PW:S has no cooldown on alpha..?

[Calauza]

I think you are missing the bigger picture here, Lenience is by far the strongest talent on that tier for progression raiding, it works off atonement and there is a spell called PW: Radiance that will in conjunction with PW:S allow you to blanket the entire raid(size dependent) in atonement and give everyone 3% damage reduction to major AOE raid wide mechanics, if you can't see the power of that for progression raiding i dunno what else to tell you tbh. Yes its passive and yes you could argue a little boring, but its still fucking amazing for raiding period.



Yeah cause although being an absorb bubble spamming god for 2 expansions, allowing other healers to fight over your scraps was fun, it wasn't really good for the game now was it...................

I don`t want no brain shield only disc either but i want disc to be apart from holy like it was in wow wrath of the lich king. With more mana regen, with damage return per shield, with quick reacting penance to act as spot healing, the good stuf. I was happy at first with disc changes in legion beta on paper but those atonment last too damn short. Where is the fun part of a game when addons let you make the gameplay of a class total difrent from what its made of without addons. I bet noone that is happy with legion disc can`t heal up straight in a hc let alone mythic raid without addons. Addons arent made to make a class work , they are made to improve and in legion playing disk without mouseover addon is cancer if you want positive results. For now disc feels good in dungens on beta, i love it enogh so i can enjoy aplying the atonment with shield, but stil i need to stres the point out that dps role isnt for heleras. We cant compensate week dps players by dps ourselfs...and nor should we.

[Deleted]

I don`t want no brain shield only disc either but i want disc to be apart from holy like it was in.wow wrath of the lich king. With more mana regen, with damage return pe shield, with quick to act to spot healing, the good stuf. I was happy at first with disc changes in legion beta on paper but those atonment last too damn short. Where is the fun part of a game when addons let you make the gameplay of a class total difrent from what its made of without addons. I bet noone that is happy with legion disc can`t heal up straight in a hc let alone mythiv raid without addons. Addons arent made to make a class work , they are made to improve and in legion playing disk without mouseover addon is cancer if you want positive results.

What addons are you talking about?

Cause i can assure you that every healing class uses mouseover stuff, because 99% of those healers use Grid/Vuhdo/Blizz raid frames, so if you don't your just being inefficient, disc is no different in that factor. Or simply put, placing atonement on someone via plea/shield is no different that rejuv/holyshock/riptide other than you have to follow up with damage to get the full throughput healing. If you are de-targeting the boss to target individual players, that's not a disc problem, that's a you problem. Just like i don't de-target the boss on my holy pala because i'm pushing judgement or holy shock on cooldown for damage.

If you are talking about atonement tracking, then again, you actually don't need addons for that, you can do it through the blizz raid frames, all be it yes 3rd party ones do it better.

I can understand that you liked the gameplay of wrath but the problem with disc is that there were classes that just do that better i.e holy pala or holy priest with more raid utility so why take them to a progression raid? The spec needed a separate identity, which it got with absorbs, but those became too problematic as we saw in MoP/WoD so now we have what we have now, which i think has been a work in progress during legion, but looks like it will be a unique and amazing spec in Bfa.

I just sounds like you need to replan your approach to how you play current disc to get the most out of it, i have no more addons for disc than i have for other healers.

[Calauza]

I use healbotcontinuam for holy with key combinations like shift+click, ctrl+click, shift+alt+click.. or just alt +click,and other combos for dif heals. . I dont use mouseover at holy . I click each from the raid display from healbot and one by one the are healed. For dispel i use decursive. I get results at holy with healbot continum just fine . For disc only mouseover works . Stil you may be right. I will try to change my aproach to disc, i realy do want for it to work for both old and new players.

[Deleted]

I use healbotcontinuam for holy with key combinations like shift+alt+click.. or just alt +click . I dont usr mouseover at holy iin get the from the raid display from healbot and one by one. For dipel i use decursive. I get results at holy with healbot continum . For disc only mouseover works.

Wait wut?

So basically you are calling out the spec because it doesn't work with the addon you like to use, not that it is unplayable without addons?

That's not really an argument that the spec is crap buddy, that's just a you thing.

[Deleted]

I like the way they're increasing ours, though. It alleviates some fears about Atonement being forced out.

quite the opposite, this was another atonement nerf

[Segus1992]

Is Blizzard trying to make Discipline God tier?

New changes guys!!

1) 15% increased damage to healing for Atonement, from 40% to 55% of our damage
2) PW:S is now 1.54 * SP instead of 1.1 * SP
3) Smite absorbs 56% of our SP of the damage of the enemy instead of 40%
4) Luminous Barrier buffed from 2 * SP to 2.8 * SP

The only bad change is a nerf to Grace from 30% to 20%, something that was expected given that our Mastery acts like Grace.

PW:S is now ridiculously OP considering we still have Shield Discipline and Orison. For me on the beta, PW:S is 5200 effective healing per GCD, for 400 mana if fully absorbed. That's 4000 HPS and 13 HPM, for comparison Shadow Mend is 5400 effective healing per GCD, but costs 560 mana (4150 HPS, 9.6 HPM, not considering the damage taken), requires you to stand still, and causes the target to take damage AND has a much higher risk of overhealing.

In other words, with only Orison talented, Shadow Mend should never be used, and that's ONLY considering the HPS and HPM. Good balance. Let's hope it won't remain this way.

On that note, Smite is better DPS than Penance if you haven't talented Castigation. It also costs less than 1/4 of what Penance costs. I don't expect that to stay, but still.

[Floopa]

disc looks strong.

currently holy looks stronger.

feelsgoodman

[pendragyn]

I'm finding my healing is about 15% stronger but our health pools grew by 30% so it's a struggle to get people back up.

[Nurasu]

I am sory for youre lost, please may i remind you that veteran disc players that enjoyed the old discipline where forced even more to endure an almost an amputation in gameplay terms in legion . Where you stil keep the core gameplay where the old disc players where literly kiked out of the healing house into the streats of dps..

I've been playing Disc primarily since Vanilla; please stop speaking for all "veterans".

quite the opposite, this was another atonement nerf

For me, it alleviated it because I think a 55% transfer rate solidifies their intent. I think they will increase damage on Penance to bring it more in line with Smite, and I don't think they will leave PW:S as a stronger option than shadowmend in nearly all cases. I could be wrong though. Contrition and Orison have added some balancing issues that affect spell choice in ways I don't think they foresaw.

[Deleted]

they will have to either buff penance damage, nerf contrition or further increase atonement % or we will consider penance to be a better holy shock/lay on hands

[Zka]

They increased healing for all healing specs by 40%, so you know casting a healing spell actually moves the health bar which wasn't quite the case before.

Since player HP pools have been increased by about 50% this is actually a healing nerf.
Not sure how mob damage has changed, if it's unchanged then this is a PVE healing buff and PVP healing nerf at the same time.

[Deleted]

So the new mastery directly rewards you for casting PW:S on a person twice in a row, and can be talented to both straight heal the target (twice) and be mana efficient, with that efficiency scaling higher and higher as you get more gear?

Doesn't seem in line with trying to avoid Disc being a bubble bot. Whats to stop that being the core gameplay loop, excluding the occasional application of PTW/SW:P?

[pendragyn]

Grace, and Orison, are so good when the tank is getting wrecked and the shield is getting eaten as fast as your GCD can put it back on. But normally you just have to put it on before atonement wears off and the previous shield is absorbed to maximize Grace. Old shields get overwritten by new shields regardless of which one was larger so it's not usually worth it to spam a shield twice in a row on someone. For instance someone goes really low and you have to get them up before a big hit you'll have to shield them and then penance heal/shadowmend back up to a safe health.

[Funeralmetal]

So the new mastery directly rewards you for casting PW:S on a person twice in a row, and can be talented to both straight heal the target (twice) and be mana efficient, with that efficiency scaling higher and higher as you get more gear?

Doesn't seem in line with trying to avoid Disc being a bubble bot. Whats to stop that being the core gameplay loop, excluding the occasional application of PTW/SW:P?

I understand that people are legitimately concerned about disc returning to worlords of draenor style but it is not the case as long as 40%- 50% of the healing is in a legion way , what is so wrong having more direct healing ? People should stop asking to do more then one job per spec , if we are healers the we should act as healers not dps . I get it , it feels unique and if disc where to go back to before legion holy would have shadow it , but still , right now on beta disc feels airy with the same perfume of legion. PW:S isn't strong enough to be consider op. When you barely get 10-20% out of the targets hp that goes down in an auto-attack of the dungeon boss or raid. Right now on my legion disc i got almost 7 mil hp and i crit with PW:S more then 2 mil and no one bats an eye ..i know its on a cd ,and don't let me tell you how great it feels with 87% mastery atonement.. ( ofc i got 975-977 ilvl but .. eh details ) . If we get the option in bfa to chose between playing disc with more absorption with less atonment healing and at the same time we get to chose another micromanagement of talents to feel like more to legion style then its a right path . No one should be forced to play either before legion style or legion style 100% as long as we can set the talents in the manner we love.

[Calauza]

Grace, and Orison, are so good when the tank is getting wrecked and the shield is getting eaten as fast as your GCD can put it back on. But normally you just have to put it on before atonement wears off and the previous shield is absorbed to maximize Grace. Old shields get overwritten by new shields regardless of which one was larger so it's not usually worth it to spam a shield twice in a row on someone. For instance someone goes really low and you have to get them up before a big hit you'll have to shield them and then penance heal/shadowmend back up to a safe health.

That is what legion disc players don`t want , they just want to dps and heal while doing damage. For them direct healing is " boring" , and damage absortion is "evil" op. You know that something is wrong when bliz is trying so hard to make all of us happy and ends up making both "dps to heal atonment "players angry for not keeping disc overcomplicated and all before legion fans disc players unhappy for the fact that atonment still exits in the game. Personal playing disc on beta with pw:s atonment makes atonment more easy to accept. Makes me want to play disc at least in dungens. My feelings tell me that blizzard wants for old disc players to return ( i know not all veteran players are against atonment but the numbers show there are les disc players and that is saying it all ). At the same time bliz is keeping the legion core playstyle intact for legion disc players fans. I hope bilz keeps this mastery. At least makes the atonment more easy to accept that it aint going away in this expansion either.

[Supliftz]

lenience, while good, is definitely not the best talent in the row for raiding. Contrition is very powerful because defensive penance is extremely good right now. Orison basically can't keep up with adding 300%+ sp every 9 seconds to your rotation.

[Bodytriangle]

nice I like this change.

[Deleted]

lenience, while good, is definitely not the best talent in the row for raiding. Contrition is very powerful because defensive penance is extremely good right now. Orison basically can't keep up with adding 300%+ sp every 9 seconds to your rotation.

Totally subjective, if lenience stops 5 people from dieing to a raidwide mechanic on progression which causes a wipe, it is infinitely better than contrition in every way since you only lose the difference in healing between def pen, contrition and atonement healing from offensive penance but gain the DR and those people are still alive to heal.

Also do not forget over the course of a fight you must factor in that lenience has the potential to save healers a huge amount of mana by passively raising the HP pool of every target with atonement on them for big raid wide mechanics, which in progression again can be the deciding factor between a kill and a wipe.

When content is on farm, then i would agree contrition wins.

[Deleted]

Also do not forget over the course of a fight you must factor in that lenience has the potential to save healers a huge amount of mana by passively raising the HP pool of every target with atonement on them for big raid wide mechanics, which in progression again can be the deciding factor between a kill and a wipe.

contrition does the exact same thing by, uhhhhh, actually healing

[Funeralmetal]

contrition does the exact same thing by, uhhhhh, actually healing

Actually the difference between life and death is not healing them after they took damage but neglecting that damage reaching to the player ( where absorbing damage was so popular before legion and made the other healers feel uneasy around disc ) . That 3 % damage reduction from a 100 k damage ability that comes from a raid boss for example is more important to be taken when the players in question is at low health, gives them the chance for them to use a personal cd , or lets the healer focusing on both a more important role like like a second tank and at the same time you some higher dps. With that 3% damage reduction they have a fighting chance . Sometimes using all the healing burst in the world won't brink back a player from death witch is the main reason i din't enjoy disc overall in legion , all that complicated mechanic and still they could have made something else then a paladin/druid combo . Things like smite actually intrigues me witch is the best thing they kept from legion in bfa , and spreading that atonement with PW:S makes it feel like that atonement should have stayed invisible and not a stress timer . I love disc on beta in dungeons , it makes me feel like i can hope i wont be rejected when bfa goes live as a disc like i am now on live just because i am not a holy paladin.