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  1. #1
    Pit Lord Nutri's Avatar
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    What differentiates the 'allied race' from a 'new race' - post bfa

    So with Allied Races being the new thing to come in BfA and probably beyond, what does this mean for the 'new race' (like we had with goblins, worgen, panda's) that was previously a shipping product of new expansions?

    With the fact Allied Races start off at level 20 after unlocking them and more allied races added to the game partly into the expansion, will the 'new race' as we knew it be a thing of the past?

  2. #2
    There was a thread here a couple days ago that summed up the issue well.

    Basically the allied races are reskins, it sounds harsh, but that's the reality of it. They use models from other, already included races, which have different visuals. So allied races will be stuff like rainbow orcs, orange elves, underbelly elves, flying elves etc. New races will be 'really' new. At least this is what we can assume based on how the system is CURRENTLY set up (just in case someone jumps at me saying that it can be changed later - yes, but for now that's what it is).

    There seems to be a major misunderstanding in the community right now as to what allied races are. This is further fueled by various personas like youtubers, whose job is to speculate about the game, so it's not really their fault. Vulpera, Naga, Fish people from Pandaria, etc. CURRENTLY are not allied race material. They are possibly new race material.

  3. #3
    Effort. That's the difference. Effort.

    New races means new lore, new model work, new animations, new starting zones, all that.

    Allied races are... well, more or less none of that. Maybe a very slight amount of changes to the model or skeleton, but that's it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    Basically the allied races are reskins, it sounds harsh, but that's the reality of it. They use models from other, already included races, which have different visuals. So allied races will be stuff like rainbow orcs, orange elves, underbelly elves, flying elves etc. New races will be 'really' new. At least this is what we can assume based on how the system is CURRENTLY set up (just in case someone jumps at me saying that it can be changed later - yes, but for now that's what it is).
    That explanation doesn't really fit even today any more. Many of the Allied Races we have today or know that are coming use unique models already, not just different skin colors or tattoos. Like Kul Tirans, Zandalari or even Nightborne. They do share animations in many cases though with existing races, but so do Vulpera, which you put into a different list entirely.

    IMHO the biggest difference is their established role in Lore. Introducing an entire new race right now that fully joins the Alliance or the Horde just outright would require quite some bending of established Lore. On the other hand, finding a small race or sub-race of people and convincing them to join us through a story we play opens up much more flexible lore avenues to add all sorts of options, sometimes actual new races, sometimes just variants on existing races that split off from the main race a long time ago (distant cousins, if you will).

    Within the Lore of Warcraft, I don't currently see them adding any new "actual races" anymore, but just expand the Allied Races system.
    Last edited by Nevcairiel; 2018-04-11 at 10:31 AM.

  5. #5
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    Like Azerate said, Allied races consist of re-skins. I disagree about the extent, though. Vulpera have their cute wake up animation and a tail, but from the looks of it they otherwise make use of the goblin-skeleton. Jinuy as they are use the night elf skeleton. So these could technically be Allied races same as Nightborne and Zandalari. What blurs the line further are Tirasians. Their model appears to be a completely new one, so you'd think they were a new race under the assumed ruleset. But they're still literally ordinary Alliance-affiliated humans, not werewolves or undead, so it would feel cheap to call them a new race. If they were half-vrukyl or something it would be fine, but since they are just a different body type it makes more sense to slot them as Allied race. Point still stands that what makes an Allied race varies a lot.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  6. #6
    Asides from allied races being re-skins of current ones, they are also an exclusive feature for Battle for Azeroth while acctual new races are not tied to 1 expansion

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Not needing a quest to unlock, starting zones and starting at level 1

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    There was a thread here a couple days ago that summed up the issue well.

    Basically the allied races are reskins, it sounds harsh, but that's the reality of it. They use models from other, already included races, which have different visuals. So allied races will be stuff like rainbow orcs, orange elves, underbelly elves, flying elves etc. New races will be 'really' new. At least this is what we can assume based on how the system is CURRENTLY set up (just in case someone jumps at me saying that it can be changed later - yes, but for now that's what it is).

    There seems to be a major misunderstanding in the community right now as to what allied races are. This is further fueled by various personas like youtubers, whose job is to speculate about the game, so it's not really their fault. Vulpera, Naga, Fish people from Pandaria, etc. CURRENTLY are not allied race material. They are possibly new race material.
    Yet Zandlari and Kill Tirans have far more unique skeletons. Vulpera use goblin skeletons and Jinyu use night elf, how are they not allied race materials....

  8. #8
    The tradicional way to add races ended before BfA.

    Now they will just create allied races. They are the new wow model of giving new playable races (aka new skins) to players.

    New players to the game have already to many options to start with. Allied Races are a new game flavor for the veterans.

  9. #9
    kul tiran has brand new model

    basically i think we will only be getting allied races from here on simply because otherwise people would complain and it makes sense to use the system that helps flush out the race with a quest line instead of an intro zone that you will outlevel

    and jin yu are coming as are hozen

  10. #10
    Allied races take far less effort. With new races they make at least 2 whole new zones with its own art (Eversong/Ghostlands, Azuremyst/Bloodmyst Isle, Kezan/Lost Isles, I guess Gilneas and The Wandering Isle are an exception). Their models are brand new with an unique skeleton, much more effort put into their story and how they fit in their faction. Allied races are the exact opposite where they use an already existing model with some new customisable features, their capital and/or zone were used in an expansion which is now stuck in the past, the lore and their reasons to join the Alliance/Horde are generally very shitty.

    Basically they make more ''new'' races at a much faster pace while sacrificing a lot that made new playable races so great. A quantity over quality thing.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    The tradicional way to add races ended before BfA.

    Now they will just create allied races. They are the new wow model of giving new playable races (aka new skins) to players.

    New players to the game have already to many options to start with. Allied Races are a new game flavor for the veterans.
    But Allied Races are a feature for the expansion Battle for Azeroth, i dont think they will continue this route after it

  12. #12
    Starting zones!

    Blizz now never will need to create a starting zone for any race!

    All they need to do is make a few crumb quests and Boom level 20 allied race

    Its lazy and brilliant at the same time!

  13. #13

  14. #14
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    I think the "Allied Race" system will prove to be the new game system by which new races are going to be introduced going forward. Before now, the inclusion of new races was kind of mounted onto a new expansion - e.g. "here's a bunch of new quests, zones, items, and levels - and by the way you can make X race now" was how new player races were handled. The Allied Race system allows this to be decoupled, and seems to be a bit more organic in terms of the story. So now you can encounter a given race as a more or less neutral party, gain their trust via reputation, and then a series of quests and/or scenarios unlocks and allows you to make new characters of that new race for a given faction instead of having it all front-loaded and explained away with intro quests or new leveling zones.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfezen View Post
    But Allied Races are a feature for the expansion Battle for Azeroth, i dont think they will continue this route after it
    For me it is this:
    But Allied Races are a feature that started in the expansion Battle for Azeroth.

    Why wouldn't they continue with this route on the next expansions?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I think the "Allied Race" system will prove to be the new game system by which new races are going to be introduced going forward. Before now, the inclusion of new races was kind of mounted onto a new expansion - e.g. "here's a bunch of new quests, zones, items, and levels - and by the way you can make X race now" was how new player races were handled. The Allied Race system allows this to be decoupled, and seems to be a bit more organic in terms of the story. So now you can encounter a given race as a more or less neutral party, gain their trust via reputation, and then a series of quests and/or scenarios unlocks and allows you to make new characters of that new race for a given faction instead of having it all front-loaded and explained away with intro quests or new leveling zones.
    And also this ^^

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xhohosyu View Post
    Starting zones!

    Blizz now never will need to create a starting zone for any race!

    All they need to do is make a few crumb quests and Boom level 20 allied race

    Its lazy and brilliant at the same time!
    Lol... and of course this as well!

    No need for a starting zone, and you need to play many hours ingame to get access to each race

    Win / Win for blizzard!

  16. #16
    I really like allied races because you can get so much customization out of them, and tie it all to a storyline. Very cool setup imho.

    I would still like to see new races in the future though. My hope is that allied races will happen every expansion, and complete new races will still happen occasionally.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    I understand why Blizzard chose to name them "allied races" instead of "subraces" as this would allow them in the future to maybe unlock races that aren't necessarily a deviation of an already playable race, but might just use already existing rigs and/or animations, however, from what I have seen, this has created higher expectations for some people. Do not get me wrong, what we got thus far seems rushed in some areas: the nightborne's eyes, the void elves' "void hair", Telogrus and its AU Throne of Kil'Jaeden rocks, the lack of some more skin tones and others, but all of the allied races they have been announced thus far, minus maybe the kul'tirans, are subraces through and through. Over the years, when people have asked for subraces they didn't seem to want radically different models, animations or rigs, just already playable races with some changes, so it comes to me as strange when people were expecting way more out of these allied races. They are subraces, they are supposed so use a lot of assets from the baseline race.

    I was always thinking that just giving the already existing races acces to subrace customization would be weird from a story perspective(with maybe the exception of mag'har orcs, if they were to be the Outland ones) and the system we got is, in my oppinion, mostly a good solution to that. Also the nightborne and the velfs don't have any base-race in their respective factions(the high elves don't count, as they aren't playable, that is another discussion). That being said it still doesn't make sense for a any of the 4 ARs we got thus far to quest in any of the pre BfA zones so what do I know.

    Now I have to mention that I wouldn't want every new race from now on to be available trough this system, I think it should be restricted to subraces and maybe races that wouldn't appear or be relevant in further expansions, such as the vulpera, sethrak and whatever BfA races people want and might get unlocked. I would like in the future to see starting zones for new non-subraces with unique skeletons, animations and skins and I hope Blizzard does not use the AR system as an excuse or a replacement for this.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    There was a thread here a couple days ago that summed up the issue well.

    Basically the allied races are reskins, it sounds harsh, but that's the reality of it. They use models from other, already included races, which have different visuals. So allied races will be stuff like rainbow orcs, orange elves, underbelly elves, flying elves etc. New races will be 'really' new. At least this is what we can assume based on how the system is CURRENTLY set up (just in case someone jumps at me saying that it can be changed later - yes, but for now that's what it is).

    There seems to be a major misunderstanding in the community right now as to what allied races are. This is further fueled by various personas like youtubers, whose job is to speculate about the game, so it's not really their fault. Vulpera, Naga, Fish people from Pandaria, etc. CURRENTLY are not allied race material. They are possibly new race material.
    Who are zandalari trolls reskins of? Or KT humans?

  19. #19
    How many animations, skeletons and designs they can reuse.

  20. #20
    Banned MechaCThun's Avatar
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    The only 2 reasons that matter to this endless argument: lore reasons and game play reasons.

    Lore reason: Allied races are separate groups of races in the world that are not already aligned with the Alliance or the Horde. Simply look at what races are apart of the factions, and look at any other independent group in the world of these exact races. Of course that won't stop Blizzard from creating brand new ones (void elves) or ones that have been retconned to have already been exisiting, and we are just now running into them (nightborne in Legion, blood trolls in BfA for example). Clearly the case of nightborne and void elves is unique, which leaves open the possibility of faction changing for these races. Night elves evolved into nightborne, but nightborne ended up choosing the Horde. Blood elves became void elves, but void elves ended up joining the Alliance.

    Game play reason: Blizzard is able to use less resources and take less time designing and implementing new allied races by taking existing model skeletons of the races in-game, re-skin them with new customized features and make them playable. Most notable example I can think of is the nightborne model using the night elf skeleton.

    Allied races are, from a design point of view, alternate versions of the main races, akin to the long proposed fan concept of "sub-races". They use the skeleton of an existing race, but altered and with a different model. They also have their own racial abilities. Allied races get a full character kit: their own emotes, their own flirts, funnies, exertions, and so on.
    Source for above quote

    People will argue that "well Blizzard could easily make any race an allied race" but until they actually do that, that argument is moot. These also happen to be the people who are advocating vulpera being an allied race...

    ...which most likely will happen given information we have into the development going into vulpera. But until then, races that are not already represented within the Alliance or Horde should not and probably will not become allied races.

    EDIT: Oh wow, I completely missed the "post bfa" part in thread's title. Uh, well, personally I think Blizzard should implemented brand new playable races eventually (ogres, ethereal) and still do allied races.
    Last edited by MechaCThun; 2018-04-11 at 05:24 PM.

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