BFA executes as talents: bad move

[styil]

I feel like Blizzard is once again repeating the mistake that they allegedly just learned from.

Blizzard decoupled AoE vs single target talent rows because there wasn't really a choice. For AoE fights, pick AoE talent. For single target fights, pick single target.

It's going to be the same thing with execute vs non-execute talents. For encounters where the last phase is the hardest, pick the execute talent. For all other encounters, pick the highest performing talent.

So I'm a little puzzled at the design direction Blizzard has chosen here. These execute talents should either be baseline or simply removed. Otherwise we'll be back here in the 9.0 Alpha saying how putting executes in talent rows was a bad decision.

[Deleted]

Tbh, there was a choice if you were changing talents per fight. The new system where all talents do the same slightly differently is the one where there is no choice. You pick one and theres no reason to ever change cause it's the right solution for every fight.

So, you tell me that their design is very logical. Truth is, they change things for the sake of changing.

[epec]

Everything about BFA's class design seems terrible and all the feedback has been negative so far, but it doesn't seem to matter. They don't seem to care and it will probably show post-release. I just wish I could cancel my preorder and wait it out for the next expansion when they "suddenly learn from their mistakes" and decide to go back on these horrible design choices. Oh well.

[Siglius]

Executes such a SW are talents so the class doesn't have to be balanced around them. For a shadow priest it means that since you dont have a strong execute baseline you can actually do respecable damage outside of the execute window, but when you do need the execute, it is available.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Any examples?

[Steampunkette]

This issue will come up no matter WHAT the talent row has to offer.

"Oh this particular talent is most useful in -this- kind of fight, so everyone will have to swap during fights with this kind of mechanic" Fight with no burst phase? It's the Sustained talent versus the Burst talent. Got a burst phase? You HAVE TO SWAP to the Burst talent. Oh, this phase has a harder first section? Gotta grab that Alpha Strike talent to increase your initial burst! Heavy movement fight? Well you HAVE to swap your utility row talent over to the movement increase rather than the defense/self-healing increase.

Unless the devs create 1 talent per row and cut the rest, forcing you into that single choice, it will be better to swap in certain situations. Not REQUIRED. But certainly closer to OPTIMAL.

And threads like this will continue to exist.

[huth]

SW

I really want that spell now. Right next to Power Word

[shaunika123]

you do realize if all 3 talents do the same thing then you also dont have a choice right? in fact you have less of a choice.

blizzard's entire logic about this is just wrong.

[Magnagarde]

Should just remove talents all together and make everyone have the same abilities by default no matter what. The difference talents bring should be dissolved among the various specs(ie you want to go ST, you spec into MM; you want to go AoE, you spec into survival) where that is possible. If it's a class with the possibility to handle multiple roles at once, then you get one build per spec and that is it.

All this talk about different talents within a row giving you a choice is boggus. In the end everyone ends up using the same talents for the same fights(goes for all those who have even a fraction of habbit of trying to look up what is best for their class, if they sim even in the slightest and if they are raiding). All those who don't bother with performing well shouldn't even be bothered by talent choice and already have two, three or four specs to chose from when playing their class.

[bigamie]

I really want that spell now. Right next to Power Word

It‘s actually Shadow Word:P not a Power Word.

[Jonsse]

Well they haven't really changed the talents at all. They've just changed their desired for what they want the talents to be. In legion the goal was for the talents to be more static and then increase the versatility through legendaries, but legendaries turned out to be quite a hassle instead.

Now legendaries are gone, so there needs to be a layer of customization, but they still don't want players to switch talents for trash mobs. Just make the talents cost 5000 gold to redo, and you can only change them at the class trainer and be done with this bullshit. You can't have a system that was originally designed to be very modular and then put restrictions on it because you don't like how modular it is.

[Khrux]

It's an improvement from legion, you can't argue with that. Seriously just quit the game if all you want to do is think up new ways to be negative about everything.

We had no choice in some tiers because of binary decisions like ST vs AoE. In Bfa you'll choose between 3 different ways of doing the same thing at a basic level, that's more choice.

Stop bitching.

[bmjclark]

There's never going to be any real choices in talents. Ever. There's a right choice and a wrong choice for every situation. That's how it's always been.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I think you can usually live with a talent if it does not perform 100% optimally. It's a different thing if the talent in question does contribute nothing to the fight at all. The AoE/ST choice wasn't one at all, because in fights where you'd go for either one the other because just useless most of the time, especially in case of the AoE one since every AoE fight usually also has a ST component. Having different types of playstyles might not be optimally for the individual encounter, but usually these choices also come with different gear weightings, so that most can't make the most use out of them by changing it on the fly anyway.

In general I rarely change specs during an encounter, one of the few exceptions being mythic Eonar, since our group is currently extremely light on AoE DPS and that fight is 95% trash nuking.

[Nevcairiel]

They can try to make choices as balanced as they can, at the end of the day one choice will always be better for any given situation, and the styil's of this world will always come and complain how mandatory it is, even if the difference is extremely marginal.

[Sencha]

Yes this talent system is beyond retarded. Having to switch talents before every boss is annoying.

[Gaidax]

It's an improvement from legion, you can't argue with that. Seriously just quit the game if all you want to do is think up new ways to be negative about everything.

We had no choice in some tiers because of binary decisions like ST vs AoE. In Bfa you'll choose between 3 different ways of doing the same thing at a basic level, that's more choice.

Stop bitching.

Word.

I won’t be talking in absolutes and hyperbole like some people here, but I’d say this one thing I see in talent trees in BfA where they finally came back to their senses and stopped pitting AoE talents vs ST ones same row is a frikkin’ big step in right direction.

There are other issues sure, but I certainly don’t want to see bullshit like ST DPS cooldown on the same row as AoE only talent like Destro had in Legion and thankfully that one is fixed in BfA.

[Sesshomaru]

It‘s actually Shadow Word:P not a Power Word.

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[Nefarious Tea]

I feel like Blizzard is once again repeating the mistake that they allegedly just learned from.

Blizzard decoupled AoE vs single target talent rows because there wasn't really a choice. For AoE fights, pick AoE talent. For single target fights, pick single target.

It's going to be the same thing with execute vs non-execute talents. For encounters where the last phase is the hardest, pick the execute talent. For all other encounters, pick the highest performing talent.

So I'm a little puzzled at the design direction Blizzard has chosen here. These execute talents should either be baseline or simply removed. Otherwise we'll be back here in the 9.0 Alpha saying how putting executes in talent rows was a bad decision.

Except the execute talent is almost always going to be the optimal choice because they're overpowered (because they can only be used in a small portion of the fight).

[DrMcNinja]

Except the execute talent is almost always going to be the optimal choice because they're overpowered (because they can only be used in a small portion of the fight).

Not in the case of Hammer of Wrath. It does fuck all damage, lower than the vast majority of main rotational abilities. And while it can be used during Wings, where would you even press it? We've got so many generators now, some which do more damage or have additional effects, so it would need to be a nuke in order to be somewhat relevant.

Our top option in that row is also far more consistent over an entire fight.