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  1. #1

    Why are people bad at wow/raiding.

    I know this has a high chance of degenerating into a troll thread, but it's a question I genuinely ask myself while pugging.

    Unless you're in a very ambitious mythic guild wow is a very easy game, both in terms of theory and mechanics.

    1 read up your spec on icy veins
    2 DL a boss mod, if you're a healer maybe DL some raid frames
    3 go to wago and DL the highest rated WA package for your class, maybe a raid WA package like those from Reloe (both optional)
    4 during encounter look at the output of your boss mod every 15-20 seconds

    Congrats! You're a good heroic raider now and you can probably join and compete in a triple digit mythic guild.

    So how is it that so many people struggle in heroic? Even if you don't do any of the above steps "move out of shit" alone will be enough for the vast majority of hc encounters and I don't think it takes any kind of talent to step out of shit on a scripted timer that announces what's coming up minutes in advance.

    Let's get the obvious explanations out of the way first:
    -People don't know the encounters: I mostly do my pugging in 960/965 groups, you have to clear HC a couple of times for that ilvl
    -People just don't care: again - 960/965 groups full of angry nerds who will likely kick you if you fail too badly and not having to look for another group is a strong incentive I guess
    I also encounter this problem in some mythic guilds where by definition people are at least a bit ambitious and obviously know the encounters.

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    I have a life outside of wow u know!!
    At least this is the excuse I see when confronting people that are horribly underperforming.
    If wow is a hobby, then people who raid lazily aren't engaging in it seriously; it takes me 10 minutes to read up all bosses every new tier and then I'm heroic-ready (bar being gimped by obviously low gear when a tier is released). Heroic is my endgame though, so I put effort in it.
    Maybe the answer is that they are lazy and as soon as you tell them "why don't you download...", they give up with it and pretend to be decent.

  3. #3
    Over 9000! OneWay's Avatar
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    They expect a boost or someone else to do their part instead of them because what they do "it's enough" and it isn't.
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  4. #4
    Deleted
    The real reasons:

    1. People are not really trying - this is the biggest one imo;
    2. Many players are (very) young;
    3. Many players are from non-English speaking countries and struggle with truly understand what they read;
    4. Many people are very inept with keyboard/mouse when gaming;
    5. Many people are unable to focus or discipline themselves.

  5. #5
    People don't do their own research, nor do they want to put in any extra effort. The amount of times I hear "I'm too lazy" in WoW is absurd. I understand that some people just want to come in and punch things, that's what LFR is about, but I'm still amazed how many people resist coming into a raid with mods/food/flasks etc prepared.

    "It's just a game" isn't an excuse while also expecting first pull kills. Couple this with the people who refuse to change their play style and there ya go.
    Last edited by Bathory; 2018-04-05 at 10:05 AM.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphatorg View Post
    I know this has a high chance of degenerating into a troll thread, but it's a question I genuinely ask myself while pugging.

    Unless you're in a very ambitious mythic guild wow is a very easy game, both in terms of theory and mechanics.

    1 read up your spec on icy veins
    2 DL a boss mod, if you're a healer maybe DL some raid frames
    3 go to wago and DL the highest rated WA package for your class, maybe a raid WA package like those from Reloe (both optional)
    4 during encounter look at the output of your boss mod every 15-20 seconds

    Congrats! You're a good heroic raider now and you can probably join and compete in a triple digit mythic guild.

    So how is it that so many people struggle in heroic? Even if you don't do any of the above steps "move out of shit" alone will be enough for the vast majority of hc encounters and I don't think it takes any kind of talent to step out of shit on a scripted timer that announces what's coming up minutes in advance.

    Let's get the obvious explanations out of the way first:
    -People don't know the encounters: I mostly do my pugging in 960/965 groups, you have to clear HC a couple of times for that ilvl
    -People just don't care: again - 960/965 groups full of angry nerds who will likely kick you if you fail too badly and not having to look for another group is a strong incentive I guess
    I also encounter this problem in some mythic guilds where by definition people are at least a bit ambitious and obviously know the encounters.
    A friend of mine has been playing WoW (off and on these days) since BC, and for someone who has played 100's of hours he is hilariously terrible at the game. He's never raided past LFR, he hates PvP so hasn't ever touched rated. All that he finds entertaining is questing, lvling up alts and farming transmogs. I often compare myself to him because I've been playing only slightly longer than he has, where he has no clue of whats happening outside the game, I'm constantly checking up on mmo-champ, watching streams on twitch reading about new and current content so I always know whats going on.

    I don't consider myself a hardcore player, I've never done heroic raiding but I assume there are thousands of players like my friend who just have no interest in doing the hard stuff. Today you can get higher ilvl gear just from doing daily quest crap and invasions than a 2k+ rated pvp player so what's the point in learning something like boss fights or pvp strats if gear is handed to you on a platter.

  7. #7
    My gf doesn't want to read up on things because she doesn't want other people telling her how to play, instead she plays the way she wants even if it's not optimal but she's also having more fun that way.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by nickp007 View Post
    A friend of mine has been playing WoW (off and on these days) since BC, and for someone who has played 100's of hours he is hilariously terrible at the game. He's never raided past LFR, he hates PvP so hasn't ever touched rated. All that he finds entertaining is questing, lvling up alts and farming transmogs. I often compare myself to him because I've been playing only slightly longer than he has, where he has no clue of whats happening outside the game, I'm constantly checking up on mmo-champ, watching streams on twitch reading about new and current content so I always know whats going on.

    I don't consider myself a hardcore player, I've never done heroic raiding but I assume there are thousands of players like my friend who just have no interest in doing the hard stuff. Today you can get higher ilvl gear just from doing daily quest crap and invasions than a 2k+ rated pvp player so what's the point in learning something like boss fights or pvp strats if gear is handed to you on a platter.
    I'm not talking about people who flat out aren't interested in raiding. That's a concious choice. I'm talking about people who spend many hours per week doing raid content but are still terrible at it. Like the guy who once told me on mmo-champion that Coven was a horrible boss because RNG would wipe you and there was nothing you could do about it. Or that other guy (I think it was a rogue) who was complaining that he didn't get access to the groups he deserved and then someone dug up his logs where he died on basically every boss.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Leih's Avatar
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    It's funny how easily people who have been gaming for years forget that having the coordination just to even use your keyboard and mouse in conjunction to move and attack at the same time is a relatively advanced and difficult skill for the vast majority of adults who aren't used to gaming, and WoW attracts a lot of non-gamers and casual players who aren't nearly as advanced as all that.

    When my Dad plays WoW, he will have to stop moving, look down at the keyboard and find his number keys in order to start hitting his keybindings, and he spends most of the time looking at the keyboard to make sure he's hitting the right keys. He's just got no experience playing PC games and doesn't have the hand-eye coordination or muscle memory to use both his mouse AND keyboard at the same time while also being able to look at the screen, be aware of his position AND on top of that have the headspace to memorize mechanics and pay attention to the timers and announcements on a boss mod. He's cleared LFR playing like this, but he would never get anywhere in Heroic. It's not like he doesn't try, but he would need a lot of practice and time but due to work and other commitments he only plays for like 2-3 hours one evening a week.

    It's easy to forget when you're a 16-25 year old gamer that not everyone is on the same natural level as you are, and things that seem "easy" for you are long established skills you picked up with time.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphatorg View Post
    I know this has a high chance of degenerating into a troll thread, but it's a question I genuinely ask myself while pugging.

    Unless you're in a very ambitious mythic guild wow is a very easy game, both in terms of theory and mechanics.

    1 read up your spec on icy veins
    2 DL a boss mod, if you're a healer maybe DL some raid frames
    3 go to wago and DL the highest rated WA package for your class, maybe a raid WA package like those from Reloe (both optional)
    4 during encounter look at the output of your boss mod every 15-20 seconds

    Congrats! You're a good heroic raider now and you can probably join and compete in a triple digit mythic guild.

    So how is it that so many people struggle in heroic? Even if you don't do any of the above steps "move out of shit" alone will be enough for the vast majority of hc encounters and I don't think it takes any kind of talent to step out of shit on a scripted timer that announces what's coming up minutes in advance.

    Let's get the obvious explanations out of the way first:
    -People don't know the encounters: I mostly do my pugging in 960/965 groups, you have to clear HC a couple of times for that ilvl
    -People just don't care: again - 960/965 groups full of angry nerds who will likely kick you if you fail too badly and not having to look for another group is a strong incentive I guess
    I also encounter this problem in some mythic guilds where by definition people are at least a bit ambitious and obviously know the encounters.
    i have a little chalenge

    pick up random mmorpg - go level up and tell us how hard even simple things like leveling learning up proffs etc will be

    then go on their forums and check how many people who play that game for 5+ years claim how "ease mode " it is and how they cant understand why players in that game simply cant "git gud"

    you and many others play this game non stop (and non stop is crucial here) for nearly 15 years - how the f... it is supposed to have any resemblance of chalenge for you

    i dare you to try it.

    regardless of it even simplest things like "move out of shit" with timers they have in wow usually require from you pretty good muscle memory and reaction times seeing how most players dont have their rotation 100% memorised and have to divide atention between what is happeing on boss and on skills that they can/need to use. (imagine if they for example double the time for moving out of shit/boss cast times - i can bet you right now that waaaay less people would be dying to stuff - but then hardcores used to everything blizzard throws on them would bitch that "game is too slow " )

    wow has become in last 5 years more of an action rpg then classic mmorpg with very strong accesnt on fast action - which is clearly way to fast thats why they slow it down in BfA

    game is just too fast for regular players who dont spend could of hours each night playing it.
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2018-04-05 at 08:51 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nickp007 View Post
    I'm constantly checking up on mmo-champ, watching streams on twitch reading about new and current content so I always know whats going on.
    That's exactly the difference between decent players and drag-alongs. It is truly amazing how many people underestimate the power of watching and reading things - man you can learn so much by just watching streams. But ofc why would people put effort into something "because they don't have time for scheduled raiding hurdur" when they can open a weekly chest in their order hall and get a free mythic equivalent item.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    1) Lazy people: pugs are literally filled with lazy people. Not bad players, just lazy. They probably hope to be carried, that someone will fill their "gap" and just do the bare minimun.

    2) People with lack of concentration: Pugs are also filled with people with lack of concentration. Maybe they are also lazy. They often alt tab, watch TV/Netflix whatever and their performance drops even if they are good players.

    3) Boosted people: very often, in a gruop of 3/4 friends, you have 1 or 2 "good players" and boosted friend. The last one are usually lazy, not concentrated or just newbie (not offensive). And sometime the good friends just can't hold their dead weight, specially in Heroic raid and worse Mythic.

    4) Not prepared: the wast majority of players in failing Heroic pugs. They are players with good ilvl, but not prepared for Heroic or above. Their skill level is good for normal, but they didn't bother (for whatever reason) to look up the few new tactics or step up their rotation, leading to poor performance or wipe.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Most people simply do not care about their performance because it doesn't matter for the content they are doing. If you don't need to improve, you probably won't either. Great example of this is anyone unused to m+ trying a high key for the first time, even though they've done the dungeon plenty of times in daily heroic and perhaps a 15, they often don't even know the mechanics of the bosses/trash and end up screwing up repeatedly.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    If you're to MAKE people play the game YOU want them to play... you could also pay their subs.

    If you don't PAY their subs, then stfu.

    Oh, it's a online game and people MUST know how to play with others? Tough shit, don't like it, don't play it.

  15. #15
    lack of motivation. i used to be on an heroic raiding guild until cata. then i quit and these days i cant be arsed to even join LFR let alone reading about tactics, theorycrafting or even gem/enchant my gear.

  16. #16
    Its as simple as murica. 95% are stupid.

    Mentality I want this but not want to do anything for it.

    These 2 reasons.

    I dont say you must play how I want but mmo need teamwork sometimes you have to adept to overcome and way to many not want to do that.
    Infracted
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2018-04-06 at 05:18 AM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaeha View Post
    It's easy to forget when you're a 16-25 year old gamer that not everyone is on the same natural level as you are, and things that seem "easy" for you are long established skills you picked up with time.
    its also something what younger people just cant know - with time even if you had amazing coordination and muscle memory it deteriorates. maybe not to crazy levels but people who started in vanilla as 20 year olds are 35 now and have waaaaay worse cordination then current people in their twenties.

    you simply cant beat nature which is what a ton of people forgets

  18. #18
    Raiding is much harder than you make it look. That shit in the OP might be enough for DPS, but as a tank it's not enough to read icyveins and get some addons. And the moment you get a sucking tank or more, you have all the raid fucked. Same for healers. As a dps you can go for a coffee and probably won't be missed terribly if all the others are doing fine. As a healer if you miss a heal might be game over...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    People don't do their own research, nor do they want to put in any extra effort. The amount of times I hear "I'm too lazy" in WoW is absurd. I understand that some people just want to come in and punch things, that's what LFR is about, but I'm still amazed how many people resist coming into a raid with mods/food/flasks etc prepared.

    "It's just a game" isn't an excuse while also expecting first pull kills.
    well it not really hard to understand - gold has atm very real value of possiblitiy to spend it on game time - so ofc people rather save it then spend on flasks/pots etc.

    so ofc they woudl rather spend couple of dozens of thousands of gold on gametime then on flasks

    if blizzard didnt tie gold to $$$ people would be much more willing to spend it because then it wouldnt have real value only virtual one.

  20. #20
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Bad at WoW and bad at Raiding isn't the same. Just like good at raiding and good at WoW isn't the same.
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