Brand new to DK - Boosted to 110, How do I play Frost? PVP and PVE

[Murloch]

Can anyone point me in the direction in how to PVP or PVE? Broad strokes are good - I guess what I really want to know is what's the DPS rotation and how do I play DK?

I played Warrior a bunch but I have no clue how to play DK with the boost

[AlmightyGerkin]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-...-pve-dps-guide

[FertsBlert]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-...-pve-dps-guide

That's a decent start, check the Discord as well once you want more indepth.

But main thing is go practice and play the class, you'll suck much arse to start with sure but you will learn.

[hellhamster]

I remember Icy Veins being a very badly misinformed resource dump on this spec so I wrote a 15 minute mini PVE guide. Frost is very easy to learn but hard to master (ie get orange parses / perform better than the average frost dk). It all comes down to how well and how fast you can react to procs and how well you can juggle the resource system. Also, frost is very gear and legendary reliant, so only compare yourself to equally geared frost dks. It's a spec that takes quite a bit of gear to get going (960+ and 4 set bonus is the turning point), but once you get there, it's quite the formidable melee spec.

Read all your ability and talent tooltips first. If you have any questions or things that I accidentally omitted or forgot, leave a response. The Acherus discord is by the way the best source for info.

1: Your bread and butter

Obliterate and Frost Strike are your rune and runic power spenders, respectively. Don't ever overcap one or the other, keep your runes at 3 or lower and your runic power lower than 80. One spender can generate the other (Obliterate creates runic power and Frost Strike can proc back a rune).
Frostscythe is a talent used for long term aoe, basically spam it for 3 targets and higher, use it with Killing Machine (see procs) on 2 targets, use it with Killing Machine and Pillar of Frost and legendary wrists on single target (but it's best to have the Gathering Storm talent in that case).

2: Procs

When you see one shiny blue curve on top of you after you Obliterate, immediately use Howling Blast as your next ability, it does a lot more damage and puts a dot on anything that it hits. That's a Rime proc. It's caused by Obliterates, so don't overwrite that proc by using an Obliterate again before using Howling Blast.

If you see 2 shiny blue curves on your left and right, that's a Killing Machine, this means that your next Obliterate or Frostscythe will crit. That is caused by your auto-attacks. Again, it's wise to use that up as soon as possible, but never Killing Machine before using up a Rime proc.

3: Cookie cutter Talents

56: either Shattering Strikes or Runic Attenuation, explained on part 6
57: Murderous Efficiency
58: Icecap, Avalanche works in the 5% of situations where you can Breath of Sindragosa every 2 minutes on the dot (like Kingaroth)
60: Winter is Coming has the best utility of all 3, but pick whatever you like.
75: all 3 are situational, but Inexorable Assault works best in most scenarios
90: Gathering Storm for most scenarios, Frostscythe for continuous aoe like Antoran High Command or Eonar.
100: Obliteration for most scenarios, Breath of Sindragosa only for cleaves and huge on demand burst (Kingaroth).

4: Cooldowns

Use Remorseless Winter (with Gathering Storm talent on single target) on cooldown, don't use it if you don't have it talented on single target.
Pillar of Frost and Sindragosa are your 2 baseline cooldowns, use them either on cooldown for single target or hold on if there's an imminent aoe phase.
Obliteration is the go-to talent for ~90% of situations, you basically use it when you are kinda lowish on resources and paired with Pillar of Frost. It doesn't really matter whether you use Rime or Frost Strike, unless you're really good at managing resources. As a beginner you're free to use whatever you want.
Breath of Sindragosa is the other talent for the other 10% of situations, those are long term cleaves or huge on demand burst like on Kin'garoth, use it by pooling enough resources beforehand (>3 runes and >60runic power is the norm), always paired with Pillar of Frost. Don't Frost Strike AT ALL when it's up, you need every single runic power you can get.
Empower Rune Weapon works as a mini CD that basically fills you with runes, use it when you're very low on resources during Pillar of Frost (less than 2 runes and less than 25 runic power).

5: Runeforges

This one is simple, use Razorice on mainhand, it applies a stacking frost vulnerability on your target. Use Fallen Crusader on your offhand, it gives you a big strength proc on hit chance (Unholy Strength).

6: Legendaries, Antorus tier set and the 2 different playstyles

The best legendary is the wrist in all situations.
The second best legendary is Sephuz, always use it when you can proc it reliably on cooldown. You can proc it with Death grip, Winter is Coming or interrupt.
The third best legendary for single target is the waist. It's best paired with the highest dps talent, Shattering Strikes, and the 4 set bonus.
The fourth best legendary is the chest, which is best paired with the Runic Attenuation talent, it's marginally behind the waist.
Other notable legendaries are the pants, toggle it out of combat for Sindragosa'ing aoe trash packs, and the boots, toggle it out of combat to catch up to those pesky demon hunter tanks in dungeons.

The Antorus tier 4set bonus makes the Shattering Strikes talent a necessity, because the spell effect procs off Razorice stacks pretty fast. Try to prioritize Frost Strike a bit more if you have 5 stacks. If you don't have the waist but you have the chest, opt for Runic Attenuation, it's an acceptable alternative.

7: Stats

Basically we love everything, but haste is the most important stat, closely followed by crit, vers and mastery.

8: Relics

Ambidexterity >>>> Nothing But the Boots >= Cold as Ice > Blast Radius > rest
Tier 2: Torment the Weak > Light Speed > Secure in the Light > Infusion of Light > Shadowbind > rest

9: Trinkets

Amanthul's > 1000 Khazgaroths > 970 Eye of Command > 970 Chaos Talisman > 970 Shadow Singed Fang > rest

10: Advanced plays

Sindragosa when you have Pillar of Frost, Unholy Strength, Legionfall, 5 stacks of Razorice and trinket procs up.
Sindragosa as many targets as possible.
Dump your runic power to try and gain roughly 3 runes every time before you Remorseless Winter (with Gathering Storm) so you can build it up fast again.
Try for the double during lust or high haste. The double is to use so many runic abilities during Remorseless Winter that you can use it again while it's still up, gaining a renewed 10 stack Remorseless Winter.
Remorseless Winter (with Gathering Storm) 2-3 seconds before using Pillar of Frost on trash packs to proc Winter is Coming (aoe stun) twice during one Pillar of Frost.
Use AMS to dispel any and all debuffs on you (very handy for Coven, Varimathras, Argus etc).
Use AMS preemptively, certain abilities won't hit you if you AMS prior to them targeting you, like Imonar's sleep canisters.
Frost Strike has a small range, on bosses where you need to get out of melee range occassionally try keeping some runic power for whenever you need to run out.
Rime (Howling Blast) before Frost Strike if you have 5 stacks of Razorice and Shattering Strikes.
Fish for Rime procs on aoe by prioritizing Obliterate if you don't use Frostscythe.
Wraith Walk break stuns and slows, so use that intelligently.
Icebound Fortitude breaks stuns, so use that intelligently.
Icebound Fortitude with Death Strike gives an almost full selfheal.
Best opener is: Remorseless Winter, Pillar of Frost + Obliterate, (Rime), Obliterate, Obliteration+(Rime) or Frost Strike. If you proced Unholy Strength before Obliteration and you have 5 stacks of Razorice already, Sindragosa first. Otherwise use it after Obliteration. If the karma police has caught you and Unholy Strength hasn't proced during Pillar of Frost (yes it happens and yes it's the most annoying part of the spec), use Sindragosa on the next Pillar of Frost + Unholy Strength + 5 Razorice stacks.

I hope you enjoy the dk as much as we do, it's objectively one of the most fun classes overall right now, blood being probably the most fun spec Legion has ever produced.

[Murloch]

Thank you for the post!

I saw https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...3F1x4o/preview as well; I'll take a look at your suggestions as well I am looking forward to learning the class. I didn't trust IcyVeins or Noxxus or w.e that is because for my Warrior (who I parsed 99% on many fights for for Heroics before Argus when I took a break) the info was really not that great. I got much better info from here (MMO-Champ) but I couldn't find the same level of detail sticky as on the Warrior Forums

Thank you!!

- - - Updated - - -

Again let me reiterate how much I appreciate the post That's a big big help for learning Frost!

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you for the post!

I saw https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...3F1x4o/preview as well; I'll take a look at your suggestions as well I am looking forward to learning the class. I didn't trust IcyVeins or Noxxus or w.e that is because for my Warrior (who I parsed 99% on many fights for for Heroics before Argus when I took a break) the info was really not that great. I got much better info from here (MMO-Champ) but I couldn't find the same level of detail sticky as on the Warrior Forums

Thank you!!

- - - Updated - - -

Again let me reiterate how much I appreciate the post That's a big big help for learning Frost!

Question - do the Runes from Runeforging work in PVP?

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One more question! What is the standard opener?

IE for Arms Warriors: Charge, Colossus Smash, Rend, Bladestorm/Ravager - Wait ~Half a GCD - Battlecry - MS - etc.

Then the basic rules are: Don't use Slam with less than 20 rage, keep Rend up, and always use CS procs

Standard Arms Rotation:
CS - MS - Slam - Slam - MS - Rend (give or take some variance with procs)

[hellhamster]

Runes work in PVP of course.

Recommended opener is listed at the end.

[Murloch]

Runes work in PVP of course.

Recommended opener is listed at the end.

derp I somehow missed that - you've helped me immensely! My average DPS in Arenas went up a huge amount; and in PVE it basically almost doubled haha. Thanks!

[Ranaas]

Easy to learn hard to master rotation at its best

As afrost dk veteran I can say that post is quite good and explained very well.

Good job

[ro9ue]

<snip>

Whoa what a great post. So I'm kind of a veteran DK but I'll be honest I don't really get into the minutiae. I've been just looking at IcyVeins, and it's telling me to use Cold Heart + Wrists. You're saying Sephuz is actually better in cases where it regularly procs, and even then, the waist is better than Cold Heart?

Sounds better to me, because I have all of them but honestly don't really like Cold Heart mechanically anyways.

[hellhamster]

Whoa what a great post. So I'm kind of a veteran DK but I'll be honest I don't really get into the minutiae. I've been just looking at IcyVeins, and it's telling me to use Cold Heart + Wrists. You're saying Sephuz is actually better in cases where it regularly procs, and even then, the waist is better than Cold Heart?

Sounds better to me, because I have all of them but honestly don't really like Cold Heart mechanically anyways.

Popping sephuz every 30-35 seconds reliably is roughly 7-10% higher dps in relation to the waist.

Chest with RA is only marginally behind the waist and Shattering Strikes, it can prove to be the same or higher when haste is lower in relation to mastery vers and crit. But that's kinda rare, waist should be better in most gear sets, especially with 4set bonus.

[Felpleb]

You don't need a guide to play fdk. Just smash your ugly autism face on the keyboard and you get top dmg. In pvp atleast.Thats why it's called the autism spec. Tryharding for r1 on my ele, facerolling to glad on my FDK with the first time ever played.

INFRACTION

[Deleted]

There are plenty of guides both on sites like icyveins but also for instance youtube videos if if you do not like reading.

[Kendros]

Never cap runes, never cap RP, hit whatever is glowing, pop pillar of frost on cd . Thats frost dk for you.

When you get chest and bracers leggys, wait for 5 stacks of razorice to use Chains of Ice and Sindragosa.

[fairbanks1]

Depends on the purpose but bracers and chests are the best legendaries.

[Deleted]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-...-pve-dps-guide

Please dont use Icy Veins, if you are going to use a website to help you learn then Noxxic is a better start as well as Wowhead, but after that its up to you to try stuff out min max etc... i have the habit of looking at logs and other dks around my ilevel but with higher parses to see how many times they cast certain spells etc.. Also Hyperion has a very very good frost and unholy dk guide on youtube.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Please dont use Icy Veins, if you are going to use a website to help you learn then Noxxic is a better start as well as Wowhead, but after that its up to you to try stuff out min max etc... i have the habit of looking at logs and other dks around my ilevel but with higher parses to see how many times they cast certain spells etc.. Also Hyperion has a very very good frost and unholy dk guide on youtube.

Noxxic is one of the most outdated sources to seek help. Youtube, icy-veins, forums and discord are far better than noxxic.

[Arkthugal]

Look up build on Icy-Veins.

1. Make sure Frost Fever is up.
2. Use Sindragosa's Fury with all possible damage buffs (Pillar, five stacks of Razorice, Fallen Crusader, any trinket procs)
3. Use Remorseless Winter (For Gathering Storm)
4. Howling Blast when you have a Rime proc.
5. Oblit with Killing Machine
6. Frost Strike to avoid capping RP
7. Oblit without KM
8. Frost Strike if you've got nothing else to do.

IMPORTANT: Spending your KM procs is more important than not capping RP.

Use Pillar of Frost on cooldown. Use Empower Rune Weapon only if you're out of both Runes AND Runic Power to avoid wasting the resources it gives you.

Use Obliteration only alongside Pillar of Frost. Prioritize spending Rime, then Killing Machine during Obliteration.

EDIT: Also, join the DK Discord.

EDIT2: Do not use Noxxic. Ever.

[Deleted]

Noxxic is one of the most outdated sources to seek help. Youtube, icy-veins, forums and discord are far better than noxxic.

Its one or the other i cant remember which one is the outdated i never use the damn things anyway, best method lik i previously stated is Youtube and testing yourself... i've spent countless hours trying out new openers, rotation specs etc on a target dummy, i play Unholy which is slightly different to frost but still hit up the dummy with some suggested specs and get a feel for it, especially if your playing shattering strikes its really important to understand when to use them stacks.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Its one or the other i cant remember which one is the outdated i never use the damn things anyway, best method lik i previously stated is Youtube and testing yourself... i've spent countless hours trying out new openers, rotation specs etc on a target dummy, i play Unholy which is slightly different to frost but still hit up the dummy with some suggested specs and get a feel for it, especially if your playing shattering strikes its really important to understand when to use them stacks.

I just told you which one was outdated in the first 5 words. Read next time.

[Deleted]

I just told you which one was outdated in the first 5 words. Read next time.

Are you mentally challenged or just argumentative? my post was clarifying why i said that not a further question to which one it was.

Next time don't just "Read" actually interpret what is said. Child.