Master Loot being purged?

[Deleted]

More options and control being taken away from players. At this point, what do you expect?

[Ophenia]

Guys, I hope you've all taken notes on Blizzard's Strategy here.

Step 1 : implement Personal Loot
Step 2 : give an incentive to use Personal Loot, as nobody uses it (more loots)
Step 3 : force Personal Loot, as still nobody uses it (you now need a said amount of people from your guild to be able to use something else)
Step 4 : Tell anyone during a Q&A that you've noticed an increase in the usage of Personal Loot
Step 5 : Remove everything else than Personal Loot.

That's so beautiful.
OF COURSE THERE IS AN INCREASE OF GROUPS USING IT DUDE, WE CAN'T DO OTHERWISE

You can always trade gear to those people. I raid HC on personal loot and we constantly trade loot to each other.

You can't if the item is higher than the one the guy currently has equipped.

Of course now you can trade everything as a Heroic Antorus is a 965+ group rushing a 945+-looting raid.
Won't be the same ol' story for the first BfA's tier.

[Etoo]

Of course it is. They can't be full-rng if they don't. People might actually get gear they want in a reasonable time.

[Seramore]

So it will slow down progression in the first month the raid tier is up. That's probably what Blizzard wants? Plus killing split runs ofc.

It's not about delaying progression, it's about the way it would punish guilds and players who use this system.

[Ferozan]

Whoever says that ML being removed at all is better to the game clearly doesn't raid as a guild.
Hell, it isn't even ML anymore, you can only set to ML if the majority of the raid is from the same guild.

Of course, personal is better for the pug environment of the game. That is the reason it was created.
But for a Mythic raid, where you want to choose the people that will be geared first for a better progression, personal loot gives you no control over that.
It is like the Legendary system on the start of Legion, but now it involves all the pieces of gear.

And for the people to think this will kill split raids, lol.
They will just find another solution.

To sum it all, this clearly shows the direction of pve blizzard wants the game to go moving forward.
It wouldn't be a surprise if they announce no mythic raids on the expansion after BfA, since the game's focus is moving slowly towards M+ and Pug/casual content in general.

[Craaazyyy]

first they killed pvp.. not they're trying to kill raiding.. well makes sense, i guess raids taking too much time and money to make.. and they want to make money, not spend it

way to go blizzard LMAO

[SL1200]

Personal loot took some of the fun out of the game for me. I liked the old system better.

[NotInTheFace0]

LOL the shitstorm being whipped up over false information....It's not master loot going away, it's tier tokens going away

[Strifelol]

LOL the shitstorm being whipped up over false information....It's not master loot going away, it's tier tokens going away

Yo I'm from planet Earth, where are you contacting us from? Because that's def not what Ion implied when the question was asked about PL being the main loot option going forward aka getting rid of ML.

[Thagrynor]

You can always trade gear to those people. I raid HC on personal loot and we constantly trade loot to each other.

This is true only if you have the same or higher ilvl than dropped. With Titanforging, this is a real pain in the ass.

Situation: You and Player B (same class and spec) are running. You are both a dual wielding class, lets say Sub Rogue (just because it is quick to type and illustrates my point). You get your 5th dagger to drop out of a raid. The first two were upgrades, so you used them. The next 2 were each 5 ilvl higher than the previous ones you had, couldn't trade either. Number 5 is 5 ilvl higher than you had. "Yay for upgrades you say! I can use this!" Then you look at PlayerB. He has been having shit luck with Personal Loot and, since this is first raid tier and you are now 2 months in, he is still using shit blue heroic dungeon daggers. But you cannot trade that new dagger to him because it is a tiny upgrade for you, but a MASSIVE upgrade from him. As a whole, it would be (let's say) a 3% DPS increase for you, but a 25% DPS increase for him. It would definitely make progression easier. But, oh well, Personal Loot, lawlz, he is stuck with his shit heroic blue daggers and you get a tiny upgrade that could have been Master Looted to someone else that would have helped your raid group as a whole with progression.

This is why Personal Loot can be a pain in the ass. I think if they made it so that you could trade up to, say, 10 ilvl higher than what you had, then it would be fine. 15ilvl+ is likely going to be a pretty big upgrade for you as well.

[Onikaroshi]

LOL the shitstorm being whipped up over false information....It's not master loot going away, it's tier tokens going away

Not when the game lead says it's reasonable assumption that pl will be the only option

[Darleth]

You can always trade gear to those people. I raid HC on personal loot and we constantly trade loot to each other.

Sure, on Heroic that isnt that much of a hassle. But even then there are restrictions with warforging which will still be available in bfa.

Most mythic guilds aren't raiding on personal loot though because they go after "who can use this item the best" or "who needs this the most" and even going after their overall performance; there is no reason to give that guy that dies every try after 30 seconds into the fight the best gear that just dropped, because he wont be able to use it effectively anyways and he shouldn't even be in the raid to begin with. There are multiple aspects to why master loot should just stay. Im not completely against personal loot, but I dont see the point of it being better than master looting at all.

I think we can argue all we want about this and wont probably get to a point where we agree on whats better or not. Im just not a fan of personal loot for different reasons.

[Strifelol]

Personal loot is a great system if you're in a pug group, or when you're done getting tier sets completed in organized guilds. Personal loot doesn't work in organized guild groups when you're trying to gear up for mythic progression. The main reason behind ML is to be able to get the right tier sets to the right people and to get the right pieces of loot to your strongest players or classes that will best utilize that gear to help you with progression. Their reasoning behind why they want PL to be the only loot option is flawed because as they said, tier sets are being removed, therefore split runs will be less desirable just from that change alone. They will still be good but I bet guilds that aren't going for world first or maybe top 10 in their region wont even consider splits.

This change wont stop splits entirely. Guilds are going to start requiring 3-5 of the same class so you can chain run raids and then whatever character had the best luck will be your main. Another option would be to stack raids by armor type such as a full leather run or full plate run etc to trade pieces of gear around. It's never going to stop guilds from doing things to give themselves an advantage if anything it's going to encourage this type of behavior even more. These are just examples obviously.

To be completely honest with you, splits aren't even that impactful anymore unless you're going for world first. Guilds that run splits now a days only really get an advantage early in the tier but once they start getting to the harder bosses and the other guilds that didn't run splits start to catch up, the gear gap begins to diminish. I think the best option is to leave ML as an option at least for Mythic difficulty since most if not all groups that are running Mythic raids are organized guilds and leave PL for LFR/Normal/Heroic. I would be ok with that.

[Ophenia]

A lot of people used personal loot the moment it was clear that it gave more loot. I don't know what you are talking about. I guess both of us have our own anecdotes about it but I've seen PL used heavily.

Because you can't use anything else if you have too many pickups in your groups. You need a certain amount of guildmates in the raid to be able to switch to MasterLoot.

Only guild raids can use MasterLoot as of today. So that's obvious that a lot of groups only using Personal Loot, that's the only option.

[Darleth]

I have to ask, why is that guy even invited to a mythic progression raid?

Thats why I said "he probably shouldn't be in the raid to begin with". There are sometimes people who arent really into mythic progression raiding but get the chance to help out because a player or two are missing; it happens in some guilds and that isn't particularly a bad thing; still you wouldn't want to give him loot after a kill then.

Also, in my old guild, we had this hunter player that was literally like this. But because she was the girlfriend of the guildmaster, she still got into the raids. So stuff like this actually happens more out of sympathy or other things.

Edit: also strifelol basically summed it up quite perfectly.

[Malefic]

This isn't the death to split runs, at all. Guilds will still run 5+ split runs.

Here's why.

1. Class balance, guilds will want players to have classes that are known to be optimal in certain things, multiple Hunters, Rogues, Paladins (Blessings), Death Knights (Grips), Multi Dotters etc.

2. What's more likely to happen, is the guilds run the 5+ runs and bring the better geared characters. People will play 5 different Hunters and just take the one that gets the luckiest.

Honestly this doesn't kill split runs, or just makes them more difficult to get the desired result (or easier in some ways)

[Coldfrostzero]

You can always trade gear to those people. I raid HC on personal loot and we constantly trade loot to each other.

- - - Updated - - -



On average you get a lot more loot with Personal over Master so that's pretty appealing. The big difference is that personal loot does not give tier tokens but tier pieces so trading tier around was much harder on Personal than it is on Master but BfA has no tier.

Problem with this is that if I have 960 BIS item stat wise and a 965 drops that is BIS stat wise for someone else, you CAN'T trade it. Screwed over many guildies of mine when something drops on personal loot when we aren't doing progression and it proccs up 10-20 item levels and is garbage for that person. If ML is going away eventually, then gear should go back to the way it was in LFR Dragonsoul, let anyone trade it regardless (granted this lead to people kicking people for not giving up loot). That and allow bonus rolls to be traded, not even sure why this was restricted in the first place. I would rather give up a crappy item I don't need to a guildie or a random pug member than vendor it for 20g. It makes their day, keeps them in the raid (pug) or coming back (guildie) and its no longer a waste of gold/order hall resources/pvp tokens.

tl;dr:

I think personal loot is great for pugs and non-progression night raiding, but it needs to be less restrictive than it is.

[Softbottom]

This change wont stop splits entirely. Guilds are going to start requiring 3-5 of the same class so you can chain run raids and then whatever character had the best luck will be your main. Another option would be to stack raids by armor type such as a full leather run or full plate run etc to trade pieces of gear around. It's never going to stop guilds from doing things to give themselves an advantage if anything it's going to encourage this type of behavior even more. These are just examples obviously.

It's sad that people actually do this in the first place lol.

[Ningjinq]

It might kill split runs unless there’s a broken trinket in the raid. M+ might become more efficient for gearing out.

[Sting]

This is true only if you have the same or higher ilvl than dropped. With Titanforging, this is a real pain in the ass.

Situation: You and Player B (same class and spec) are running. You are both a dual wielding class, lets say Sub Rogue (just because it is quick to type and illustrates my point). You get your 5th dagger to drop out of a raid. The first two were upgrades, so you used them. The next 2 were each 5 ilvl higher than the previous ones you had, couldn't trade either. Number 5 is 5 ilvl higher than you had. "Yay for upgrades you say! I can use this!" Then you look at PlayerB. He has been having shit luck with Personal Loot and, since this is first raid tier and you are now 2 months in, he is still using shit blue heroic dungeon daggers. But you cannot trade that new dagger to him because it is a tiny upgrade for you, but a MASSIVE upgrade from him. As a whole, it would be (let's say) a 3% DPS increase for you, but a 25% DPS increase for him. It would definitely make progression easier. But, oh well, Personal Loot, lawlz, he is stuck with his shit heroic blue daggers and you get a tiny upgrade that could have been Master Looted to someone else that would have helped your raid group as a whole with progression.

This is why Personal Loot can be a pain in the ass. I think if they made it so that you could trade up to, say, 10 ilvl higher than what you had, then it would be fine. 15ilvl+ is likely going to be a pretty big upgrade for you as well.

Excellent point, I just made a similar one on my guilds discord. On top of that, with the legendary system gone it creates even more restrictions with trading. I've traded some very high ilvl stuff and was only able to because I already had a legendary for that slot.