Warfronts truly have potential to be the next big thing

[-aiko-]

Alright, so I just finished my second Warfront. It was laggy, it was buggy, but it also managed to be ridiculously fun. TLDR at the bottom!

The lag was real, it was persistent, and it made actually playing my class a nightmare. But I got to experience everything else that makes up a Warfront and it's just great. Our group was vocal (though I didn't join voice chat) and communicated well the whole time. In fact, I suspect I was playing with a GM/dev as one player was just a little too knowledgeable about what to do and we actually won - in the end.

We started the Warfront by taking Drywhisker Mine (by clearing it of kobolds and a kobold boss), allowing us to gather iron. The Alliance responded by blindsiding us with attack forces and taking Northfold Crossing, which is essentially a small camp in front of our main center gates. This ended up being disastrous as they were able to keep constant pressure on our base, but also taught us a valuable lesson about zerging. Eventually, we managed to re-take Northfold and began our first offensive pushes into the Circle of Elements and Hatchet Ridge.

The Circle of Elements is a very Shaman-themed (duh) point where you essentially defend (or attack) a group of Shaman that are summoning a huge fire elemental. Unfortunately, the Alliance Shaman were able to summon it so to take it we had a huge mini-boss to deal with. I...can't really tell you what it did since the lag was so bad but we wiped and, since we did not properly defend Northfold, we lost it again. We did manage to take Hatchet Ridge, though, allowing us to collect wood resources.

This time, while we were applying pressure to Northfold and slowly taking it back we started upgrading buildings/troops. I don't really know how this works, since I was basically leading one of our attack forces, but with a constant stream of MOBA-like NPC units we were able to start more aggressive offensive pushing. We took the Circle of Elements and started summoning our own elemental.

With the Circle of Elements to the east, Hatchet Ridge to the west, and Northfold to the center-north occupied, we converged and attacked one of the center points of the map - High Perch. This was an epic battle with tons, and tons, and tons of NPCs that we eventually won by pure brute force. Taking it allowed us to...do...something lol. I wasn't clear on this as we immediately began another push.

Around this time our elemental was ready to go so our forces seriously packed some firepower. That's not to say the Alliance forces were weak however, and although we were without a doubt pushing forward we met with heavy resistance and there were many battles. The fucking amazing thing about this is that there was always something you could do in the background while these battles were going on. You could be like me and join/lead the attack forces, or you could gather resources, upgrade buildings and units, buy buffs for yourself and team, etc.

As we pushed we took one point, Newstead, that I believe gave us a new type of troop (winged riders, I think?) and converged on the last big Alliance defensive stronghold: Valorcall Pass. Oh lord was it a big battle. So. Many. NPCs. Once it dropped, we were able to build demolishers and could begin our assault on the Stormgarde Keep.

Unfortunately, this is where things slowed down a little and bugs started to get almost unbearable. Surrounding Stormgarde Keep were a bunch of Siege Towers (like the ones seen in the cinematic) that rained fire on us. Supposedly, our demolishers were supposed to attack these, but we didn't notice them doing anything and they continued to completely devastate us. At this point though we had so many troops storming the gates that it fell anyway, and we pushed into the keep while ignoring the towers.

There we were met with 2 huge forces. The first one we fought was led by Captain Nials. She fell pretty swiftly, upon which we were met with the massive forces of Danath Trollbane. He was a bitch to fight and was surrounded by mounted knights, who would charge, stun and straight up harass us. After he fell, the Keep was ours. For our valiant efforts, those of us that were able to loot before we were kicked from the instance were rewarded with:

Vignette Placeholder (1 copper).

Random thoughts before the tldr:
- There was good variety in the troops. "Trash" mobs mainly consisted of the 4 main roles: ranged dps, melee dps, tanks and healers. Elite NPCs were more varied and dangerous. Knights would charge stun, Commanders would deal massive damage and summon reinforcements, Siege Engines would straight fuck you up, etc. I didn't truly get to experience all the unique abilities due to server lag.

- Enemy AI seemed smart, but I don't know how much of that was due to the majority of us learning the map and the fact that our player DPS was shit because of lag. Either way, it seemed like we got flanked a lot at the worst possible times and they punished us harshly for not defending points.

- Warfronts will be a pretty big time investment. I was in for well over an hour.

- Warfronts would be amazing for PvP but I understand why this may not happen. Matches would last...a long time.

TLDR
Warfronts are fun. They are like a mixture of WoW battlegrounds, MOBAs and RTS games. The map we tested was well-designed and massive in scale. It was super laggy however, and had a lot of bugs. If polished, and when the servers can handle the load, there is a lot to love here. I am excited.

Unfortunately, despite all the positives, if Blizzard doesn't properly balance the difficulty the players themselves will kill Warfronts. If it becomes dumbed down and easy enough that groups can ignore mechanics, it will become a queue-and-zerg grind fest that nobody will actually enjoy.

[Rendark]

Just like dungeons they will become boring after the 20th time doing them.

[Pickynerd]

There is a reason why D3 is only popular during seasons, even now that isn't even a thing.

Temporary rewards, and lame RNG are not a good thing.

[Stormspellz]

Don't see warfronts to be the "next big thing", it was interesting from a nostalgia trip for me as an old rts player, but nothing more then that, and since this will be lfg'd it will remain silly easy with little more then patchwork level enemies. In short it was ashran vs bots.

[-aiko-]

Just like dungeons they will become boring after the 20th time doing them.

Considering how quickly you responded I'm not even confident that you read the TLDR...

In any case, I feel confident that you're wrong here. Warfronts are dynamic. Random dungeons are static. There is nothing dynamic to them. You go from the dungeon entrance to the end of the dungeon doing nothing but killing mobs and bosses. Mythic+ dungeons less so, but for your normal daily dungeon you zerg. You can't do that in a Warfront, as they essentially play out like a MOBA and RTS lovechild. There are things you need to do to ensure your success, such as gather and spend resources, attack and defend points, etc.

If you don't like battlegrounds, MOBAs or RTS games then yes, they could very well become a boring grind to you. If you appreciate this type of gameplay and actively engage yourself into it, instead of mindlessly attacking everything until your group wins the Warfront for you, there is serious potential here.

Alpha is alpha, I could be wrong, but how quickly you dismiss this feature says more about you than the feature itself.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't see warfronts to be the "next big thing", it was interesting from a nostalgia trip for me as an old rts player, but nothing more then that, and since this will be lfg'd it will remain silly easy with little more then patchwork level enemies. In short it was ashran vs bots.

That's a legitimate concern I have. If Blizzard makes it too accessible and easy then everything falls apart. The Warfront I did was fun because we had to collect resources, build/upgrade buildings, upgrade units, defend, etc to win. If they make it so your random group can zerg it daily for their epics then gg.

[Veldoranz]

I’ve been playing Warfronts on the alpha and my initial reaction is, unfortunately...not great. At least in my opinion, they feel like bloated garrison invasions, if not PvE battlegrounds. Now, keep in mind, they’re not “feature complete” and I also don’t have a great idea as to what’s going on. However, I don’t see this system being anything revoltionary, it reminds me of if Alterac Valley was a PvE BG, and if people had to do the quests as apposed to zerging.

I might update this post later after I have tested them more, but as of right now it’s a pretty underwhelming feature (in my opinion).

[Rendark]

Considering how quickly you responded I'm not even confident that you read the TLDR...

In any case, I feel confident that you're wrong here. Warfronts are dynamic. Random dungeons are static. There is nothing dynamic to them. You go from the dungeon entrance to the end of the dungeon doing nothing but killing mobs and bosses. Mythic+ dungeons less so, but for your normal daily dungeon you zerg. You can't do that in a Warfront, as they essentially play out like a MOBA and RTS lovechild. There are things you need to do to ensure your success, such as gather and spend resources, attack and defend points, etc.

If you don't like battlegrounds, MOBAs or RTS games then yes, they could very well become a boring grind to you. If you appreciate this type of gameplay and actively engage yourself into it, instead of mindlessly attacking everything until your group wins the Warfront for you, there is serious potential here.

Alpha is alpha, I could be wrong, but how quickly you dismiss this feature says more about you than the feature itself.

Doesn't matter how dynamic they are. Soon after they launch people will find that best way to do them and when that happens they will become a boring grind.

[-aiko-]

Now, keep in mind, they’re not “feature complete” and I also don’t have a great idea as to what’s going on.

I mean, that's kind of the problem. If you didn't actually play the Warfront, and just ran around killing enemy NPCs, then you aren't experiencing anything Warfronts have to offer. I fear that a lot of players are going to be like this. Running around attacking things instead of actually participating. D:

I don't know if Blizzard can solve this particular problem, so I don't have much faith that the community will embrace Warfronts. The potential is there though and I hope guilds/communities thrive that take them seriously.

(P.S. plz Blizz if you read my thread consider higher difficulty Warfronts and don't make this a daily LFG activity that people zerg to death)

[Pandragon]

Everything has the potential to be great. But it generally isn't. Look at pet battles. It had the potential. But the way blizzard made it, you constantly have to change your team to counter the opponent or have a bigger chance to lose, then they added legendary pets who requires a counter team, and rng to beat.

[Veldoranz]

I mean, that's kind of the problem. If you didn't actually play the Warfront, and just ran around killing enemy NPCs, then you aren't experiencing anything Warfronts have to offer. I fear that a lot of players are going to be like this. Running around attacking things instead of actually participating. D:

I don't know if Blizzard can solve this particular problem, so I don't have much faith that the community will embrace Warfronts. The potential is there though and I hope guilds/communities thrive that take them seriously.

(P.S. plz Blizz if you read my thread consider higher difficulty Warfronts and don't make this a daily LFG activity that people zerg to death)

I never said I was running around killing things randomly. What I meant by all of that was I’m not super keyed into exactly what’s going on (like almost everyone). I don’t know the in’s and out’s of the system, but I have a pretty good idea, and it leads me to believe that warfront are a bloated garrison invasion.

I think it’s cool that you like them, I just can’t bring myself to...yet.

[Erbel]

- Warfronts would be amazing for PvP but I understand why they may not happen.

Yes we all understand that Blizzard is too fucking lazy to learn from Ashran and decided they should just omit pvp from warfronts altogether.

[Dartz1979]

If you remember on final fantasy 7 they had a warfront like thing looks kinda fun.

[Raone]

I never said I was running around killing things randomly. What I meant by all of that was I’m not super keyed into exactly what’s going on (like almost everyone). I don’t know the in’s and out’s of the system, but I have a pretty good idea, and it leads me to believe that warfront are a bloated garrison invasion.

I think it’s cool that you like them, I just can’t bring myself to...yet.

If you just defend then yes, its just a bloated garrison invasion.

After finally winning one I can say you need a good offence and defence but also players gathering resources for upgrades/buildings otherwise it'll take forever. 90% of the difficulty is from the first 10 minutes, but once you got all the buildings and captured a couple locations you then start to steamroll.

[Phaelia]

If you remember on final fantasy 7 they had a warfront like thing looks kinda fun.

Omg that was my least favorite thing ever. My first play through as a teen I had no idea wtf I was doing. Missed out on the Phoenix summon because of it lol

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Doesn't matter how dynamic they are. Soon after they launch people will find that best way to do them and when that happens they will become a boring grind.

That doesn't really mean it shouldn't be in the game. Ppl will always find a way to do the most efficient way. If we decided a feature can't be in the game or be pointless just by ppl being ultra efficient.

[Rendark]

That doesn't really mean it shouldn't be in the game. Ppl will always find a way to do the most efficient way. If we decided a feature can't be in the game or be pointless just by ppl being ultra efficient.

I didn't say it shouldn't be in the game. It being the "next big thing" tho? meh.

[Echiyo]

It sounds like a much needed breath of fresh air to WoW, but I'm worried that players will quickly determine the optimal route to beating warfronts and if you deviate from that plan you are kicked or whatever. I hope Blizzard designs Warfronts so that they avoid 'optimal routing'.

[sister]

They had potential, but Blizzard just ended up making them a crappy no-risk PvE scenario that's designed to flip factions every week on reset. It's a shame really.

[Zyky]

I'd also like to see these as a premade group tool. The LFG version can stay, but I'd like to see an option for a group of friends to que together and not have the experience ruined by 30 other people rushing it or doing random things that don't help the group.

[Silverforgerer]

Sounds great tbh. If they manage to pull through (like they did with m+, not pet battles) then it might as well be the expansion highlight.