Returning player: Raider.io, the saving grace?

[Ealyssa]

It's total BS. I'm good player pulling top deeps but I just do weekly chests with pugs. I choose dungeon I just want. so never been Seat or Cath and dislike others. So I don't have score from these dungeons. Don't know what this should affect any of mine performance in another dungeon where I can be not invited because of "Mythic + score"

The only BS is your post. Good players have good scores, period.

I pretty much only raid, do one MM+ per week per character. My score is fine, not great obviously, but just fine enough.

Oh. And good players don't perma avoid a dungeon because "muh am godz but me dont likez hard dungun".

[HuxNeva]

+970ilvl here(TOP gear in bags) and still have sometimes problem with invites(for +15 weekly caches) because of the low score.
If I'm avoiding some dungeons(cba to do them, don't care about the score), but for example I've done the one dungeon on +17 they're looking melee DPS for, then what's the problem with inviting me for the one that's +15?

It's not a problem with you. But you're probably just being 'outplayed' by others in the queue. And in some cases there will be group leaders looking for a 'super hard carry' on their just dinged alt and they just want 'moar' then what you offer.

[Umbrex]

Got from 0-2700 in a week with relative ease with 951 equipped ilvl playing as a rogue, i don’t know what some of you guys are smoking.

Considering the overall time investment in the game and how far into 7.3 we are atm, considering the itemlvl of alot of people, it just feels to me hating on raider.io is a cop-out for not realising your own failure. Failing is a part of life. Admitting it and taking steps to improve yourself, being it upping the rotation, getting weak auras or watching youtube on dungeon mechanics is the way forward, but sadly the path less chosen in this environment.

Great debates and oppinions. Keep it going

[Deleted]

The only BS is your post. Good players have good scores, period.

I pretty much only raid, do one MM+ per week per character. My score is fine, not great obviously, but just fine enough.

Oh. And good players don't perma avoid a dungeon because "muh am godz but me dont likez hard dungun".

It not about dungeon being hard. but about its fucking boring. Point is you cant have a good score if don't do all dungeons.

[Zantos]

Been trying to pug on my druid. This addon makes it near impossible. I don't even go for mythic +15. I see tons of pugs looking for 2k or 1.5k for +11. Some simply say they will be looking at raider.io. It is basically gearscore v2. With people buying carries all over the place for +15 for the artifact appearance, it doesn't even seem reliable. Which doesn't help much since if they suck after you start, its either 4 man it or hope they suck just enough to at least be usable.

[tkioz]

I'm noticing a trend in the people who hate the addon, they are all people who "only do a 15 for the cache"... Guess what? You're exactly the people we're trying to filter out, well you and the utter numpties that just can't play. We want people that know the mechcanics of each boss and each trash pack. We don't want people who stand next to the tank when they've got a great big lightening circle around them during the first few pulls in HoV. Or Ninja pull the mariner in MoS while we're still dealing with dogs and then forget to blow a defensive.

"Oh fuck you tkioz, I raid mythic and have a 100 on X boss! I know what I'm doing! My epeen is bigger than yours!"

Good for you buddy, good for you. You wouldn't want me to join your raid group and fuck everything up because I'm only 4/11m would you? No, you want someone with the same progress as you that can pull their weight, and no I'm not talking about DPS, because frankly DPS DOESN'T BLOODY MATTER. It helps, it helps a lot, but what matters is knowing the pulls, just like in raiding.

I don't have an amazing score myself, 2600ish on my main, but that's because I don't push as high as some. That's fine, I don't expect my score to get me into 20s either. I wish I could say the same for raiders with shit scores, the number of people have whispered me mythic X kill achievements when applying to my 15-18s is staggering and I turn them down all the same. You know why? Because it's a totally different type of content. I would do the same if someone linked me a high PvP rating.

So yeah, fuck off and pay your dues just like everyone else. You didn't walk into mythic raiding either, you had to work your way up. You didn't walk into glad ranking, you worked your way up.

I hope to god Blizzard puts M+ score in game with BFA...

[Pensylvestor]

Looks like the common "theme" in this thread consists of group A, which are people who don't like the raider.io addon because 'they're super good players 4 realz guys, they just want to get their 15 done for the week, again guys, I'm really not that bad, I just don't do M+ a lot'.

And group B, which are people who like the addon because they can avoid people in group A easier. People have a right to set their own requirements for their own group, they have been doing so since Vanilla.... this didn't start with Gearscore. There are plenty of groups, both for raids and M+ that have more relaxed requirements, and those groups will take much longer to clear the content successfully.

If people have put in the work to get their M+ score up, or clear heroic/mythic antorus, they should have every right to be in a group of people with similar experience if they WANT TO. Are there people who got to 3k+ and still do shit damage/healing? Absolutely, but you can assume that they at least know most of the mechanics pretty well.

There are people who are 10/11M antorus who do not deserve to be that far progressed because they do shitty damage/healing too, but they probably still know the mechanics enough to not wipe your raid on Vari.

Raid logs will not help you on higher keys where most mechanics start to one shot you. Not that raid logs mean anything for atb where most specs are so rng based and you have fights like portal keeper where being in the portal group kills your parse, or kin'garoth where your add can die in 9 seconds and you spend most of the damage bonus phase running to the other add, or being an aff lock on war council where your warriors/ele shamans kill the adds in 2 seconds and the fight becomes single target for you.

Obviously someone who has mostly purple logs on mythic probably knows how to play their spec pretty well, just as someone who is 970 and has mostly blue logs on heroic probably sucks pretty hard. But logs, particularly parse percentage, are not always a good indicator of how good or bad someone is or is going to be, especially in M+. M+ score at least shows that they know how to do the mechanics and can do enough damage/healing that the key doesn't get depleted, whether they got carried a little or not.

Some people can abuse the system and ask for requirements that they themselves do not meet, sure, but how hard is it really to just get the addon yourself and check them out before hand? Or if you're really unsure look them up on warcraftlogs or raider.io and see for yourself? You have every right to avoid that group and player. Just because some tool bags misuse it, doesn't mean it doesn't help a lot of people form competent groups quickly.

[Naiyano]

Exactly what tkioz said tbh. I do not have a very impressive score on my "main" and alts. Around 3k or something and around 2.7k on this mage. I did raid mythic on my mage. Also not very impressive 6/11M. But my mythic raiding experience brings nothing to the table in a mythic plus. Absolutely nothing.

I also get a lot of whispers from mythic raiders with X kill Achievements. You know what? yep i decline them insta if their score is low. I don't ask for super high scores for a +19 or whatever. Everything above 2.7k is fine for me if i am in need of this class. Usually it works pretty well. In my experience in the last 5-6 weeks everything under 2.3k is usually bad and a fourth affix i don't want to deal with. Just wait a few seconds and a better player wil come along.

I have no interest in a player who does the same three dungeons over and over on +15. These players usually do not care about mythic plus and therefore don't fit in my groups. This addon does exactly what it's supposed to do. A godsend in my opinion.

[lonely zergling]

I do think the score is missused for low keys but its actually good for the high m+ puggers scene (25-27's).

The absurd thing is the score removes the people who care about m+ and high score players from blizzards LFG tool as any serious horde EU player will use the m+ discord to find keys / groups / players.

[Julmara]

its a great addon sorting out the trash of most lfr people

[Whywoulducare]

The irony, talking about epeen when raider.io is the current "EPEEN ADDON"
So difficult to get carried on such affixes, any crap player, especially casters can get his useless score this week.
Won't make him any less crappy.

Had a good laugh with the dps doesn't matter part, just teasing what you'll find most of the time on those "raider.io" runs.

[Aggrophobic]

I dislike it and everything it stands for.

Putting 3rd party barriers in the community never sits well with me, dating all the way back to the extreme uptake of Gearscore during WotLK.

I've never had a problem clearing +15s, but I only do 1 mythic+ a week for the cache. I've found that groups which are solely reliant on Raider io have weaker players in them than the ones that'll take whatever and are usually overflowing with undeserving elitism.

Since raider io has become popular, I've ceased running a weekly M+ unless I happen to be doing it with friends.

That is complete and utter bullshit. This addon increases the chance of finding at least somewhat competent players by a pretty large factor. The vast majority of players have no clue what so ever about how to do most dungeons and you need to do your best to avoid them. This addon helps you do that.

[JackWest]

Best things in the whole expac. Lemme explain: before I start using the website and addon, I used to make grp for my keystone and invite pretty much based on ilvl and class. 9/10 times I was ending up with people who have the gear to pull 1.5mil ST, but they cant get above 500k. People that die on every avoidable 1 shot mechanic, people that clearly dont know the dungeons. After I started using it, smooth runs. Every. Single. Time. People that know the instances by heart and know what to interrupt, cc or just NOT walk into like a blind man. Example: last week guildie asked me if I wanna do his 17 nelth(tyranical and he is SP). We took 3 people from LFG with above 2.5k score. Missed the 2 chest for 30 seconds, due to one fuck up(2nd boss was ninja pulled by aoe trinket as I pulled the last pack, resulting in boss having 2 stacks of Bolstering, aka more hp on already tyrannical fight). This week as its necrotic and I hate it more than anything, I just joined random pug where the leader wasnt using addon. Worst run i've had since I got the addon. It was 15 CoS. The ele shaman kept body pulling/intentionally pulling like he is on a race about it. Most of the times when I pull a pack, he walks into the one nearby, or doesnt move from incoming patrol, or just goes to the pack close and attacks it. Not to mention the warrior dying quite few times to the construct's aoe hit. Of course, every once in a while you see a 3k player that's as clueless as the average 500 scored one, just with bigger ego, but those cases are exception. I dont think the addon is perfect at all. I can easily think of few issues, but its the best we have right now, so I am gonna stick to it as long as I can

[Khuzog]

Couldn't give less of a shit. I got invited to fewer groups when it first came out and I was switching my Prot Paladin to Blood DK, didn't really know why until I found out about the mod when some of my friends asked why I invited someone one time with no "score." When I finally installed it all I really saw was people way, way, way below what they're asking for ("But muh main is the 1st rated DPS on my server, honest!")

The times it's been a factor in my decision making are negligible at best and honestly either people have found ways to artificially inflate their score by getting carried by some friends or they've lucked through a lot because the 2-3 times I went "Well this person has the highest score" maybe once did they manage to outperform my guild DPS who have lower scores.

It's just another metric / crutch for people who can't make leadership decisions without their hand being held. I can see it for people who need to pug tanks / healers because that's a little harder to get carried, I guess.

[Ragnork58]

Best addon ever, makes M+playable!

Know what else makes M+ playable?
Friends
A Guild

[kibil]

I really don't like that addon.

Normally I do with my guild heroic antorus and we are progressing on mythic antorus now, anyone that raids on mythic difficult knows that it's no easy task.

So what I mean it's, I don't do much 5 man keystone, because I think it's really boring, affixes are just stupid and in a week depending the affixes you have, you can do like 3-4 level LOWER than you accomplished the week before.

Then this addon came up and as I said I don't do much m+ runs, anyway because of a addon like that, people just cut me cause I dont have a XXXX score, that is fucking stupid. My gear is pretty decent and people don't even ask anything, they just see your score on a fucking addon and cut you.
So guess what, I removed the addon, and again I can easily get good groups and do m+ higher than the ones I was trying before.

The idea behind that addon is not bad, imo, it is just bad shaped the way it is right now.

[Deleted]

It will help you determine if they know how to play their class or not though. Something that ilvl or M+ score will not..

Only how you use your damage toolkit, people inexperienced in m+ seems to have forgotten they even have things like interrupts, knockbacks, stuns, slows, banish, fear etc, all of which can be really useful in m+.

You raider.io score doesn't tell you that though either. It just tells you that the group they were in when they did it last time knew what they were doing. The specific player might not have known much at all, but benefited from the fact that the rest of the group did.

Again, raider.io score is a measure of group ability, not individual ability.

It's way more difficult to carry one person out of five than it is to carry one person out of twenty, especially though every single dungeon. Could someone have been carried? Yes, we carry our shadow priest on a weekly basis, he doesn't have a clue on how to run m+ and his score only being around 1000 shows it. Raider.IO is by no means a guarantee that the person knows what they are doing, but it's by far the best tool-set we have, far better than basing your choice on someone's raid logs which can also be cheesed fairly easily.

To quote a person in our raid a couple of weeks ago: "I'm going let you guys do all the mechanics this week so I can solely focus on damage to improve my logs."

[Lord Pebbleton]

As a 973ilvl player, my opinion is that raider.io is bullshit. I have been completing my +15 mythic every week for ages now, I've been rejected, I got gud, I got in fail groups and I kept going.
I shouldn't be required to start anew just because a crap add-on says so, especially with that ilvl. But I still get rejected because my score isn't 4000 or some bs. Raider.io is only used by those who fancy themselves though dudes on the hardcore side of things, while all they do is making it harder for the rest of the world to get thine with their weekly.
Save raider.io for actual super-high keys.

[Deleted]

It's not about personal opinion. But about if that addon tracks good things or not. That Addon doesn't know how you can perform in the dungeon. Even if you are dogshit and get carried you will have the good score.

Same could be said for rankings in raids. Is a person who ignored all mechanics and only focus on dealing damage to the boss performing well or poorly? The difference is that a single person is 20 % of a group of five as opposed to 5 % of a group of 20, and it's far more difficult to carry someone through all of the dungeons on a high key if they really do suck.

Looking at your raider.io it's clear that you only run weekly keys, in which case raider.io really should't be something you need to worry about. 15+ are extremely simple and you should be able to create your own group with no problems.

- - - Updated - - -

As a 973ilvl player, my opinion is that raider.io is bullshit. I have been completing my +15 mythic every week for ages now, I've been rejected, I got gud, I got in fail groups and I kept going.
I shouldn't be required to start anew just because a crap add-on says so, especially with that ilvl. But I still get rejected because my score isn't 4000 or some bs. Raider.io is only used by those who fancy themselves though dudes on the hardcore side of things, while all they do is making it harder for the rest of the world to get thine with their weekly.
Save raider.io for actual super-high keys.

If you're only running 15+ weekly then create your own group and don't worry about the addon. As you yourself mentioned it's really more intended for higher keys where people care about performance, where we want to be certain that everyone's actually experienced and know what to expect. The difference between 15 and 23 is enormous.

[Allenschezar]

Know what else makes M+ playable?
Friends
A Guild

So much this.

I'm so happy i can do my mythic+ with my friends and guildmembers. That way at least i don't need to rely on raider.io