PW:S has no cooldown on alpha..?

[Deleted]

I like the changes.
I´m just a little bit worried about how to heal high burstig stacks if rapture is on cd.
Maybe contrition and then spam shadowmend? Am i missing something?

[twistedmynd]

PW:S has not enough throughput because it's basically plea now. So spam it like a resto druid's rejuv or holy priest's renew, but you need to press other spells if you actually want to keep up with "real damage".

It does not give back mana from expiring or being purged (if you took that talent), only if it's fully absorbed.

The speed buff from the talent Body and Soul has a cooldown.

The change to Schism is pretty rad for AoE penance heals.

Rotation feels really similar to legion, but you can definitely feel the loss of Borrowed Time. Otherwise all's well.

[Rhaxus]

PW:S has not enough throughput because it's basically plea now. So spam it like a resto druid's rejuv or holy priest's renew, but you need to press other spells if you actually want to keep up with "real damage".

It does not give back mana from expiring or being purged (if you took that talent), only if it's fully absorbed.

The speed buff from the talent Body and Soul has a cooldown.

The change to Schism is pretty rad for AoE penance heals.

Rotation feels really similar to legion, but you can definitely feel the loss of Borrowed Time. Otherwise all's well.

didn't they remove the cooldown from body and soul the patch after they reinstated it? was that a datamining error?

[twistedmynd]

didn't they remove the cooldown from body and soul the patch after they reinstated it? was that a datamining error?

I just hopped on to the beta version 8.0.1 (26491) and Body and Soul has a 6 sec cd, triggers when available on any PW:S cast.

Just to add here are the tooltips in the premade gear [BEFORE TALENTS]:

1432 :: PWS
2691 :: Healing Penance
2268 :: Damage Penance
2546 :: Shadow Mend (1273 damage taken)
748 :: PW: Radiance (4 targets)
956 :: Smite
478 :: Smite (absorb portion)
173+2839 :: SW: Pain (initial+16 sec duration)
1794 :: Luminous Barrier (talent, per ally affects all within 40 yds)


=============

I threw up some tooltips just to illustrate how inefficient it would be to roll only PW:S when you could do so much more with radiance+penance or Shadow Mend spam.

It feels old school to be able to chain cast the spell, but it's weak like Plea is on live.

[theburned]

I just hopped on to the beta version 8.0.1 (26491) and Body and Soul has a 6 sec cd, triggers when available on any PW:S cast.

Just to add here are the tooltips in the premade gear [BEFORE TALENTS]:

1432 :: PWS
2691 :: Healing Penance
2268 :: Damage Penance
2546 :: Shadow Mend (1273 damage taken)
748 :: PW: Radiance (4 targets)
956 :: Smite
478 :: Smite (absorb portion)
173+2839 :: SW: Pain (initial+16 sec duration)
1794 :: Luminous Barrier (talent, per ally affects all within 40 yds)


=============

I threw up some tooltips just to illustrate how inefficient it would be to roll only PW:S when you could do so much more with radiance+penance or Shadow Mend spam.

It feels old school to be able to chain cast the spell, but it's weak like Plea is on live.

Solid stuff dude, almost like these numbers mean anything, considering stats and wrong tooltips......

[Rhaxus]

am i mistaken, or is pw:s en par or stronger than the rest per Global cooldown? penance channels over 2 globals, so it's heal per Global is around 1350, shadow mend after the damage taken is around 12xx, radiance + penance (depens on the amount of atonement healing) is around 3 globals for 4 targets, so you hit about 1 target less with shielding.

overall it looks to me ( a noob disc) as if shield is quite powerful enough

[Nurasu]

am i mistaken, or is pw:s en par or stronger than the rest per Global cooldown? penance channels over 2 globals, so it's heal per Global is around 1350, shadow mend after the damage taken is around 12xx, radiance + penance (depens on the amount of atonement healing) is around 3 globals for 4 targets, so you hit about 1 target less with shielding.

overall it looks to me ( a noob disc) as if shield is quite powerful enough

To spam? Shield is 1400 every time. All of the others scale exponentially. Even after just two shields, you'd get far more HPS from Penance. Not to mention, in a single target scenario, the SM damage portion will probably never occur.

[Rhaxus]

how do the others scale exponentially? mastery scaling etc is the same for shield and shadow mend, or not?

edit: to clarify, of course the rest makes more sense to use, especially with applied atonements etc, i am just seeing the strength per global for shield as high enough compared to other spells

[Nurasu]

how do the others scale exponentially? mastery scaling etc is the same for shield and shadow mend, or not?

edit: to clarify, of course the rest makes more sense to use, especially with applied atonements etc, i am just seeing the strength per global for shield as high enough compared to other spells

I shouldn't have said "all" but Smite and Penance obviously scale exponentially per Shield you apply Atonement with. SM will always be higher in a single target setting as I said though, because the damage portion won't occur. Shield won't ever be a bad choice with these numbers, but it won't be the best choice HPS-wise just like Plea isn't today.

[Veyne]

Unlimited bubbles, that when it expires gives back mana

I haven't tested it myself, but based off the tooltip, Shield Discipline does not give mana back when it expires, only if the absorb is fully consumed. If you spam bubbles in a raid and any of them do not get fully absorbed before their timer runs out, that's wasted mana you could use for more effective healing.

[Rhaxus]

I shouldn't have said "all" but Smite and Penance obviously scale exponentially per Shield you apply Atonement with. SM will always be higher in a single target setting as I said though, because the damage portion won't occur. Shield won't ever be a bad choice with these numbers, but it won't be the best choice HPS-wise just like Plea isn't today.

yeah of course, but it's a nice extension of the toolkit to have some preventive damage shielding while preparing for burst atonement heal. and i wouldn't want it to be the highest HPS choice, that playstyle had to die.

[Deleted]

Been testing for several hours Discipline in Beta, and still got several more hours of testing, so much stuff to do...

But well, important findings until now:

1) Divine Star is bugged...like a lot. It only applies atonement on the first hit on the first enemy, independently on how many enemies it hits. It only damages the first enemy. It heals everyone directly, but obviously, since it doesn't damage properly, it does not apply Atonement properly. Therefore, at the moment cannot compare it to Halo, which is working perfectly.

2) Grace applies to EVERYTHING. From Penance, Power Word: Shield, Shadow Mend, Halo to even the talents Orison and Contrition.
Just so you have a general idea of numbers:

Level 110 - 185 Gear - 15.300 HP

Penance with Castigation -> Heals for: 4 x 900
Penance with Contrition + Castigation -> Heals for: 4 x 900 + 4 x 319
Penance with Grace + Castigation -> Heals for: 4 x 1167
Penance with Grace + Castigation + Contrition -> Heals for: 4 x 1167 + 4 x 414

So with Grace, Castigation and Contrition, only speaking about single target (since Contrition applies the healing to everyone that has an Atonement, therefore, Grace too), for only 560 mana and 9 sec CD, you are healing someone for 6324, which is 41% of my HP.


On a final note (right now), Shield Discipline is not worth it for me at the moment. Even if we can spam PW:S, it still has the same cost than in Live, but only returns half the mana (0.5% max mana: 100 at level 110 with 185 ilevel). This can lead to a PW:S spam, where every PW:S costs 2.3% base mana (460 at level 110 with 185 ilevel), and the biggest problem, it only returns the mana if the shield is absorbed completely. With the current iteration, both PW: Solace and Mindbender feel a lot better, specially Mindbender which also acts like a mini healing CD. It will give 4.5% mana back, and it heals for 2.700 to everyone with Atonement with no cost.

I can definetly say that I really like the current state of Discipline Priest in Battle for Azeroth.
Schism feels good, really good where you can fit 4 x Smite and 1 x Penance in the Schism window, and it's a hella lot of healing to everyone with Atonement (it works specially well with Evangelism for those 6 extra seconds on the attonement duration).
Given that the Schism also applies Atonement, it's healing for:
718 (schism)
500 (smite)
500 (smite)
500 (smite)
500 (smite)
393 (penance)
393 (penance)
393 (penance)

So almost 4k healing to everyone with Atonement.


As I said, all of this numbers are at level 110 with 185 ilevel (shitty).

If you are playing with Schism + Evangelism I want to study if you prefer Crit or Mastery.

Feels strong at the moment definetly, not overpowered tho. Similar to what we have in Legion but not quite the same.

Oh, I almost forgot:

LUMINOUS BARRIER IS FUCKING SHIT.

Said. It's shitty, really, it's a 3 minute cooldown that shields everyone for almost the same amount of a PW:S (PW:S is 1433 and LB is 1795). PW:B still a loooot better with that 25% reduced damage, which can be paired with Lenience for an extra 3% reduced damage on people that have Atonement.


Right now, Blizzard's focus should be to:
1) Fix Divine Star, too bugged to even test it
2) Buff Luminous Barrier
3) Buff/Change Shield Discipline

Of course, I still have to test (or re-test) everything once I can get my hands on some sweet azerite traits.


Any questions you have, I will be more than happy to test them and answer them the best I can

[Puupi]

Grace has always applied to everything (except atonement healing, of course).

Luminous Barrier doesn't sound bad at all with those numbers.

It's a raid tool.

[KingMavros]

I just like this change very much for M+ but not sure if raid healing will be cool.

[Leenaleena]

Been testing for several hours Discipline in Beta, and still got several more hours of testing, so much stuff to do...

But well, important findings until now:

1) Divine Star is bugged...like a lot. It only applies atonement on the first hit on the first enemy, independently on how many enemies it hits. It only damages the first enemy. It heals everyone directly, but obviously, since it doesn't damage properly, it does not apply Atonement properly. Therefore, at the moment cannot compare it to Halo, which is working perfectly.

Oh, I almost forgot:

LUMINOUS BARRIER IS FUCKING SHIT.

Said. It's shitty, really, it's a 3 minute cooldown that shields everyone for almost the same amount of a PW:S (PW:S is 1433 and LB is 1795). PW:B still a loooot better with that 25% reduced damage, which can be paired with Lenience for an extra 3% reduced damage on people that have Atonement.

Any AoE damage has always had only one instance of atonement being transferred, no? Ever since they gave us Nova again, I haven't even once tried DS, so worth checking out.

I think LB is going to be very niche for movement-intensive raid encounters, where people are too spread and bubble couldn't be used at all. Imagine Imonar during the bridge where everyone is running, or first phase Avatar where people are standing all over the place (brain is mushy, can't think of better examples at the moment). A slight buff in numbers could go over well, but I really like the utility of it being a sort of instant "Use Rapture to shield everyone".

[Deleted]

Luminous Barrier doesn't sound bad at all with those numbers.

It's a raid tool.

That number is awful.
PW:S doesn't shield as much as now, it's a shield as strong as Plea is a heal, so basically a way to apply Atonement. The different between them both, is that PW:S scales with our Mastery, where LB does not.

Shielding for 1.7-1.8k is bad. 1 or 2 auto attacks from a random monster in the world already destroy the shield.

Just so you have an idea, used LB at the start of the Lordaeron scenario, where there is only base troops (no miniboss, not anything, just archers and so) and with TWO shots from an archer, there was no shield anymore, and that was like 2 seconds.

If it has a good scaling with Intellect MAYBE it will be worth.
Right now, with the amount of shiled it offers, it's not worth. If you need a CD for movement-intensive raid as Leenaleena said, you have Monks and their CD, you hace Shaman with the totem and you have Holy Priest with the new strong CD talent.
Druids cannot do Tranquility while moving anymore either, so both Druids and Discipline seem to be more oriented to deal with bursts of damage where the raid can be stacked.

PS: I know that Grace has always applied to everything. The difference are the new talents Orison and Contrition, which make Grace even better, and even more considering our new Mastery. Yes, it won't affect Penance as the mastery only increases the damage of Penance, but it does increase the healing of Shadow Mend.

[Leenaleena]

That number is awful. [snip]

Right now, with the amount of shiled it offers, it's not worth. If you need a CD for movement-intensive raid as Leenaleena said, you have Monks and their CD, you hace Shaman with the totem and you have Holy Priest with the new strong CD talent.
Druids cannot do Tranquility while moving anymore either, so both Druids and Discipline seem to be more oriented to deal with bursts of damage where the raid can be stacked.

Totally agree with the numbers being awful. Do you have a general idea/proposal how strong it'd have to be to be useful but not too overpowered to be mandatory to have?

Keep in mind that apart from maybe the top 200, you cannot expect every raid group to have every healer class on hand on demand. I would claim that they almost always have a shaman, but I bet there are dozens of guilds without even a single resto shaman. If you DO have a monk, rshaman and dpriest in your roster, the dpriest most likely won't need LB, but the possibility is there (plus depending on player the dpriest could switch to hpriest for a fight). So long as it offers a viable choice for limited rosters, I'd really love to keep it (in a slightly buffed up form).

[Puupi]

It should be about (or max) 50% of what Revival heals. How much does Revival heal?

[MendUS]

Conceptually, I don't mind Luminous Barrier since it provides us an alternative for fights where we are spread out, or for people playing in raids larger than 20 people. Personally, however, I wish it was replaced with something else.

It's in a terrible talent row to compete for viability without becoming completely overpowered. Either it's weaker than Evangelism in raids and never taken, or better than Evangelism and completely broken. Same goes for Grace in dungeons, you'll never take LB over Grace in 5 man content. The biggest issue, IMO, is not that it just has to be better than Evangelism, it also has to be better than PW: Barrier as well. At this point, the only time I could even foresee taking it is when I want to not think about anything and I am doing a 30 man Heroic clear of some BFA raid where there is almost no stacking at all and the raid is spread for a majority of the encounter. What's the likelihood of all these criteria being met? Pretty dang low. Evangelism, even without Velens, is extremely powerful. I'm just not sure how they thread this needle.

Side note: I put together a feedback thread in the proper BfA forum if you guys want to drive discussion there, it's more likely to be seen https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762277952

There is a laundry list of specific issues with the current talents, as well as Mastery.

[Puupi]

I think Grace shouldn't exist at all - or it should be a baseline passive.