BFA Alpha Destro

[garonne]

nobody complained about it, because it wasn't top. when youre at the top a light is brightly shined on you. Damage wise, all affliction is losing is sniping shards. the damage from reap soul and artifact can be rolled back in passively.

Playstyle wise, reap soul and the other things being gone is making the spec atrociously boring.

affliction can be buffed where its still as dominant as to what it does now, but with the changes, how you do that will be the major part; its boring now.

[jackofwind]

nobody complained about it, because it wasn't top. when youre at the top a light is brightly shined on you. Damage wise, all affliction is losing is sniping shards. the damage from reap soul and artifact can be rolled back in passively.

Playstyle wise, reap soul and the other things being gone is making the spec atrociously boring.

affliction can be buffed where its still as dominant as to what it does now, but with the changes, how you do that will be the major part; its boring now.

The biggest thing that I'll miss about Affliction is chaining together mob death explosions via the Artifact, as it was the only way our snap AOE DPS became relevant. Did they roll it into the spec?

[Deimosphobos]

Got a cpl of questions...so as a few have mentioned, there is more depth with Destro if you choose...hiw is the synergy and playstyle of first and second tier choices? Does RE out DPS IC until certain haste is met? Also what's the synergy with the 90 tier? How does new GrimSup actually work? I was curious though about stat prio and how haste affects a possible talent choice (RE vs IC) or is IC good from the get go?

Sorry I'm rambling

Also what's basic DPS comparisons between talent choices? And is Cata viable ST?

[Lucrece]

The biggest thing that I'll miss about Affliction is chaining together mob death explosions via the Artifact, as it was the only way our snap AOE DPS became relevant. Did they roll it into the spec?

No. None of the artifact traits carried over.

[Baconeggcheese]

Got a cpl of questions...so as a few have mentioned, there is more depth with Destro if you choose...hiw is the synergy and playstyle of first and second tier choices? Does RE out DPS IC until certain haste is met? Also what's the synergy with the 90 tier? How does new GrimSup actually work? I was curious though about stat prio and how haste affects a possible talent choice (RE vs IC) or is IC good from the get go?

Sorry I'm rambling

Also what's basic DPS comparisons between talent choices? And is Cata viable ST?

There isn't much point in numbers questions at this stage of the game as everything is in flux and tuning hasn't happened. What's important is mechanics.

We're many months away from having proper theorycraft done at the level you're asking. People can (and some do a lil bit) do it now but there isn't much reason to as everything can be different in a build or two.

[Gaidax]

Got a cpl of questions...so as a few have mentioned, there is more depth with Destro if you choose...hiw is the synergy and playstyle of first and second tier choices? Does RE out DPS IC until certain haste is met? Also what's the synergy with the 90 tier? How does new GrimSup actually work? I was curious though about stat prio and how haste affects a possible talent choice (RE vs IC) or is IC good from the get go?

Sorry I'm rambling

Also what's basic DPS comparisons between talent choices? And is Cata viable ST?

Whoa slow down there, champ.

First of all, let’s get this out of the way - both Destruction and Demo are going to be nerfed a lot before BfA goes live because now they destroy shit bad from all my dung runs and such in Alpha, like only DH with Eye Beam legiondary comes close and maybe monks.

With this out of the way - Supremacy works as it states it does. I personally use Supremacy+Dark Soul combination in Alpha and from my experience it demolishes bosses in dungeons, simply because you can roll in a bunch of Chaos Bolts that are up to 2.5 times as powerful as usual and more into boss and that’s just too much damage, especially if you get to Havoc that. I don’t see how alternatives in that row can hold to that in dungeon.

Rest of the dungeons - being normal - are basically AoE-fest and F&B with RoF give very good sustain, but Implosion is even more opieopie. It’s basically battle of titans there of Demo vs Destruction vs DH.

As for Cata - no point using it in dungeons, F&B is simply better even in its nerfed form and ST benefit on dungeon bosses is pointless because it’s all about stacking Supremacy to high heaven and blasting boss there and Cata just does not do that much damage to matter. I’d imagine - pure ST raid boss or some freak occurrence with burst adds that die in 2 seconds - Cata would be better because well - it offers ST damage and AoE burst (albeit weak) in talent row that offers none. Basically between F&B and Cata - nothing changed from live, it’s just that Soul Harvest in that row is gone, but it does not affect balance of power between the two much, meaning F&B all the way and then Cata in pure pure pure ST.

The only wildcard there I did not test enough is Internal Combustion - Immolate damage proccing from it benefits from all Chaos Bolt bonuses it seems - it always crits and I suspect increases damage for crit rating too. If it actually works with Supremacy, then oh boy.

[Harsesis]

You wouldn't happen to be playing as an orc have you?

[Gaidax]

Yes, but if you ask about Blood Fury then no, I did not use it when it was bugged to give 40k spellpower and neither people who play with me did.

We're there to actually get idea about how shit rolls, not fuck around with GM powers on 2 min CD.

[trm90]

It looks like Eradication and Internal Combustion will be really punishing to use together? For example (Immo duration in brackets):

1) Immo a target (18s left)

2) Finish CB cast (16s left)

3) CB connects and consumes 5 secs (~10 secs left)

4) Wait 3 seconds to cast next CB to maximise Erad uptime (~7 seconds left)

5) Finish CB cast (5 secs left)

6) CB connects when Immo has <5 seconds left on it.

So the only two solutions would be to double Immo and add 7 seconds, or to cast Immo after a CB (but that depends if Immo consumption works when if Immo is up when CB is cast, not when it connects). Basically, it's difficult to maximise Eradication uptime and consume as many seconds of Immo as possible.

[Dastey]

Unless Internal Combustion is overtuned I really don't see a reason to ever pick it.

I absolutely hate the playstyle where you constantly have to reapply your dots (WoD affliction trinket) and is certainly not why I play destruction.

If they could just make it instantly deal 5 seconds of Immolate's damage without consuming the duration I would be all for it, but in the current state it just feels like absolute cancer to use. Cast 2 chaos bolts and you have to reapply immolate, which means you won't be generating soul shards since you aren't casting incinerate and unless the 5 seconds of immolate you combust generates soul shards it just feels bad and slow

[jojoushi]

Does Internal Combustion give the shard bits of the Immo ticks consumed ?

[Lucrece]

Does Internal Combustion give the shard bits of the Immo ticks consumed ?

Just tested, and the answer is no. So you're actually losing shard bits from internal combustion on top of the cost of reapplying immolate so early.

It's a trap talent.

[Aestereal]

So could Internal Combustion actually be a DPS loss vs. no talent at all? It sort of sounds like it right now.

[bio347]

Just tested, and the answer is no. So you're actually losing shard bits from internal combustion on top of the cost of reapplying immolate so early.

It's a trap talent.

The shardbit loss from Internal Combustion is one Incinerate for every ~3 Chaos Bolts you cast. Because, obviously, you're still going to maintain 100% Immolate uptime, so you don't actually lose any shardbits from the Immo DoT - you just don't gain any extras from IC. The only loss comes from the extra Immo casts in place of Incins. You also lose a little damage from that trade, because Immo does about 89% of Incin's DPET.

Just to roughly math it out, I guess, per Chaos Bolt cast with no haste: IC does 41.7%sp and loses you 6%sp and around 2/3 of a shardbit in the Immo/Incin trade, with a fractional time gain (~0.17s) because Immo is a faster cast. The partial shardbit is worth somewhere around 10%sp when considered as part of a CB.

That doesn't sound like a loss just by staring at it, but it's also not super impressive. It must've been bugged earlier or something, because it was doing ridiculous amounts of damage (like, 1/3 or more of a CB) which was pretty insane.

[Lucrece]

I'm less bothered by the numbers and more by the degenerate play it introduces. Especially with the use of havoc it meas you'll have to renew immolate twice just as quickly.

I'd rather they not give shardbits and simply make the damage bonus not consume immolate's duration.

[bio347]

That's not quitecongruous with your previous post. Is it irritating to use? Yes, absolutely. Is it a "trap" that may be lowering your damage? No, not really.

[Deimosphobos]

This is what I was getting at lol, I know it's still kinda early to theorycraft, but I was thinking this when I examined IC closely, so I assume RE will be default and SB will be for if any adds are available to snipe? Now I know it's not old school sniping for shards, but resetting the CD on death during a havoc window seems strong if there are adds present?? Also quick question to better understand haste...so if you had say a ton of haste would that make IC hit harder? Does a high haste mean immolate would fit more damage in those 5 seconds? Or am I understanding haste wrong lol

[bio347]

No, you should be right. More haste means Immolate ticks faster means that five seconds worth for IC will do more damage.

(I say "should" because I haven't personally tested it and who knows sometimes, but everything we know says that it should be correct.)

[Deimosphobos]

Yeah...i wondered that, in my original post I described a situation where RE would be default till a certain Haste number...the talent looks cool, but it could also be annoying...hopefully it will get smoothed out..tbh I'm just excited to use Shadowburn again when the fight calls for it!!!

[Gaidax]

In regards to Internal Combusion, it seems to deal way more damage than tooltip implies - it does about ~3.5 immolate ticks worth of damage in reality, that is certainly more than 5 seconds, it actually does more damage than Conflagrate.

I actually think what in reality happens is that it does 10 seconds worth of Immolate damage, but takes only 5 seconds off immolate OR it takes 5 seconds off immolate and then has some damage modifier on it OR it double dips on various damage increases like vers/mastery/eradication - one way or another. It may be a bug, but may be intended too.

I don't know why it works like that, but if that stays - it is very possible it will outdo other options there.