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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    How has nobody said this. Keybinding. Most people click their shit. That makes them shit.
    I've pulled, and seen others do, litteral world-record DPS on bosses whilst clicking every single ability. Every expansion since vanilla.

    Keybinding doesnt make a poor player good, nor does it make a good player poor. It's just convenient. Most your abilities are on a plenty long GCD if you dont remember. It's just taunts, interrupts and such that actually benefit from keybinding.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphatorg View Post
    I know this has a high chance of degenerating into a troll thread, but it's a question I genuinely ask myself while pugging.

    Unless you're in a very ambitious mythic guild wow is a very easy game, both in terms of theory and mechanics.

    1 read up your spec on icy veins
    2 DL a boss mod, if you're a healer maybe DL some raid frames
    3 go to wago and DL the highest rated WA package for your class, maybe a raid WA package like those from Reloe (both optional)
    4 during encounter look at the output of your boss mod every 15-20 seconds

    Congrats! You're a good heroic raider now and you can probably join and compete in a triple digit mythic guild.

    So how is it that so many people struggle in heroic? Even if you don't do any of the above steps "move out of shit" alone will be enough for the vast majority of hc encounters and I don't think it takes any kind of talent to step out of shit on a scripted timer that announces what's coming up minutes in advance.

    Let's get the obvious explanations out of the way first:
    -People don't know the encounters: I mostly do my pugging in 960/965 groups, you have to clear HC a couple of times for that ilvl
    -People just don't care: again - 960/965 groups full of angry nerds who will likely kick you if you fail too badly and not having to look for another group is a strong incentive I guess
    I also encounter this problem in some mythic guilds where by definition people are at least a bit ambitious and obviously know the encounters.
    You basically answer part of the question right there. You list things that should be done to play better, now you know these people basically don't do that.
    Another thing people rarely take into consideration is "play style". Literally the way people use their mouse and keyboard, how they move the camera, their character, keybinds, etc.
    Go watch some shitty stream with like no viewer, random people playing very casually and shit, watch several of them, no one plays the same way, some people have straight up better playstyle than others, they move the camera to see the right thing and it allows them to position better and in the end perform better.
    Now keep in mind, these are people who actually took the time to figure out how to stream and are willing to show themselves, they must have watched other streams and know they are not as good as the top players. They have fun streaming and they don't play as good but it's fine. Now imagine there's people who not only don't know how to stream, but straight up don't even know that streaming is a thing (well maybe they do now cuz sometimes it's shown on the battle.net client) but they most likely have never seen a streamer or a gameplay video, they have no idea how other people play, they simply don't know how far behind they are because they don't know any better.

    These people come home from work, feed their kids, put them to bed, they're exhausted at 8pm, log on, join a pug, and 2 hours before the pull they already gave up on spending a single bit of energy. They're never gonna perform, it's impossible, their brain doesn't give a shit about playing well, the consequences of a video game makes zero difference in their life. Their free time doesn't include watching streamers or videos about the game, much less reading patch notes or guides about their classes, and you can 100% forget reading the journal to learn encounters or even worse... GETTING ADDONS!?!?!? aint nobody got time fo' dat!

    It's true it doesn't take much to be a heroic raider, but the little bit that it takes is already way too far for a lot of people. Keep in mind the vast majority of WoW players don't even know that mmo-c exists. They just log on into the game, play some random whatever and log off without thinking more of it.

    Just go in a regular mythic run (where you can find people who think they're in the big league cuz they stopped doing heroics last week) as a geared tank. People will literally ask you how you do 1m dps as a tank even during a triple pull and they'll think you hack when you use a speed set as a DK. Most people literally live in ignorance, in a level of ignorance so deep that they are ignorant about their own ignorance.

  3. #263
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    Because they are thick as shit. Eh it's fine being shit at games, just don't inflict your badness on other people. Stick to questing and other solo content.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Erous View Post
    Sorry, but that's not being a horrible player. That's you being angry with someone over their opinion.

    Both are clearly terrible players otherwise they wouldn't find Coven impossible or die to simple boss mechanics at early heroic bosses, but I didn't mention them for their opinion, I mentioned them because when you actively discuss raids on mmo-champion it's unlikely that you fall into the "they don't care" or "they don't raid" or "they don't know about external sites" category.
    Last edited by Alphatorg; 2018-04-13 at 09:32 AM.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    I've pulled, and seen others do, litteral world-record DPS on bosses whilst clicking every single ability. Every expansion since vanilla.
    Nah, you haven't.
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Nobody is stopping you to play Elemental casually during questing or raiding #1000 with your disabled mage friends.

  6. #266
    Because ppl are lazy thats it. They done raid finder and think can figure out hc/myth.

  7. #267
    Deleted
    I don't play WOW any longer as I got tired of the game being theory crafted to death. I went to Wildstar where there isn't the same amount of information available and enjoyed raiding there for a couple of years. However, even then I would use WA, DBM equivalents and keybinds as it matters to me to play well, watching timers ain't fun for me. As a new player to Wildstar I joined a guild and the GL helped me play my classes better, taking his time out and sometimes that of the class lead, to help me become effective in raids. Clearly, I was interested in learning and with practice I was then able to mentor new players. Fortunately most GL's in Wildstar know their shit, bear in mind that some players don't have any support and if you do know your class and the person is prepared to learn then take some time at the dummy with the player. You can explain what stats interact with which actions and why it is better to gear in certain way.

    As to people being old and slow and unable to coordinate themselves anymore. Stirling Moss in his 70's when asked if he'd lost these faculties as he got older, said sure I've lost some reaction speed, I'm no longer top percentile but instead now top 5%. He cited using these abilities as the reason he had not declined at the same rate as most of his cohort. So, in his 70's his reaction speeds still outpaced virtually everybody here. WOW doesn't require anything close to the reaction time or coordination of some other types of games (e.g FPS), you are flattering yourself if you think otherwise. Attention is a different thing and in my experience this where people fail, afk at the keyboard effectively, deaths and low dps due to poorly handled disconnects result.

    Some people play WOW like it's a Soap though, feel free, but don't expect to be carried in group content if you aren't prepared to learn.

    Tip for people who can't use a keyboard for movement and binds - put movement on your direction arrows and bind to your home and number keys. I've always done this as I have spades for hands and started with FPS where there was just a few weapon binds. It's more difficult with many binds but you will probably play better like this than using the mouse to move and clicking spells. Through binding this way you develop a logic for how you bind, binds which are required quickly may go on Del - PgDwn, frequently used actions on #keys 1,4,7 then 2,5,8, etc. Using MB5 for ALT. Keep your bars visible whilst you are learning your binds.

  8. #268
    Reading a guide is not the same thing as practicing your class until you know it inside and out. Many people don't want to put in that kind of work for a game or simply don't know how to improve. The learning curve is also higher than you might think when it comes to doing optimal DPS while dealing with raid mechanics. Many beginners to raiding want to do one or the other and not both, and it can take many successful kills of a boss before they start optimizing their play. Blizzard has multiple difficulties of each raid for a reason. If you think heroic is too easy, then great, go so mythic. But there are people who are still struggling to clear heroic even with the guides and addons you mentioned. There's no need for that kind of elitist attitude.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanillashake View Post
    My friends helped me out with the gearing in mythic+ 15s where I just got destroyed with my warlock due to lack of knowledge.
    Thing I noticed is whereas most raids have a guild raidleader spoonfeeding the fights and a wipe-wipe-kill learning path, most players still associate dungeons with a tunnel/AoE zerg. Hgher M+ turns the boss and trash pulls into raidboss like fights, but most people don't bother to learn the mechanics. I have seen very many HC raiders fail hard at getting M+15's done, even late in the expansion.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by vsb View Post
    Surely it ruins fun. It's much more interesting to figure it out myself. I'm not forcing everyone to do so, I understand that many people would find that boring, just don't force reading those guides to everyone.


    I mean timers rectangles.


    That's wrong and if you're not wiping on normal, you're skipping a lot of content. You have to figure out how mechanics work and it can wipe you even in LFR. Sure, you can read guides or journals, but it's much more interesting to learn that in the actual encounter. I suggest you to join PuGs without requirements and you'll find out that people can wipe in normal for hours and that's perfectly OK.
    Sorry for the late reply, I don't check my replies on here often.

    On the first, you can't figure it out yourself without theorycrafting. I'm sure you don't go and build a set of crit gear, a set of Mastery gear, a set of Haste gear and a set of Vers gear and rigorously test them on training dummies to see which one does the highest DPS, do you?

    On the second, you can resize or remove those as you like, it isn't difficult.

    And on the final, that is not wrong. I die on maybe 1/20 attempts on raid bosses personally, and when I do die it's either because I wasn't paying attention or because I got distracted. Yes, PUGs will wipe, but that's not due to the encounter, that's due to half of them not caring enough to actually do anything but spam buttons, in addition to the obvious not being in voice.

  11. #271
    "Why are people so bad at WoW and raiding?"

    Because nothing in this game teaches you anything as you level up which is just another failure of this supposed "new meaningful leveling system" and further exacerbated by boosts meant to entice players that haven't played in years that literally stick you on the steps of the Violet Citadel and go "Here ya go haha thanks for the $60 now fuck off and figure everything out yourself"
    Last edited by Kazuchika; 2018-04-15 at 01:59 AM.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaeha View Post
    It's funny how easily people who have been gaming for years forget that having the coordination just to even use your keyboard and mouse in conjunction to move and attack at the same time is a relatively advanced and difficult skill for the vast majority of adults who aren't used to gaming, and WoW attracts a lot of non-gamers and casual players who aren't nearly as advanced as all that.

    When my Dad plays WoW, he will have to stop moving, look down at the keyboard and find his number keys in order to start hitting his keybindings, and he spends most of the time looking at the keyboard to make sure he's hitting the right keys. He's just got no experience playing PC games and doesn't have the hand-eye coordination or muscle memory to use both his mouse AND keyboard at the same time while also being able to look at the screen, be aware of his position AND on top of that have the headspace to memorize mechanics and pay attention to the timers and announcements on a boss mod. He's cleared LFR playing like this, but he would never get anywhere in Heroic. It's not like he doesn't try, but he would need a lot of practice and time but due to work and other commitments he only plays for like 2-3 hours one evening a week.

    It's easy to forget when you're a 16-25 year old gamer that not everyone is on the same natural level as you are, and things that seem "easy" for you are long established skills you picked up with time.
    Pretty sure this can be said for nearly all of us.

    The majority of people here are mid 20's (like myself) and have been gaming/computer gaming for nearly 14 years now.

    I started on a game called The Sims Online, I couldn't even type without looking at the keyboard, and even then I was slow at it.

    I credit TSO allowing me to type fast/without looking.

    Just like WoW, when I first started, I clicked, I ran with the directional keys and was just a mess lmao. But over time (early Cata) I started keybinding, using my mouse to move (1 hand on Keyboard, the other on the mouse etc) and just got generally better at the game as I kept playing.

    Anyways, you get experience playing the game(s), and you get experience PLAYING the game.
    RIP BFA! 8/27.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    I've pulled, and seen others do, litteral world-record DPS on bosses whilst clicking every single ability. Every expansion since vanilla.
    and i've benched 1000lbs, in fact i often do 10 sets of 20 at that weight.

    i wanna see someone get rank 1 dps while doing a movement intensive fight like rag 25 heroic and just clicking everything.

  14. #274
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jasoncb View Post
    Well i play 5 a side football with friends and none of us play to be the best. It's all about the banter and having a laugh. Now if i started to shout at them and tell them to go and watch videos of professional football matches so they wouldn't suck so much i doubt they'd stick around. People talk on here about "they guy who sucks and lets everybody down in pugs and shoudn't of joined". Surely when you opt to join a pug YOU are taking the risk that random people will join the group who won't be as good as you or don't know the mechanics to begin with? Why is it reasonable to assume people should know all the tactics and are good players and if they aren't demand they to be kicked from the group.

    At least try to be reasonable and understand that fun is very subjective and if you don't want to deal with "baddies" then stick to the mythic guild runs and don't expect people who join pugs to bend to your idea of fun.
    You're comparing it wrong. Think of it like this

    You go to the gym and see some guys playing basketball, you ask the join but you have never played basketball a day in your life and you have 0 fucking clue how the game even works. They kick you off the court by force and pull your hoe card for being complete garbage and wasting their time.

    You don't have to be a NBA player but you should have a decent knowledge and know-how on how to play the game. If you're playing with random guys are the gym, no one is going to scream at you for not playing like Lebron James even if you have a slightly below average skillset in the sport.

    That scenario goes with pugging to. You join a pug and have 0 fucking clue what you're doing. You get kicked because you don't know what you're doing and you're performing inadequately.

    You don't have to be a hardcore #1 player but you should know how to properly perform.
    Last edited by mmoce81e69ea37; 2018-04-15 at 05:24 AM.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    and i've benched 1000lbs, in fact i often do 10 sets of 20 at that weight.

    i wanna see someone get rank 1 dps while doing a movement intensive fight like rag 25 heroic and just clicking everything.
    I once saw a guy riding a unicycle while juggling flaming torches. Like, how the hell did he do that? I cant do either of those things, and he did them simultanously. I guess it was just a hallucination, or he was cheating or something. Because i cant do that no matter how much i practice it, therefor it must be impossible.

  16. #276
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    I once saw a guy riding a unicycle while juggling flaming torches. Like, how the hell did he do that? I cant do either of those things, and he did them simultanously. I guess it was just a hallucination, or he was cheating or something. Because i cant do that no matter how much i practice it, therefor it must be impossible.
    Saying you saw someone do world record dps while clicking is like saying you saw someone run a 4 minute mile with a broken foot. It's just not plausible.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Alright View Post
    Saying you saw someone do world record dps while clicking is like saying you saw someone run a 4 minute mile with a broken foot. It's just not plausible.
    Yes ofcourse, for you it is that way. No way someone is more skilled than you at using their mouse.

  18. #278
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Yes ofcourse, for you it is that way. No way someone is more skilled than you at using their mouse.
    Dozens of videos of people getting high dps parses. None of them clickers. No evidence to support your claim mean you have no claim.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphatorg View Post
    I know this has a high chance of degenerating into a troll thread, but it's a question I genuinely ask myself while pugging.

    Unless you're in a very ambitious mythic guild wow is a very easy game, both in terms of theory and mechanics.

    1 read up your spec on icy veins
    2 DL a boss mod, if you're a healer maybe DL some raid frames
    3 go to wago and DL the highest rated WA package for your class, maybe a raid WA package like those from Reloe (both optional)
    4 during encounter look at the output of your boss mod every 15-20 seconds

    Congrats! You're a good heroic raider now and you can probably join and compete in a triple digit mythic guild.

    So how is it that so many people struggle in heroic? Even if you don't do any of the above steps "move out of shit" alone will be enough for the vast majority of hc encounters and I don't think it takes any kind of talent to step out of shit on a scripted timer that announces what's coming up minutes in advance.

    Let's get the obvious explanations out of the way first:
    -People don't know the encounters: I mostly do my pugging in 960/965 groups, you have to clear HC a couple of times for that ilvl
    -People just don't care: again - 960/965 groups full of angry nerds who will likely kick you if you fail too badly and not having to look for another group is a strong incentive I guess
    I also encounter this problem in some mythic guilds where by definition people are at least a bit ambitious and obviously know the encounters.
    Congratz, you played yourself.

    Why are people bad at using their brain?

  20. #280
    Hm, why are people bad.
    Maybe they process the information that comes to their brain differently than good or great players. Maybe good video gamers have a subconscious faculty that allows them to excel. I've been gaming for around 30 years (nearly my whole life, when I wasn't grounded lol) so maybe my baseline for gaming is higher than someone who say played sports all their life or partied or spent time in their life largely not playing games.
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -updated 2/8/2019

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