1. #1
    The Lightbringer Steampunkette's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    I come from the land of Ice and Snow.
    Posts
    3,997

    A method to change Heroic Class Gating.

    The heroic classes that we have in the game, currently, are Death Knights and Demon Hunters. Both were very important to the lore of the expansion within which they were contained, but any new character created as a member of either of these classes is, in turn, tied to the lore of the expansion within which they were created. As a Demon Hunter you trained directly under Illidan in the Black Temple some number of years ago, got frozen in a Warden Crystal, and eventually broke free to destroy the Burning Legion by ending the threat of Sargeras himself by shutting his ass down at the Seat of the Pantheon. Yay.

    But when BFA launches: What the hell is a Demon Hunter supposed to do? After Cataclysm, Death Knights became largely irrelevant to the story, and the further creation of new Death Knights became impossible since Arthas was dead.

    But. Now we've got the Order Halls. We've got independent bodies of unaligned people who have the power or knowledge to complete the task of creating or training new members of their class without tying it to specific expansion content. So why not -do- it?

    We could have the Illidari fracture on the Kayn/Altruis line, with each of those companions leaving the Slayer to manage the Illidari and breaking off to form new schools of Demon Hunters for the Alliance and the Horde. These two could be seeking to build their own orders of Felslayers to continue fighting against the Demons who, while no longer lead by Sargeras, still pose a threat simply by their exorbitant numbers and chaotic nature.

    Similarly, with Bolvar becoming active again through Legion, moving forward we could have Koltira and Thassarian working toward the creation of new Death Knights, possible against each other's faction-based interests since we know they're capable of making new Death Knights (By work-order, or quest-power!). Rather than being people slain in battle raised from the dead, these new Death Knights could be willing to die for their power, and drink some tonic to die and be raised.

    In this way we could both lower the level of their respective classes (Say, to level 20) to allow allied races access to these classes at some time in the future, and create an "Evergreen" method of becoming a Demon Hunter or Death Knight rather than either choice being locked to the specific expansion content they were released for. Win/Win!

    And, since we've got the Level Boost method in place, the best part is that players of races normally -allowed- to be members of those Hero Classes as tied to the previous content could still start at level 55 or level 98 and go through the Expansion-Specific content. So if Void Elves could become demon hunters they'd only be able to choose the level 20 Demon Hunter starting experience, but a Blood Elf would be able to choose between the level 20 and the level 98 experience. This preserves the Lore of the older content and gives players more options for what races to be members of different Hero Classes.

    I shall now accept the heaping of praise/scorn as your particular post prescribes.
    When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like injustice.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk OreoLover's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Irvine-to-Anaheim, California
    Posts
    1,837
    Ain't broke don't fix it?

    Seems silly to negate the work put into those starting areas completely, for... different starting experiences?
    Not enough content? Change you dislike?
    Unsub or sub later. Give Blizzard feedback, "vote" with money.
    Give feedback through official channels → quit paying.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Steampunkette's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    I come from the land of Ice and Snow.
    Posts
    3,997
    Quote Originally Posted by OreoLover View Post
    Ain't broke don't fix it?

    Seems silly to negate the work put into those starting areas completely, for... different starting experiences?
    Did you miss the part where the original starting experience would still be an option? It's in the last paragraph before the standalone line.

    Basically use the "Level Boost" tech (Where you can test out a level 100) to add a third option for Hero Classes "Level 20" "Level XX" and "Level XXX" where XX is 58 and 98 for DKs and DHs respectively, and XXX is the current "Level 100" or 110 or 120 or whatever the current level-boost level is. So they can keep their starting areas for people who want to start out higher, or start at level 20 without their story being tied to a specific expansion.
    When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like injustice.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk OreoLover's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Irvine-to-Anaheim, California
    Posts
    1,837
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    Did you miss the part where the original starting experience would still be an option? It's in the last paragraph before the standalone line.

    Basically use the "Level Boost" tech (Where you can test out a level 100) to add a third option for Hero Classes "Level 20" "Level XX" and "Level XXX" where XX is 58 and 98 for DKs and DHs respectively, and XXX is the current "Level 100" or 110 or 120 or whatever the current level-boost level is. So they can keep their starting areas for people who want to start out higher, or start at level 20 without their story being tied to a specific expansion.
    Did you miss the part where it's work for, what?

    Story being tied isn't necessarily a problem, certainly isn't a priority of any level.
    Not enough content? Change you dislike?
    Unsub or sub later. Give Blizzard feedback, "vote" with money.
    Give feedback through official channels → quit paying.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Steampunkette's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    I come from the land of Ice and Snow.
    Posts
    3,997
    Quote Originally Posted by OreoLover View Post
    Did you miss the part where it's work for, what?

    Story being tied isn't necessarily a problem, certainly isn't a priority of any level.
    Oh, I'm not suggesting it's a priority. Just that this would be a way to break out of the older content, particularly as the world gets more and more High Def, going back to the untouched older zones is going to become more and more of a stark eyesore.

    However, Hazzikostas did outline it as a problem during the Finalboss interview after Blizzcon'17:

    Q: Currently no allied races can be Death Knights. Are there any plans to change this?
    A: Because the experience with allied races begins at 20 and hero classes (DK’s and DH’s start out at a much higher level) it does present a hurdle that will need to be overcome.
    When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like injustice.

  6. #6
    Similarly, with Bolvar becoming active again through Legion, moving forward we could have Koltira and Thassarian working toward the creation of new Death Knights, possible against each other's faction-based interests since we know they're capable of making new Death Knights (By work-order, or quest-power!). Rather than being people slain in battle raised from the dead, these new Death Knights could be willing to die for their power, and drink some tonic to die and be raised.
    While i am understand you, i can't be sure if we REALLY raised more DK during legion except our 4 horsemen. The work order can be purely for resource sink so we will have similar expirience with other classes, of this can be same amout of DK, and we waste resources to repair their equipment, heal wounds and etc. No no i remember Korgaz words, but i still in doubt cause there is no more confirmation about it (as i said many times we already walked the knife blade with horsemen, raising more solders could be... dangerous, it's a curse after all not some "gift").
    Last edited by Zorish; 2018-03-20 at 02:52 PM.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Steampunkette's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    I come from the land of Ice and Snow.
    Posts
    3,997
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    While i am understand you, i can't be sure if we REALLY raised more DK during legion except our 4 horsemen. The work order can be purely for resource sink so we will have similar expirience with other classes, of this can be same amout of DK, and we waste resources to repair their equipment, heal wounds and etc. No no i remember Korgaz words, but i still in doubt cause there is no more confirmation about it (as i said many times we already walked the knife blade with horsemen, raising more solders could be... dangerous, it's a curse after all not some "gift").
    It could go either way, but to err on the side of "Making this idea work" the lore would have to be that the knowledge of Death Knight Creation is now held by the Ebon Blade.

    I'm also not suggesting they have recruitment drives with a little booth in Orgrimmar with a sign "Will raise you into undeath for $10!" or something. That would -probably- be too silly for the Devs.

    PROBABLY.
    When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like injustice.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    The heroic classes that we have in the game, currently, are Death Knights and Demon Hunters. Both were very important to the lore of the expansion within which they were contained, but any new character created as a member of either of these classes is, in turn, tied to the lore of the expansion within which they were created. As a Demon Hunter you trained directly under Illidan in the Black Temple some number of years ago, got frozen in a Warden Crystal, and eventually broke free to destroy the Burning Legion by ending the threat of Sargeras himself by shutting his ass down at the Seat of the Pantheon. Yay.

    But when BFA launches: What the hell is a Demon Hunter supposed to do? After Cataclysm, Death Knights became largely irrelevant to the story, and the further creation of new Death Knights became impossible since Arthas was dead.

    But. Now we've got the Order Halls. We've got independent bodies of unaligned people who have the power or knowledge to complete the task of creating or training new members of their class without tying it to specific expansion content. So why not -do- it?

    We could have the Illidari fracture on the Kayn/Altruis line, with each of those companions leaving the Slayer to manage the Illidari and breaking off to form new schools of Demon Hunters for the Alliance and the Horde. These two could be seeking to build their own orders of Felslayers to continue fighting against the Demons who, while no longer lead by Sargeras, still pose a threat simply by their exorbitant numbers and chaotic nature.

    Similarly, with Bolvar becoming active again through Legion, moving forward we could have Koltira and Thassarian working toward the creation of new Death Knights, possible against each other's faction-based interests since we know they're capable of making new Death Knights (By work-order, or quest-power!). Rather than being people slain in battle raised from the dead, these new Death Knights could be willing to die for their power, and drink some tonic to die and be raised.

    In this way we could both lower the level of their respective classes (Say, to level 20) to allow allied races access to these classes at some time in the future, and create an "Evergreen" method of becoming a Demon Hunter or Death Knight rather than either choice being locked to the specific expansion content they were released for. Win/Win!

    And, since we've got the Level Boost method in place, the best part is that players of races normally -allowed- to be members of those Hero Classes as tied to the previous content could still start at level 55 or level 98 and go through the Expansion-Specific content. So if Void Elves could become demon hunters they'd only be able to choose the level 20 Demon Hunter starting experience, but a Blood Elf would be able to choose between the level 20 and the level 98 experience. This preserves the Lore of the older content and gives players more options for what races to be members of different Hero Classes.

    I shall now accept the heaping of praise/scorn as your particular post prescribes.
    I don't really know the DH story, I only did their starting area. But I main DK and I think your idea makes sense to allow allied races to become DK as well. They shouldn't have the same start since that was in the past but there's nothing to really prevent the other DK leaders to just make new DKs.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    It could go either way, but to err on the side of "Making this idea work" the lore would have to be that the knowledge of Death Knight Creation is now held by the Ebon Blade.

    I'm also not suggesting they have recruitment drives with a little booth in Orgrimmar with a sign "Will raise you into undeath for $10!" or something. That would -probably- be too silly for the Devs.

    PROBABLY.
    yeah true, but we know that such topic can't be hidden forever. Living will meet our new "recruts" sooner or later (plus this recruts can be willing to meet their friends too, so... hiding elephant in ceramic store is bad idea. And we remember how LTT reacted on the idea about raising his rangers in undeath from Sylvanas.

    So it's really... slippy moment in your idea (no i am not totaly against it, but i doubt that Horde and Aliance will eat it so easy)

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Steampunkette's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    I come from the land of Ice and Snow.
    Posts
    3,997
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    yeah true, but we know that such topic can't be hidden forever. Living will meet our new "recruts" sooner or later (plus this recruts can be willing to meet their friends too, so... hiding elephant in ceramic store is bad idea. And we remember how LTT reacted on the idea about raising his rangers in undeath from Sylvanas.

    So it's really... slippy moment in your idea (no i am not totaly against it, but i doubt that Horde and Aliance will eat it so easy)
    Well sure... but these people would be -volunteering- for Death Knight status. Warriors and Hunters and Rogues and shit signing up specifically, and explicitly, to be raised when they die or to die and be raised. So I think Lor'themar would have to just swallow that sadness all on his own. I'm not suggesting they -hide- it, either.

    Just have it be a thing where some people who want power or who don't want to feel as keenly or are dying of cancer or whatever are willing to go do this thing and be this thing and it's entirely voluntary... And... yeah.

    I think most world leaders would be "Okay" with it. Uncomfortable, to be sure, but so long as it's their choice then it's their choice. Like the High Elves in Telogrus Rift learning how to become Void Elves. Belves, too. They're willfully infecting themselves with void energy and exposing themselves to the mad whispering of the Void Lords and everyone's just like "Yeah, okay. Well. Now you're powerful soldiers in the Alliance sooo... Thumbs up!"
    When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like injustice.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    Well sure... but these people would be -volunteering- for Death Knight status. Warriors and Hunters and Rogues and shit signing up specifically, and explicitly, to be raised when they die or to die and be raised. So I think Lor'themar would have to just swallow that sadness all on his own. I'm not suggesting they -hide- it, either.

    ...
    well. this could work i agree, but this still require some confirmation from devs and little rewamp for DK, 1-2 quests (from ebon blade side like sending ambasadors to leaders of horde and aliance, and on side of this new DK) if we must let them start on lower level than 55.

    Or maybe we can "dance" from the other point. (just an idea) DK class used as Archetype. And this "new" recturts are not dead actually but some "priests, warlocks, blood mages, necromancers and etc. etc." who embraced the idea wich give birth to paladins. Like - "Knowledge is power, but i must learn how to defend myself, my followers, how to rule", or they are some "battle maniacs from mage caste, who want to witness how enemies die by their hand". So they are "Dark" knights in the begining. and THEN! we could give them quest chain like with green fire wich result them dying (ritualy or other way) and being raised as DK. This way will open some customisation ideas like green fire for Warlocks, AND open the way for new races being "DK".
    Yeah this idea will require much more, so i'll leave this as an idea there.
    Last edited by Zorish; 2018-03-20 at 03:36 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    It could go either way, but to err on the side of "Making this idea work" the lore would have to be that the knowledge of Death Knight Creation is now held by the Ebon Blade.

    I'm also not suggesting they have recruitment drives with a little booth in Orgrimmar with a sign "Will raise you into undeath for $10!" or something. That would -probably- be too silly for the Devs.

    PROBABLY.
    Even if the Ebon Blade remains incapable, Bolvar would certainly know how to do it -- and the Ebon Blade has cautiously aligned with him. Unless somebody has an explanation for how the Lich King forgot how to raise people into undeath.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    Even if the Ebon Blade remains incapable, Bolvar would certainly know how to do it -- and the Ebon Blade has cautiously aligned with him. Unless somebody has an explanation for how the Lich King forgot how to raise people into undeath.
    not many people know about him actually (even Anduin probably don't know where his mentor). And imagine what happens if common folks or solders see new Death knights. Or maybe their dead friends raised in undeath.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •