Is ffxiv for casual players?

[Eleccybubb]

I've clearly proven my point with facts instead of just blindly denying something, anyway, another problem that made me left that game you reminded me is the childish behaviour of it's playerbase, but that's OT so i will gladely leave now. I've made pretty clear that the game is not so wonderful as it's fan describes it and it hasn't got any endgame whatsoever.

Ah so we are just going on the "blindly defending" it move now are we? Well was fun while this lasted I guess.

So because I tell you there are actually more raids because you believe only the 8 man one is raiding that makes me defending it? You are entitled to your opinion. Factually however you are wrong and if anything saying there is only one raid would confuse the OP.

Yeah I'll just throw you on ignore now if you are going to pull that card.

And you didn't prove anything. You posted blatant false information about raids in FF14 from your own biased opinion of what raiding should be based on how another game does it.

I stated exactly what raiding content there is in game. But of course I must be defending it because I consider the 24 man raids to be raids because y'know they are listed as "ALLIANCE RAIDS"?

Literally right there in the name but whatever you say.

Newsflash. Some games do it differently. WoW is not a benchmark for what a raid should be. Quite a few games handle their raids differently to WoW and to be honest for some of them it's a breath of fresh air.

Anyway back on topic. OP it's upto you. If you want to come back there's plenty to do outside of raiding. Tomestone gear is more than enough to get you by in this game if you aren't interested in raiding at the highest level.

This game is extremely casual friendly and has quite a bit of focus outside of raiding.

[Christan]

24 mans are considered "Alliance Raids".

8 mans are considered full parties but also for that game raiding. Hell the hardest content is currently 8 man and part of their progression as it requires clearing the current savage raid.

People need to stop using WoWs definition of raiding as the benchmark for every other damn game. Every game has it's own definition.

Saying the 8 man in FF14 is the only raid is an absolute lie. Period.

I mentioned that because they didnt consider 24 mans raids, clearing raid content in a full party is ofc going to be the hardest thing to do, but since 8man is the only option heh.

Even in wow there were one room raids, sartharion ruby sanctum malygos magtheridons, (almost-gruuls) , world dragons in vanilla, etc, as far as im concerned primals are lfr, hm primals are reg/heroic, and savage are so utterly unforgiving that theyre mythic, Raids.

And ofc, its just learning the pattern/dances, that counts for every mmo including wow, learn the dance meaning dodge and stay alive, win dps check, you win fight. In every game.

[Eleccybubb]

I mentioned that because they didnt consider 24 mans raids, clearing raid content in a full party is ofc going to be the hardest thing to do, but since 8man is the only option heh.

Even in wow there were one room raids, sartharion ruby sanctum malygos magtheridons, (almost-gruuls) , world dragons in vanilla, etc, as far as im concerned primals are lfr, hm primals are reg/heroic, and savage are so utterly unforgiving that theyre mythic, Raids.

And ofc, its just learning the pattern/dances, that counts for every mmo including wow, learn the dance meaning dodge and stay alive, win dps check, you win fight. In every game.

As I said some games have their own way of handling raids. I'm quite frankly sick of people who claim because WoW does it one way that other games have to do it the same way. It's poor deflection at best.

Saying 8 man is the only raid because it's the only one meaningful to you is an opinion. Nothing more.

FF14 does it by splitting the single 8 man raid up over even numbered patches with savage modes.

As well as introducing a 24 man raid every odd patch along with an Ultimate fight which is intended for the hardcore/progression crowd. Hell the 24 mans are listed there as "Alliance Raids" so it can't even be debated. Ultimate is essentially supposed to be the reward for clearing Savage. Which Ultimate Coil from what I watched did an amazing job at.

EX Primals can be considered raids imo because raiders use them to get the early advantage on weapons. Doable by all but progression statics will most certainly do it at least 10 times on week 1 to get a weapon for all their members since you cannot get the Tomestone weapon until Week 3 at most as a hardcore player.


@Iamcute

What do you want from the game? How do you want to play it? If you be a bit more specific I will gladly list you the content for your playstyle.

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I joined the game a few months ago, but I am stuck on going through the Realm reborn main story quests. I am halfway through the level 50+ quests of realm reborn with 70 hours played and that was with a 100% xp boost for playing on a certain server so I didn't have to do ANY side quests. I can't imagine having to actually level and do the MSQ without the 100% xp boost.

Shouldn't have any EXP issues since they all require 50.

But it is a slog. There's like 100 quests between post 2.0-2.5. My advice is either rush it or pace yourself.

[Kazgrel]

I hope I do not offend anyone by asking if ffxiv is for casual players, but I have 3 friends who are max level and haven't touched raiding, so i cant really get the whole picture of how many people are doing what.

When i say ''casual'' i mean if people see a point in raiding because the gear there is a lot stronger or in the end is it whatever?

how many people care about raiding? i mean its the 2nd biggest mmorpg right now

how linear is the end game if you ''only'' care about getting better gear and become more powerful? I get the feeling that people spend more time leveling all professions up and classes on 1 toon instead of grinding for pve gear?


Hope anyone can answer this. I played ffxiv at level 50 and i might have done wrong, but i found myself queue for 1-3 things that gave me currency for gear then just not knowing what to do.

If you want the absolute best gear in the game, you have to do savage level raids. No ifs, ands, or buts. It's intended as reward for having cleared the most difficult content in the game at that time, and as of Stormblood, that gear now serves the purpose for Ultimate difficulty fights (of which there is only one thus far).

Due to the loot lockout + weekly tomestone cap (think valor points back in the days of Cata and MoP era WoW), you can only fully deck out one, maybe two classes during a tier's lifespan, so even if people level up all the jobs/classes (like yours truly), you still have to sorta choose a main job to focus on gearing up first and foremost.

The most hardcore of raiders often have an alt character with just their main job leveled for the purpose of alt runs, but that's a fairly rare thing to find in this game. Virtually everyone tends to stick to a single character and level whatever jobs they want on said character.

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Played it for two years straight, endgame is totally non existent, they add like 1 raid per xpac and that's it. The game mostly revolves around making transmog and spending gold on houses, for the rest of time you roleplay and level alt classes. And that's coming from someone who has made all the existing raids the moment they came out and was making progress pretty frequently.

seriously if you are in company of friends have fun with them, but on my experience there's not a single game i regret more playing than this one, it's not even comparable to wow.

This is hilariously inaccurate and I'll just say @Eleccybubb has refuted this aptly, whether you choose to agree or not.

[Vargarii]

Well, the ABSOLUTE best gear in the game is going to come from long hours of grinding eureka, but it also won't become that powerful until many people are done with the final raid tier, so it's kind of meh by then unless you absolutely MUST be bis.

[Zafire]

I've clearly proven my point with facts instead of just blindly denying something, anyway, another problem that made me left that game you reminded me is the childish behaviour of it's playerbase, but that's OT so i will gladely leave now. I've made pretty clear already that the game is not so wonderful as it's fan describes it and it hasn't got any endgame whatsoever.

There are four savage 8-man raids and one extreme Primal raid PER-PATCH. There is one 24-man Alliance raid per-patch. The difficulty of the 8-man raids is FAR greater than the 24-man variants, and the best gear comes from doing them. The 24-man raids reward worse gear than the savage raiding does, too. As a savage raider I can say with great confidence savage content is also MUCH harder than 24-man raids.

The fact you say there is "no endgame" only makes sense if you haven't done any savage/extreme content, so I'm going to assume you haven't. The only difference between Savage raiding in FFXIV and raiding in every other game is there isn't trash in FFXIV raids...And most people would agree trash is a waste of time anyway.

If you think FFXIV raiding is "easy" just look at the number of parses uploaded to fflogs of God Kefka vs number of logs uploaded on Phantom Train.

God Kefka has 627 parses uploaded ( https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/21#boss=55&page=13 )
Phantom Train savage has 2192 parses uploaded ( https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/21#boss=51&page=44 )

This proves that a majority of the playerbase that uploads that has experienced savage content have not beaten God Kefka at this point of the patch. People cleared god kefka on day 2 but people clear mythic raids in WoW the first week too. The average person is not going to blow through everything easily. In fact I believe Ultimate Bahamut last patch wasn't cleared until almost six weeks in. People were complaining it was too hard.

Yes, endgame exists on FFXIV. Don't listen to this guy and his "facts" that aren't actually facts at all. I will be max item level next week while everyone who doesn't raid is going to take another two months. If you don't like savage content, Eureka and 24-man content are available to get good gear from too (as well as a weekly currency, but the weekly currency gear has sub-optimal secondary stats in a lot of pieces). It's actually pretty nice how there are options for every kind of playstyle.

[Eleccybubb]

@Zafire

Just a small correction.

The 24 mans are every odd numbered patch. So 4.1, 4.3 and 4.5 etc

8 player wings in this case Omega are on even numbered patches. 4.0, 4.2 and 4.4.

[Wrecktangle]

You said there was only 1 raid. The misinformation is right there.

Again 3 24 mans. A raid is a raid. You finding it easy doesn't dispute that fact.

1 8 man over usually 3 wings with a second mode.

Ultimate which right now only has one fight and we should get another in 4.3 since it was only introduced for the first time in 4.1. And also requires the current Savage Tier cleared to even enter.

EX Primals which can be considered on par with a Normal raid boss in WoW.

I'm going to pop in here with my opinion.

Dismissing WoW as the raiding benchmark is showing both an unnatural and unsettling degree of bias. It's the undisputed king of the MMO genre and in the even smaller raiding sphere it most certainly holds that title. Therefore it is the benchmark. We don't have to agree on whether its a good game, or bad/better than FF14, that's not the scope of the discussion. So lets not go there.

His argument that there is only 1 raid has some merit. Omega may have 3 wings, but it is functionally one raid containing 12 (more realistically IMO 15 bosses, I actually count the Kefka & ExDeath as bosses) over the course of 2 years.

His point that 24 mans aren't raids is an opinion that I personally agree with. 24 mans are nothing but a zerged snoozefest to me. As such I personally cannot consider them raids because they do not engage me. EX trials and Savage/Ultimate do though. The game may call these raids, but that doesn't mean they fit into what is considered raiding by the "raiding community". I don't consider LFR in WoW a raid either (even though it has RAIDING in the title). This is a sentiment that a majority of the "raiding community" would likely agree on.

If they offered an 8 man version of the 24 mans I'd 100% be on your side (and have long wished they did that to add more midcore content).

[Eleccybubb]

-snip-

And you are entitled to your opinion as he is. Never said anyone wasn't. As long as you respect that what you are posting is purely opinionated.

And yes I will dismiss WoW. Sick of hearing how games have to be like WoW when it comes to raiding. God forbid some other games try it differently or to be their own game for a change. And nobody here is trying to say which game is better. Only you decided to come in with that comment. So yes let's leave it there where you started.

There is no merit whatsoever. Blatantly saying there is one raid because you don't find the others difficulty/meaningful/engaging is flat out misinformation and lying to players who might want to get into the game. Feel free to tell them that as your opinion but at least be honest and tell them what the other raiding content is and let them decide for themselves what they think of it.

Now difficult content you would be looking at Savage Raiding and Ultimate. That to you judging by your post of course would be considered engaging I guess but that's just my opinion. And that is your raiding content. Different people play the game. Neither you or I know if anyone enjoys/finds the 24 mans meaningful.

So again at least 4 proper raids over the course of an expansion with at least 5-6 mini ones. Plus at least 3 Ultimate fights this expansion.

I'm not asking anyone to be on my side either. This isn't a schoolyard. I'm clearing up misinformation posted by a biased opinion based on someones personal definition of what raiding should be. Which they are entitled to of course. Wouldn't ever say they weren't.

And no don't pull the "what the raiding community" thinks card because I doubt you do unless you polled the entire raiding community of FF14. You do not speak for anyone else here but yourself. A raid is a raid. Whether it engages you or not. 24 mans don't really engage me either. Doesn't stop them from being a raid. And again don't deflect to WoW. We aren't here to discuss LFR.

If any new player asks me what raids there are right now I'd say there are 8 man raids, 24 man raids and an 8 man Trial which is more like a mini raid boss. Because that is the truth. Along with an Ultimate raid which is intended for those that have cleared the 8 man on Savage. I'm not going to tell them 24 man isn't a raid because I don't find it engaging. I'll tell them it is a raid however I didn't think much of them.

Stormblood if it follows the same trend as other expansions should end with.

3 8 man raid wings with Savage modes.

3 Ultimate raids which would require the current 8 man raid wings Savage mode completed.

At least 7-8 EX Primals. Not sure how they will handle all 4 lords yet. Minor speculation here.

3 24 man Alliance raids.

[lawow74]

Have to agree with Wreck, WoW IS the benchmark by which all MMO's and their content are judged. It wasn't a first-round pick into the Video Game Hall of Fame for nothing.

I feel that they're right in saying the 8-man and 24-man raids are basically a single raid with multiple wings as they're all chapters to a single book, same as the previous raids were. There's not enough distinction between the parts to consider them truly separate.

However, I do agree that the EX Trials are essentially mini-raids. Just as I also consider the 24-mans raids, as it's the style of the content, not the difficulty, that defines it.

[Eleccybubb]

Have to agree with Wreck, WoW IS the benchmark by which all MMO's and their content are judged. It wasn't a first-round pick into the Video Game Hall of Fame for nothing.

I feel that they're right in saying the 8-man and 24-man raids are basically a single raid with multiple wings as they're all chapters to a single book, same as the previous raids were. There's not enough distinction between the parts to consider them truly separate.

However, I do agree that the EX Trials are essentially mini-raids. Just as I also consider the 24-mans raids, as it's the style of the content, not the difficulty, that defines it.

And I disagree.

WoW might be the big MMO out there but not every MMO has styled itself exactly like it.

And no an MMO should be judged by it's own content and how it's own game are handled. It can be compared to other games but that's it. Yes it's impressive that it's in the Video Game Hall of Fame but at the end of the day compare. Not say because WoW does it's raiding like this that all other games should adhere to that.

I'd rather a game try something different than be totally like WoW. Sure it might not always work but the effort/attempt is a breath of fresh air.

Also not enough distinction?

Heavensward we literally went from a flying airship to a huge city to a floating island.

A Realm Reborn we went from a Labyrinth to the huge tower above it into a completely different world.

I'd say there is plenty of distinction to count them as a separate raid each. 3 raids of one story arc. ARR being Crystal Tower and Heavensward being the Shadow of Mhach.

I get where you are both coming from though. In your opinions the 24 mans don't engage you therefore they aren't raids. Fair opinion not denying it. They don't really engage me either. But as I said if a new player asked me what raids were in the game I'd list them as I have and let them decide for themselves as well. Another player might find the 24 mans engaging at the end of the day.

Not trying to call you or Wreck outright wrong here or say your opinions are wrong hehe. I'd never do that. Will admit my debating is getting a bit fierce but well if you don't at least put some gusto into your debate what is the point eh?

[Wrecktangle]

And you are entitled to your opinion as he is. Never said anyone wasn't. As long as you respect that what you are posting is purely opinionated.

Which is evident that I am ok with it. I very specifically use words such as "personally" and "IMO", etc.

And yes I will dismiss WoW. Sick of hearing how games have to be like WoW when it comes to raiding. God forbid some other games try it differently or to be their own game for a change. And nobody here is trying to say which game is better. Only you decided to come in with that comment. So yes let's leave it there where you started.

I'm 100% ok with games carving out their own niche for raiding. In fact I even encourage it. However, I'm not so naive to be able to say that some games do it better than their peers, and some do partial aspects of it better than their peers. The only reason I mentioned better/worse was merely to set the tone that I didn't want to discuss that. I in no way shape or form took a side or went down that path.

There is no merit whatsoever. Blatantly saying there is one raid because you don't find the others difficulty/meaningful/engaging is flat out misinformation and lying to players who might want to get into the game. Feel free to tell them that as your opinion but at least be honest and tell them what the other raiding content is and let them decide for themselves what they think of it.

Let's remove 24 mans real quick because I think you're misunderstanding. I'm saying that Omega is one raid. In that Alex was one raid, and that Coil was one raid. It was one central core theme and tileset.

It's clear that 24 mans are their own entities because even though they generally have a similar theme, they have different tilesets/locales.

What I said was that I do not PERSONALLY consider them raiding content. That is not misinformation. That is my opinion based on my personal beliefs. I further substantiated that claim with insight and examples.

And no don't pull the "what the raiding community" thinks card because I doubt you do unless you polled the entire raiding community of FF14. You do not speak for anyone else here but yourself. A raid is a raid. Whether it engages you or not. 24 mans don't really engage me either. Doesn't stop them from being a raid. And again don't deflect to WoW. We aren't here to discuss LFR.

First we'd need to define "raiding community" to have any meaningful discussion here. So I'll ask you for yours:

In the interim - here is mine: Someone who participates in Savage raiding and either clears relevant tiers or progresses generally to the final boss. That's the blanket definition there are obviously outliers. If you only ever cleared Alte Roite & Phantom Train, you would not clarify based on my definition. Dabbling is not being a member of the community, but you don't need to be the best player either to be a part of it (i.e. cleared).

I can say with pretty resolute confidence that if I asked players that fit into my mold that they'd probably tell you that LFR from WoW and Normal mode/24 mans from FF14 would not qualify and likely the reason being that they are not challenging/engaging. I mean hell, experienced raiders hardly consider Omega raiding these days. I draw this conclusion based on years of raiding at very high levels in multiple MMO's, being a part of the each community, Balance Discord, EJ, content creation, etc as well as countless discussions with likeminded players.

You're more than welcome to refute my experience with your own personal examples and insight, but nothing I've said is misinformation.

If any new player asks me what raids there are right now I'd say there are 8 man raids, 24 man raids and an 8 man Trial which is more like a mini raid boss. Because that is the truth. Along with an Ultimate raid which is intended for those that have cleared the 8 man on Savage. I'm not going to tell them 24 man isn't a raid because I don't find it engaging. I'll tell them it is a raid however I didn't think much of them.

Just so you know. I didn't bother responding to the OP because others handled it just fine. However, for some insight into other posts where I have see these:

1) https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post47122902

2) https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post48676132

3) https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post47407539

[Eleccybubb]

@Wrecktangle

(Just doing an @ so it's easier on me hehe)

The thing is I used to do it in WoW as well. Higher end. Not even sure what happened to that account anymore since I kinda gave it up in MoP because of some.... let's say personal ingame issues.

At the end of the day the voips, sites and forums I were around either said they didn't care what others did or that they consider any form of raiding a raid even LFR. At the end of the day I think we just have to accept we have two differing views on it based on our experience with other people.

For me raiding is a large/medium-small group of people working together to take down a boss. Regardless of the difficulty. A raid is a raid at the end of the day.

I don't think you have to clear the current hardest raid at all to be considered a member of the raiding community. I think if you can form a well thought and constructive opinion on the matter you are entitled to one on raiding and welcome in the community in my book. A community isn't just about seeing the content but also discussing, theorycrafting, doing guides and whatnot.

However I agree. The 8 man is one raid but with 3 wings released on even patches. Would never dispute that. Even I said it's one raid basically in earlier posts. It's just split across the expansion rather than all released at once.

And yes as long as you accept that what you posted is an opinion which you did of course I have no issues. . I just meant there are people who try to enforce it as fact so that can confuse new players. There's different types of players so what they consider raiding may differ to another.

However as I said if people asked me what raids there were in the game both hardcore and casual stuff I'd respond with what I listed. All I can do from there is let them decide what they think of them.

As for your insight. I believe it's constructive and well thought out. Personally I'm not the best at presenting my opinion sometimes or insight but I'll always try.

[lawow74]

Alright, I can concede the 24-mans being more distinct to be considered separate raids (and to clarify, I DO consider them raids). However, on the point of WoW as the benchmark, I feel that stands because if you say your game has x type of content (i.e. raids) it will be judged alongside every other game which says it has that type of content. Same with PvP, Dungeons, Crafting, Gathering and so forth.

That may not always be a fair comparison (Guild Wars 2 is a very different kind of game in many respects from WoW or FF14, for example) but people will still judge by general categories regardless.

[Eleccybubb]

Alright, I can concede the 24-mans being more distinct to be considered separate raids (and to clarify, I DO consider them raids). However, on the point of WoW as the benchmark, I feel that stands because if you say your game has x type of content (i.e. raids) it will be judged alongside every other game which says it has that type of content. Same with PvP, Dungeons, Crafting, Gathering and so forth.

That may not always be a fair comparison (Guild Wars 2 is a very different kind of game in many respects from WoW or FF14, for example) but people will still judge by general categories regardless.

I don't mind a fair comparison.

Just a bit boring when some people (not you or Wreck) say that because WoW does it like this then "Game B" should. If you get what I mean?

[lawow74]

I don't mind a fair comparison.

Just a bit boring when some people (not you or Wreck) say that because WoW does it like this then "Game B" should. If you get what I mean?

Understandable. I think about how Star Wars Galaxies was gutted back in the day to make it more like WoW on that exact presumption. I knew a number of people who played it and talked about how horrible it was after.

[Blamblam41]

That was actually more to address things Eleccybubb sayed but didn't clear up, the main point is that the game is not hard so you end quickly its raids ecc.. ecc.. but you have nothing to do after. Seriously, it's all roleplay and transmog.

Funnily enough this is exactly why I quit WoW and joined FFXIV. The whole "you have nothing to do after" is a pretty cute line until you remember the 12-16 month content droughts Blizzard stuffs your dick into.

Not to mention, WoW isn't fucking hard. Mythic raids can, have and continue to be cleared by casuals. There's plenty of things to do though in XIV, far beyond just roleplay and transmog, especially for a casual player. Shit, half the transmogs in the game you actually have to play the game to get, it's far more of a reward for doing the content than the content you're talking about doing.Much like another MMO I know that likes to gate flying in much similar methods and reasons.

You know what ends quickly though? MoPs endgame, WoDs endgame and Legions endgame. They were all shitty in their own unique ways, MoP's probably being the most tolerable. So yeah, I will take the game that has better gameplay, better story, better transmogs, better reward structures and just a better experience in general for casual players. Not to mention the only competitor Blizzard actually takes seriously.

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Understandable. I think about how Star Wars Galaxies was gutted back in the day to make it more like WoW on that exact presumption. I knew a number of people who played it and talked about how horrible it was after.

I think the absolutely unhealthy focus on raiding is what killed World of Warcraft's community.

FFXIV is doing fine.

[Wrecktangle]

I don't think you have to clear the current hardest raid at all to be considered a member of the raiding community. I think if you can form a well thought and constructive opinion on the matter you are entitled to one on raiding and welcome in the community in my book. A community isn't just about seeing the content but also discussing, theorycrafting, doing guides and whatnot.

If I didn't quote it, we're on the same page!

This piece though I wanted to clarify. I don't think you HAVE to clear current raid to be considered. I merely said it's a guarantee. If you clear the current raid, or at least progress to the current final boss you're automatically in the community.

I will always support and defend the idea that an outsider can provide incredibly valuable and well-reasoned analysis by not even being a member of the community. In fact, I took a lot of heat on the OF for this exact philosophy regarding UCoB. People said that I wasn't allowed to comment on it because I haven't done it, instantly invalidating any feedback regardless of its validity, which is a stance I do not support.

I don't mind a fair comparison.

Just a bit boring when some people (not you or Wreck) say that because WoW does it like this then "Game B" should. If you get what I mean?

Agreed. I don't care for absolute statements or statements with no actual insight. I.e. you're 100% welcome to say FF14 should be like WoW because XYZ reason. Because that allows other posters to analyze your reasoning, understand your POV and comment on that. When people don't provide that it feels like absolutes being stated, which tends to ruffle feathers.

Not to mention, WoW isn't fucking hard. Mythic raids can, have and continue to be cleared by casuals. There's plenty of things to do though in XIV, far beyond just roleplay and transmog, especially for a casual player. Shit, half the transmogs in the game you actually have to play the game to get, it's far more of a reward for doing the content than the content you're talking about doing.Much like another MMO I know that likes to gate flying in much similar methods and reasons.

Did anyone say WoW was hard? What is the purpose of mentioning this? Are you somehow implying that Savage is hard? Or harder than Mythic?

As far as "plenty of things to do", I'd be curious to see if you could list them. Not from an objective standpoint, but from a personal one. What are things you LIKE to do in FF14.

For me, the only things I enjoy are the MSQ, EX's, and Savage. PotD is boring, dungeons, and 24 mans are boring. PVP is dreadful, and side content is downright criminal when compared to the source material.

You know what ends quickly though? MoPs endgame, WoDs endgame and Legions endgame. They were all shitty in their own unique ways, MoP's probably being the most tolerable. So yeah, I will take the game that has better gameplay, better story, better transmogs, better reward structures and just a better experience in general for casual players. Not to mention the only competitor Blizzard actually takes seriously.

I think the absolutely unhealthy focus on raiding is what killed World of Warcraft's community.

FFXIV is doing fine.

I mean, FF14 has an incredibly low player retention rate just like WoW does and sure both games are doing fine, I hardly think you have any data to suggest that WoW's community is "killed". If so I'd love to see it. I've never had issues finding guilds to raid with, pugs to run high mythic + keys with, etc.

As far as end games go, Mythic + did more for WoW than every piece of content FF14 has put out this expansion so far. SB has nothing that is repeatable and engaging and scales based on both your gear and skill level while offering meaningful rewards.

You state that FF14 has better gameplay and reward structures. I agree on the other pieces so no need to debate those, BUT I'd really love to have you actually defend this statement. Why do you believe it has better gameplay? In what ways are the reward structures better?

Go into detail.

[Eleccybubb]

I wouldn't say the reward structure is better. It's just basically the same as Cataclysms when we talk about currency. Not a bad one but most certainly nothing impressive.

Other than that it's just the usual boss drops we've become so accustomed to over the years.

[Trensharo]

I tried this game for a bit (got 3 Jobs to 70 and 2 to 60), and I think the end game is barren, as well.

There is also nothing like Mythic+ for Groups, so the "Raids" (boss fights?) are basically what end-game PvE is all about. I didn't find them that engaging, and the way you randomly get hit unless you move very early out of everything (due to lag or C\S position mismatch) was annoying as hell to me. This is the only game where I've felt this.

Gameplay feels like EverQuest (not EQ2, the original) due to the long cast times and GCD. Graphics do look good. Music is good, but I did find myself playing with a Headset plugged in - but not worn :-P - often, because it can get a bit repetitive. Had to turn off the Chocobo music within an hour. Nearly drove me insane.

Interesting class designed, but I hate they way they implemented pet classes. Different classes have such ridiculous disparities in skill caps and performance... Compare Red Mage and Summoner, for example.

Queue times can be murder for DPS. A lot of people seem to pick their class based on these factors. Speaking of which, their system of being able to level every job on the same toon is AMAZEBALLS.

Probably the single best thing about this game, and probably the best feature of any game in this genre, IMO.

I do think the Story is not a great thing, because of the way they have tied leveling/progression to it. Once you get to your 2nd or 3rd job... You're probably going to be reliant on PotD to level to 60 from earlier and earlier levels... And nothing puts you to sleep faster than that!