BFA Affliction

[Aggrophobic]

This is the second question you haven't answered. yes destro and demo is better, but it doesnt answer if affliction is viable, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Also what does scaling have to do with anything? they both scale the same. the damage will ALWAYS be proportional. whether the damage is 890 or 8900, it will scale proportional to DL. youll be losing damage worth 2 SB. 2 SB for 38% of your health is a large sum of health. over a 5 min fight. lets say you use it once every minute (something most likely to not happen). even then it wouldnt drop your dps by much. stop spouting nonsense about things being nonviable. Drain life is very viable, the spec is just utterly boring.

So? A 10%-15% drop in damage is enough to make it something you won't use. Simple as that.

- - - Updated - - -

People have more than 1 class @ max level nowadays.

But I guess if that's all you have to say....


"significant"? no... it's still better than what other classes can do. It's not even "significant" at all.
It's quite obvious that you have no idea how to use that heal and when you should use it and why it's superior to what other classes have in that regard.

And I have no idea why you think downplaying that by comparing it to the other 2 warlock specs which do also have over-the-top self sustain makes affli's life regen look less good. (not that it's true anyway)

But it's not and it also requires you to give up DPS, meaning it just won't be used. It's pointless.

[garonne]

So? A 10%-15% drop in damage is enough to make it something you won't use. Simple as that.

.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about so I'm gonna end the convo here. But just so you know, you're gonna get about 70-80 sb over a 4-5 min fight and it's gonna be around 12-20% of your damage. At worst (and I'm being generous) you're losing 3.5% of your damage. If you have to heal yourself that often you need a better healer or youre standing in stuff and if you can't get a better healer this would be a godsend to only loose 3.5% of your damage to what could amount to almost 2 health bars.

Please stop misleading ppl.

[Aggrophobic]

You clearly don't know what you're talking about so I'm gonna end the convo here. But just so you know, you're gonna get about 70-80 sb over a 4-5 min fight and it's gonna be around 12-20% of your damage. At worst (and I'm being generous) you're losing 3.5% of your damage. If you have to heal yourself that often you need a better healer or youre standing in stuff and if you can't get a better healer this would be a godsend to only loose 3.5% of your damage to what could amount to almost 2 health bars.

Please stop misleading ppl.

You clearly have not tried BfA yet, stop being silly.

[Deleted]

You clearly have not tried BfA yet, stop being silly.

Do you somehow assume you are not using SB if you use drain life a few times during a fight or something? DL is utility and should be used accordingly, not as a main dps skill.
Every single person who has even the slightest clue about how to play this game will sacrifice any amount of damage if it means he'll be able to survive stuff. If you drop below a certain %HP threshhold, you should *always* consider survival over dps. And Affliction is lucky enough to actually be able to do that, unlike other specs.

You also don't have to use the whole duration if you think or now a heal is comming soon and additional damage taken is unlikely.
If you suffer damage from a debuff and you see your healthbar dropping, you better freaking use your DL and other skills until a healer got you... or you are just a horrible player.

once more, the MM-hunter alternative to Affliction's DoT damage + DL is Turtle - which is 0 dmg done during that time. You'll at least get to do ~80% and can do it as often as you want and need.

[garonne]

Don't waste your time explaining. @KrayZee

[Aggrophobic]

Do you somehow assume you are not using SB if you use drain life a few times during a fight or something? DL is utility and should be used accordingly, not as a main dps skill.
Every single person who has even the slightest clue about how to play this game will sacrifice any amount of damage if it means he'll be able to survive stuff. If you drop below a certain %HP threshhold, you should *always* consider survival over dps. And Affliction is lucky enough to actually be able to do that, unlike other specs.

You also don't have to use the whole duration if you think or now a heal is comming soon and additional damage taken is unlikely.
If you suffer damage from a debuff and you see your healthbar dropping, you better freaking use your DL and other skills until a healer got you... or you are just a horrible player.

once more, the MM-hunter alternative to Affliction's DoT damage + DL is Turtle - which is 0 dmg done during that time. You'll at least get to do ~80% and can do it as often as you want and need.

Sure, of course. A dead DPS does no damage. When other classes take less damage or heal more while doing more damage though, it's an issue. Also, the heal is really slow so the situations where this is going to be really usefull are few and far between.

[Keltas]

Sure, of course. A dead DPS does no damage. When other classes take less damage or heal more while doing more damage though, it's an issue. Also, the heal is really slow so the situations where this is going to be really usefull are few and far between.

Other ranged take less and heal more than warlocks?

Are you smoking soulstones or something?

Shamans, druids, and spriest all have less baseline EHP, and all of them have to hardcast heals that do practically nothing and take gcds.

Mages have barriers that take a gcd and only absorb so much. They admittedly have Iceblock instead of a dmg reduction, but they have no healing at all. (also deal no dmg when it's up).

Hunters are the only ones that could be considered "better" and only because exhilaration is instant. I haven't tried to see if it's on gcd now, but it's a pretty good instant heal. As pointed out to you though, they have the whole "can't dps while in turtle" problem on their major defensive.


Affliction isn't in a bad spot defensively, in fact it's finally somewhat close to us mortal specs, and if you think hitting drain life once or twice in a fight makes you worse than a shaman or spriest then you should reroll and see how good they have it.

[Aggrophobic]

Other ranged take less and heal more than warlocks?

Are you smoking soulstones or something?

Shamans, druids, and spriest all have less baseline EHP, and all of them have to hardcast heals that do practically nothing and take gcds.

Mages have barriers that take a gcd and only absorb so much. They admittedly have Iceblock instead of a dmg reduction, but they have no healing at all. (also deal no dmg when it's up).

Hunters are the only ones that could be considered "better" and only because exhilaration is instant. I haven't tried to see if it's on gcd now, but it's a pretty good instant heal. As pointed out to you though, they have the whole "can't dps while in turtle" problem on their major defensive.


Affliction isn't in a bad spot defensively, in fact it's finally somewhat close to us mortal specs, and if you think hitting drain life once or twice in a fight makes you worse than a shaman or spriest then you should reroll and see how good they have it.

I'm not even maining a warlock atm though. I mained a warrior and a mage this expansion. Warlock in the alpha is absolutely garbage however. There is just no way around that.

[Keltas]

I'm not even maining a warlock atm though. I mained a warrior and a mage this expansion. Warlock in the alpha is absolutely garbage however. There is just no way around that.

Affliction is garbage damage wise sure (it's definitely lacking in a lot of those departments), but it does not lack in the self healing and defensive department.

[Aggrophobic]

Affliction is garbage damage wise sure (it's definitely lacking in a lot of those departments), but it does not lack in the self healing and defensive department.

It is, compared to live and it does in no way outweigh the negative sides affliction warlock has. It's also the weakest of the 3 specs and that was the original point of this offtopic discussion.

[Lucrece]

Other ranged take less and heal more than warlocks?

Are you smoking soulstones or something?

Shamans, druids, and spriest all have less baseline EHP, and all of them have to hardcast heals that do practically nothing and take gcds.

Mages have barriers that take a gcd and only absorb so much. They admittedly have Iceblock instead of a dmg reduction, but they have no healing at all. (also deal no dmg when it's up).

Hunters are the only ones that could be considered "better" and only because exhilaration is instant. I haven't tried to see if it's on gcd now, but it's a pretty good instant heal. As pointed out to you though, they have the whole "can't dps while in turtle" problem on their major defensive.


Affliction isn't in a bad spot defensively, in fact it's finally somewhat close to us mortal specs, and if you think hitting drain life once or twice in a fight makes you worse than a shaman or spriest then you should reroll and see how good they have it.

You don't know how ice block or turtle is used. You immediately use the immunity to soak a hit and have a cancelaura macro on it to remove it after the hit lands. People don't just sit on an ice block or turtle failing to do DPS for their duration.

As effective defensives, they are a world beyond what warlock has and the reason why these classes get stacked while there was only a single afflock on world first mythic Argus.

Survival is binary anyways. You only need what's going to keep you alive from what otherwise would kill you. Considering healers are balanced around being able to keep a raid alive themselves, warlock self-healing is a moderate perk at best as the mages and hunters and shadow priests aren't falling over dead for not having soul leech or drain life.

And on top said mages/hunters have immensely more mobility as well.

This whole " I can't move for shit but I can now sacrifice DPS for a strong heal in exchange for no immunities or mobility" is by far a bad deal for warlock.

[Feuerbart]

It is, compared to live and it does in no way outweigh the negative sides affliction warlock has. It's also the weakest of the 3 specs and that was the original point of this offtopic discussion.

Compared to live is a joke. Warlock self sustain on life is the biggest joke ever. I keep standing in the storm on coven mythic. That´s how over the top affli self sustain is right now. Warlocks can ignore almost half of the mechanics in mythic at the moment. That is never good. I love my lock an will keep playing it (even when alpha feels boring compared to live) but we are tooo good right now. That had to change. And self sustain with dots and DL is still very good. As has been mentioned you sacrifice some damage to keep on dealing damage at all. Staying alive as a DPS is not the job of the healers alone.

[Aggrophobic]

Compared to live is a joke. Warlock self sustain on life is the biggest joke ever. I keep standing in the storm on coven mythic. That´s how over the top affli self sustain is right now. Warlocks can ignore almost half of the mechanics in mythic at the moment. That is never good. I love my lock an will keep playing it (even when alpha feels boring compared to live) but we are tooo good right now. That had to change. And self sustain with dots and DL is still very good. As has been mentioned you sacrifice some damage to keep on dealing damage at all. Staying alive as a DPS is not the job of the healers alone.

That not true at all. Unless you outgear the raid of course but at this point, who cares? The current tier was over a long time ago.

[asil]

That not true at all. Unless you outgear the raid of course but at this point, who cares? The current tier was over a long time ago.

I mean, it isn't true, but these people love to come here and outright lie about what aff can and can't do in mythic.

The sustain is strong, but you sure as hell can't ignore mythic mechanics for the most part, at least most of them.

[Deleted]

Yeah I said good rogues are the only once that can cause us trouble. Experience will help you alot.
VS rogues, when he open on you, if he poped cooldowns you gotta use unending resolve. If he blinds you, when he re-opens on you, you use casting circle and start casting. (you always have death coil + fear combo to get 3UAs on him). He should have used cloak to vanish.
If he casts cloak while fighting you, start summoning your Succubus, then 1 sec before the end of his cloak, start casting fear.

That is the problem. What kind of server are you playing on? What you are talking about is NOT a good rogue, that is standard rogue. A GOOD rogue kills you in the opener. Before you can even cast a single thing. A good DK (no wait, any DK that is NOT retarded) will pull you out of the circle and continue`s to stun/interupt you to death. No seriously, if a prot warrior spots you he will come charging at you to knock you the fuck back. Again, out of the circle.

Only retarded people let a warlock stand in his little circle and you proclaim affliction is tanky as shit. Really.

[asil]

You don't know how ice block or turtle is used. You immediately use the immunity to soak a hit and have a cancelaura macro on it to remove it after the hit lands. People don't just sit on an ice block or turtle failing to do DPS for their duration.

As effective defensives, they are a world beyond what warlock has and the reason why these classes get stacked while there was only a single afflock on world first mythic Argus.

Survival is binary anyways. You only need what's going to keep you alive from what otherwise would kill you. Considering healers are balanced around being able to keep a raid alive themselves, warlock self-healing is a moderate perk at best as the mages and hunters and shadow priests aren't falling over dead for not having soul leech or drain life.

And on top said mages/hunters have immensely more mobility as well.

This whole " I can't move for shit but I can now sacrifice DPS for a strong heal in exchange for no immunities or mobility" is by far a bad deal for warlock.

I mean, I feel like the fact destro/demo are more popular on argus says a lot, considering affliction has a fairly powerful execute and executes are extremely valuable on that fight, and yet people still view the other specs as better.

I don't think affliction is bad or anything, it's clearly one of the best overall dps specs in the game - but the fact people seem to think affliction survivability in pve is even relevant or should be talked about is bizare to me.

It's made even worse by the people that come here and outright lie/repeat bullshit about how aff can "ignore mythic mechanics."

Like they're very clearly being posted by people that do not raid mythic or have at best killed a few entry level bosses. As you said, with healing the way it is, affliction healing isn't a big deal or even relevant.

When I think of reasons why affliction is a strong spec - "I can do a lot of overhealing" is at the bottom of the list.

[lummiuster]

That is the problem. What kind of server are you playing on? What you are talking about is NOT a good rogue, that is standard rogue. A GOOD rogue kills you in the opener. Before you can even cast a single thing. A good DK (no wait, any DK that is NOT retarded) will pull you out of the circle and continue`s to stun/interupt you to death. No seriously, if a prot warrior spots you he will come charging at you to knock you the fuck back. Again, out of the circle.

Only retarded people let a warlock stand in his little circle and you proclaim affliction is tanky as shit. Really.

Every warrior have the same charge cooldown (without talent). Some warriors complain they they can never touch their target while others claim they are always on them... You are like the warriors who claim they can never touch their target. Learn to use your spell properly and youll see how things can be different.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure you could find a thread like this before legion went live and we all know how that turned out.

[Deleted]

Every warrior have the same charge cooldown (without talent). Some warriors complain they they can never touch their target while others claim they are always on them... You are like the warriors who claim they can never touch their target. Learn to use your spell properly and youll see how things can be different.

You keep fighting absolute morons apparently. How else can you even think like this? Melee in legion have more tools to sit on casters than casters have tools to get away or prevent it. It`s that simple. If you can beat a melee, he/she is less skilled/less geared than you. Or you happen to catch one that spend all their cooldowns prior to engaging you. My thought is that you look at it through a rose colored goggle tho.

[Lucrece]

You keep fighting absolute morons apparently. How else can you even think like this? Melee in legion have more tools to sit on casters than casters have tools to get away or prevent it. It`s that simple. If you can beat a melee, he/she is less skilled/less geared than you. Or you happen to catch one that spend all their cooldowns prior to engaging you. My thought is that you look at it through a rose colored goggle tho.

Only melee that one can pretty much kite is DK, that's it. The rest of the melee can sit on you all day and blow you up through cd's and stuns.

Legion has really made pvp World of Mongocraft. "Oh, I mispositioned as a ret pally? No worries I got an autotrigger divine shield at low health and my own regular one just for good measure to save myself while every other caster that's not a mage gets pummeled to death".