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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Tic Tacs View Post
    80% of the people who inhaled sarin gas die within days. Why are we talking about Skripal case when this is happening in Syria on a large scale? Mass media not interested?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN1HE0RR
    Says nobody's talking about it and then proceeds to quote Reuters... logic checks out!
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  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowyFanatic View Post
    This reeks of a false flag, especially when the word we're going on here are the "White Helmets" who have been definitively linked with Jihadi rebels. It makes no sense for Assad to gas his own people on the eve of the US signaling they want to leave Syria, the jihadis in the city agreeing to leave and the army having almost complete control of the area. Compound this with the fact that the last gas attack had no evidence of being conducted by Assad (admitted to a year later by Mattis himself) and that a chemical weapons factory was found in farmland near the area under the control of the jihadi's, it just is obvious this is the work of the jihadis trying to provoke the US into attacking their enemies. ISIS is essentially trying to get the US to act as its air force and people are eating it up. -_-
    It's only been a year and 4 days since the last chemical attack in syria previous to this one. Check your info, the UN concluded the one you're talking about to have been conducted by ISIL, and the one that happened a year ago to have been conducted by assad. Stop getting your news wherever you're getting it, because it's making you look clueless.
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  3. #123
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allybeboba View Post
    We launched some TLAMs at about this time last year after a gas attack as a “deterrent” against another one.

    OFP
    And Assad and Putin just waltz directly across the new red line Trump laid last year.

    Basically Trump has to bomb the shit out of Assad, or every "tough" thing he ever said is complete bullshit and he'll be exposed even more as the con-man I've said he is for 2 years.

    His entire credibility as Commander-in-Chief of the United States is on the line. The Red Line incident fatally wounded Obama's power. Will Trump create a sequel here? Because make no mistake: Russia and Assad had this happen in direct defiance of him. The US throws up a series of sanctions against Russia, some which will really bite Putin's inner circle. Trump says something moronic about leaving Syria that everyone with a brain scoffs at, and that opens the way to Assaed dumping a few barrels filled with chlorine gas out of some helicopters on the anniversary of Trump's Red line.

    He is being tested. He must respond, or he has no business being President.
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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    And Assad and Putin just waltz directly across the new red line Trump laid last year.

    Basically Trump has to bomb the shit out of Assad, or every "tough" thing he ever said is complete bullshit and he'll be exposed even more as the con-man I've said he is for 2 years.

    His entire credibility as Commander-in-Chief of the United States is on the line. The Red Line incident fatally wounded Obama's power. Will Trump create a sequel here? Because make no mistake: Russia and Assad had this happen in direct defiance of him. The US throws up a series of sanctions against Russia, some which will really bite Putin's inner circle. Trump says something moronic about leaving Syria that everyone with a brain scoffs at, and that opens the way to Assaed dumping a few barrels filled with chlorine gas out of some helicopters on the anniversary of Trump's Red line.

    He is being tested. He must respond, or he has no business being President.
    Does the American public even remember that he drew that line?

  5. #125
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    I care - The EU cares.
    France is ready to bomb them themselves.
    Most of the EU will go along with it.
    The refugee "crisis" has long since abated.

    And more to the point, if Europe has to have a role in security matters, it has to put some skin in the game. Living down the street from a troubled neighborhood isn't enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    So for a tactical victory in a theater that does not matter, you will inflict harm to your strategic allies?
    Europe has a lid on it's immigration issues. There is absolutely no reason the status quo can't perpetuate itself for years to come (in fact, it almost certainly will).

    But let's keep in mind something with Europe and it's "refugee crisis". We're talking about 1.5 million people in a Union of... what... 600 million? More than half the refugee crisis has been opportunistic politicians exploiting Europe's latent racism and ever present (and entirely unfounded) fears about decline of their unique cultural identities.

    Merkel was the one European who got it right by saying Europe should throw its doors open. She had the courage to speak to Europeans like adults. Essentially every other politician did the opposite.
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    His entire credibility as Commander-in-Chief of the United States is on the line.
    Nice meme, Skroe.

    10/10
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  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Does the American public even remember that he drew that line?
    I doubt it, most regular Americans have tuned everything out because they are tired of listening to it from both sides. They just go to work and then come home and do their thing.

  8. #128
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Does the American public even remember that he drew that line?
    Today, they are getting a reminder. Republicans and Democrats in Congress are getting on TV and tweeting and issuing statements reminding Trump about his obligations to uphold international norms.

    There will be no weaseling his way out of this one. Too much pressure, especially with John Bolton's first day tomorrow. And keep in mind John Bolton's bread and butter is exactly the thing I've been saying that various foreigners, particularly Russia-aligned ones, grimace at: that the US should respond disproportionately to aggression to remind, frankly, the likes of our adversaries, our friends and you, what real power is and who wields it.

    And it's not Vladmir-fucking-Putin.

    He ain't wrong. I mean policing operates on the same principle: use of force as a form of deterrence.

    In any event Donald Trump shall again betray the far-right isolationists by involving the US in a foreign war.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Nice meme, Skroe.

    10/10
    It's absolutely on point. These are the things Donald Trump, John Bolton and others *rightly* said about Barack Obama in 2013. And as we discussed at length in these forums in the after math of Obama's failure to enforce the red line, and the years following where the disaster of not doing so became apparent, Obama's credibility was shot. At home. Abroad. He was figured out: this was not a man of his word, this was a man who could be crossed.

    Now it's Trump's turn. He has the same test. Will he fail it like Obama? Because if he doesn't, he'll get nothing with China, NAFTA negotiations, with Iran, with North Korea, with Europe or anything else. Because everyone will know around the world that he is a man who makes empty threats. This is what Obama found. The Red line spilled over to the rest of his agenda.

    He sends a Assad and a bunch of his army to hell and delivers a humiliation to Vladmir Putin, and maybe in a bonus round "accidentally" drop some cluster bombs on some Russians, and he'll find that his power around the world will be magnified and he'll get more of everything he wants. He will find for the low cost of $1.5 billion in combat operations, he will earn the US even more negotiating power in every theater it is engaged in.

    And in the part that should truly horrify Trump's base, Russians and anti-American trolls the world over, the above point is EXACTLY what National Security Adviser John Bolton will be telling Trump on his first day, tomorrow at 9am. Because this is the stuff John Bolton has been saying for 20 years.
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  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    And Assad and Putin just waltz directly across the new red line Trump laid last year.

    Basically Trump has to bomb the shit out of Assad, or every "tough" thing he ever said is complete bullshit and he'll be exposed even more as the con-man I've said he is for 2 years.

    His entire credibility as Commander-in-Chief of the United States is on the line. The Red Line incident fatally wounded Obama's power. Will Trump create a sequel here? Because make no mistake: Russia and Assad had this happen in direct defiance of him. The US throws up a series of sanctions against Russia, some which will really bite Putin's inner circle. Trump says something moronic about leaving Syria that everyone with a brain scoffs at, and that opens the way to Assaed dumping a few barrels filled with chlorine gas out of some helicopters on the anniversary of Trump's Red line.

    He is being tested. He must respond, or he has no business being President.
    Your whole premise, your whole argument is based on the supposed fact that Assad was responsible for the gas attack. How stupid would Trump look if he throws a few bombs at a random Syrian airport like last time and it turns out ISIL was responsible?

  10. #130
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    Why in gods name would Assad use CW's?
    He is by any and all measures completely and totally winning - Resistance is literally months away from collapsing.
    Let me show you something. Watch this clip. It's from a TV show, but it makes the point. I love this clip. It is fiction, but makes the point so perfectly.



    Western Military power is designed about killing the enemy. About winning battles and wars. About securing objectives as efficiently as possible. If you want a direct example, even in the field of nuclear weaponry, the next generation of US nuclear weapons, that are going to replace the entire current Cold War legacy arsenal, will all be far smaller (a fifth the size in some case), but relying on increased accuracy to compensate for effectiveness (google Superfuses Nuclear Weapons).

    This contrasts against what Russia does, what China does, and what Assad does... which is to build military power to intimidate the enemy... the enemy almost meaning exclusively the people they rule. That explains Russia's farcical new nuclear weapons programs that are militarily useless horror weapons. That explains China's TV prop weapons. This explains Assad's use of chemical weapons.

    We in the west are obsessed with the military utility, that we rarely consider the utility of horror for a regime like Assad. He doesn't just want to secure his military objectives. He wants to invoke terror in order to compel the remaining resistance to collapse and there leave scars that prevent future uprisings.

    Weapons of War versus Weapons of Terror. Chemical weapons are not weapons of war. They ware meant to terrorize, and their use is as such. It is no different than war rape, mass executions, strategic warfare, and other things the West doesn't do in an organized fashion anymore, but the likes of Assad, Russia and others practice.

    And in so far as the "Resistance being literally months away from collapsing".... yeah, we've been hearing that one for the past 3 years. Fact is, Assad doesn't have the resources to hold more than about 50-55% of the country.
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Let me show you something. Watch this clip. It's from a TV show, but it makes the point. I love this clip. It is fiction, but makes the point so perfectly.
    Your video makes me think of another video



    I know the American empire gets your dick hard, Skroe, but from my point of view, and many on my political spectrum, all you are doing is war mongering.
    Last edited by Boomzy; 2018-04-08 at 11:23 PM.
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  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Tic Tacs View Post
    You need some sort of aircraft to carry out an attack of this type so various rebel groups are out of the question. According to multiple sources, SAA commander Suheil al-Hassan gave his army green light to use "all kinds of weapons" in Douma.

    No, you don't. Mortar and artillery grenades can be used to distribute chemical weapons, and have been used to do so for over a hundred years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    His entire credibility as Commander-in-Chief of the United States is on the line.
    He has any of that?

  13. #133
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torto View Post
    Your whole premise, your whole argument is based on the supposed fact that Assad was responsible for the gas attack. How stupid would Trump look if he throws a few bombs at a random Syrian airport like last time and it turns out ISIL was responsible?
    The ISIS that the US military has killed 65,000 of?
    The ISIS that is basically defunct?
    The ISIS that isn't operating anywhere near where this happened.
    The ISIS that doesn't have helicopters, or the ability to make chlorine gas?

    You people and your obsession with ISIS. Exactly what part of the Pentagon knocking ISIS down the totem pole of threats don't you folks understand. Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Space, Cyberspace, Afghanistan, ISIS/terrorism. That is the rough order of the US Military's focus. And it is the right order. Because a husk of an army of rapists and murderers living in desert cities on the other side of the planet does not require the full might of a $700 billion a year defense budget.

    It's Occam's razor demolishing, reason defying, to even imagine that anybody other than Assad, who has done this for years now, is responsible.

    I really hope when the likes of you and your kind look at the face of the gassed children are somehow satisfied with yourselves. who were only gassed because the US didn't do what is necessary in 2013, and then in 2017, while you obsessed with ISIS. Your ongoing moral harlotry in the face of this unspeakable evil.... why? To pursue a vanquished enemy? To secure a domestic political agenda? I hope it is worth it. The muslim rapist army you're worried about is yesterday's news. Today, it's all about state-level warfare.

    And that's exactly what this is. A message. From Putin to Trump. The US, and Trump, sanctions Putin's inner circle. The West responds unified to Russia's terrorist attack in the UK. Trump says some stupid shit about withdrawing from Syria, so on the one year anniversary, Putin and Assad remind Trump that they don't respect his authority in Syria. What's more likely, some laughable scenario that some fellows here have constructed whereby ISIS or the US used chlorine barrel bombs, or Assad did it with Russia's blessing?


    Occam's Razor, friend.

    I'm sorry, but Alt Right President Donald Trump is going to be told by his neocon national security adviser, and his former US General, now SecDef, Mattis, who is at the center of the US military orthodoxy on Russia and Syria (despise the former, bomb the latter) exactly what he has to do.

    Trump supporters get to watch.
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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post

    You people and your obsession with ISIS. Exactly what part of the Pentagon knocking ISIS down the totem pole of threats don't you folks understand. Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Space, Cyberspace, Afghanistan, ISIS/terrorism. That is the rough order of the US Military's focus. And it is the right order. Because a husk of an army of rapists and murderers living in desert cities on the other side of the planet does not require the full might of a $700 billion a year defense budget.
    That order being "correct" is probably why China and Russia are able to fuck with us online as much as they are... Because that order is the furthest thing from correct possible, ESPECIALLY if you believe as fervently as you do that Russia handed Trump the election.
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  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    No, you don't. Mortar and artillery grenades can be used to distribute chemical weapons, and have been used to do so for over a hundred years.
    In fact, as has already been linked, one of the two chemical attacks in syria that the UN has determined a perpetrator for was by ISIL using artillery (the other, of course, being carried out by assad, 369 days ago).
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  16. #136
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Your video makes me think of another video



    I know the American empire gets your dick hard, Skroe, but from my point of view, and many on my political spectrum, all you are doing is war mongering.
    I'm deeply sorry you were born into fabulously wealthy late 20th century/early 21st century American superpowerdom and not agrarian 1821 post-colonial America that could barely pay the bills and was subject to predation from European Empires along it's borders.

    We all can't choose the country we were born into.

    But in any event, it's not me you have to worry about. It's the mustached maniac who is National Security Adviser starting tomorrow.

    And for the record, and you can go look at my post history pal, all the way back to 2013. I said the US should absolutely do jack shit in Syria. That is until, Assad crossed our red line that Obama foolishly drew, and put American credibility to the test. I, who have spent a life time reading history and foreign policy, have come to understand the importance, from a historical perspective, of this "credibility" that some people fraudulently believe isn't a thing. And Obama blew his moment, and demolished his, and American credibility. We're still recovering from it.

    You know what's painfully ironic? I'm actually for a restrained foreign policy. I'm part of the talk softly and carry a big stick school. The US should worry about high-level, fate of the international community stuff... and not be crusading around the world in cultures we scarcely understand or hunting for dragons to slay.

    But you know what the difference is between me and others? I actually mean what I say in that regard. The prohibition of the use of chemical weapons is one of those high-level, fate of the international community things. Defending the rules based international order is our national bread and butter. Having a big stick means wielding it when justified. In this case, it is perfectly justified.

    If you call this war mongering - where there is no time you'd ever use military action because you define American interests so laughably and implausibly narrowly, then maybe this restraint I impose on myself is for nothing. Maybe I should, as a counter to your extremism, adopt the extremist position you ascribe to me.

    You know why I don't? Because I have principles. That's the key difference between me and the moral harlots who have thrown in with Trump and the stick-their-head-in-the-sand liberals who never got over Vietnam and don't care to defend the international community they spent generations building.

    The US is being tested by this affront to human decency Assad and Russia have perpetrated. It is well within our rights and our responsibility as the upholder of the international order to respond with overwhelming force.

    Don't like that?

    Too fucken bad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    That order being "correct" is probably why China and Russia are able to fuck with us online as much as they are... Because that order is the furthest thing from correct possible, ESPECIALLY if you believe as fervently as you do that Russia handed Trump the election.
    Okay you're going to have to explain how being the newly promoted primary targets of our defense aparatus somehow "make them able to fuck with us". Because I legitimately have no clue how that makes any bit of sense.

    I'll explain what I mean. It means concrete stuff. It means turning light infantry / counter insurgency brigades back into Heavy Armored brigades with tanks. It means buying new artillery that our ranges Russia and not buying anti-terrorism weaponry. It means bombers, warships and cruise missiles, not light attack aircraft and cheap, non-stealthy drones.

    It means training troops in how to dismantle a Russian tank column, not how to go door to door and fight ISIS.

    ISIS is over. Terrorism as a primary threat to the US is over. And Americans obsessed with them need to get with the times. You are entitled to your position but budgetarily... from a policy perspective, you're not getting what you want.

    Oh and the policy was written by the National Security Council Staff and the Pentagon. McMaster and Mattis were the joint authors. John Bolton loved it. Trump, because he is a do-nothing, had no hand in it. Friendly reminder the US defense establishment is fervently anti-Russian. They don't want to talk about ISIS anymore. They want to talk about stealth bombers and heavy armor brigades. And rightly so. Because the world has changed and ISIS is over.
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  17. #137
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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I really hope when the likes of you and your kind look at the face of the gassed children are somehow satisfied with yourselves. who were only gassed because the US didn't do what is necessary in 2013, and then in 2017, while you obsessed with ISIS. Your ongoing moral harlotry in the face of this unspeakable evil.... why? To pursue a vanquished enemy? To secure a domestic political agenda? I hope it is worth it. The muslim rapist army you're worried about is yesterday's news. Today, it's all about state-level warfare.
    Yeah no, you don't get to moralise and throw that in peoples face. The US isn't responsible for gassing children, regardless of what they did or didn't do.

    Both sides in this war are unspeakably evil, and amongst the carnage there is a lot of misdirection and lies. Trump should wait for more evidence before making a decision. It would surprise no one if it turns out ISIL gassed the civilians to try and fool the US into doing exactly what you want them to do, bomb Syrian forces.

  19. #139
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Arthur Dayne View Post
    The above video is brought to you by....



    your friendly internet British Nutcase with a Webcam.


    You Russian apologists are getting worse and worse at this.
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  20. #140
    Deleted
    Skroe, you can't confront anything he said, and why should you? Aren't you the one who keeps saying the US is wasting money in the middle east n should focus on China? You don't seem to know what you want? One day you want intervention and the next nope.

    Oh btw, reported, you replied faster than the run time of the video.

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