Why are people bad at wow/raiding.

[Vaelorian]

If you're to MAKE people play the game YOU want them to play... you could also pay their subs.
If you don't PAY their subs, then stfu.
Oh, it's a online game and people MUST know how to play with others? Tough shit, don't like it, don't play it.

So then the answer is: do not play any online game where you are affected by other players?
Or is the moral answer: If you want to play a game that is an online game with other players, why in gods name do you not go with the flow. Why not act as how you want to be treated. Because what happens if everyone does what "these" players do, the game would come to a halt. So why do you want to play such a game if you cannot commit to that? It most def. is not suited for you. But no: they still come to this game and become a liability or hindrance to people who do commit. And I am not talking about a great level of commitment either. Nor talking about huge amounts of DPS. There is a difference between people whom you can see want to play properly and people who just do not give a shit and leech.

Leeches are the ones whom I wish just got another type of game. But ultimately it does not matter what I think or anyone thinks. The ones leeching will still be able to come to the game (pay a sub) and do whatever they want. God knows why they want to do it like that.

[Deleted]

When I see a really bad player, I'm no longer mad or want to mock him, because every time I think that it might be a kid. I see how my 12 year old son is playing video games (Diablo, Starcraft, some WoW on small levels), I saw my nephew play WoW - god, they are clueless, slow, have no idea of add-ons. They just don't know what it means to "play well", I remember the times 10 years ago, when I was as much clueless - those were the best times )))

Pro gamer in the making!

[Archonite]

Because they don't care to be better.

I think this is the essence of it, and i dont mean that in a bad way. For example, i like reading. But i never had the desire to go online to read up on good literature and book suggestions, or practice speed reading to improve myself.
Or take for example people who go out at weekends to drink and dance. Do you believe they read up on proper dance moves and what music is considered popular? Or that they bring their own glasses and icecubes for their drinks? Everyone has things they enjoy without feeling the need to improve in it, because they just do them to relax and have fun.

For many people gaming is like that too. They dont care about reading up on addons, raiding strategies and class guides. They dont care about being better at it, because that would take away from the relaxed and fun nature of the activity for them. They already have other things they put their energy and attention towards. Some games can split these people by MMR, other games are single player only. But in WoW theres no such thing as MMR, people of all backgrounds are put together in the same game world with very minimal restrictions on what you can do and who you can play with.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I don't know, why are you bad at the things you're bad at? There are probably loads of people who find those things really easy.

[Utok]

No desire to be better as they have no need to.

I wouldn't blame age for this, there are plenty of kids that are really good at games.

[Zephire]

This so much:

It's funny how easily people who have been gaming for years forget that having the coordination just to even use your keyboard and mouse in conjunction to move and attack at the same time is a relatively advanced and difficult skill for the vast majority of adults who aren't used to gaming, and WoW attracts a lot of non-gamers and casual players who aren't nearly as advanced as all that.

When my Dad plays WoW, he will have to stop moving, look down at the keyboard and find his number keys in order to start hitting his keybindings, and he spends most of the time looking at the keyboard to make sure he's hitting the right keys. He's just got no experience playing PC games and doesn't have the hand-eye coordination or muscle memory to use both his mouse AND keyboard at the same time while also being able to look at the screen, be aware of his position AND on top of that have the headspace to memorize mechanics and pay attention to the timers and announcements on a boss mod. He's cleared LFR playing like this, but he would never get anywhere in Heroic. It's not like he doesn't try, but he would need a lot of practice and time but due to work and other commitments he only plays for like 2-3 hours one evening a week.

It's easy to forget when you're a 16-25 year old gamer that not everyone is on the same natural level as you are, and things that seem "easy" for you are long established skills you picked up with time.

Add to that lazy and/or chilling people and people that multitask things while raiding. Still think that's a minority. Most people would probably fall into Thaeha's told category.

[Goretex]

One thing i think some of you are missing. Is that in heroic or Mythic raiding set bonuses and your artifact do matter. Getting a chest weekly with decent gear just won't cut it. And of course people do need to know strats and keep their gear gemmed and enchanted, It matters.

[Ozyorkbourne]

My gf doesn't want to read up on things because she doesn't want other people telling her how to play, instead she plays the way she wants even if it's not optimal but she's also having more fun that way.

That's fine for solo content and LFR, but for something like raiding or arena where your game play can have an adverse affect on your 'team' I feel like that's a bit inconsiderate and it shouldn't be a suprise when they're kicked for being subpar.

Like, I don't do arena because i'm garbage at it.

[Hyral]

I think the main issue is the ability to be a good player/raider has been discarded in favor of the ability to be a good monkey. A lot of people rather experience and learn a game by playing than mimic someone else on a screen. Unfortunately there's no place for those people anymore so they end up getting mixed up with the monkeys and ruining your experience.

[Aggrophobic]

If you don't have to be good to be rewarded then people won't feel the need to get good at what they do. You can get the best rewards in game by doing just about nothing. Theres the problem.

[Najnaj]

Because a vast amount of people have more important things to worry about than WoW. A lot of people live difficult lives and come to WoW for a little breather and a little escape from reality. Op is laboring under the misconception that it is because people are stupid or ignorant when in reality it is because they don't care.

When interacting with people online we often make the fatal mistake of thinking that they are just like us. In reality, most people are not. Not everybody wants to be a mythic raider. I have been in an adult only guild for the last few years and we have some incredibly bright people...that fucking suck at WoW.

I am also friends with a very highly skilled and payed man who quit WoW after he failed to complete the quest that takes you from the Human starting area to the Inn in Goldshire...and this is a guy who makes at least 300k a year.

[Deleted]

1 read up your spec on icy veins

This is half the problem. People cookie cutter without understanding what they're doing. No amount of literature will turn people into capable players.

[Deleted]

Uhm, if people join a HC pug they want to do it themselves.
They choose wow to be their hobby, they choose to enter a heroic raid, they choose to play with other people, some complain about not getting curve, not killing stuff and even get angry about better players. I just started playing again with my shadow (942eq.) and I am beating people with 955/960 ilvl, these people dont ask for help, they insult me and the game and their bad luck.
This is the sad reality, so many players think they deserve stuff due to /played or ilvl but infact they cant even pull the dps to kill normal bosses.

I see your point and I agree although it has nothing to do with what I said.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

alcohol. that's what happened to me. back in wod, people stopped showing up to raid so we would scrounge to find people to fill, and while we were doing that i would say fuck it and drink beer. sometimes too much beer lol. made me a pretty shit mythic raider.

[Waldor666]

I still help players with class stuff to this day, as do many of my guildies. But I only help when its asked of me.

One of the best friends I made in WoD was a hunter I met in LFR, her dps as BM spec was much lower than mine despite being pretty close in gear. So after the wing was finished... out of the blue she whispers 'can u help me i don't know why my dps is so low don't know what I'm doing wrong'. So I invited her to group, looked through the logs for a couple bosses and quickly established some stuff: things like, she wasn't KCing on cooldown (less than a 3rd of my total KC casts) and also that she didn't always use Bestial Wrath.

So I helped her set up a couple of useful macros, stressed that KC was her nuke to always be pressed, and just gave her a general sense of the spec's priorities. Once she got used to doing the stuff we discussed and got some better-itermized gear (hers was lacking in Mastery), her dps shot up considerably.

The 'help' that people reject are the "excuse me i noticed that ur dps is really bad" tells out of nowhere. Give advice when you're asked for advice.

ur a good person

[Chemii]

I have no qualms with people being bad as long as they are willing to accept that there is a ceiling to what they can and can't do in game....that's the issue though, a lot of entitlement and "I pay a sub, I want everything" attitudes mean people expect too much without the level of dedication needed.

I'm not sure how I feel about it though, I regularly complain about pugs not being up to par yet I forget I've been playing for so long sometimes and things I don't even register as an obstacle, maybe do cause others a level of difficulty I can't appreciate anymore.

[Deleted]

most people start in LFR and expect similar difficulty's in normal or even HC. You also have to take into account that the majority of the gaming world, even in wow is not good. See for example Leauge of legends, where 48% of the players resides in silver rank and 20% even below that.

[HuxNeva]

Most people just don't care.
They most certainly don't want to read, or even watch a vid.
They see raid time as just a social thing, like going to the pub, eating/drinking/watching a vid on second screen etc. while goofing around
They are old and have atrophied reflexes (believe it or not, but Wow is especially designed not to require top reactions and be playable over high latency)

[kamuimac]

Correct but many regular heroic raiders don't log themselves and the logs you find of them are usually because someone else in their raid logged. And I've seen many people actually advocating against wcl because "it's 3rd party sites which shouldn't be required to play a game" or "omg dude i was not even trying to be good that run, don't judge me on some run where I was watching netflix"...........If you investigate their logs, wowprogress page, whatever else, you are an elitist prick who sorts people out because some random website told you they are bad.....it's kinda hard to reason with people nowadays and if you try to help them improve by pointing out their under performance, they just get butthurt and call you an elitist toxic tryhard.

if they are the majority of players in the game did you consider even for a slight moment that maybe its you who is wrong in the way you play the game not them ?

- - - Updated - - -

When I see a really bad player, I'm no longer mad or want to mock him, because every time I think that it might be a kid. I see how my 12 year old son is playing video games (Diablo, Starcraft, some WoW on small levels), I saw my nephew play WoW - god, they are clueless, slow, have no idea of add-ons. They just don't know what it means to "play well", I remember the times 10 years ago, when I was as much clueless - those were the best times )))

and this sums up why most of people dont give a single f... about performing well

[TwentyTwelve]

Because people have been rewarded countless times for not putting in any effort.

Blizzard have created this, I've always said the raiding scene overall gets worse and worse with each expansion.
I'm not saying the game should be made for elitists but at the same time it should not reward people who ignore everything because they're lazy to read or try and this isn't a LFR hate speech, although i dislike the state of LFR, there's far more issues than just that difficulty.

People don't have any respect at all, everything is puggable and flexible, It's hard to build and keep a guild stable when players mindsets are pretty much "easy to pug". So many guilds suffer from this in my opinion, Loads of guilds and guild raiders will say they want to go to the next step from heroic raiding, mythic, start raiding only for people to treat it like heroic in terms of, they don't have any commitment at all, as well as the typical raiders who then realise that mythic bosses don't fall over with loot pouring out without wiping a fair bit.

Flex is a good system for casual play but it's bad for the end state (Mythic) of the game in my opinion.
Class/specs are made more simple every single expansion, I've not looked into BFA at all but i heard they're adding GCD to DPS/Heal CDs? This will again lower the skill ceiling between good and bads because the bads will have more time to react now.
Just overall rewards are far too easy, LFR, WF/TF system, You don't need to ever actually raid (not including LFR as raiding) to even be BiS, yes getting all TF will be very very unlikely, but it is still possible just like winning the lottery, There are tons of people who are terrible for many reason who walk around in better gear than mythic raiders, heck what about Amanthuls Legendary, almost EVERY time i see someone with it, They suck.

Mythic plus is a joke that needs to die now, I love mythic plus but i don't like the current state of it, People aint got a clue on affixs, what anything does, but it dosen't matter, +15s are out scaled hard and are a joke now.

There will be many people just sprouting "It's a game" it legit takes less than 2 hours to get a rough idea of a class at an AVG level. Like one hour reading a guide and 1 hour messing about with what you just read, Alright lets say 6 hours, we all know the UI takes the most time. Most People are lazy, end off, remove all the very casual rewarding things and they will change.