Garrosh to Sylvanas, there really isn't much difference.

[Unholyground]

They are setting Sylvanas / Nathanos up so she / he can leave the Horde to teach Dark Rangers, I have been saying it for some time now and it is becoming more obvious.

[Deleted]

The only teeny tiny problem wiht that being, if Sylvanas intended to raise them don't you think she would prehaps just maaaaybe send somebody capable of ressurrecting them as a part of the assalut?

Why? She usually (at least as shown in the starting zone) has the corpses taken to Deathknell. Why should she risk her few remaining Val'kyr when she has all the time in the world to clean up after a fight and take it slow?

I mean, I still don't think the orders are hers, she has usually tried taking the people from lands she conquered as slaves (living slaves, not undead ofc). I mean it is possible, she has concluded that this is too risky this time around, but simply bombing the vale and just leaving as few survivors as possible would serve the same purpose and issuing a written order to wipe out everything seems too much out of character to me.

[sighy]

Why? She usually (at least as shown in the starting zone) has the corpses taken to Deathknell. Why should she risk her few remaining Val'kyr when she has all the time in the world to clean up after a fight and take it slow?

I mean, I still don't think the orders are hers, she has usually tried taking the people from lands she conquered as slaves (living slaves, not undead ofc). I mean it is possible, she has concluded that this is too risky this time around, but simply bombing the vale and just leaving as few survivors as possible would serve the same purpose and issuing a written order to wipe out everything seems too much out of character to me.

I mean she did bomb Southshore n such after well over a decade(from end of wc3:tft to cata) of hostilites initiated by human incapability to accept existence of the Forsaken.

Admittedly i don't know the sequence of events in BfA, however a source of food is a very viable military target in terms of medieval(ish) period warfare. Then again if that was the case we would see the Horde taking the supplies so who knows.

[Leodric]

clearly she doesnt partecipated to the insurrection but anyway without that initial bargain they all died.
elysande had to made a choise and she predict right, clearly not interpreting what would happen in the middle



and nobody is saying that scourge isnt linked to the lk, but the power to command could be passed at will between the member. in all the campaing we see nathrezims and arthas passing the control of ghouls and zombies...
then arthas even ressed and controlled a frost wyrm with his power alone (ch4 legacy of the damned), why he should be in difficult with a banshee?

Because it is clearly stated that not Arthas controlled her, but the Lich King. You can play the tft campaign yourself to see. Sylvanas is the banshee queen, again you can't compare sylvanas to a common undead such as a frost wyrm. If he would have been able to control her, she wouldn't be able to betray him. He also didn't control Kel'thuzad for example, he stood with Arthas cause he was loyal to him.

The power to command could be yes who knows, that's head canon, I don't know how exactly it works, but in this particular case it was the lich king himself. Maybe they retconned it later in some chronicle book, but I don't think so.

[TickTickTick]

The only teeny tiny problem wiht that being, if Sylvanas intended to raise them don't you think she would prehaps just maaaaybe send somebody capable of ressurrecting them as a part of the assalut?

As someone already said, they dont have to be raised at the very moment of their deaths.

When Sylvanas first presents Garrosh the power of the val'kyr, the human corpses already are there. And I highly doubt that a group of humans just so happened to wander there. Also, each new forsaken post Wotlk is one turned by Sylvanas, not saved from LK's grasp. Do you think all of new generation forsaken are humans killed in Deathkneel? Yes, some of them could be the defias from around the place, but most of them are being transported here.

And as much as she wants a new "flesh" in her ranks, I doubt she is willing to raise them in public.

[Leodric]

I think even, if they didn't allow Tyrande to talk(because her anti-skill in diplomacy is truely astounding) the Nightborne would ultimately lean toward the Horde, because they jsut have so much in common, with the blood elves and the Night Elves only recently lifted the "arcane means execution" policy. Also we know for a fact that Blood Elves maintained contact after the Nighthold, which Night Elves didn't according to what Thalysra says in the unlock scenario.

It is kinda like Night Elves joining the alliance in Vanilla, because back then tehy didn't realy have a good reason for it either, after the battle at mount hyjal.

But if you are going to take this approach the army of the light are even bigger dicks in that regard

Yep, more leaning towards the Horde, but not so much to fight against the NE. Also I think the Night Elves had more reasons to join the Alliance than the Nightborne do. Orcs killed Cenarius (under Fel, but still). They were on Kalimdor settling near Ashenvale + Orcs having bargains with the trolls + tauren. It makes sense that they would need allies against such threat, especially seeing how the Orcs needed lumber.

About the Army of the light, I don't know if the Horde + Alliance helped them canon wise? I mean we as players helped them as representitives of our order hals afaik, that's why it makes for example sense to me that the Highmountain joined the Horde.

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I dont want to join the circlejerk

Do you know what a circle jerk is?

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They are setting Sylvanas / Nathanos up so she / he can leave the Horde to teach Dark Rangers, I have been saying it for some time now and it is becoming more obvious.

that would be nice. Could see that as a new class

[sighy]

Yep, more leaning towards the Horde, but not so much to fight against the NE. Also I think the Night Elves had more reasons to join the Alliance than the Nightborne do. Orcs killed Cenarius (under Fel, but still). They were on Kalimdor settling near Ashenvale + Orcs having bargains with the trolls + tauren. It makes sense that they would need allies against such threat, especially seeing how the Orcs needed lumber.

About the Army of the light, I don't know if the Horde + Alliance helped them canon wise? I mean we as players helped them as representitives of our order hals afaik, that's why it makes for example sense to me that the Highmountain joined the Horde.

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Do you know what a circle jerk is?

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that would be nice. Could see that as a new class

Night Elves and Orcs+friends were at peace and kinda lukewarm, if not friendly in the time between WC3 and vanilla, with open trade until Wrathgate. Also got a bit of a retcon, from their savage, vicious persona, in WC3.

I suppose people like Liadrin were looking for the next holiday destination then i suppose.

The whole faction thing got put on ice durning all of legion outside of Stormheim, where i just hate the alliance storyline with a passion. I mean i know why Greymane is there, but why the hell am i helping him fuck all our war effort against the legion? And if Rogers realy was from Southshore she would know that the Humans there have been harrassing the Forsaken, from the moment Forsaken were a thing. I mean what did they think was gonna happen, when the Forsaken just had egnouh? Suprise...exactly what ended up happening.(bit of an off topic rant, but whatever)

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As someone already said, they dont have to be raised at the very moment of their deaths.

When Sylvanas first presents Garrosh the power of the val'kyr, the human corpses already are there. And I highly doubt that a group of humans just so happened to wander there. Also, each new forsaken post Wotlk is one turned by Sylvanas, not saved from LK's grasp. Do you think all of new generation forsaken are humans killed in Deathkneel? Yes, some of them could be the defias from around the place, but most of them are being transported here.

And as much as she wants a new "flesh" in her ranks, I doubt she is willing to raise them in public.

In Silverpine for instance they do it on the spot in WPL they do it on the spot. Soo meh both work i say. (sidenote)I just find it rather odd that all the living family members of the Forsaken down south would demand the extermination of their undead relatives and want nothing to do with them.

[omeomorfismo]

Because it is clearly stated that not Arthas controlled her, but the Lich King. You can play the tft campaign yourself to see. Sylvanas is the banshee queen, again you can't compare sylvanas to a common undead such as a frost wyrm. If he would have been able to control her, she wouldn't be able to betray him. He also didn't control Kel'thuzad for example, he stood with Arthas cause he was loyal to him.

The power to command could be yes who knows, that's head canon, I don't know how exactly it works, but in this particular case it was the lich king himself. Maybe they retconned it later in some chronicle book, but I don't think so.

even ignoring that frost wyrm were the pinnacle of scourge army i doubt that sapphiron is a "common undead"...

and in chronicle3 pag 66 its said after the summon of archimonde "The demon lord then transferred control of the scourge to the dreadlords" meanwhile at pag 77
"he subtly influenced the scourge, sometimes causing the undeads to disobey their Legion masters and run amork"
the passing of undead control is definitely true and dks/necromancers have some power on them.

and still, even if all scourge is bounded to lk, arthas was the general, the one that managed all the conquest of lordaeron and quel'thalas.
isnt like that lk think a maneouvre, tell to arthas to say that order, ghoul A listen that order, lk let that ghoul A to do that order as a some weird puppets game.
lk can be even the master jailer of scourge still the orders were from arthas (and in general from the few with a limited free will as liches and dks)...

finally kel'thuzad is a special case, if i dont remeber wrong he was gifted with true free will thanks his deep loyalty.

[TickTickTick]

In Silverpine for instance they do it on the spot in WPL they do it on the spot. Soo meh both work i say. (sidenote)I just find it rather odd that all the living family members of the Forsaken down south would demand the extermination of their undead relatives and want nothing to do with them.

Makes sense considering she and her val'kyr are already there. Also at that time she probably didnt care about who anyone thinks, and TBH there was also this orc general who already witnessed the raising.
You know, its probably not that much of a secret that Sylvanas uses her val'kyr to create new forsaken, but I guess its kind of tabu and until someone doesnt see it themselves, they just dont allow that final thought of realization to get to their heads.
Imagine Sylvanas raising dead in front of Saurfang/Baine/whoever the troll leader is (lol). They'd leave the Horde in an instant if they witnessed it themselves.

One more example came to my head. We recover the corpse of Lord Godfrey who killed himself quite some time before we even get to Gilneas. The corpse got transported and raised in a more suitable place.

[Leodric]

even ignoring that frost wyrm were the pinnacle of scourge army i doubt that sapphiron is a "common undead"...

and in chronicle3 pag 66 its said after the summon of archimonde "The demon lord then transferred control of the scourge to the dreadlords" meanwhile at pag 77
"he subtly influenced the scourge, sometimes causing the undeads to disobey their Legion masters and run amork"
the passing of undead control is definitely true and dks/necromancers have some power on them.

and still, even if all scourge is bounded to lk, arthas was the general, the one that managed all the conquest of lordaeron and quel'thalas.
isnt like that lk think a maneouvre, tell to arthas to say that order, ghoul A listen that order, lk let that ghoul A to do that order as a some weird puppets game.
lk can be even the master jailer of scourge still the orders were from arthas (and in general from the few with a limited free will as liches and dks)...

finally kel'thuzad is a special case, if i dont remeber wrong he was gifted with true free will thanks his deep loyalty.

So what now, you mentioned frostwyrms and now you come with Sapphiron who is not a common frostwyrm just like Sylvanas is not a common Banshee.

Again you are arguing about something which completly dismisses what she has said herself. She even said she can't hear the voice of the Lich King in her head anymore, no mention of Arthas his voice or any mention of Arthas controlling her. So why would there be the possibility of Arthas controlling her when she betrayed him?

Also now you are mixing up orders (general) and mind control. He might have been a general or the leader during the campaign but there is a huge difference between someone ordering you stuff to do and actually controlling you. The control from the LK faded and so Sylvanas could do her stuff. Arthas also had no idea she was about to betray him that's why Sylvanas and her banshees led them to a trap and then shot him with the arrow. Doesn't sound to me that he controlled her, else he would have noticed it right? But the LK noticed that he was going to get betrayed by her and told him too late, because he knew he had no control over her anymore. Just play the campaign and you will see yourself.

[Koraggar]

Again you are arguing about something which completly dismisses what she has said herself. She even said she can't hear the voice of the Lich King in her head anymore, no mention of Arthas his voice or any mention of Arthas controlling her. So why would there be the possibility of Arthas controlling her when she betrayed him?

Also now you are mixing up orders (general) and mind control. He might have been a general or the leader during the campaign but there is a huge difference between someone ordering you stuff to do and actually controlling you. The control from the LK faded and so Sylvanas could do her stuff. Arthas also had no idea she was about to betray him that's why Sylvanas and her banshees led them to a trap and then shot him with the arrow. Doesn't sound to me that he controlled her, else he would have noticed it right? But the LK noticed that he was going to get betrayed by her and told him too late, because he knew he had no control over her anymore. Just play the campaign and you will see yourself.

Not 100% sure what this conversation is about but it sounds like you're debating who had control over Sylvanas when she didn't have free-will?

In Cataclysm she goes on a horseback ride with the Horde PC and descirbes her breaking free from Arthas' control.

Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: A similar fate befell all that would die to the Scourge war machine.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: In death, they were reborn as mindless undead.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: But Arthas was not invincible! With each passing day his power wanted - his grip over the will of the damned loosening.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: It was when Arthas was at his weakest that I struck!
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: And though the hour of his atonement had come, the worm managed to escape his fate, returning to the frozen wastes of Northrend.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: With Arthas gone, so too was the control he held over the undead masses of Lordaeron. After recovering my body, I freed the remaining Scourge that were left behind.

There are also scenes in Arthas: Rise of the Lich King and Blood of the Highborne where Arthas is clearly controlling her physically(e.g. using his hand to force her to do something)

My guess is it was both? Arthas had the ability to physically control her and make her do what he wanted, but the Lich King also had influence when Arthas wasn't directly controlling her.

[Leodric]

Not 100% sure what this conversation is about but it sounds like you're debating who had control over Sylvanas when she didn't have free-will?

In Cataclysm she goes on a horseback ride with the Horde PC and descirbes her breaking free from Arthas' control.




There are also scenes in Arthas: Rise of the Lich King and Blood of the Highborne where Arthas is clearly controlling her physically(e.g. using his hand to force her to do something)

My guess is it was both? Arthas had the ability to physically control her and make her do what he wanted, but the Lich King also had influence when Arthas wasn't directly controlling her.

Again, that's why I have said in my previous posts that it was technically ner'zhul as the Lich King who hold control over her and the Undead and acknowledged Arthas as being the general/DK who ordered the whole campaign.

technically speaking it was ner'zhul, when he lost power she regained control over herself again to betray him.
.

I can't imagine they retconed the whole idea that Ner'zhul losing power is the main factor why Arthas got weaker and the control over the Undead faded.

[mcastillo88]

As it's been said, Garrosh and Sylvanas have very different motives, and by comparison Sylvanas' story is still being written.
In classic, it was much more understood that the Forsaken were allied with the Horde for no real reason other than self preservation and that Thrall wanted a foothold in the Eastern Kingdoms. The Tauren, Trolls, and Orcs did not trust them, which is why Horde Forsaken Characters started off as Neutral with their own faction races, and likewise Orc/Tauren/Trolls were neutral with the Forsaken. While Sylvanas has always had a rebellious streak, starting in BC with the Blood Elves she started being more of a team player, although still focused on her own motives. In the years since, the Undead have become crucial in the horde, whether they like it or not.

I think that Sylvanas will always have an air of deception around her, but I think a big part of the expansion will be the "reveal" as to why Vol'jin picked her. And i think that it will be a character switch for her, realizing that she may still have more humanity than she previously acknowledged.

My suspicion is that after the first arc of the expac (when the war dies down because of some inevitable existential threat) there will be some Windrunner Sisters moment that will parallel Sylvanas's Undeath with Alleria's Void, and the result will be Sylvanas becoming a more credible leader by realizing she still has things to "live" for.

My 2 cents. But the people who hate Sylvanas will always hate Sylvanas, and will look right over the Orc Internment Camps that Humans had. *ahem*

[sighy]

As it's been said, Garrosh and Sylvanas have very different motives, and by comparison Sylvanas' story is still being written.
In classic, it was much more understood that the Forsaken were allied with the Horde for no real reason other than self preservation and that Thrall wanted a foothold in the Eastern Kingdoms. The Tauren, Trolls, and Orcs did not trust them, which is why Horde Forsaken Characters started off as Neutral with their own faction races, and likewise Orc/Tauren/Trolls were neutral with the Forsaken. While Sylvanas has always had a rebellious streak, starting in BC with the Blood Elves she started being more of a team player, although still focused on her own motives. In the years since, the Undead have become crucial in the horde, whether they like it or not.

I think that Sylvanas will always have an air of deception around her, but I think a big part of the expansion will be the "reveal" as to why Vol'jin picked her. And i think that it will be a character switch for her, realizing that she may still have more humanity than she previously acknowledged.

My suspicion is that after the first arc of the expac (when the war dies down because of some inevitable existential threat) there will be some Windrunner Sisters moment that will parallel Sylvanas's Undeath with Alleria's Void, and the result will be Sylvanas becoming a more credible leader by realizing she still has things to "live" for.

My 2 cents. But the people who hate Sylvanas will always hate Sylvanas, and will look right over the Orc Internment Camps that Humans had. *ahem*

I Agree mostly.

In chronicles it says they pretty much joined the Horde, because Quel'thalas declined their attempt at reconnecting and Stormwind(by extension places like southshore) responded with attempts at their extermination.

Sylvanas is a proven tactitian and proven to go the distance, for the people who choose to follow her. Heck it might be her branch of ruthlessness we need in order to win over the Naga, Azshara, N'zoth or whatever comes out way.

Weell as portrayed she believes going to the afterlife is the worst thing that can possibly happen to someone so there might be a theme comparing surviving and living.

[omeomorfismo]

So what now, you mentioned frostwyrms and now you come with Sapphiron who is not a common frostwyrm just like Sylvanas is not a common Banshee.

Again you are arguing about something which completly dismisses what she has said herself. She even said she can't hear the voice of the Lich King in her head anymore, no mention of Arthas his voice or any mention of Arthas controlling her. So why would there be the possibility of Arthas controlling her when she betrayed him?

Also now you are mixing up orders (general) and mind control. He might have been a general or the leader during the campaign but there is a huge difference between someone ordering you stuff to do and actually controlling you. The control from the LK faded and so Sylvanas could do her stuff. Arthas also had no idea she was about to betray him that's why Sylvanas and her banshees led them to a trap and then shot him with the arrow. Doesn't sound to me that he controlled her, else he would have noticed it right? But the LK noticed that he was going to get betrayed by her and told him too late, because he knew he had no control over her anymore. Just play the campaign and you will see yourself.

what? i was citing a chapter in w3 tft "return to northrend" where arthas raised sapphiron with his power alone under his command.

anyway. she said that she couldnt listen the voice of nerzhul in a w3 mission, but she sensed the moment arthas and lk mergeg, she even said it in edges of night short story that lk continued to tug her consciousness until his death and in legion dks can still listen lk voice. its more the lk telepathy and his temporary weakness than the control that he have over his undead, i mean, he even speak to kel'thuzad before he go to northrend...


and what im saying is that arthas controlled her specifically in quel'thalas invasion. after she become one commander like others in the scourge even because arthas went to kalimdor, so without possibility and utility to maintain the control on her. and the proof probably is sylvanas herself, she hated specifically arthas, a lot more than scourge or legion. why this if she was under lk command...


and btw even in the mission where arthas escape from capital city he expressly said
"Yes. With my powers drained, I can barely command my own warriors. The Lich King warned me that if I didn't reach Northrend soon, all could be lost."
and then the dreadlord
"you should never have returned, human. Weakened as you are, we have assumed control over the majority of your warriors. It seems your reign was short lived.".

then clearly, if lk want he can control the scourge controller but this is another thing.

[Leodric]

what? i was citing a chapter in w3 tft "return to northrend" where arthas raised sapphiron with his power alone under his command.

And? What does that have to do with sylvanas.

anyway. she said that she couldnt listen the voice of nerzhul in a w3 mission, but she sensed the moment arthas and lk mergeg

As I quoted from the mission, it clearly indicates that she regained control when Ner'zhul lost power and not Arthas specifically.
Dunno why you begin talking about the merging of arthas and the lk to be honest.

story that lk continued to tug her consciousness until his death and in legion dks can still listen lk voice. its more the lk telepathy and his temporary weakness than the control that he have over his undead, i mean, he even speak to kel'thuzad before he go to northrend...

Which just proves that technically the lk(which was at that point ner'zul and not Arthas) has controll over all that shit?

and what im saying is that arthas controlled her specifically in quel'thalas invasion. after she become one commander like others in the scourge even because arthas went to kalimdor, so without possibility and utility to maintain the control on her. and the proof probably is sylvanas herself, she hated specifically arthas, a lot more than scourge or legion. why this if she was under lk command...

So the proof that not ner'zhul at that time hold the power is because sylvanas hated specifically arthas? She said herself she couldn't hear the voices of the lk anymore and that's when she regained controll. Also I am not denying that she hates Arthas, never have.

and btw even in the mission where arthas escape from capital city he expressly said
"Yes. With my powers drained, I can barely command my own warriors. The Lich King warned me that if I didn't reach Northrend soon, all could be lost."
and then the dreadlord
"you should never have returned, human. Weakened as you are, we have assumed control over the majority of your warriors. It seems your reign was short lived.".

You seem to ignore the posts I write. Again for the maybe 4th time. Technically, which was the word I used and which seems to upset you, it's under ner'zhuls controll, all of that shit back then.

then clearly, if lk want he can control the scourge controller but this is another thing.

That's my entire point

Again, the whole mind control shit was technically initiated/controlled by ner'zhul. If he wanted to take it away he can, as he was at that time the being who controlled the scourge, before he gradually lost his power and afterwards Arthas took over.

[omeomorfismo]

And? What does that have to do with sylvanas.



As I quoted from the mission, it clearly indicates that she regained control when Ner'zhul lost power and not Arthas specifically.
Dunno why you begin talking about the merging of arthas and the lk to be honest.



Which just proves that technically the lk(which was at that point ner'zul and not Arthas) has controll over all that shit?


So the proof that not ner'zhul at that time hold the power is because sylvanas hated specifically arthas? She said herself she couldn't hear the voices of the lk anymore and that's when she regained controll. Also I am not denying that she hates Arthas, never have.


You seem to ignore the posts I write. Again for the maybe 4th time. Technically, which was the word I used and which seems to upset you, it's under ner'zhuls controll, all of that shit back then.


That's my entire point

Again, the whole mind control shit was technically initiated/controlled by ner'zhul. If he wanted to take it away he can, as he was at that time the being who controlled the scourge, before he gradually lost his power and afterwards Arthas took over.

its not. arthas ressed sylvanas performing a ritual to let her retain some form of self awareness. arthas was the one that lead all the invasion on quel'thalas.
there isnt a single instance where lk limited the free will of arthas. he could but he didnt, he acted nothing more as a jailer that bounded all the scourge under some form of spell to limit the free will of the units but the puppeteer was arthas.
i mean, isnt that if arthas ress someone, then that one isnt under the lk bound...

[Leodric]

there isnt a single instance where lk limited the free will of arthas. he could but he didnt, he acted nothing more as a jailer that bounded all the scourge under some form of spell to limit the free will of the units but the puppeteer was arthas.
i mean, isnt that if arthas ress someone, then that one isnt under the lk bound...

Wc3:
Lich King talking to Arthas: It is I, the Lich King. Danger draws near the Frozen Throne! You must return to Northrend immediately! Obey!
Kel'Thuzad: "My king, you are not well."
King Arthas: "Take me back to the capital. I have a long journey ahead of me."

Yes, everything is under the bound of the lich king in the scourge.

Another quote indicating that:
Lich King: "....the demonlord Kil'jaeden, sent his agents here to destroy me. If they should reach the Frozen Throne before you, all will be lost. The Scourge will be undone. Now hurry! I will grant you all the power I can spare".

Another point is also that there has to be a lich king, hence why Bolvar took the helm. If there is no LK the scourge goes rampant.

[Vynestra]

I'd say she's closer to arthas at this point, but I get your point.

She is going to die within the next couple of xpacs, or at the least she will not be warchief anymore.

Eventually it will all catch up to her. Will they probably want to avoid garrosh 2.0 since everyone expects it at this point and would hate it? Probably yeah.

But that doesn't mean she'll just get free reign to do w/e she wants.

[omeomorfismo]

Wc3:
Lich King talking to Arthas: It is I, the Lich King. Danger draws near the Frozen Throne! You must return to Northrend immediately! Obey!
Kel'Thuzad: "My king, you are not well."
King Arthas: "Take me back to the capital. I have a long journey ahead of me."

Yes, everything is under the bound of the lich king in the scourge.

Another quote indicating that:
Lich King: "....the demonlord Kil'jaeden, sent his agents here to destroy me. If they should reach the Frozen Throne before you, all will be lost. The Scourge will be undone. Now hurry! I will grant you all the power I can spare".

Another point is also that there has to be a lich king, hence why Bolvar took the helm. If there is no LK the scourge goes rampant.

wait, maybe i transated wrong from italian, i wanted to say that if arthas ress someone, like sapphiron or sylvanas or even random ghouls, they are still bound to the lk, even if they are under the control of someone else.
maybe in english hypotetical periods arent constructed in the same way, i dont know.

anyway start of chapter 18 of arthas novel, i dont copy the line because i have only in italian, he commands the scourge only with mental power.
chapter 19 after arthas raised her she started to listen lk voice that at some point saids (translating from my italian copy)
"you will serve for my glory, sylvanas. you will work for the death. you will have hungry of obedience. arthas is the first and more loved of my death knights; he will command you forever, and you will be happy of this."
then she try to answer to lk and said
"never" she said to the voice in her head "he can command my action, but he cant broke my will"
here is explicit, sylvanas is under arthas command meanwhile she is still bounded to lk... maybe in english is a bit differe, but i dont think it is completely different...