Why are people bad at wow/raiding.

[Drusin]

Congrats! You're a good heroic raider now and you can probably join and compete in a triple digit mythic guild.

I always find it funny how some people think mythic raiders are some kind of elite gaming force lol. You aren't going to find crazy ass baller raiders until you're in like top 250 (being generous) even there you got your knuckleheads lol. If you can not fuck mechanics up and always be online for raid you can at least get a trial in a mythic guild, assuming you are also average in your damage/healing/whatever. And I'm willing to bet (without any evidence :O internet bet) that every guild has that one guy who is great at his class, and he won't fuck mechanics up, just don't ask him to do anything special because he'll likely fuck that up lol.

RL: We're gonna have a soak group move out and catch the herp then spread 5 yards so the herp doesn't stack and morph into the derp.
RL: Alright, let's have Phil, Mark, Brian, Carl and Fred be the soak group
Fred: ...
RL: Oh wait no, no sorry not Fred, Andrew you'll be the 5th

If you ever see/hear that in chat, just know Fred is the guy who will probably top meters and never get called out for fucking up but they know better than to ask him to do any kind of assignment lol. Matter fact now that I'm on a rant, if you ever look at logs and you see someone with great gear but their dps isn't what it should be they are probably the Phil of the group, who can put up decent numbers but where Phil excels is his ability to do any fucking job. You need someone to handle 3 different tasks at once, monitor debuffs on a group, call out who is next in some list, watch all the adds hp, heal the raid, main tank, and do range dps all at the same time, Phil is your man. He'll never do great damage but Phil is your MVP.

[Socialhealer]

I once saw a guy riding a unicycle while juggling flaming torches. Like, how the hell did he do that? I cant do either of those things, and he did them simultanously. I guess it was just a hallucination, or he was cheating or something. Because i cant do that no matter how much i practice it, therefor it must be impossible.

oh i actually have the rank 1 ragnaros 25 heroic ele shaman dps thanks.

but doing that with clicking all my abilities? no fucking way that's just insane, you realise elemental could cast and move? so i'd be having to move while clicking all the time, it's possible to play like that, but you're never pulling 95% percentile unless it's literally a patchwerk fight and you got super lucky procs.

[potis]

I always find it funny how some people think mythic raiders are some kind of elite gaming force lol.

They are for the majority of the game though.

I am not gonna be kind to create different names, you are either a Phil, or you dont belong to proper Mythic raiding, but thats impossible dreams, which is why i do not raid Mythic anymore for years now, enough Freds.

And for those that know better, or to tell apart players quickly and their skill level, you pretty much know most Mythic guilds are 15 Freds, few of those have like 10-20% Phil in them but only for that specific class and 5 Freds have a bit more % Phil in them generally.,and because they eventually overgear the place they kill stuff cause the margin of error reduces.

I believe around Top 20 is where Freds start appearing (But good Freds) in the rankings, and around Top 200 is where they multiply, Top 500+ is where they overpopulate.

Anyone that posts something like 3/12 Mythic leader for their Normal PuG 10 days before the next raid is releasing is 110% a Fred.

And ignoring Freds and Phils, the average WoW player is your drooling cousin Doug that you are positive there is some sort of incest going on in there, someone cant be that stupid but somehow survived to grow up.

Which makes you realize what an amazing player Fred is!

[Deleted]

It's fundementally broken when you can't play a game without third party software to enhance the experience in such a way that it tells you what to do, because there are neither visual, audio, or any ques what's going on in a encounter.

Blizzard really needs to fix the interface for raiding. Downloading third party software to play heroic is just a warning clock.

[potis]

It's fundementally broken when you can't play a game without third party software to enhance the experience in such a way that it tells you what to do, because there are neither visual, audio, or any ques what's going on in a encounter.

Blizzard really needs to fix the interface for raiding. Downloading third party software to play heroic is just a warning clock.

This was explained multiple times in the last years.

They can block boss mods in 10 seconds if they want to, they dont do it cause the game would slow down so much to unbelievably boring levels for a 2010+ game.

They would remove half irrelevant abilities that simply exist for healers to have something to do, add +1-2 seconds response time to every other ability.

They know their target group, if they made abilities for the 0.1%, the rest wouldnt be able to do shit, especially at how used to addons everyone is at the moment.

Aka you would go back to Vanilla/TBC abilities mostly, that are dangerous, but you had to be a mongoloid to get hit by them, or simply play with 250ms as the majority did back then.

Minor many abilities that can be fatal if stuck up = Activity = Fun.

3 Abilities each fight = I already did that in 2005.

They can add whatever minor shit they want to a fight because they know the addon will help the majority, therefor they can create more "fun" fights as they call it, they said this before themselves.

[Pickynerd]

It's all laziness.

this..

Why try if you can succeed by failing.

[Blamblam41]

Why are -people- bad? I have no clue. Probably because it's a game and they have more important shit.

Why am -I- bad? Because it's a game and I usually have more important shit.

Sort of a cyclical door really. Even if it's not that hard to google research on class mechanics, I'm not touching that shit until atleast mythic dungeons/normal raiding anyway. Not worth devoting the brain power to memory if I'm not atleast doing content that requires me to have half a brain.

[Restors]

I can only speak from my friend's POV who seems to struggle. He told me couple of times that he has hard time to keep up with his rotation, making sure to be ready to refresh the DoT, or react once some ability proccs in order to maintain high uptime. As soon he starts paying more attention to whats going on around him, being prepared with timers whats bout to happen the next 7 seconds, or when the ability is about to occur again, he says his dps suffers from that.

Some people just have hard time you know. Not everyone can be top notch. And I respect that tbh. He tryes to have a good time in this game and tryes to do the best he can. I really can't ask much more of him.

[Deleted]

Why are -people- bad? I have no clue. Probably because it's a game and they have more important shit.

Why am -I- bad? Because it's a game and I usually have more important shit.

Sort of a cyclical door really. Even if it's not that hard to google research on class mechanics, I'm not touching that shit until atleast mythic dungeons/normal raiding anyway. Not worth devoting the brain power to memory if I'm not atleast doing content that requires me to have half a brain.

nothing wrong about that, but don't be surprised when you get kicked out of pugs...

[potis]

I can only speak from my friend's POV who seems to struggle. He told me couple of times that he has hard time to keep up with his rotation, making sure to be ready to refresh the DoT, or react once some ability proccs in order to maintain high uptime. As soon he starts paying more attention to whats going on around him, being prepared with timers whats bout to happen the next 7 seconds, or when the ability is about to occur again, he says his dps suffers from that.

Some people just have hard time you know. Not everyone can be top notch. And I respect that tbh. He tryes to have a good time in this game and tryes to do the best he can. I really can't ask much more of him.

This is mostly on how he was taught to play, or a terrible UI setting, if you were taught to play wrongly from the start, its hard to fix it.

I have a friend that with the combo of "LFR" "Wife" "New job" over the last 8 years he went from "he is okay" to "why the fuck are you so bad at times?", but if he bothers to create special cues for him he plays much better.

Which he does with the UI but rarely cause he is lazy, priorities arent the same anymore.

Your friend should probably try to find a way to find what works for him, like a weak aura sound to remind him

[Restors]

This is mostly on how he was taught to play, or a terrible UI setting, if you were taught to play wrongly from the start, its hard to fix it.

I have a friend that with the combo of "LFR" "Wife" "New job" over the last 8 years he went from "he is okay" to "why the fuck are you so bad at times?", but if he bothers to create special cues for him he plays much better.

Which he does with the UI but rarely cause he is lazy, priorities arent the same anymore.

Your friend should probably try to find a way to find what works for him, like a weak aura sound to remind him

Probably. I introduced both Elvui and Tukui to him aswell as Ipse's weakaura strings. He enjoys messing around with UI, moving UI around. Not sure how to help him more at this stage. Maybe weakaura with sound probably helps out.

[Monkeymoo]

The game doesn't really encourage you to be good. And while there have been bad players since the very beginning I do believe a contributer to it these days is all the cross server stuff. Back in the day if you were a bad player your server would know it and avoid grouping with you so if you wanted to do stuff like heroics and raid you had to be better. You can literally afk lfr and the odds of you ever seeing (or even remembering) any of the people in your group again are slim to none. Same with pugging. You can do N and H with completely random people every week. You may not be the WORST player but you certainly don't need to be the best. This is what I mean by the game doesn't encourage you to get better really. I'm not tryin to bash lfr and all that jazz, I just think it definitely doesn't help you care about giving it all you got when there's essentially no reason to and you're still clearing most content.

[Marrilaife]

They are for the majority of the game though.

I am not gonna be kind to create different names, you are either a Phil, or you dont belong to proper Mythic raiding, but thats impossible dreams, which is why i do not raid Mythic anymore for years now, enough Freds.

And for those that know better, or to tell apart players quickly and their skill level, you pretty much know most Mythic guilds are 15 Freds, few of those have like 10-20% Phil in them but only for that specific class and 5 Freds have a bit more % Phil in them generally.,and because they eventually overgear the place they kill stuff cause the margin of error reduces.

I believe around Top 20 is where Freds start appearing (But good Freds) in the rankings, and around Top 200 is where they multiply, Top 500+ is where they overpopulate.

Anyone that posts something like 3/12 Mythic leader for their Normal PuG 10 days before the next raid is releasing is 110% a Fred.

And ignoring Freds and Phils, the average WoW player is your drooling cousin Doug that you are positive there is some sort of incest going on in there, someone cant be that stupid but somehow survived to grow up.

Which makes you realize what an amazing player Fred is!

How many players raid mythic? 10%? Less? And how many of that sub 10% are "proper mythic raiding" in the way you and many others view it? Namely player exceptional in all aspects? Probably 1 in a 1000. So 0.1% of 10%? 0.01% of the playerbase? What surprises me is Blizzard cares to develop "proper mythic raiding" for these top players instead catering to the audience with majority of Freds that can somewhat stand and dps, and maybe handle 1 extra job, but only when the raid leader calls them loudly now is the time!

And then you realize this is still narrow audience in comparison to the masses of "I click random buttons for fun", people who don't even bother thinking about stuff like buff uptimes or priority system and consider such to be only of concern for uber nerds. People who gear for ilvl, consider things like stat weights and sims black magic, they might show up ungemmed and unenchanted, but funnily are gonna ask on forums "hey guys what's the best race for warlock?"

Pro players are outraged with the recent gcd changes on beta, but what if according to Blizzard internal data majority of playerbase consists of clickers, people with 200 ms, people who never discovered what's a "macro" and so forth? Obviously top pvpers and raiders are upset, but while you can give top players separate content (mythic raiding, high m+ keys, separate pvp ladder by rating), you can't give them separate class design.

[exochaft]

This was explained multiple times in the last years.

They can block boss mods in 10 seconds if they want to, they dont do it cause the game would slow down so much to unbelievably boring levels for a 2010+ game.

They would remove half irrelevant abilities that simply exist for healers to have something to do, add +1-2 seconds response time to every other ability.

They know their target group, if they made abilities for the 0.1%, the rest wouldnt be able to do shit, especially at how used to addons everyone is at the moment.

Aka you would go back to Vanilla/TBC abilities mostly, that are dangerous, but you had to be a mongoloid to get hit by them, or simply play with 250ms as the majority did back then.

Minor many abilities that can be fatal if stuck up = Activity = Fun.

3 Abilities each fight = I already did that in 2005.

They can add whatever minor shit they want to a fight because they know the addon will help the majority, therefor they can create more "fun" fights as they call it, they said this before themselves.

I think you're missing the point, or I'm misinterpreting the point to which you are replying. I think the poster was complaining about the lack of in-game warnings and telegraphing of abilities, not the amount of abilities present. While my brain tends to recognize patterns after seeing them the first time and memorize said patterns without the need to even look at a boss mod addon, not all people are like that. Some abilities are telegraphed really well, or have predictable cast times and intervals... then there are abilities that just happen with no warning at all, but are still pretty important to know that they happened or will happen. Blizz has gotten much better over the years when it comes to telegraphing abilities and UI information improvements via visuals, sounds, and voice queues, but some class abilities/buffs are hard to track and some raid mechanics (especially mythic raiding mechanics) can be insanely difficult for your entire group to survive without external add-ons. Heck, some abilities are just wonky and you have to experiment and die to over and over just to figure out what it does and its limits, let alone the timing and coordination that follows afterwards.

Anyways, back more to the topic. Some people just aren't cut out for the reaction time and coordination the game requires at certain difficulties, simple as that. Some people don't care, as they don't get enjoyment from min/maxing to death. Some people don't have the time to devote to WoW to hone those skills. Some are lazy... alright, a lot are probably lazy and just don't want to be bothered with doing that one mechanic because DPS meters or something like that. I'll pull the generational card and say that the newer generation in WoW is much lazier and spoiled than the generation that started playing WoW, and they can get off my digital lawn, the young whippersnappers that they are!

[Drusin]

I can only speak from my friend's POV who seems to struggle. He told me couple of times that he has hard time to keep up with his rotation, making sure to be ready to refresh the DoT, or react once some ability proccs in order to maintain high uptime. As soon he starts paying more attention to whats going on around him, being prepared with timers whats bout to happen the next 7 seconds, or when the ability is about to occur again, he says his dps suffers from that.

Some people just have hard time you know. Not everyone can be top notch. And I respect that tbh. He tryes to have a good time in this game and tryes to do the best he can. I really can't ask much more of him.

Just throw more addons at the problem

On my Resto Druid I use WA's with sound alerts to tell me when certain (Swiftmend + Wild Growth) come off CD, I don't have to look anywhere I'll hear a distinct sound and know. I have an incredibly obnoxious WA for when Lifebloom falls off, not sound just big ass text that spans the entire screen and a little progress box next to my frames so I have a reference for the remaining time.

On my lock I have pandemic dot trackers for all my dots, normal looking icons for my spells means the dots are up, green icon means I'm in the pandemic window and I should recast, red icon means I'm dumb af and my dot has fallen off. I like my UI to inform me without me having to really look at it, I can see those icons anywhere on my screen out of the "corner of my eye" and I can tell which ability I need to cast.

You just have to use them lol, no point in making some complex UI and then ignoring it.

[alturic]

I can only speak from my friend's POV who seems to struggle. He told me couple of times that he has hard time to keep up with his rotation, making sure to be ready to refresh the DoT, or react once some ability proccs in order to maintain high uptime. As soon he starts paying more attention to whats going on around him, being prepared with timers whats bout to happen the next 7 seconds, or when the ability is about to occur again, he says his dps suffers from that.

Some people just have hard time you know. Not everyone can be top notch. And I respect that tbh. He tryes to have a good time in this game and tryes to do the best he can. I really can't ask much more of him.

Perhaps he has tunnel vision and instead of watching the field of view, he's constantly watching the meters to make sure he's keeping up with the rest of the pack, which in turn puts him further behind the rest of the pack.

I do agree that certain people simply can't keep track of multiple things, but I like to think it's more of an age/prior gaming experience/computer usage in general thing. For example, I'd think someone who types with two fingers would be a terrible player, etc.

[Alphatorg]

How many players raid mythic? 10%? Less? And how many of that sub 10% are "proper mythic raiding" in the way you and many others view it? Namely player exceptional in all aspects? Probably 1 in a 1000. So 0.1% of 10%? 0.01% of the playerbase? What surprises me is Blizzard cares to develop "proper mythic raiding" for these top players instead catering to the audience with majority of Freds that can somewhat stand and dps, and maybe handle 1 extra job, but only when the raid leader calls them loudly now is the time!

And then you realize this is still narrow audience in comparison to the masses of "I click random buttons for fun", people who don't even bother thinking about stuff like buff uptimes or priority system and consider such to be only of concern for uber nerds. People who gear for ilvl, consider things like stat weights and sims black magic, they might show up ungemmed and unenchanted, but funnily are gonna ask on forums "hey guys what's the best race for warlock?"

Pro players are outraged with the recent gcd changes on beta, but what if according to Blizzard internal data majority of playerbase consists of clickers, people with 200 ms, people who never discovered what's a "macro" and so forth? Obviously top pvpers and raiders are upset, but while you can give top players separate content (mythic raiding, high m+ keys, separate pvp ladder by rating), you can't give them separate class design.

Because top level game play is the carrot.
If they want to make the game more bad friendly then imho they have to do that via talents that give players the option to reduce complexity at a moderate cost to output potential. Like for example IF vs Rune of Power for mages or Aff Locks t100 where you can choose either another dot or two passive, so you can accommodate every step on the skill ladder. But that discussion is probably off topic.

Congratz, you played yourself.

Why are people bad at using their brain?

Please do elaborate on that point.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Game is relatively easy, that’s true, but many people living in different places having different computers, different internet connections and graphic cards may also cause issues. I just noticed I run 25 FPS during boss fight and wonder why my ice lance doesn’t hit flurry on time. It never bothered me I never felt the lag unless I bought new setup and compared it, the difference was beyond damn imagining. Next thing some fights require high movement, which causes big down time in dps, and by doing tactics as correctly as possible I struggle a lot, it improves though when I learn the fight and start premoving to Dbm timers, but still there is so much to learn here and I guess it comes with experience. Another thing that bothers me is that some classes or specs have much better log percentiles than others, it’s based on item level as well or how fast the guild kill the boss, not to mention some people just lie on logs, heal as dps/dps as healer, cheese fights, etc. There are people of course who are that lazy and insolent at the same time to come on high mythic plus keys for example, and argue why did I bloodlust Medivh on tyrannical, completely omitting the fact that lack of interrupts caused the wipe. I don’t think they will ever improve, because they don’t realize their mistakes or they just simply don’t care. They just have the hard time too being blamed everyday by other people so I guess none likes to live like this, so either they will quit the game or start reading up, or eventually extending their ignore list. Haha

[Marrilaife]

Because top level game play is the carrot.

To the very, very few. When Legion upped the barriers to entry for "top level game" we haven't seen since TBC, and diminished rewards for it, we've seen waves of guilds disbanding, "going casual" and generally stepping down because "it's a reward on its own" only holds value to a very narrow group.

On a different scale, you see tons of people, even on this forum, saying "I don't raid mythic, not worth the hassle". The difference between an average heroic raider and some world rank 3000 mythic guild is only that - willingness to raid mythic. Many could, but don't want to. There's also this widespread belief mythic should be designed and balanced for top 20-50 guilds, and not for the 1000-3000 guilds. This always made me wonder, why not balance it around the typical people who participate in it, instead of the super top echelon? Most middle of the pack mythic guilds will not only struggle with the skill deficit, but also "roster boss", guild volatility, burnout, quitters, mythic tourists who join a guild for 2-3 weeks then decide it's not for them, social friction, drama, problems with class composition, skill disparity between the top and bottom player within 1 guild and so forth.

Officer and guild master burnout in these guilds often happens, because trying to match expectations, handhold people through the content, patch roster and manage the social side of the guild is a task that by far exceeds the responsibilities average raider has to face.

Unfortunately Blizzard designs mythic for "perfect case scenario" only. Must have 20 players at all times, must have specific classes / specs for x boss, 1 person lagging out can easily mean a wipe, on top of it many bosses are designed for 150-300 wipes in that perfect scenario (so any non perfect one adds onto it) and the duration of each tier is so short you have really little wiggle room, on top of any guild hiccup like cancelled raids and roster problems being able to break it apart. After Nighthold both in TOS and in Antorus apparently Blizzard decided most mythic guilds shouldn't even finish the tier... The content is designed for less than 1% of the playerbase who can fulfill all the skill, dedication and organizational restrictions. Makes me wonder why bother even designing bosses that maybe 10k-20k players will see out of 5 million... And yea bosses like mythic Argus with extra phases and different mechanics aren't just "upscaled heroic", they require extra effort to make the mythic version.

Especially baffles me why did they go away from design like stacking raidwide buff overtime like in ICC / Dragon Soul. It allowed top guilds to chase that pristine "pre nerf" experience, preserved pecking order within the ladder of world ranks and kill dates, but opened the experience to wider audience by every passing week. And apparently according to wowhead, to this day there are realms out there where not only realm first mythic Argus but even KJ or Gul'dan are for grabs... (That should also be a call to finally merge those dead realms.)

[Alphatorg]

Officer and guild master burnout happens in every guild because you have to manage and sacrifice a lot of your free time for a bunch of ungrateful assholes without any kind of compensation aside from maybe the occasional mount or a save spot on the roster (which you would likely have anyway, since officers often are the more mature and better players of the guild). It has little to do with difficulty.

I wouldn't necessarily say that raids are balanced for the top. If it was they would balance around class stacking (one might say ToS was of course, but afaik Blizzard admitted that this kind of design route was a mistake), instead they design bosses that have very tough tuning for the gear you have during the first weeks of progression but get progressive nerfs via pantheon trinkets, raid drops and titan forge - essentially what you're asking for in your last paragraph, just with a different delivery method.

Your perfect case scenario claim is also widely off the mark. Aside from needing a Blood DK (who can be a twink because his gear wont matter at all) for Aggramar your class choices are wide open. And since all the gear/tf and trinkets that guilds have accumulated the level of execution that's required is far from perfect.

What would "designing for world 1k-3k" even mean? Imonar as the end boss? So that 300+ guilds clear in the first week and quit the game because it is too easy? Encounters so simple that every average raider masters them after 10 tries and then has to wait until the special part of the raid finally catches up so you can kill him?
Bosses that are designed to be played with 18 players and 5 resto Druids because you have to account for imperfect setups and player lag?