Titanforging gone out of hand.

[Osmeric]

TItanforging's big effect is to make carry-gearing much more effective. While your main is waiting for his rare high TF drops, there's a flood of lesser gear dropping he doesn't need, and it can all go to carries.

[HuxNeva]

The problem is that the Titanforge system was made for the casual part of the database.

That assumption is wrong. One of it's primary goals was, together with AP, an alternative to perpetual instance nerfs, the second being an enabler for 'alternative content' providing a chance for upgrades no matter what or with whom you are playing. It has succeeded remarkably well for both.

[Dudas]

The real advantage of titanforge is that people still raid lesser difficulties. For a M raider let's say, heroic clear help with nothing without titanforging. So he would no longer go to heroic. With titanforge he'll go and raid hc in a fast hour and clear it. It helps people that play on alts. It gives him a chance at an upgrade. Without titanforge less people would raid.

[Kaver]

That assumption is wrong. One of it's primary goals was, together with AP, an alternative to perpetual instance nerfs, the second being an enabler for 'alternative content' providing a chance for upgrades no matter what or with whom you are playing. It has succeeded remarkably well for both.

Sure, that are the official reasons for the Titanforge system. But you shouldn't be fooled by that. There are other ways to instance nerf. One is for example to simply introduce ilvl upgrades to the gear that are not driven by RNG, like used in the end of MoP and WoD. The real unspoken goal of the Titanforge system is to prolong the lifetime of expired content, satisfy the larger part of the player base (casuals) and thereby increase business to make more dollars.

The people who actually need instance nerfes and the mythic progression guilds that are not on the same level as Method, Limit etc. Most of the players in these guilds don't like the Titanforging.

TL;DR: Blizzard introduced Titanforging to prolong old content and make more money.

[HuxNeva]

Sure, that are the official reasons for the Titanforge system. But you shouldn't be fooled by that. There are other ways to instance nerf. One is for example to simply introduce ilvl upgrades to the gear that are not driven by RNG, like used in the end of MoP and WoD. The real unspoken goal of the Titanforge system is to prolong the lifetime of expired content, satisfy the larger part of the player base (casuals) and thereby increase business to make more dollars.

The people who actually need instance nerfes and the mythic progression guilds that are not on the same level as Method, Limit etc. Most of the players in these guilds don't like the Titanforging.

TL;DR: Blizzard introduced Titanforging to prolong old content and make more money.

Close, but no cigar. Simple ilvl upgrades didn't kill 'raid or die'. And those guildies you're talking about also didn't like the hard nerfs. Endgame diversity and a chance of getting an upgrade while helping out a friend is where it is at. Does it 'prolong' content? Of course. That's what engagement retention is about. But that doesn't mean they like you farming previous raid tiers for upgrades. In fact they specifically said this many times.

[Deleted]

Sure, that are the official reasons for the Titanforge system. But you shouldn't be fooled by that. There are other ways to instance nerf. One is for example to simply introduce ilvl upgrades to the gear that are not driven by RNG, like used in the end of MoP and WoD. The real unspoken goal of the Titanforge system is to prolong the lifetime of expired content, satisfy the larger part of the player base (casuals) and thereby increase business to make more dollars.

The people who actually need instance nerfes and the mythic progression guilds that are not on the same level as Method, Limit etc. Most of the players in these guilds don't like the Titanforging.

TL;DR: Blizzard introduced Titanforging to prolong old content and make more money.

I mean ... a random anonymous person wrote it on the internet so must be legit. Yeh.

[Kaver]

Close, but no cigar. Simple ilvl upgrades didn't kill 'raid or die'. And those guildies you're talking about also didn't like the hard nerfs. Endgame diversity and a chance of getting an upgrade while helping out a friend is where it is at. Does it 'prolong' content? Of course. That's what engagement retention is about. But that doesn't mean they like you farming previous raid tiers for upgrades. In fact they specifically said this many times.

I wish I could live in that pink fairytale world.. must be nice. Blizzard is a very, very, very big world wide company. Every system they implement is to increase business. Some system are bad for the game, but in the end they will up the cash flow. It's like an Adam Sandler or Nicolas Cage movie. Talentless and effortless, but it makes a ton of money.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean ... a random anonymous person wrote it on the internet so must be legit. Yeh.

I mean... It's common sense Of course Blizzard's goal is to make money. They are not run by gamers. They are run by investors. It would be very wierd if they made a system that was not intended to increase their revenue.

[HuxNeva]

I wish I could live in that pink fairytale world.. must be nice. Blizzard is a very, very, very big world wide company. Every system they implement is to increase business. Some system are bad for the game, but in the end they will up the cash flow. It's like an Adam Sandler or Nicolas Cage movie. Talentless and effortless, but it makes a ton of money.

'Every system they implement is to increase business' (duh!) doesn't mean your half baked theory on systems design philosophy is correct.

In my pink fairytale world I've found, with a low percentage of exceptions, those most opposed to the whole TF thing are either to dumb or too lazy to understand probability, or of a somewhat unsavory authoritarian persuasion in which strict stratification of the 'Ordnung muss sein' type holds a central position

[Interim]

Why should blizzard change WF/TF just because really hardcore players suffer from its randomness?

While you see them "unfair" because of their randomness, is that specific randomness that can make a casual player ( like me for example) reach a specific ilvl.

I know that ilvl doesn't mean you are skilled or not, but lets be honest, in almost every case is a requirement for every raid/dungeon to have more-than-xxx ilvl.

How can a casual player reach those numbers without spending hours of gameplay he may not have? Is not fair. Here is where titanforging shines, giving that boost.

If you see the nature of WF/TF, they are based in probability, a.k.a. LUCK; like every game's lootboxes. They have a reason to be. What if you ask a casino to make people who invest more money than others to have a more reliable reward? it's impossible.
Is that randomness what makes you invest more and more, to try again and again and see if you have luck the next time. It is how it works.

So, to sum up, they shouldn't change it, they have no real, important reason to.

entitlement. go millenial generation. if u dont have the time, find a new game, find a new hobby, or deal.

i didnt have time for my doctorate. now i cant drive a lamborghini cause i dotn make enough. its not fair.

[Artemol]

This has to be some mean prank from some Blizzard dude.

981.31 now.

[rebecca191]

This has to be some mean prank from some Blizzard dude.

981.31 now.

You should probably go buy a lottery ticket. 981 with only one item from mythic, WTF?

[Jastall]

This has to be some mean prank from some Blizzard dude.

981.31 now.

Yes, you got lucky, we get it. Care to post some logs of your performance, since ilvl seems to be oh so important and should result in you doing amazingly?

[Artemol]

Yes, you got lucky, we get it. Care to post some logs of your performance, since ilvl seems to be oh so important and should result in you doing amazingly?

i mean, u could just type in the name in warcraftlogs... i mean i did tell u what my char name and server was

[Deleted]

They are not run by gamers. They are run by investors. It would be very wierd if they made a system that was not intended to increase their revenue.

No, it's ran to a large extent by Chinese, who use data from Blizz games in stuff like sezame score / tencent credit. Doesn't affect you (yet?), does affect plenty other people. In terms of numbers - more than combined European countries. If you think revenue is the most important aspect of all this for the Chinese, you know nothing about Chinese. If you think Chinese have a similar mindset as you have, you know nothing about Chinese. Go learn. Learn more. Look deeper. For now your theories are barely elementary school level.

[Nubulous]

My ALT mage just got 980 Chest and 970 ring from Heroic. I have done about 5 clears or so of heroic ZERO mythic and I dont think ive even done a 15 mythic plus or really do mythic plus at all on it. Only 5 ilvls behind my BM Hunter Main who is 11/11M now although my IN BAG for Hunter is like 975...my equip is just lower cuz 2 piece tier 20 and 910 arcanocystal are still simming higher than other pieces

[Deleted]

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I think there are two kinds of people: the ones that love predictability, working their way down a checklist, an have clear 'done' or way-points, and then there are others, who hate this type of 'do your chores, press the leaver, get the reward' type of setup. I'm with the latter. I find 'dailies', point/currency based systems, 'quest' style incremental time-gated legendaries unbearably boring. to me those work for predictable reward situations realy feels like a second job instead of an adventure.

I wonder if the preference for these are related to other things like the (flawed, I know, but still useful) Myers–Briggs personality type classifications.

So what you are saying is that you do not like to work for the results, but the results should be the same for everyone regardless of the input? Sounds awfully familiar

[HuxNeva]

So what you are saying is that you do not like to work for the results, but the results should be the same for everyone regardless of the input? Sounds awfully familiar

I said nothing about the amount of effort at all. I'm comparing predictable (to me boring like chores, but to others comforting?) to stochastic (to me enjoyable like in adventurous, but to others chaotic) en asking whether preference of one or the other would be correlated to personality types.

[theburned]

I said nothing about the amount of effort at all. I'm comparing predictable (to me boring like chores, but to others comforting?) to stochastic (to me enjoyable like in adventurous, but to others chaotic) en asking whether preference of one or the other would be correlated to personality types.

Then there are all the RNG rewards in the game, there are some of both, if I put in some effort I want to know that I eventually get a reward, but I dont want to get a reward for no effort. Recently geared up 2 characters, one got 4p from heroic one raid and the other barely got anything from 2 hc raids (finished off the 4p from the mythic run I did later, because it got funneled to me) it just feels like shit that the disparity is so big between getting loot and getting the correct loot. So having some boring and predictable rewards help a lot for this as you know you can work towards something and you know how long it will take.... Should all loot be like either? No definitely not, but you want some of both so that you cant just luck out and you're decked and you can cover up some of your poor luck with some determined rewards.

[Osmeric]

if I put in some effort I want to know that I eventually get a reward, but I dont want to get a reward for no effort.

In a game where carrying is a thing, it will always be possible to get reward with little or no effort. And Blizzard clearly likes carrying; the ability to trade personal loot is designed for that.

[Palapop]

Saw a guy with "relinquished" trinket yday- ilvl 950. +40 ilvl's proc. that seems reasonable imo

NOT!