Survey for Ret Paladin BFA Alpha Build 26367

[MBDTF]

Hello, for those of you who don't know who I am. I'm Mbdtf, owner of Paladin discord server Hammer of Wrath, last time I came here was to share the results of the last survey as well as to show people the conversation that was had with the person developing our class for the next expansion.

After the success of the last survey, in terms of numbers and the response it received from a developer, I've decided it was time to go ahead and go and make another survey for people to submit feedback.

This time around I've decided to split it into 3 subjects:
- What changes are people still waiting to see.
- What do people feel about the biggest changes to the class in this build.
- The state of ret mobility.

Also from the feedback gathered from the last survey I've decided to add a note section as the final page of the survey. The original plan was to add it after every question, but via responses it would be a mess to sort through.

General things for people who are curious:
- Only one response is allowed per person, except this time around you are able to edit your results.
- While it does require a Gmail to take the survey, your identity will be kept anonymous. Aka I can't specifically see who gave what response, and neither can anyone else.

https://goo.gl/forms/IcRLsWoU4dAaLl9o1

[Nfinitii]

Ret mobility is the biggest concern that I have w/ ret atm. I didn't like divine steed in d3 and hate that they brought it to wow. It's basically a fancy sprint and when compare to other sprint effects it's worse, also other classes that have sprint effects have other mobility tools. Not only has ret mobility been bad all expansion in bfa they r increasing its cd... if they had taken any ability from the crusader in d3 it should have been fallen sword, or tyreals sword/teleport thing from hots.

I'm not saying we need warrior or monk lvl mobility but something more than what we have now is greatly needed.

[Reith]

I don't like page 4 of the survey. I really can't finish it like this, and I want to.

[nyc81991]

Ret mobility is the biggest concern that I have w/ ret atm. I didn't like divine steed in d3 and hate that they brought it to wow. It's basically a fancy sprint and when compare to other sprint effects it's worse, also other classes that have sprint effects have other mobility tools. Not only has ret mobility been bad all expansion in bfa they r increasing its cd... if they had taken any ability from the crusader in d3 it should have been fallen sword, or tyreals sword/teleport thing from hots.

I'm not saying we need warrior or monk lvl mobility but something more than what we have now is greatly needed.

They are also nerfing Blessing of Freedom to be a 45 second cd. With nothing new being added to help mobility it's a lot worse than Legion.

[Ramiell]

Comparing monk lvl mobility to Ret lvl mobility actually makes me chuckle out loud.

[garonne]

Comparing monk lvl mobility to Ret lvl mobility actually makes me chuckle out loud.

it really is laughable. but monks defensives and heals are pretty laughable to ret as well.

[Reith]

it really is laughable. but monks defensives and heals are pretty laughable to ret as well.

Mobility can work as a defensive and it can also work offensively, so I'd take mobility over our lame defensives.

[garonne]

Mobility can work as a defensive and it can also work offensively, so I'd take mobility over our lame defensives.

excuse me, its my fault for saying it like that. I meant damage reduction >_>

[Deleted]

excuse me, its my fault for saying it like that. I meant damage reduction >_>

Actually, I disagree.

Yes, monk's heals are laughable compare to ret's, but defesive wise, Touch of Karma is, to me much more powerfull than shield of vengeance, because it's a flat 50% of their max HP whereas Shield of Vengeance without crit seems to be more like 17-18% of our HP. So, even if Shield of vengeance is on a lower cooldown (but only thanks to our weapon, in BFA the cooldowns will be the same and Shield of vengeance will be a flat 30% of our HP), I think Touch of karma is better.

In addition to that, they have an entire raw dedicated to defensive, with a physical one on a longer cooldown than Eye for an eye but that can be more powerfull, a magical one on a pretty small cooldown that reduce damage by a lot (60%) and a two charge heal outside of the GCD that heals for 15% HP on a small cooldown (30 sec / charge).

So, even if monks doesn't have immunities, defensive wise I think they are in a really good state. And, our immunities are on a really long cooldown and Blessing of protection don't even work on everything.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Tried my hardest to give my bestest with this survey.
I dearly hope my input will help.

[Deleted]

Couldn't inject quite all of my hatred for Divine Steed, but it helped vent a little.

I can't state just how much I want that ability deleted and replaced with literally any of the old tools.

[Darkarath]

I did the survey, and I got to say... Amazing job MBDTF ! I really think that this can be helpful and I love how the survey is done, good questions IMO. I will be paying attention for more of these.

BTW regarding Divine Steed I just want it removed for some new mobility skill. I just do not like how Divine Steed works or looks. What about that teleport that we had in Legion Alpha, similar to the D3 crusader one? It might be bad but I am sure that at least it will be cool-looking and fun to use.

[Deleted]

Comparing mobility does not work. A monk dies within a stun, so he needs mobility. A ret having 15stacks of crusade + awesome mobility is pretty damn OP.

You have to balance the spec's itself, not just one element within. The best start would be to look at each and every mechanic and decide if its useful or not.

With divine hammer + autobubble +GJ gone, our ae is so complete dead and don't forget, that just these skills were needed to make us viable.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Comparing mobility does not work. A monk dies within a stun, so he needs mobility. A ret having 15stacks of crusade + awesome mobility is pretty damn OP.

No.
Ret dies within a stun just the same.
And noone sane is asking for Ret to have monk-levels of mobility.

We're asking for decency. Viability. Reliability.

[Morally Grey Storm]

At this point, I'd be almost perfect fine with Steed getting its 45s cd back and either Emancipate or Cleanse removing movement impairing effects. Not sure, why Blizz is so hesitant about that...my guess is: PvP talents.

No.

PvP talents have nothing to do with it.

[killwithpwr]

Thanks for the survey again MBDTF,

As others have said, mobilty is a very sore subject to Ret, and i would personally rather Blizz gave us Long arm of the law back instead of Cavalier (leave baseline horse in for 'oh shit' situations)
And perhaps even give us Emancipate back (god i love that spell).

Another highly debatable subject i would have liked Blizzard to address is the poor quality of our utility:
SoV just isnt a defensive and even when i use it as one, its just shit compared to Divine Protection.
Freedom is fine as it is on live, the higher cd on Alpha just makes it less reliable and annoying.
Greater Blessing are mostly garbage, only coveted by healers for that extra 1% mana.
Divine Shield has way too long CD and BoP is way too much of a niche ability.
Our heals are subpar to any other expansion since MoP (i dont remember how it was in Wrath since i only played Prot and quit for the whole of Cata).

Overall, our utility needs a boost, some abilities should be on lower cd (Divine Shield, Freedom and movement speed increases) while other abilities should be replaced with something more usefull (Greater Blessings and SoV) and we need better defensive options.

Last thing (crucial to me) - there is no mention of the Retribution Passive.

I am really hoping for the removal of this passive, or at least tweak it so it does 0 damage (not nerfed).
If this ability has to stay, then a % of damage reduction upon a team members death makes way more sense than a damage increase to me.

[Deleted]

Where is the BfA alpha and beyond thread , i cannot find a proper place to bitch about ret situation....

[Deleted]

No.
Ret dies within a stun just the same.
And noone sane is asking for Ret to have monk-levels of mobility.

We're asking for decency. Viability. Reliability.

you have literally 3 ways to get out of a stun and if these opportunities are exhausted, you will be at DR's which mean you will never ever sit in a full stun. and even if, you still have 4 other skills to counter that.

people always expect the enemy player to play perfectly, aka hitting every stun perfectly or cc chain perfectly or a "go", but never estimate the actually play good i.e. pre hoj'ing or walling enemy cd's or enemy's speed ups.

example is hoj'ing a shaman jump i.e

[Deleted]

you have literally 3 ways to get out of a stun and if these opportunities are exhausted, you will be at DR's which mean you will never ever sit in a full stun. and even if, you still have 4 other skills to counter that.

people always expect the enemy player to play perfectly, aka hitting every stun perfectly or cc chain perfectly or a "go", but never estimate the actually play good i.e. pre hoj'ing or walling enemy cd's or enemy's speed ups.

example is hoj'ing a shaman jump i.e

We lose will of the ashbringer in BfA, so no free stunbreak. We also lose CD time on freedom and pony.

If it stays as it is no class or spec in the history of wow will ever have been as immobile as we are about to become.

[Jester Joe]

Everyone's hating on Divine Steed.
I just wish they'd take it off the GCD. I'd be happy with just that even.

It feels FAR too clunky trying to chase a mob and not be able to hit them at the same time because you're waiting for the GCD, especially considering we have BoJ/Judge for a bit of ranged