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  1. #441
    Same reason most players of any game are bad or mediocre at it; they see it as a game, a leisure activity not to take too seriously. Hence them not investing the time, effort, and attention to git gud. On top of that some people just don't have the mechanical skill, situational awareness or patience for min-maxing and number-crunching of others.

    That's been true for every game out there and WoW has never been an exception.

  2. #442
    I think there's definitely some credit to the "if you've played WoW long enough nothing will be challenging" part. I mean sure raiding at a high level will always provide obstacles, though more so with the quality of your overall team than just your own performance. High m+ kinda same though fewer players. But yeah I mean whenever I've tried a different MMORPG, sure there are some things that are different but you pick it up really fast. It doesn't take long to see patterns and similarities and it was different back in the day because a lot of it was new to everyone.

  3. #443
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Probably for the same reason that people need to make this kind of threads...you know, like:

    "Why are people bad at xyz"
    "Why do people say xyz"
    "Why do people do xyz"

  4. #444
    This has nothing to do with WoW. People are "bad" in real life, too. I can see that every day when using public transport.

  5. #445
    Over 9000! Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Because the content is accessible enough that you can disregard both its mechanics and your own.

    I'm speaking mostly about 5 men content as that is what I do. This is a tired old thing, but I can't tell you how it annoys me to no end to see people in content ranging from normal 5 mens - while leveling - to low level mythic, just ignore everything and expect to stay alive.

    The one that gets me the most is interrupts. I know it's easy, but how hard is it to press that button? We know you have it on your action bars, use it. Or, for example, in Shrine of the Storm people just standing in Tempest and possibly getting upset when they die.

  6. #446
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    They want a solo game where they can raid.

    Raiding requires involvement and certain degree of responsibility (know your class, the fight and your role).

    If all they want to do is DPS, then of course that is a problem.

  7. #447
    "Where do all those gnomes come from..."

  8. #448
    I've managed without 2, 3, and 4 even. People grew dependent on DBM and the like but Blizzard have incorporated most of its features into the base game and telegraph boss's attacks pretty well. It's more like:

    2. Read the dungeon journal. Now you know what the attacks are called/do. Can be particularly helpful to know what damage type they deal for if your counters work on them.
    3. Watch a fatboss vid on the boss. Now you also know what those attacks look like. Can't get that from the dungeon journal, but if you're too lazy you'll know after the first couple of wipes.
    4. Review said dungeon journal again between wipes and look at the "what killed you" button to see what's killing the group.

    Usually that'll do it.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I've managed without 2, 3, and 4 even. People grew dependent on DBM and the like but Blizzard have incorporated most of its features into the base game and telegraph boss's attacks pretty well. It's more like:

    2. Read the dungeon journal. Now you know what the attacks are called/do. Can be particularly helpful to know what damage type they deal for if your counters work on them.
    3. Watch a fatboss vid on the boss. Now you also know what those attacks look like. Can't get that from the dungeon journal, but if you're too lazy you'll know after the first couple of wipes.
    4. Review said dungeon journal again between wipes and look at the "what killed you" button to see what's killing the group.

    Usually that'll do it.
    Most of the bosses have an energy bar as well that when it reaches 100 (or depletes, or whatever) does something, plus they have audio cues as well when some abilities are being casted. Still helps knowing WHEN the ability is coming imo, the timers are pretty handy.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    I'm still amazed how many people resist coming into a raid with mods/food/flasks etc prepared.
    If you need food/flask/potions to kill normal or heroic bosses, you might be one of the baddies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leih View Post
    It's funny how easily people who have been gaming for years forget that having the coordination just to even use your keyboard and mouse in conjunction to move and attack at the same time is a relatively advanced and difficult skill for the vast majority of adults who aren't used to gaming, and WoW attracts a lot of non-gamers and casual players who aren't nearly as advanced as all that.

    When my Dad plays WoW, he will have to stop moving, look down at the keyboard and find his number keys in order to start hitting his keybindings, and he spends most of the time looking at the keyboard to make sure he's hitting the right keys. He's just got no experience playing PC games and doesn't have the hand-eye coordination or muscle memory to use both his mouse AND keyboard at the same time while also being able to look at the screen, be aware of his position AND on top of that have the headspace to memorize mechanics and pay attention to the timers and announcements on a boss mod. He's cleared LFR playing like this, but he would never get anywhere in Heroic. It's not like he doesn't try, but he would need a lot of practice and time but due to work and other commitments he only plays for like 2-3 hours one evening a week.

    It's easy to forget when you're a 16-25 year old gamer that not everyone is on the same natural level as you are, and things that seem "easy" for you are long established skills you picked up with time.
    Is he a construction worker or something?

    Can't have an office job without knowing where the number keys are.
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  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphatorg View Post
    I know this has a high chance of degenerating into a troll thread, but it's a question I genuinely ask myself while pugging.

    Unless you're in a very ambitious mythic guild wow is a very easy game, both in terms of theory and mechanics.

    1 read up your spec on icy veins
    2 DL a boss mod, if you're a healer maybe DL some raid frames
    3 go to wago and DL the highest rated WA package for your class, maybe a raid WA package like those from Reloe (both optional)
    4 during encounter look at the output of your boss mod every 15-20 seconds

    Congrats! You're a good heroic raider now and you can probably join and compete in a triple digit mythic guild.

    So how is it that so many people struggle in heroic? Even if you don't do any of the above steps "move out of shit" alone will be enough for the vast majority of hc encounters and I don't think it takes any kind of talent to step out of shit on a scripted timer that announces what's coming up minutes in advance.

    Let's get the obvious explanations out of the way first:
    -People don't know the encounters: I mostly do my pugging in 960/965 groups, you have to clear HC a couple of times for that ilvl
    -People just don't care: again - 960/965 groups full of angry nerds who will likely kick you if you fail too badly and not having to look for another group is a strong incentive I guess
    I also encounter this problem in some mythic guilds where by definition people are at least a bit ambitious and obviously know the encounters.
    even for the best players it takes 100 plus attempts for a group to take down most bosses, casual players dont put in that time so they wont be as good, knowing a fight and properly knowing it are 2 different things, can mean the difference between top tier performnace and average performance.

    Even in heroic raiding if you dont know the fights you can easily mess it up for the entire raid, also icy veins and such is pretty useless in actually knowing your class, you need to look into the class yourself and play it alot and test everything out before you can actually play a class well.
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  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    If you need food/flask/potions to kill normal or heroic bosses, you might be one of the baddies.
    Missed the entire point attempting to be clever.
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  13. #453
    Scarab Lord dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    Missed the entire point attempting to be clever.
    I'd of responded something about carrying people so hard it's easier with a flash/pots/food BUT.. My logs suck ass so ;D

    huehuehueeee

  14. #454
    This is why all you have to do is look at the meters and see what people aren't doing mechanics or pulling their weight and just kick them and replace them with someone that has a brain. I ask once and call out people by name letting them know we all know they are messing up and if they do it again it's an instant kick and replace.

    No time for newbs trying to waste peoples time.

  15. #455
    Scarab Lord Leih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post

    Is he a construction worker or something?

    Can't have an office job without knowing where the number keys are.
    Congratulations on being one of the people I was talking about

    "Knowing where the number keys are" and "being able to wrap your head around using the mouse to orientate your camera, move your character and simultaneously execute those key presses accurately without looking at the keyboard - all the while keeping your mind on what's actually happening in the encounter and reacting to mechanics and moving out of fire" is a very different thing. Most people who've been gaming a while, especially since they were children, completely take for granted that using the controls like this is a learned skill and even people in "office jobs" if they've never played games before will struggle with this for a while... and WoW has attracted a LOT of people who don't traditionally play games over the years.
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  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    If you need food/flask/potions to kill normal or heroic bosses, you might be one of the baddies.
    Good bait. You must not realize, but using excessive min-max is mostly how you can recognize a top player. No one wants to keep lots of little mental reminders to do this or that in their mind. No, instead you make everything a habit. So it will take you effort to NOT pre-pot, to NOT position yourself properly, to NOT follow your rotation perfectly, and so on.

  17. #457
    Herald of the Titans Lora's Avatar
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    honestly the main issues with being bad at raiding is completely time devoted to learning basic shit/having a steady toaster that doesnt shit the bed and showing up, toss in social problems IE motivation or not getting along with other people and can be a shit show. addons are honestly a crutch and not essential for raiding, I tend to run as barebones as possible because I just don't like having too much clutter. just make sure your gears enchanted/gemmed/flasked and you dont stand in bad and stand in the good and you will be solid. its especially fun when people who havent a clue about your class tell you how to best play it as if they put in the time to theorycraft themselves on it.

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  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevied View Post
    Back in BC gear carried the player

    Now, gear means nothing
    No, it means a lot. Take GoL Holy Paladin build - without good amount of Haste, it doesn't really work.

    But overall it's a good thing that gear is no longer a sledgehammer you can use to punch your way through the world and content.

  19. #459
    I was a pretty solid raider back in TbC. I was quick to figure out boss mechanics, never died from standing in stuff or break any sheeps, while pushing my class to it's limits (riding the aggro line back then was fun!). That Hand of A'dal title didn't come for free.

    But I had to stop raiding towards the end of WotlK and in the meantime I've simply gotten old. There's no way around it; I can tell my reflexes and what not aren't as fast anymore. And while my reflexes slowed down and I devoted most of my time to other things than WoW the game got faster, more action orriented, and lots of players got more impatient and ... not so plessant (partly due to cross-servers I imagine).

    I pretty much never even PUG anymore except when my professions or unlocking a new race forces me to. I'll still read up on boss mechanics before going into even a 5man dungeon on normal ... but that doesn't change the fact that I feel old now.

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by kevincuomo View Post
    This is why all you have to do is look at the meters and see what people aren't doing mechanics or pulling their weight and just kick them and replace them with someone that has a brain. I ask once and call out people by name letting them know we all know they are messing up and if they do it again it's an instant kick and replace.

    No time for newbs trying to waste peoples time.
    This.

    Don't have time to teach people who's "first time" in a raid is literally the end of the patch cycle.

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