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  1. #141
    All the top guilds are one faction so they can easily trade players between them. They have all swapped a couple times throughout the expansions to being mostly Ally or mostly Horde for no real reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleros View Post
    Crossfaction Pve. Problem solved. Or a third faction called mercenary or whatever, so if you dont care at all about horde alliance theatre of useless wars you get any race into raids
    Crossfaction PVE should have happened for BFA but instead we get a backwards-momentum PVP story. Speaking of, PVP let's you masquerade as the opposing faction in battlegrounds, so why not just have that option in PVE raids as well??? Easy.
    "For years now I've found it to be a such a strange honor to be followed around the internet by expert interpreters, who take plain words in English and replace them with other, more loaded words in English." - Posted by Zarhym

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by thoriphes View Post
    Can anyone explain clearly why having all pro raiders playing horde is a problem?
    I fail to see the point.
    Because many look at the best guilds and copy them because “if they do it I must to”. What many fail to see is that unless you’re within that low percentage of world first hunting guilds it doesn’t really matter what faction you play.

    However it can cause a snowball effect with eventually making guilds to force to change faction just bbecause it will be easier to recruit if a large population already play one faction.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    Because many look at the best guilds and copy them because “if they do it I must to”. What many fail to see is that unless you’re within that low percentage of world first hunting guilds it doesn’t really matter what faction you play.

    However it can cause a snowball effect with eventually making guilds to force to change faction just bbecause it will be easier to recruit if a large population already play one faction.
    Even tho... why is it a problem? I fail to see it as a problem... you either make an investment to gain a benefit (biggest player pool), or get it for free (for those already playing horde and getting an influx of people).

    Where's the problem per-se?

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by thoriphes View Post
    Even tho... why is it a problem? I fail to see it as a problem... you either make an investment to gain a benefit (biggest player pool), or get it for free (for those already playing horde and getting an influx of people).

    Where's the problem per-se?
    The problem with one faction being vastly more popular is that guilds might be forced to change faction just to be able to keep a roster.

    If we had the top 5 being horde and the rest balanced it wouldn’t be an issue. As it is now there are only 20 Alliance guilds among the top 100 according to wowprogress. That is not a healthy balance.

  5. #145
    The problem started long ago in TBC (when horde got paladin with salvation, thus horde had all troughtput racials while alliance had only draenei and gnome to some extend)

    that continued all the way to WoD (or MoP.. can't remember) untill they decided to balance the racials on each faction

    During that time horde had noticable upper hand over alliance (Troll mini lust, orc blood fury...) So it was obvious that if you want to minmax in PvE, you HAVE to go Horde so that created imbalance betweem the guilds

    Now that the racials are more or less balanced, the choice is still Horde because everyone went to Horde in the past so the recuitment is easier


    As said before, giving alliance some overpowered racials (that would be totally deserving) would fix the problem in some time.

    New Hall of Fame achievements are good way to attempt to fix the disparity in factions

  6. #146
    They should shift from the Alliance/Horde primary factions into smaller factions that players can choose, sort of like how pvp in Guild Wars works. You should be able to switch between them if you want to with some sort of penalty/CD, but you should be able to raid with anyone you want. They could really spice things up with new systems while increasing flexibility for both players and the story, but it's probably easier for them to just drag out this two faction conflict until it's dead.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by thoriphes View Post
    Can anyone explain clearly why having all pro raiders playing horde is a problem?
    I fail to see the point.
    Because this is the game about having 2 factions and not 1. It also creates downhill slide effect, first affects top 20 guilds, then top 50, then top 100, then top 300, like the Talho's guild he was talking about, then it will come to the point 1 faction will completely die out in mythic raiding, that will affect heroic raiding next, and so forth. When there was no cross realm, you could see the same situation with server communities, if a server didn't have high end raiding, it slowly devolved into having next to nothing at all, and being low pop abandoned wasteland. And now we aren't talking about 1 server out of 200, we're talking about 1 faction out of 2.

    Mythic+ community is also affected, imo that's the biggest reason why everyone started converging on one faction, not even racials. We shouldn't really have a situation where people wanting to step up from casual to more hardcore are told "well tough shit, better fork 30$ for faction change or forget competitive m+ cuz all competitors play on the other faction". Might as well have a game with no factions if you can't balance them.

    It was exactly the same problem when all pvpers were humans. Afaik this was eradicated by not only splitting titles per faction, but also the fact your trinkets don't work in rated pvp so having "extra trinket" stopped being so strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by thoriphes View Post
    Even tho... why is it a problem? I fail to see it as a problem...
    Did you also fail to see the problem when every tank had to play a druid to be competitive (majority of NH and TOS)? Did you also tell them "just play a druid who cares"? Again, it's about removing a choice or giving players illusion of choice and then telling them "lol you chose wrong, sucks to be you".

    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    What is this incentive exactly where people move to the more populated side?
    More guilds to join. That's it. Not first guild you join might fit you, so you need options, especially if you don't play a fotm spec that majority of guilds would recruit. Then you might not fit into raiding days / hours of every guild. People don't wanna pay extortionate fees that can ramp up to hundreds of dollars just because they need to try a few guilds before they find the one they like. So we have everyone coming to 1 faction and mostly 3 servers (at least here on EU there's a huge drift towards Twisting Nether, Tarren Mill and Kazzak).

    It's the same problem from the other perspective, when you're guild that's recruiting. It's very common for a mythic guild to exchange majority of its roster over the course of an expansion (2 year span). People quit, burn out, have irl changes, are guild hoppers or for whatever other reason, player retention is a big problem, so you need to be ready to constantly replace them. Unless you're on one of those top hot servers, on the "correct" faction, trying to keep a roster together is the worst part of the mythic raiding.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by thoriphes View Post
    Can anyone explain clearly why having all pro raiders playing horde is a problem?
    I fail to see the point.
    It pushes a general population imbalance which makes it worse for everything.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by McFuu View Post
    There will never be a reverse of the faction imbalance. It's been here since Vanilla since Alliance had the "kid's side" stigma.
    Other than forcing guilds to move over there is nothing to be done. Removing racials from the equation, which started to become the reason Horde was preferred, will at least start to slow the leak. Now Horde is pretty much go to because of racials and imbalance. But outside of giving the Alliance game breaking abilities/racials to bring raiders back, it's never going to happen.

    Not to mention giving each faction their own raid content means very little, Horde will still have their own raids and that is what everyone will compete for. Even if an Alliance guild clears their mythic tier first, it will just be seen as players in the minor league vs the actual raids they want.

    The other part of cross faction raiding would require cross faction guilds. But that would cause more problems because then guilds are only going to look for Human/Gnome Mages or Troll Healers, etc... It would amplify the problem and really just drag in racials as the only deciding factor.

    When raiding became serious, racials were the deciding factor. With Blizz trying to homogenize challenges and mythic+ it only makes more sense to remove racials from the mix. This way Alliance guilds won't feel like they are a step down from Horde guilds.

    The Alliance has a massive player base, so it's not really players leaving that's the issue. It's players not staying. When people start to get serious into raiding it's because they are developing in the game, with a guild and they keep pushing. More hardcore raiders will stand up behind the current and outgoing hardcore raiders as they start to step down. But if a guild or players don't feel the need to have to switch factions in order to be relevant, they won't, and that switch largely stems from racials.
    The damage is done and there is an imbalance that simply can not be changed in the short term, it will likely never go away throughout what's left of WoW. But with the hole plugged, up and coming raiders will have less of a reason to switch.
    I mean.. usually new players or kids play Alliance because "They are the good guys" or "I can be Goku with the big muscles and super saiyan hair!"
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  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I mean.. usually new players or kids play Alliance because "They are the good guys" or "I can be Goku with the big muscles and super saiyan hair!"
    Except all the best raiders were alliance in Vanilla so that breaks your idea right there. This was because paladins and fear ward

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by taelon View Post
    Doesn't this mainly point out the issue of your specific realm? You could have also gone to the best alliance raiding realm?
    So i was wondering was going horde because alliance overal sucks to recruit or "Were leaving this realm anyway, might as well go for the best option and that is horde."
    (not sure what lvl of play your guild is, top 200 or full mythic clear within 3 months?)
    Yep, you hit the nail on the head. We first we're gonna transfer to the biggest alliance realm, and that was the plan we were going to do for like a month. But as you said "we might as well just go for the best option, and that is horde". So we changed our minds. It's just in the best intrest of the guilds survival. We've existed since molten core, we're quite "old skool".

    We've ended rank 296 or something like that. Dropped 50 ranks from aggramar tho :/

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