Minor changes/tweaks?

[tikcol]

It doesn't matter how minor the change is. You can't easily draw the line like that because different individuals find different things minor.

I for instance believe that a minor non-profound change would be the inclusion of LFR. Should they do it? Absolutely.

But if they introduce LFR what's stopping them from starting to tinker with the game? Nothing.

[Hottage]

Unacceptable changes:
- In-game quality of life updates.
- Class rebalance.
- Boss or event mechanic changes or tuning, dynamic respawns, etc.

These are the sort of changes which might be acceptable:
- Fixes to game breaking bugs which were bannable to exploit even in 2005 (such as wall walking in BGs or map editing).
- Features to make customer support less of a burden (like the item restore website and the loot trading window).
- Social / infrastructure updates (such as Battle.net integration and it's patching, 2FA, friends lists, etc.)
- Completely, 100% optional, graphical updates (not the hack job they have now).

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't matter how minor the change is. You can't easily draw the line like that because different individuals find different things minor.

I for instance believe that a minor non-profound change would be the inclusion of LFR. Should they do it? Absolutely.

But if they introduce LFR what's stopping them from starting to tinker with the game? Nothing.

Except that LFR is absolutely not a minor non-profound change at all, as it would drastically alter the gear progression system.

Having LFR would change the gear system (per new level 60 at 1.12) from:
1. Farm dungeons until almost full blue gear + possibly some BoE/crafted epics.
2. Start Zul'Gurub for epic items.
3. Farm/craft fire resistance gear.
4. Farm Molten Core, Zul'Gurub until at least 50% geared.
5. Start Onyxia.
6. Farm Blackwing Lair, Onyxia, Ahn-Qiraj 20, MC and ZG until you're at least 50% BWL geared and have no more pre-raid items and to keep getting legendaries for tanks/melee DPS.
7. Farm/craft nature resistance gear.
8. Farm Ahn-Qiraj 40 / AQ20, BWL (for Elementium Ore/T2), ZG (for offset pieces), MC (for legendaries) until basically best in slot for AQ40.
9. Farm/craft shadow/frost resistance gear.
10. Start progressing in Naxx 40 (while still doing, at a minimum, AQ40, AQ20, MC, Onyixa and BWL).

With LFR (in the current format):
1. Farm dungeons until you have the minimum item level for Naxx 40 LFR.
2. Bumble though a bunch of Naxx 40 LFRs until you are vaguely OK geared.
3. Start joining PUGs for MC/Onyxia/BWL normal [as there will be a huge pool of overgeared LFR players] for sets/legendaries.
4. Farm nature/shadow/frost resistance gear.
4. Move on to over gearing AQ40 / progression in Naxx40.

LFR would literally destroy the progression system that is one of the biggest things people crave from classic.

[Spyro-]

All those little things will be there in Classic, because they are implementing it from a modern client (and server), not from the old client/server. Don't expect a 1:1 copy of Vanilla because is not gonna be that.

[Dergiab]

Minor beatings of a dead horse?

[klaps_05]

I know all the purists are going to screech "SLIPPERY SLOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" like they usually do, but what if:

-Sparkles added to herb nodes so that you can actually fuckin' see them. Seriously, so many herbs in vanilla just blend in with the ground, and even playing at 1440p, I frequently find myself zooming my camera way in and panning it around to find the herb. Putting them on quest items too would be nice, as there are plenty of quests that have tiny clickable objects, or stuff like the SM Library book where it doesn't stand out against all the other books near it.

-Allow us to see buff timers on allies and debuff timers on enemies. Debuff timers are already implemented through addons, but it's not precise, just the addon guessing based on when you cast the spell. There's also no way to see buff timers on allies. Would be very helpful with rebuffing to be able to see exactly how much time is left on an ally's buff, or if a HoT is about to run out.

-Ability to replace bags with larger bags without emptying out the bag first. As it is right now, you have to completely clear out a bag before replacing it with a different bag; they fixed it in later expacs so you don't have to empty the bag, so I'm assuming it was just a technical limitation for vanilla, not an intended feature. Minor thing, but would like to see it fixed.

Just smaller things like that, which don't directly affect gameplay. No class changes, no "flying mounts and LFR", none of that garbage, just minor fixes and improvements. I figure that by talking about individual changes and discussing those specific things, the amount of "MUH SLIPPERY SLOPE!" crying will hopefully be reduced.

Why should a profession that took X effort back then took less effort now?
Why should you be able to see buff timers if you couldnt see them by default then?
The way bags worked back then should be the way bags work in the revision.

These things are small, but they do affect gameplay - especially the herb gathering one and buff timers.

[glowpipe]

you guys wanted this broken pos. So you gonna get this broken pos. No changes.

[bloodstripes]

SNIP
LFR would literally destroy the progression system that is one of the biggest things people crave from classic.

Well said. +1

[Low Hanging Fruit]

No changes. Part of classics charm will be it's not a game that plays itself.

[Bristae]

ahhh Love the rose colored glasses... I've tried to play private vanilla servers and stop pretty fast. I have lots of fond memories of vanilla and raiding, but.... they should just be memories.

[Swalload]

People really need to let go of this wild and crazy idea that vanilla is perfect and has no issues or flaws whatsoever.

Hi, I'm one of the purist. Most of us don't claim that vanilla was perfect, not at all, we are well aware that it was mostly shit technically speaking. We want to see vanilla as close to what it was so people who live in a bubble of nostalgia and constantly complain about the current state of retail yet have not tried vanilla on private server really get a taste of that crap and its million flaws. These people need to seriously shut the fuck up lol. They need to go exactly like this:
1. "ah nice finally I'll be able to play vanilla again"
2. Logs on and goes to character creation
3. omg everything is ugly as shit, whatever
3. start questing: oh yeah I need to read now [followed by] wtf this is stupid boring and tedious
4. "where is this goddamn mob? the quest says he should be there"
5. after 20 minutes of running around the mob finally spawn "omg he really spawns there and it really took all this time for this jerk to respawn????????"
6. next quest is to gather 10 herbs: "wtf where are the herbs the quest says they should be around here"
7. he notices a lot of people running around the area, they are looting the qust herbs in his face and he can't get them
8. "okay I'll just stay here I know there should be one respawning here"
9. five minutes later it finally respawns, he gets his first herb out of 10.
10. after 3 hours he's nowhere near lvl 10, all the quests were boring, he fell asleep 4 times while waiting for respawns, the amount of fun is in the negative.
11. he quits before lvl 10 like over 90% of the people trying vanilla on private servers.
12. the end

The more hardcore fans won't do that, they are waiting for it and they want it for real and they didn't play on private servers either because they are loyal little dogs. But the clowns in trade crying about how "it was so much better back in the days" are gonna eat a pile of shit they are not ready for and it's gonna be awesome.

[parcus]

With LFR (in the current format):
1. Farm dungeons until you have the minimum item level for Naxx 40 LFR.
2. Bumble though a bunch of Naxx 40 LFRs until you are vaguely OK geared.
3. Start joining PUGs for MC/Onyxia/BWL normal [as there will be a huge pool of overgeared LFR players] for sets/legendaries.
4. Farm nature/shadow/frost resistance gear.
5. Move on to over gearing AQ40 / progression in Naxx40.

LFR would literally destroy the progression system that is one of the biggest things people crave from classic.

Let me fix that for you:

1. Farm dungeons until you have the minimum item level for MC 40 LFR.
2. Bumble through a bunch of MC 40 LFRs until you are vaguely OK geared.
3. Bumble through a bunch of BWL/Ony/AQ 40 LFRs until you are vaguely OK geared.
4. Bumble through Naxx 40 once.
5. Quit, you've seen and done everything.

[Donald Hellscream]

Minor tweaks and changes wouldn't ruin the game, however they likely wouldn't happen either because the purists as you say likes to caw up a storm about that so called slippery slope they are so dead set on being a thing.

Basically if they were to be believed any change would eventually lead to the inclusion of LFR on the classic servers.

I once proposed making the updated a character models a optional toogle on ( as opposed to the current incarnation of WoW where the old model are the toogle on ) and somehow through some super human feats of mental gymnastics that also would lead to LFR being added if they were to believed.

[Shockzalot]

I know all the purists are going to screech "SLIPPERY SLOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" like they usually do, but what if:

-Sparkles added to herb nodes so that you can actually fuckin' see them. Seriously, so many herbs in vanilla just blend in with the ground, and even playing at 1440p, I frequently find myself zooming my camera way in and panning it around to find the herb. Putting them on quest items too would be nice, as there are plenty of quests that have tiny clickable objects, or stuff like the SM Library book where it doesn't stand out against all the other books near it.

-Allow us to see buff timers on allies and debuff timers on enemies. Debuff timers are already implemented through addons, but it's not precise, just the addon guessing based on when you cast the spell. There's also no way to see buff timers on allies. Would be very helpful with rebuffing to be able to see exactly how much time is left on an ally's buff, or if a HoT is about to run out.

-Ability to replace bags with larger bags without emptying out the bag first. As it is right now, you have to completely clear out a bag before replacing it with a different bag; they fixed it in later expacs so you don't have to empty the bag, so I'm assuming it was just a technical limitation for vanilla, not an intended feature. Minor thing, but would like to see it fixed.

Just smaller things like that, which don't directly affect gameplay. No class changes, no "flying mounts and LFR", none of that garbage, just minor fixes and improvements. I figure that by talking about individual changes and discussing those specific things, the amount of "MUH SLIPPERY SLOPE!" crying will hopefully be reduced.

Some herbs are nearly impossible to see and you're right a few sparkles wouldn't hurt anything. Mountain silversage is one of the absolute worst and at times sungrass can be difficult to detect as well if it's in the midst of foliage on the ground.

[Jeppasa]

There will be QoL changes no matter what with tons of new addons

[Alkizon]

- Completely, 100% optional, graphical updates (not the hack job they have now).

making the updated a character models a optional toogle on

Graphics yes, settings are reasonable (but they were in vanila, so no problems), but models isn't graphic settings, it's element of customization, element of gameplay, element of classic experience (RP) (one way MMORPG-world view). So - no toggles for models: either they put it thru element of customization (part of gameplay can only be controlled by in-game rules and mechanisms, and not by external client settings) or don't introduce this muck at all.

I stopped my subscription because of toggle and new models, I was told "If you want old models go play classic", and what now? No way, no any *** toggle - only fixed choice that shows the same way for all players of MMORPG-world, only like this. It's part of rules, it's part of experience.

If the only possible option for you to play game is by seeing exclusively new terrible bulged over-cartoony art - you already have BfA, play it and let me play stuff I lost.

Big difference between what I suggested (a binary toggle with no influence) and what we got (a dumpster fire with classic models wrapped onto the new animation rigs).

Toggle is toggle (was bad and unfair in WoD, stopped working in Legion - never supposed to be in game) and customization is customization (choice how your character will be displayed in the game for everyone), there're no different meanings, it's not supposed to be here (it's against the rules of MMORPG). And even if you meant rework - they didn't hire designers to classic team, and those who working there now... I won't ever trust anything to them again, they are mediocre. I see what they adding to the game now, the style doesn't change back, they have spat on tradition already long time ago.

I can forgive them changes in surrounding fauna in some way, because old models are still outside and they can be found - they are fixed/constant in their displaing, but neither old character models nor their adequate replacement exists in the game (there is only toggle as a signature under fact, that "we f* up the idea, but we don't care"). Pity, but it's true.

[Hottage]

Graphics yes, settings are reasonable (but they were in vanila, so no problems), but models isn't graphic settings, it's element of customization, element of gameplay, element of classic experience (RP) (one way MMORPG-world view). So - no toggles for models: either they put it thru element of customization (part of gameplay can only be controlled by in-game rules and mechanisms, and not by external client settings) or don't introduce this muck at all.

I stopped my subscription because of toggle and new models, I was told "If you want old models go play classic", and what now? No way, no any *** toggle - only fixed choice that shows the same way for all players of MMORPG-world, only like this. It's part of rules, it's part of experience.

If the only possible option for you to play game is only by seeing exclusively new terrible bulged over-cartoony art - you already have BfA, play it and let me play stuff I lost.

Big difference between what I suggested (a binary toggle with no influence) and what we got (a dumpster fire with classic models wrapped onto the new animation rigs).

[Sastank]

A lot of QoL improvements were made years later so it'd tarnish the good ol' grindy/tedious feel of real Vanilla. You asked for it, deal with it :^)

[Deleted]

The only real change I'd be interested in is lowering the duration of world buffs such as the Ony one or the ones from DMN tribute runs. I feel it makes some encounters too easy while at the same time adding in the whole issue of having to get the buffs before reach raid, often taking on an extra hour to the run. You can skip them of course but you'll get smoked on the dps meters by those that put in the time and effort. The buffs are simply too strong for how easy they are to set up.

this is far from the truth, with any dedicated guild you can take all the buffs in about 15-20mins AND be inside the raid when clock hits 19:00, and the buffs make that 2hour mc to 1hour or less mc, which is a gain, speaking from experience world buffs is ok cus they are activated a few months after the last boss of the raid is killed so guilds that had some problems can raid mc and some bwl and not be super good to get some gear and improve to have a shot at other raids after the top guilds have been farming thouse raids for months, see it as a slight catchup mechanic.

also speedruns is a thing for the geared so they will have plenty to do when they have been farming older raids for a really long time not to mention legendary drops in thouse older raids still matter into naxx

- - - Updated - - -

A lot of QoL improvements were made years later so it'd tarnish the good ol' grindy/tedious feel of real Vanilla. You asked for it, deal with it :^)

for you its tedious, for me its fun and/or satisfying, comming home from a long day of work and then sit down and grind some mobs is relaxing to some, different for different people

[Deleted]

Oh, daily dose of "please make qol changes thread", no ty.
Ever heard of addons ? Yeah those things that can use timers on debuffs and all that, use those.
Don't own eyes to see herbs ? Well i guess there is no way to make this game for blind people.

[SpellCleave]

ahhh Love the rose colored glasses... I've tried to play private vanilla servers and stop pretty fast. I have lots of fond memories of vanilla and raiding, but.... they should just be memories.

That's understandable for some and great to hear your opinion on it. But the decision HAS been made and Classic is coming. This thread was for discussing minor tweaks/changes. Which I'm mostly against.

Thanks for stopping by though!