Alts BfA will be similar to Legion in terms of alt-friendliness.

[tyrlaan]

ROFL! Ok, welcome to ignore I guess. I mean, you're not even providing any evidence or argument to refute what I'm saying. You're just repeating: "You're wrong" without anything else.

Well, whatever. I have better things to do than argue with a broken record.

You can't manage to figure out opinion does not equal fact so you will put me on ignore. Head in sand much?

We're way off topic at this point anyway, so by all means. I won't lose sleep if you don't see my posts.

[Aliven]

Aye, this is a fact. I'll assume Ian did say that and agree this is a fact.


This is not fact. This is opinion.

Once again... opinion does not equal fact.

For the record though, WoW has been about "using psychological tricks" since day one, so I presume you've always thought it was nefarious?



You're welcome to your opinion. I can't tell you your opinion is wrong because neither of us have empirical evidence to prove or disprove it.

I can tell you that claiming your opinion as fact is wrong, however. That's my point. It's always been my point. You just don't want to acknowledge this.

For the record - no.
Also, you are arguing for the sake of arguing and semantics. Waste of time for both of us.

[nazrakin]

The Honor/Prestige system being character locked is pretty terrible, I don't hate the system as a concept, but if I want to pvp, I definitely don't want to have to grind out 50 honor levels every time I swap to an alt. Even without honor talents though, I don't like the idea that grinding honor is character locked, because it's a team game and I don't think you should be held back for supporting your team by playing the best class for a given comp/season.

I would've done a lot more casual pvp if I could've progressed my account from a character of my choice, but the prestige rewards require such a time investment that I wouldn't even consider doing it on alts. After all, only what, .4% of accounts have a level 25 prestige character?

Theyve gotten rid of grinding honor talents in bfa, you unlock them the same as normal talents. And the new prestige ranks are just going to be a pvp loot box.

[Aliven]

There's a disconnect between what many players consider "alt-friendly", and what the developers consider alt-friendly.

Many players translate alt-friendly into "least amount of invested time to get to where my main is".
Devs seem to translate it into "Feeling like there's a reason to play alts and have things to do".

I believe that Legion did alt-friendliness VERY well past 7.2, the only issue was Legendaries and those are going away.

Aye, there was easier to catch up but while in previous expansions we have only gear to catch up now we have 3 systems - gear, legos and artifact weapon. Only one of those systems was somewhat ammended.

And lets be honest - most of those catch ups are at the near end of the expansion (legos) where it doesnt really matter.

Blizzard also is disconnected in that statement of yours - why i should waste time on my alt when i can use that time to empower my main character? Ergo endless grind works that way.

Im pretty sure blizzard will create new "interesting system they believe is fun and awesome" which in turn will boil into source of frustration for players.

EDIT: There is also infamous "Blizzard pride" - they refuse to acknowledge problems because they think they knows best. Then they admit those mistakes players were saying since beta tests and say "we learned from that".

On the different topic - so far azerite talents are so boring it hurts.

[Queen of Hamsters]

why i should waste time on my alt when i can use that time to empower my main character? .

Um... because you want to? Sorry, I don't identify with the whole "I don't wanna do it but I gotta do it so I'll be angry about it"-way of reasoning...

Feel like it's more important to empower your main and that you'd be wasting time playing alts? Then stick with the main. I have not been more than 1 or 2 Artifact points behind others I play with throughout the expansion, and I started playing alts before they made catch-up mechanics. And if you truly feel as though the game does nothing but string you along and that you'd rather it returned to shittier times with ceilings of progression where people would spend months between tiers bitching in cities about "nothing to do", then Classic is coming out soon enough.

Seriously, far fewer players play this game at a level where they need to be cutting edge than what peeps on these forums like to pretend.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not sure how any of this changes the concept that opinion does not equal fact.

You just aren't recognizing that I'm not arguing whether your opinion is wrong.

Side note, why the hell did you buy BfA??

Don't bother, hat guy has been around professing how "everyone he knows" quit the game during X period for as long as I can remember. Legion might not have gone down with some on a personal level, but it's been a critical and financial success, which is not something to sneeze at considering they came from an all-time low in this game's history in terms of goodwill from players and critics.

Gotta love the "Anecdotal evidence and wishful thinking shapes reality!!"-crowd though.

[Aliven]

Um... because you want to? Sorry, I don't identify with the whole "I don't wanna do it but I gotta do it so I'll be angry about it"-way of reasoning...

Feel like it's more important to empower your main and that you'd be wasting time playing alts? Then stick with the main. I have not been more than 1 or 2 Artifact points behind others I play with throughout the expansion, and I started playing alts before they made catch-up mechanics. And if you truly feel as though the game does nothing but string you along and that you'd rather it returned to shittier times with ceilings of progression where people would spend months between tiers bitching in cities about "nothing to do", then Classic is coming out soon enough.

Seriously, far fewer players play this game at a level where they need to be cutting edge than what peeps on these forums like to pretend.

- - - Updated - - -


.

Your argument is "not many people should think that way".

And no, i dont chase meaningless ilvls or stats just for the sake of stats.

Endless grind gives push to always improve on your most invested and most developed character - this a fact. How people cope with this is different matter, but that feeling is build into this system. For some it is no biggie for others it is pressure to stick to one character because of sunk cost fallacy. Point is not how you or me deal with it but that endless grinds are designed to work that way. This is blatant skinner box, so painfully obvious.

Like or not but changing a spec or even rerolling to a new class was a serious issue before 7.2

[Queen of Hamsters]

Your argument is "not many people should think that way".

And no, i dont chase meaningless ilvls or stats just for the sake of stats.

Endless grind gives push to always improve on your most invested and most developed character - this a fact. How people cope with this is different matter, but that feeling is build into this system. For some it is no biggie for others it is pressure to stick to one character because of sunk cost fallacy. Point is not how you or me deal with it but that endless grinds are designed to work that way. This is blatant skinner box, so painfully obvious.

Like or not but changing a spec or even rerolling to a new class was a serious issue before 7.2

No it's not, but you keep doing you and perceiving things in a optional PG13 game as "painful" I suppose.

[Seramore]

Good, Legion ended up being one of the most alt friendly expansions thus far once they figured out how to make AP work.

[Aliven]

No it's not, but you keep doing you and perceiving things in a optional PG13 game as "painful" I suppose.

What rating or options to play or not play a game has anything to do about said game design?

[tyrlaan]

Don't bother, hat guy has been around professing how "everyone he knows" quit the game during X period for as long as I can remember. Legion might not have gone down with some on a personal level, but it's been a critical and financial success, which is not something to sneeze at considering they came from an all-time low in this game's history in terms of goodwill from players and critics.

Gotta love the "Anecdotal evidence and wishful thinking shapes reality!!"-crowd though.

Aye, done wasting my time.

I'm also baffled by these people that have so much bile for the game and Blizzard yet still post here and/or still play. Makes it hard to take seriously any of what such folks say.

[Sorrior]

For me this shift is from "Hey, lets make awesome game, we are good at it" to "How can we trick people into subbing".

Mind you wow is still very polished but now i see things that i would never, ever though blizz would do.

Honestly agreed. If the game is great people will sub WOTHOUT tricks just to enjoy it. If it is mediocre tricks stsrt to get involved

Hell i loved vanilla never unsubbed because the game was that good imo.

Conversely modern wow i can tell it is less a passion project abd far more a paint by the numbers/directed game.

[Aliven]

Aye, done wasting my time.

I'm also baffled by these people that have so much bile for the game and Blizzard yet still post here and/or still play. Makes it hard to take seriously any of what such folks say.

Is posting here prohibited in some way?

[tyrlaan]

Is posting here prohibited in some way?

It's like you invented a different post than what I actually wrote so you could come at me with this silliness.

[Aliven]

It's like you invented a different post than what I actually wrote so you could come at me with this silliness.

In your post you had hard time grasping that somebody could have bile and yet post on mmo-champion forums. Why i ask? Is posting here prohibited?

[tyrlaan]

In your post you had hard time grasping that somebody could have bile and yet post on mmo-champion forums. Why i ask? Is posting here prohibited?

No, see, not understanding why somebody does something is not the same as "that person should not be allowed to do this thing"

I guess I should file this under apparently complex concepts, such as opinions not being the same as facts.

Now, if you actually wanted to ask why I don't understand why someone that hates the game so much would post on forums for the game, then you should have asked that question. Instead you jumped to conclusions, or tried to put words in my mouth, or just didn't understand what I said. I honestly can't tell.