DPS
Burst

Im the biggest fan of "deep systems of customization"
Systems that allow me to play the same class completely different from everyone else (of the same class).
Even if it's considered the "wrong way" of playing the class...i always like to customize my character in a way that fits my playstyle

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Wrath of the Lich King was the beginning of the "Hybrid Talent Tree" era

And i still remember how sad i was when Blizzard made restrictions on talent trees in Cataclysm. Killing any kind of freedom of choice, imagination, hybrid specs, individuality etc

I'm not saying WOTLK was the paradise of customization. No.
But it was the BEGINNING of a possible paradise in hybrid ways of playing your class.
If the system was developed on instead of being removed (in Cata) we would see today endless ways of playing the same class.

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A few examples of the Hybrid Talents and Customization (there were many more but this are the ones i remember)

Shockadin - Arena Master Shockadin Video
Deathknights - Thread of Deathknights discussing the endless possibilities in talents
At one point someone said "wtf DK is the most hybrid-friendly class there is in Wotlk" - page 2
HARP Rogue - S3 Gladiator 2338 rating Video (no sound)
Boomkin Tank - Thread with the builds and opinions and Video
Tank Warlock - Only possible with a Glyph (customization) later was patched by Blizzard
Hybrid Mages - Video of a famous mage playing 3 different hybrid mage specs (watch description)

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Questions:

Do you enjoy deep levels of customization OR you like the current state of it better? (more controlled by the devs, no crazy hybrid specs)

Do you think it was required to kill Hybrid Talents for the sake of Game Balance? Was it for the greater good?

[FelPlague]

So blizzard killed pvp customization... by adding pvp talents that added extra customization....


wut?

[Teri]

Hybrid talents didn't start in wotlk, it was even possible in Vanilla. Wotlk just happened to have the most points.

Vanilla early game had some really bad stuff tho like having to spec into instant arcane explosion

[Softbottom]

I miss hybrid speccing probably the most out of the stuff you have listed. Hybrid specs during WOTLK were a lot of fun.

[Juuza]

"Forget PvE" he says.
Did you know that there is a little minigame off somewhere in the northern eastern kindgoms that works kinda like Plants vs Zombies?
Blizzard has not updated that minigame to provide more stages or deep customization either.
Blizzard doesn't care about the minigames, be it the Diner Dash minigame in Pandaria, the Bejeweled minigame, the Plants vs Zombies minigame, and especially the "pvp" minigame.
Hell they keep adding pets because even though nobody ever does the pet battle minigame, its still more of a game than PvP.

[Deleted]

I miss hybrid speccing probably the most out of the stuff you have listed. Hybrid specs during WOTLK were a lot of fun.

Thats also the thing i miss the most.
I feel so...controlled by the devs right now.

[ipoststuff]

Hybrid builds needed to die. They were mostly not viable in higher level play and when they were it was in an unintended way that broke the balance. We have 12 classes atm. It's already near impossible to balance the real specs. If you ask me PvP needs even less specs. We don't need 3 rogue or lock specs to be pvp viable. 1 dps specs for each class and 1 heal spec for classes that can heal is enough.

[Detheavn]

Thats also the thing i miss the most.
I feel so...controlled by the devs right now.

Nah, that's just your inability to part with the game

[ro9ue]

I agree with the overall sentiment. Blizzard has to find the sweet spot between perfect order and chaotic mess.

It's just a zero sum game between those two extremes, but hopefully there's a point at which both are equalized where things are viable and every spec at least as a seat at the table, but still rough enough around the edges where there's room for play and to distinguish yourself.

It comes down to 2 major things:

1. Blizzard expects the community will expect balance - The Warlock tank thing and Warrior gladiator spec are 2 perfect examples. Why not just leave it in? All of the blue posts suggest Blizzard didn't want to "balance" these. Instead how about just leave those in for people who wanted to play them like that and say "these might not be perfectly balanced". That's all. Some people will complain either way, but the game will be better off if you have more customization.

2. Fun things that hurt nothing that were removed, or basically were nerfed into uselessness - Buffs are one. Eyes of the Beast is actually a perfect example.

[Deleted]

Nah, that's just your inability to part with the game

I still love doing PvP in WoW and is still my "go to" game.

But i love to be "different".
I dont like to be the same sheep as everyone else.

Imagination and individuality is very important for me. Specially in a RPG environment.

[Drtydeeds]

That's all it takes for you to feel hate?

[Deleted]

That's all it takes for you to feel hate?

I dont hate Blizzard after Legion. They did a pretty good job.

But class customization and individuality was so important for me...i'm still salty about it

[Deleted]

But in PvP there is always endless possibilities..

wrong, but what expect from someone who doesnt pvp on the highest level

[callipygoustp]

"Less is more" - the philosophy that killed the game for me.

I'm still convinced that the goal of the designers is to whittle down the ability set of each spec to three buttons:
1. DPS/Healing standard action (depending on core spec type)
2. DPS/Healing CD (depending on core spec type)
3. Damage mitigation CD

[Deleted]

wrong, but what expect from someone who doesnt pvp on the highest level

Not everyone plays to get 2600 rating.
I was able to reach 2100 rating playing a hybrid spec with crazy gems and trinkets.

And you know what? i was happy.
I was "different" from every other rogue.
I had my unique playstyle.
I felt good.

[potis]

Oh look, another thread of the few usual ones that have no idea what they are talking about.

Videos from insanely unbalanced era, check.

Customization that never existed you were just being shit at the game, check.

TLDR, being bad isnt being special, videos of an unbalanced era make you lose any point also, brb making video S1 Cataclysm 1 shotting everyone with CS BRING THOSE DAYS BACK BLIZZARD.

[Deleted]

Oh look, another thread of the few usual ones that have no idea what they are talking about.

Videos from insanely unbalanced era, check.

Customization that never existed you were just being shit at the game, check.

TLDR, being bad isnt being special, videos of an unbalanced era make you lose any point also, brb making video S1 Cataclysm 1 shotting everyone with CS BRING THOSE DAYS BACK BLIZZARD.

Decide yourself.
First you say the examples i gave were good, OP and imbalanced (which is not true btw maybe only Warlock Tank)
Then you say customization never existed and we were just being bad at the game?

You are crazy. Customization existed and it was good.

[digichi]

the old trees had a nice rpg element to them... Even w/ the painted backgrounds, putting the points in @ each level.

They really wanted to fix cookie cutter builds and not allow ppl to gimp themselves huh... totally doesnt happen anymore, no one has to tell me how to play. Starting an alt tho, gotta check iceyveins rq...

[potis]

Decide yourself.
First you say the examples i gave were good, OP and imbalanced (which is not true btw maybe only Warlock Tank)
Then you say customization never existed and we were just being bad at the game?

You are crazy. Customization existed and it was good.

When did i say anything about examples, are you confusing posters? Not surprised tbh.

It never existed, you were shit at the game.

You have the same logic as some of my insanely bad at the game familiars, they reached 2k arena rating once when the top was 2.4k with insanely OP just introduced mechanics and they think they can PvP or their choices were good.

Or anyone claiming TBC Arena era or Wotlk arena era.

You lose all credibility passively when pointing videos from those eras.

WoW has too many terrible players, your post is exactly why the game has changed the way it has.

They have merged the player skill level by default and created a chaotical environment.

If you remove the delusion of choice when bad choices existed and only allow semi-bad choices to exist the playing field is better for everyone.

Which is what they did with WoW, delusion of choice is a terrible thing for MMO environments.

[Squiggit]

The problem I have isn't necessarily Blizzard's design direction, but how badly they've delivered on their stated promise.

The issue was that with the old build system customization wasn't actually as meaningful as it implied. By and large there was 'the' build and then a bunch of stuff you avoided. Variation was minimal to nonexistent and while outliers did exist... they were uncommon, gimmicky and sometimes downright bad for the game.

The argument was that by doing away with wasted customization and focusing instead on limited options those options could be better balanced and more enriching.

The problem is that didn't actually happen. We're down to three talents per tier and 7 tiers yet even with the choice whittled down to 'pick one of three' you're still often left with a very clear best option.